Lesson 4. The Bhaava (Houses).

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Post by RishiRahul » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:37 am

Namashkaar deepakoshoji,

Questions and answers are shared with registered students in this forum.

Of course, you may register too by giving a request in the 'Sign up here for Vedic Astrology Classes to start on 31st May 2007' in the 'Learn Vedic Astrology' section.

vivek and RishiRahul
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Registering for this forum

Post by deepakosho » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:27 pm

Dear gurujis,

I placed a registration request in the 'Sign up here for Vedic Astrology Classes to start on 31st May 2007' thread.

Is this the right place to request registration or is there another way? Please let me know.

Thanks,
Deepak

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Re: Special nomenclature.

Post by vivekvshetty » Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:31 pm

deepakosho wrote:
vivekvshetty wrote:
Hi RishiRahul and Vivek,

My namaste to you.

On this same note can I draw the following understanding ?

9 (father) is the past of 1 (I)
12 (sleep) is the past of 4 (happiness)
3 (initiative) is the past of 7 (desire)
6 (hardwork) is the past of 2 (money)

the only confusion here is in case of 3 and 7 (should not it be the other way, desire makes us to initiate activity)?

- Deepak
Namaskaar Deepak ji,
Without initiative how can the desire be fulfilled? 3 - 7 - 11.

How can 6th bhaava be the past of 2nd?
RishiRahul and vivek

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Re: Special nomenclature.

Post by deepakosho » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:30 pm

vivekvshetty wrote:
Namaskaar Deepak ji,
Without initiative how can the desire be fulfilled? 3 - 7 - 11.

How can 6th bhaava be the past of 2nd?
RishiRahul and vivek
Dear Vivek ji,

First of all, Please forgive me for my ignorance and mistakes. I am still at very beginner level and that is the reason I may ask why is 1 + 1 = 2 and not 11. Please forgive my ignorance.

With respect Kama Trikona,

Isn't it true that before initiating an activity we desire for it? For e.g.) I desire to start my business and then take an initiative to start business ? Isn't it true that first I desire to earn money and think about ideas and initiate that activity? In that respect why can't be 3 (intiative) a result of 7 (desire).

With respect to Arth Tikona (2,6,10)

Since 6 is house of "overcoming obstacles" we work hard and overcome obstacles before earning money (2nd house).

- Deepak

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Re: Special nomenclature.

Post by vivekvshetty » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:58 pm

Namaskaar Deepak ji,
i think you have to read the lesson again.
The Kendras are the fulcrum always.
btw we are awaiting your reply to the questions asked in the other lessons also.
Also read up a bit about the four Ayanaas or Purushaarthas.
RishiRahul and vivek
deepakosho wrote: Dear Vivek ji,

First of all, Please forgive me for my ignorance and mistakes. I am still at very beginner level and that is the reason I may ask why is 1 + 1 = 2 and not 11. Please forgive my ignorance.

With respect Kama Trikona,

Isn't it true that before initiating an activity we desire for it? For e.g.) I desire to start my business and then take an initiative to start business ? Isn't it true that first I desire to earn money and think about ideas and initiate that activity? In that respect why can't be 3 (intiative) a result of 7 (desire).

With respect to Arth Tikona (2,6,10)

Since 6 is house of "overcoming obstacles" we work hard and overcome obstacles before earning money (2nd house).

- Deepak

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Post by deepakosho » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:07 am

Dear Vivek ji,

My humble namaste to you and RishiRahul ji. As per your advice, I read about Ayanaas and Significance of Kendra.

I have summarized my understanding and also have some questions. I am requesting you to kindly help me validate and correct my mistakes.

Kendra's are Vishnu sthanas - Denotes the Efforts and focus points of life.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 - Me / Self
4 - My inner private life and Peace
7 - My Desires / My Spouse
10 - My outer Public life and Activities

Panaparas and Apokilmas denote the gain and loss of the corresponding kendras.

1 -> Self
2 -> Wealth (earned money etc) Being Panaparas Wealth, Resources, Family are all sources of security for future of the Self.

4 -> Knowledge/Education
5 -> Abilities (which is gain from Knowledge/Education)

7 -> Death
8 -> Longevity (which is gain over death)

10 -> Karma/work
11 -> Gains of Karma/work

As per Pt. SRath : Kendras is the doorstep to the world. so benefics may not guard the house well. On the other hand malefics will guard the house better.

Questions:
-----------
Question a) Will a malefic give dissatisfaction in the particular kendra bhava (and make us improve that area). Similarly, will a benefic in a particular kendra bhava give satisfaction (and make us not improve that area). Is this understanding valid?
Question b) Which type of malefic (natural or functional ) is preferred in kendras?

Konas - the 4 purusharthas
-----------------------------

Dharma trikona signifies the Rules to obey in life
1 - 5 - 9 (Lakshmi sthanas - Fruits)
Religion born into - The rituals/practices - The Religious places

Artha signifies the Purposes of life
2 - 6 - 10
Available Resources - Enemies / obstacles to overcome - Karma to be done

Kama signifies Desires of life
3 - 7 - 11
Drive/initiatives - Desire - Gain

Moksha signifies The ultimate aim of a soul
4 - 8 - 12
Fall of I - Occult Knowledge - Moksha

Questions:
-----------
A benefic placed in a kona will benefit that particular kona. For e.g.) If benefics occupy dharma trikona then the person will be more Dharmic. If benefics are placed in Moksha trikona, then the person may attain moksha (I came accross one sloka in BPHS that if a benefic is placed in 12th and a benefic aspects it then the person will get Moksha). Materially this may be bad for the person but spiritually it is good.
Question c) Is the above understanding correct?

In my personal rasi chart I have Lagna Lord Moon (a benefic because I was born in Poornima) in the 8th house in Aquarius (Poorvabhadra 3rd Pada). Jupiter is in Leo (2nd bhava) aspecting Aquarius (8th bhava). I am normally a mentally stressed person ( May be due to Moon in 8th ) but looks like jupiter's aspect on the 8th bhava is making me interested in spiritual world. Question d) Is this a valid analogy?

Upachayas (Houses of growth)
--------------------------------

3 - 6 - 10 -11
Drive/Initiatives - Overcoming enemies - One's Karma - One's Gains

These houses are good for natural malefics.

Questions:
-----------
Question e) Does malefic in 10 mean that the native will be very competitive and that causes growth for that particular house?
Question f) Does malefic in 11 mean the native will be focused mainly on gains and will be selfish and that causes growth for that house?
Question g) Will benefics in Upachaya necessarily hamper the progress?
Question d) Which type of malefic (natural or functional ) is preferred here?

Dusthanas
-----------
6 - 8 - 12
Diseases and Enemies - Reduction in Longevity - Losses

Both malefics and benefics are harmed here.

Question:
----------
Question h) I read that both malefics and benefics are harmed in dusthanas. Is this a thumb rule or are there exceptions?

Regards,
Deepak

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Post by vivekvshetty » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:13 pm

Namaskaar Deepak ji,
Why are the Kendras known as Vishnu Sthaanas?

Please explain this sentence more clearly.
Panaparas and Apokilmas denote the gain and loss of the corresponding kendras
.

with reference to what context did Pundit ji make the statement and if you can quote the source it would be wonderful.
Did he mean the lord or the occupants of Kendras?
Too many malefics (natural in kendras is not a good thing and there is Sarpa yoga formed if three or more malefics occupy kendras. This yoga is obviously not desirable in a kundali as the name of the yoga suggests.

The trikonas rukle the Purushaarthas or the Kendras?

Please reply to these points. other points raised by you can be discussed later.
RishiRahul and vivek.
deepakosho wrote:Dear Vivek ji,

My humble namaste to you and RishiRahul ji. As per your advice, I read about Ayanaas and Significance of Kendra.

I have summarized my understanding and also have some questions. I am requesting you to kindly help me validate and correct my mistakes.

Kendra's are Vishnu sthanas - Denotes the Efforts and focus points of life.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 - Me / Self
4 - My inner private life and Peace
7 - My Desires / My Spouse
10 - My outer Public life and Activities

Panaparas and Apokilmas denote the gain and loss of the corresponding kendras.

1 -> Self
2 -> Wealth (earned money etc) Being Panaparas Wealth, Resources, Family are all sources of security for future of the Self.

4 -> Knowledge/Education
5 -> Abilities (which is gain from Knowledge/Education)

7 -> Death
8 -> Longevity (which is gain over death)

10 -> Karma/work
11 -> Gains of Karma/work

As per Pt. SRath : Kendras is the doorstep to the world. so benefics may not guard the house well. On the other hand malefics will guard the house better.

Questions:
-----------
Question a) Will a malefic give dissatisfaction in the particular kendra bhava (and make us improve that area). Similarly, will a benefic in a particular kendra bhava give satisfaction (and make us not improve that area). Is this understanding valid?
Question b) Which type of malefic (natural or functional ) is preferred in kendras?

Konas - the 4 purusharthas
-----------------------------

Dharma trikona signifies the Rules to obey in life
1 - 5 - 9 (Lakshmi sthanas - Fruits)
Religion born into - The rituals/practices - The Religious places

Artha signifies the Purposes of life
2 - 6 - 10
Available Resources - Enemies / obstacles to overcome - Karma to be done

Kama signifies Desires of life
3 - 7 - 11
Drive/initiatives - Desire - Gain

Moksha signifies The ultimate aim of a soul
4 - 8 - 12
Fall of I - Occult Knowledge - Moksha

Questions:
-----------
A benefic placed in a kona will benefit that particular kona. For e.g.) If benefics occupy dharma trikona then the person will be more Dharmic. If benefics are placed in Moksha trikona, then the person may attain moksha (I came accross one sloka in BPHS that if a benefic is placed in 12th and a benefic aspects it then the person will get Moksha). Materially this may be bad for the person but spiritually it is good.
Question c) Is the above understanding correct?

In my personal rasi chart I have Lagna Lord Moon (a benefic because I was born in Poornima) in the 8th house in Aquarius (Poorvabhadra 3rd Pada). Jupiter is in Leo (2nd bhava) aspecting Aquarius (8th bhava). I am normally a mentally stressed person ( May be due to Moon in 8th ) but looks like jupiter's aspect on the 8th bhava is making me interested in spiritual world. Question d) Is this a valid analogy?

Upachayas (Houses of growth)
--------------------------------

3 - 6 - 10 -11
Drive/Initiatives - Overcoming enemies - One's Karma - One's Gains

These houses are good for natural malefics.

Questions:
-----------
Question e) Does malefic in 10 mean that the native will be very competitive and that causes growth for that particular house?
Question f) Does malefic in 11 mean the native will be focused mainly on gains and will be selfish and that causes growth for that house?
Question g) Will benefics in Upachaya necessarily hamper the progress?
Question d) Which type of malefic (natural or functional ) is preferred here?

Dusthanas
-----------
6 - 8 - 12
Diseases and Enemies - Reduction in Longevity - Losses

Both malefics and benefics are harmed here.

Question:
----------
Question h) I read that both malefics and benefics are harmed in dusthanas. Is this a thumb rule or are there exceptions?

Regards,
Deepak

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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:36 pm

Post by deepakosho » Tue May 05, 2009 3:58 pm

vivekvshetty wrote:Why are the Kendras known as Vishnu Sthaanas?
From what I read Kendras denotes efforts and Kona are results of the efforts. And here Kendra are signified as vishnu sthanas and kona as lakshmi stanas.

Vishnu denotes sustenance and hence (I think) kendras (houses of effort) are equated as Vishnu sthana.
vivekvshetty wrote:Please explain this sentence more clearly.
Panaparas and Apokilmas denote the gain and loss of the corresponding kendras
.
This statement is again from my understanding by reading your lessons and other resources (from now I will try to quote the actual links).

Both Panaparas and apoklimas have big impact on a particular kendra,

1st house
12th signifies how much good sleep a person is getting
2nd signifies what kind of food the person eats
These both have a big impact on the overall health of the person.

4th house
3rd house shows drives, determination, courage which may disturb the inner peace
5th house shows love, abilities which helps boosting the inner peace
These house have a big impact on the inner peace of the person.

7th house
6th house shows diseases which impacts maraka sthana
8th house shows longevity which impacts maraka sthana

10th house
11th house shows gains which is gain from karma
9th house is the house of dharma which will constantly check if you are following the right dharma in Karma. Any affliction to Dharma may make you Adharmic in karma.
with reference to what context did Pundit ji make the statement and if you can quote the source it would be wonderful. Did he mean the lord or the occupants of Kendras?
He meant the kendra lords. This is the expert from the document.
Now the word ‘Kendra-adipati’ clearly means ‘lordship of quadrant house’ which are defined as 10th, 7th, 4th and 1st in that order of strengths. The four kendra are the four doors of the horoscope through whch good and bad comes into the natives life. The lords of the Kendra are responsible to guard the doors and allow people to enter and exit. This is easily understood from the ‘bhupura’ of any chakra where the four doors are in the kendra/quadrants.

Now if you want to have a guard for the door, what would be the attributes that you will select? A good Pandit who is well versed in the vedas (Jup) or a black belt in Karate (Mars)? Naturally the Pandit will make a mess of things if he is asked to guard the door. He will fail to be strict due to his innate goodness and all sorts of riff-raff will enter into that area of his life thereby exploiting and damaging his life. A malefic planet will be harsh (Mars) strict (Saturn) or suspicious (Rahu) or very fiery (Sun) and will guard the door of his life with superb ability.
vivekvshetty wrote:The trikonas rukle the Purushaarthas or the Kendras?
The konas rule the purusarthas

1-5-9 rules dharma
2-6-10 rules artha
3-7-11 rules kama
4-8-12 rule Moksha


Om Tat Sat.
Deepak

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Question on Parivarthan

Post by deepakosho » Tue May 05, 2009 4:15 pm

I have a question on Parivarthan,

Does Parivarthan works for Rahu and Ketu too?

For e.g.) Lets say for cancer lagna Rahu is in the 1st house and Moon in 8th house. Generally they say Moon in 8th is a bad placement, in this case its even more bad because Moon is the lagna lord.
But is Parivarthan a saving grace in this case? There by Rahu will act like moon in lagna and moon will act like rahu in 8th (rahu's own house)?

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak

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Post by vivekvshetty » Wed May 06, 2009 3:48 pm

Namaskaar Deepak ji,
our reply below.
deepakosho wrote:
vivekvshetty wrote:Why are the Kendras known as Vishnu Sthaanas?
From what I read Kendras denotes efforts and Kona are results of the efforts. And here Kendra are signified as vishnu sthanas and kona as lakshmi stanas.

Vishnu denotes sustenance and hence (I think) kendras (houses of effort) are equated as Vishnu sthana.
The kendras are the pillars on which the whole Horoscope is sustained,
vivekvshetty wrote:Please explain this sentence more clearly.
Panaparas and Apokilmas denote the gain and loss of the corresponding kendras
.
This statement is again from my understanding by reading your lessons and other resources (from now I will try to quote the actual links).

Both Panaparas and apoklimas have big impact on a particular kendra,

1st house
12th signifies how much good sleep a person is getting
2nd signifies what kind of food the person eats
These both have a big impact on the overall health of the person.

4th house
3rd house shows drives, determination, courage which may disturb the inner peace
5th house shows love, abilities which helps boosting the inner peace
These house have a big impact on the inner peace of the person.

7th house
6th house shows diseases which impacts maraka sthana
8th house shows longevity which impacts maraka sthana
we do not quiet agree with this. The primary house of disease is the eighth.
10th house
11th house shows gains which is gain from karma
9th house is the house of dharma which will constantly check if you are following the right dharma in Karma. Any affliction to Dharma may make you Adharmic in karma.
with reference to what context did Pundit ji make the statement and if you can quote the source it would be wonderful. Did he mean the lord or the occupants of Kendras?
He meant the kendra lords. This is the expert from the document.
Now the word ‘Kendra-adipati’ clearly means ‘lordship of quadrant house’ which are defined as 10th, 7th, 4th and 1st in that order of strengths. The four kendra are the four doors of the horoscope through whch good and bad comes into the natives life. The lords of the Kendra are responsible to guard the doors and allow people to enter and exit. This is easily understood from the ‘bhupura’ of any chakra where the four doors are in the kendra/quadrants.

Now if you want to have a guard for the door, what would be the attributes that you will select? A good Pandit who is well versed in the vedas (Jup) or a black belt in Karate (Mars)? Naturally the Pandit will make a mess of things if he is asked to guard the door. He will fail to be strict due to his innate goodness and all sorts of riff-raff will enter into that area of his life thereby exploiting and damaging his life. A malefic planet will be harsh (Mars) strict (Saturn) or suspicious (Rahu) or very fiery (Sun) and will guard the door of his life with superb ability.
That clears a lot of things.
vivekvshetty wrote:The trikonas rukle the Purushaarthas or the Kendras?
The konas rule the purusarthas

1-5-9 rules dharma
2-6-10 rules artha
3-7-11 rules kama
4-8-12 rule Moksha

The Kendras rule the Purushaarthas and each kendra is supported by its respective Trikonas.


Om Tat Sat.
Deepak
RishiRahul and vivek.

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Re: Question on Parivarthan

Post by vivekvshetty » Wed May 06, 2009 3:55 pm

Namaskaar Deepak ji,
Yes it will work if Raahu or Ketu become the primary owners of their respective Raashis.
There are many theories regarding Parivartan and this will form a full post in itself. remember parivartan is Poorna Sambandha and the grahas in Parivartan will give each others results in their respective Dashaas. It also means a reversal of results.
Initial good followed by bad or vice versa.
Rishirahul and vivek.
deepakosho wrote:I have a question on Parivarthan,

Does Parivarthan works for Rahu and Ketu too?

For e.g.) Lets say for cancer lagna Rahu is in the 1st house and Moon in 8th house. Generally they say Moon in 8th is a bad placement, in this case its even more bad because Moon is the lagna lord.
But is Parivarthan a saving grace in this case? There by Rahu will act like moon in lagna and moon will act like rahu in 8th (rahu's own house)?

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak

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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:36 pm

Post by deepakosho » Wed May 06, 2009 7:44 pm

vivekvshetty wrote:The Kendras rule the Purushaarthas and each kendra is supported by its respective Trikonas.
Thanks for clarification. I will register this point in my mind.
vivekvshetty wrote:we do not quiet agree with this. The primary house of disease is the eighth.
Thanks for bringing this point, perhaps I am getting confused because I have some doubts.

1) Enemies - 6th bhaava is refered for enemies. 8th is also refered for enemies
2) Diseases - 6th bhaava is refered for diseases. 8th is also refered  for disease

I tried to do some research.

BPHS translations for 6th and 8th house. (source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240397/Bhaava)

6th House
mātulāntakaśankānām śatrūmścaiva vranādikān
sapatnīmātaram cāpi shashthabhāvānnirīkshayet

mātula- maternal uncle; antaka- end/ death; śankānām- doubts and mistust; śatrūm-enemies;caiva- and also; vrana- injuries/ ulcer/ tumor; adikān- etc.; sapatnīmātaramstep-mother; cāpi - and also; shashthabhāvānnirīkshayet - judge from sixth bhava.
The 6th house indicates maternal uncle, doubts about death, enemies, ulcers, step mother,punishment etc.

Eighth House
आयु रणं िरपुं चािप दगु ण मतृ धनं तथा।
गतयनुकािदकं सवण पशयेदिधाििचकणः॥ ९॥
āyu ranam ripum cāpi durgam mrtadhanam tathā
gatyanukādikam sarvam paśyedrandhrādvicakshanah

āyu- age/ longevity; ranam - battles and wars; ripum - weaknesses; cāpi - and also; durgam - difficult situation; mrtadhanam - wealth of the dead/ legacy/ inheritence; tathā - and gatyanukādikam - things that have happenes; sarvam -everything; paśyed- see;randhrāt- randhra bhava/ 8th house; vicakshanah- observe from/ experience from, beingconscious of
Enemies
---------

Parashara talks about enemies for both 6th and 8th houses. what is the difference?

6th house shows enemies and 8th house shows battles and wars

6th is 11th from 8th --> Shows gains from battles which is enemy
8th is 3rd from 6th --> Upachaya for 6th. So battles/wars increases our enemies.

Diseases
---------

Parashara says from 6th houses see "vranādikān". vrana means blisters, wound from arrow etc (reference: http://vedabase.net/v/vrana)

It makes sense that blisters, scars, etc are what we gain from battles/wars/Fight etc. (also 6th is 11th from 8th)

My question.
Here does Parashara talks only about scars when he says "vranādikān"??? Doesn't he mean disease???

Please guide me to better understanding.

Om Tat Sat.

Deepak

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Post by vivekvshetty » Fri May 08, 2009 3:43 pm

namaskaar Deepak ji,
Did you notice that you were using the Argala and Virodhargala concept here?
RisjiRahul and vivek.
deepakosho wrote:
Both Panaparas and apoklimas have big impact on a particular kendra,

1st house
12th signifies how much good sleep a person is getting
2nd signifies what kind of food the person eats
These both have a big impact on the overall health of the person.

4th house
3rd house shows drives, determination, courage which may disturb the inner peace
5th house shows love, abilities which helps boosting the inner peace
These house have a big impact on the inner peace of the person.

7th house
6th house shows diseases which impacts maraka sthana
8th house shows longevity which impacts maraka sthana

10th house
11th house shows gains which is gain from karma
9th house is the house of dharma which will constantly check if you are following the right dharma in Karma. Any affliction to Dharma may make you Adharmic in karma.

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak

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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:36 pm

Post by deepakosho » Fri May 15, 2009 8:18 pm

Vivek ji,

Yeah I was using Argala and Virodhargala concept and I didn't even realize I was using it (untill you pointed it out). Thanks.

- Deepak
vivekvshetty wrote: Did you notice that you were using the Argala and Virodhargala concept here?

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Post by gaonkarswapnil » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:05 am

Dear Vivek ji

Please clear my doubt as i was going thru lessons on 9th and 10th house and cross reading our learning section i found that in Visti ji and rath ji books mentioning 9th house signifying father and you mentioning 10th signify father also BPHS article from scribd signify karma bhava for father

i would like to know which should be considered for our learning

Regards

Swapnil
Swapnil from mumbai looking for future

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