Lesson 10- Benefics and Malefics (Functional and Natural)

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A thumb rule.

Post by vivekvshetty » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:01 pm

Namaskaar All learners,
The following sentence was given as a thumb rule to find out what result a Graha will give when it is a Natural benefic but a functional malefic or vice versa.
To see which of the two result will dominate apply this dictum - if the Graha is strong then the Beneficial result will dominate otherwise the malefic effect will be felt more.
What this means is that if a Graha which is a natural benefic but a functional malefic, is strong then it will give Beneficial results due to its nature as a natural benefic. If it is weak it will give malefic results due it being a functional malefic.
Same way if it is a natural malefic but a functional benefic and is weak then it will give Malefic results due to its nature as a natural malefic. If it is strong then it will give Benefic results due to ite nature as a functional benefic.
RishiRahul and vivek.

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Post by RishiRahul » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:33 pm

Thank you rishirahul ji and Vivek ji for replying.

Now if jup is not in its own house or friendly house and is in lagna for capricon lagna thus is deb. In this case jup should be more related to 3rd and 12 house's malefic effects..

The native with capricor lagna and jup in lagan i.e. deb jup.Since jup is in 11th house from 3rd house(which also happens to be an upachaya sthan) and is deb. thus native should have to work harder and get less gain out of it.Will also loose money or have loss coz of his brother esp younger if any but there z also posibility that native wont be having a younger brother..

vivek and Rishiahul=The native should work harder, but gets less QUALITATIVE gain out of it......Yes.
Thee lose money part is qualitative; which means in terms of the effort given due to hard work, even if he earns a lot, he feels the losing out/expense is more.
About the younger brother it could be or may not be.... extending too much imagination here.

Also jup is i 2nd house from 12th house thus peson will less accumalatin of money and may also loose money from foreign dealing.He shudnt be geting a good night sleep and wont feel good when he is at home,thus we can say he wont be getting a good night sleep when being at home...In both lordship we see that placement of jup in lagna gets  some how(directly or indirectly) related to money..
1.lagna is 11th house(labha sthan) from 3rd house
2.lagna is 2nd house(house of accumalated wealth and family) from 12th house.

vivek and Rishiahul=Expenses would be higher, but due to good causes. if Jupiter is not afflicted.
12th. lord shows expenses and the nature, position and aspects to it determine the causes.
Regarding foreign dealings could be extending imagination too much.
Good nights sleep being affected by this is not reasonable... or you could state why you think so?

Thus for sure he wil have money lose coz of this combination.

Please let me know how far this can be right. :-)

Regards,
Raman[/quote]


vivek and Rishiahul=Again all these plus and minuses become simpler due to the thumb rule.



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Accurate timings & solutions to specific questions

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Re: I am sorry but you did not answer my question

Post by deepakosho » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:40 pm

Dear Vivekji and Rishiji,

You had asked what happens if Mars for kark lagna goes to 7th. I would like to list my understanding. Please validate them for me.

Areas affected - 5, 7 and 10

1) Exalted Poorva Punyathipathi means the native has very good past karma

2) The native will be interested in business rather than working under someone (Ofcourse other factors like sun's, Mercury's placement also important, Also D-10 is will tell more about his career than Rasi chart).

3) Yogakaraka and 10th lord in 7th means the native's business will flourish.

4) The person is very duty minded (10th lord is 10th from 10th - Bhavatbhavam)

5) Children will join native's business (because 5th lord comes to 7th). And they will be very happy assisting the native's karma (5th lord exalted)

6) Communcation with outer world is aggressive, direct, blunt and straight forward (Ofcourse the influence of 2rd and 3rd lord is also important)

7) Aggressive with life partner and business partners

8) Mars will try to supress materialistic desires like sexual desire (Ofcourse Jupiter's and Venus's influence will also impact desire for chidren and sex)

9) Mars will give spiritual desires (Mars is a celebate and great bhaktha of lord shiva)
vivekvshetty wrote:Tenth lord in the 7th and exalted means rise a bit late, but with the help of business partners and subordinates.
How does 10th lord in 7 means late rise? So where will the 10th lord promote early rise?
vivekvshetty wrote:Usually a connection between the fifth and the seventh does not favor an arranged marriage.
why so?

One Last Big question.

Am I on the right track? Or am i getting confused with lot of imagination? At this stage I am building my foundation and seeking approval from learned people like you. If I get a green signal it will give me encouragement; otherwise it will atleast give me oppurtunity to improve. So please reply and give me a direction.

Om Tat Sat
Deepak

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Post by mysbcrs » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:53 pm

Vivekji/Rishiji,


Sorry to add to your burden of questions.

Though many examples have been cited, since most used wonership of dusthanas that have negative siginifications,  I am still not clear how (if at all) the malefic nature of 3rd/11th lords manifest in respect of these bhavas. For e.g, for Libra ascendant Guru owns 3rd and 5th. BPHS classifies it as malefic.

From the examples cited, I understand that it will negatively affect the bhavas it is in and aspects.

But what about significtions of 3rd house (enterprise, spiritual initiation, communication, support from younger siblings..)? If as owner Guru does not promote this, are these significations "orphaned"?

In respect of Virshabh lagan there is another tricky (to me!) issue. Guru is lord of 8th and 11th. Since Guru is also karaka for 11th, does he promote the affairs of 11th (gains) or does he make it suffer?

CRS
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Post by vivekvshetty » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:17 pm

Namaskaar CRS ji,
Replies below in Green.
mysbcrs wrote:Vivekji/Rishiji,
Sorry to add to your burden of questions.

Though many examples have been cited, since most used wonership of dusthanas that have negative siginifications,  I am still not clear how (if at all) the malefic nature of 3rd/11th lords manifest in respect of these bhavas. For e.g, for Libra ascendant Guru owns 3rd and 5th. BPHS classifies it as malefic.
correction- Guru is the lord of the 3rd and 6th Bhaavas.

From the examples cited, I understand that it will negatively affect the bhavas it is in and aspects.

But what about significtions of 3rd house (enterprise, spiritual initiation, communication, support from younger siblings..)? If as owner Guru does not promote this, are these significations "orphaned"?

In respect of Virshabh lagan there is another tricky (to me!) issue. Guru is lord of 8th and 11th. Since Guru is also karaka for 11th, does he promote the affairs of 11th (gains) or does he make it suffer?
The lord of a Bhaava always protects or promotes or tries to promote/protect it.

CRS
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Post by mysbcrs » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:45 am

Thanks Vivekji,
The lord of a Bhaava always protects or promotes or tries to promote/protect it.
The description of Vimshottari dasha results of 3rd ("..unfavourable effects in the Dasha of the Lord of Sahaj..)/11th lord ("...obstacles in gains of wealth and the possibility of diseases in the Dasha of the Lord of Labh..") in BPHS appears to indicate a bad period. Specially the description on 11th gives rise to a doubt whether the bhava is supported by its lord at all.

Though this lesson is not on timing/dasha, I thought of getting this clarified, since I think the above results are based on the tenet that 3/11 lords are malefic.

Also, will be grateful if you respond to my other question - Does a graha always promote its role as karaka? For e.g, Ve as a natural benefic always (assuming it is not otherwise afflicted) do good in respect of Marriage/sex/vehicles even when it is a functional malefic (Leo lagna)?

Similalrly does Sa always cause separation/delay/suffering (assuming there are no strong benefic influeneces on it) when it is functional benefic (Vrishabh/Tula lagna)?

CRS
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Post by vivekvshetty » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:46 pm

Namaskaar CRS ji,
Our Comments below.
mysbcrs wrote:Thanks Vivekji,
The description of Vimshottari dasha results of 3rd ("..unfavourable effects in the Dasha of the Lord of Sahaj..)/11th lord ("...obstacles in gains of wealth and the possibility of diseases in the Dasha of the Lord of Labh..") in BPHS appears to indicate a bad period. Specially the description on 11th gives rise to a doubt whether the bhava is supported by its lord at all.

Though this lesson is not on timing/dasha, I thought of getting this clarified, since I think the above results are based on the tenet that 3/11 lords are malefic.
we would not like to discuss this now.

Also, will be grateful if you respond to my other question - Does a graha always promote its role as karaka? For e.g, Ve as a natural benefic always (assuming it is not otherwise afflicted) do good in respect of Marriage/sex/vehicles even when it is a functional malefic (Leo lagna)?
Naisargika Kaaraka is the overlord of the Bhaava for which it is the Kaaraka. It is its responsibility to manifest the thing it is signifying. Like - it is the responsibility of Shukra to bring the spouse into the Natives life, irrespective of any Lagna.

Similalrly does Sa always cause separation/delay/suffering (assuming there are no strong benefic influeneces on it) when it is functional benefic (Vrishabh/Tula lagna)?
The things listed by you are the traits of Shani and is not the Naisargika kaarakatwa of it.
Shani is a Yoga kaaraka (potential to cause Raajayoga) and functional benefic because it owns good Bhaavas from Raashis owned by Shukra.
This means that from the perspective of people born in these two Lagnas Shani owns desirable Bhaavas.
in fact Shani in Tirka (6,8,12) bhaavas for people born in Shukra's lagna is said to give Great Vipareeta Raaja yoga).


CRS
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Post by mysbcrs » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:36 pm

Dhanyavaad Vivekji,

I have a few more doubts. Hope you dont mind and bear with me if I sound very confused.
This means that from the perspective of people born in these two Lagnas Shani owns desirable Bhaavas.
in fact Shani in Tirka (6,8,12) bhaavas for people born in Shukra's lagna is said to give Great Vipareeta Raaja yoga).
That means, Shani's yogakaraka nature arises from owning good bhavas and not by suppression of its other malefic roles (planetary nature and karakatwa). In other words the overall effect of any planet is planetary nature+karakatwa+bhava ownership and all these will show up independently.

As for Vipareeta Rajayoga, I was under the impression that it results from 6/8/12 lords being placed in 6/8/12. In case of Vrishabh/Tula Shani does not own any of these. Is it because being karaka for 8/12, its presence in 8/12 destroys the malefic significance? This will not be true in respect of 6th for which karaka is Ma.


CRS[/quote]
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Post by vivekvshetty » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:45 pm

Namaskaar CRS ji,
Our comments below.
mysbcrs wrote:Dhanyavaad Vivekji,

I have a few more doubts. Hope you dont mind and bear with me if I sound very confused.
This means that from the perspective of people born in these two Lagnas Shani owns desirable Bhaavas.
in fact Shani in Tirka (6,8,12) bhaavas for people born in Shukra's lagna is said to give Great Vipareeta Raaja yoga).
That means, Shani's yogakaraka nature arises from owning good bhavas and not by suppression of its other malefic roles (planetary nature and karakatwa). In other words the overall effect of any planet is planetary nature+karakatwa+bhava ownership and all these will show up independently.
They do show up independently and some times there are linkages too. life is a complex thing and jyotish tries to break it down into understandable components. If your basics of the meaning of each components is good  then reading a chart is easier or else it is a labyrinth out there.

As for Vipareeta Rajayoga, I was under the impression that it results from 6/8/12 lords being placed in 6/8/12. In case of Vrishabh/Tula Shani does not own any of these. Is it because being karaka for 8/12, its presence in 8/12 destroys the malefic significance? This will not be true in respect of 6th for which karaka is Ma.
Yes it is because Shani is the kaaraka for these houses. Shani is the kaaraka for service, servants and Shadripu (collectively) and these are seen from the sixth Bhaava.

CRS
[/quote]

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Post by mysbcrs » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:59 pm

Dhanyavaad Vivekji,
Yes it is because Shani is the kaaraka for these houses. Shani is the kaaraka for service, servants and Shadripu (collectively) and these are seen from the sixth Bhaava.


Since the kaarakatwa is the same for all lagna, why only for Vrishabh/Tula it is vipareeta raja yoga? For these two lagnas out of 6/8/12 only one will be owned by shukra while the other two are by Guru and Mangal.

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Post by vivekvshetty » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:50 pm

Namaskaar CRS ji,
We think it is because a Yoga kaaraka's (a functional benefic) placement in the bad Bhaavas is bad.
Shani is the natural kaaraka for these Bhaavas and its placement in one of them gives the Vipareeta result.
The Bad is reversed to good.
RishiRahul and vivek.

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Post by mysbcrs » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:02 am

Dhanyavaad Vivekji,
We think it is because a Yoga kaaraka's (a functional benefic) placement in the bad Bhaavas is bad.
Shani is the natural kaaraka for these Bhaavas and its placement in one of them gives the Vipareeta result.
The Bad is reversed to good.
Does this mean that for a Kumbha,Mithuna or Kanya lagna placement of shani in 6/8/12 is very auspicious? In these cases Shani owns a trine and placement in 6/8/12 meets the "dusthana lord in dusthana" criteria apart from "karaka in the house of karakatwa destroying malefic significance" criteria.

CRS

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Tell us.

Post by vivekvshetty » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:21 pm

Namaskaar CRS ji,
Tell us what you think.
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Post by mysbcrs » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:36 pm

Namaskaar Vivekji,

Since I have no exposure to practical analysis of charts, I will have to answer this based on whatever I have read (which is not much) and whatever I have understood (which is of-course even lesser :) ). Hope you will correct me.

I feel placement of Shani in dusthana in general can also lead to some good results (containment of bad effects), though the evil effects are not fully nullfied.

As for kaaraka destroying the significance of house if placed there, I keep reading affirmations and exceptions. I again get a mixed feel (not all effects are destroyed...).

As for comparison between placement of Shani in 6/8/12 in Vrishabh/Tula as against Kumbh/Mithuna/Kanya, I feel it should prove more auspicious for the latter since in the former case, as a single handed yogakaaraka it gets locked up in dusthana and in addition does not own any dusthana.


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Post by vivekvshetty » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:27 pm

Namaskaar CRS ji,
You seem to have missed the word 'Vipareeta" in our reply.
RishiRahul and vivek.
mysbcrs wrote:Namaskaar Vivekji,

Since I have no exposure to practical analysis of charts, I will have to answer this based on whatever I have read (which is not much) and whatever I have understood (which is of-course even lesser :) ). Hope you will correct me.

I feel placement of Shani in dusthana in general can also lead to some good results (containment of bad effects), though the evil effects are not fully nullfied.

As for kaaraka destroying the significance of house if placed there, I keep reading affirmations and exceptions. I again get a mixed feel (not all effects are destroyed...).

As for comparison between placement of Shani in 6/8/12 in Vrishabh/Tula as against Kumbh/Mithuna/Kanya, I feel it should prove more auspicious for the latter since in the former case, as a single handed yogakaaraka it gets locked up in dusthana and in addition does not own any dusthana.


CRS

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