Lesson 11. Sambandha

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Post by vivekvshetty » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:19 pm

Raman Deep Singh wrote:Dear Vivek and Rahul ji,
As i said before i couldnt understand 6-8 relationship mentioned by you.
What i cudnt understand is:-
1.First you say :-"Two Grahas placed 6th/8th (Shadhaasthaka) from each other show a complete mismatch between the two. They will act inimical to each other "

This means that this is not a good combination in terms of relationship between planets.For example :- Can we consider that 6-8 relationship between a karaka of a house and lord of a house is not something good.


2.Then you said "This Sambandha shows the mutual working for each other or the level of co-operation between two Grahas. It does not show support or the friendship or enmity amongst them"

Now what does this means. This means that this relationship is almost like neutral coz neither it is friendly nor inimical(coz they dont enmity among them) but at the same time they r supportive to each other and co-operayte with each other. I actually cudnt understand the second part of your 6-8 relationship.
Please explain.

Raman
Namaskaar Raman ji,
1. What we meant and maybe were not able to put through was that the two Grahas in Shadashthak dont want to coperate with each other. When one wants to initiate some thing the other will not want it to happen and vice- versa.
As for the relation between the Kaaraka of a Bhaava and the lord of the Bhaava is concerned it may be the case (it is not a good sambandha). But more important is the relationship of the Bhaava and its kaaraka. Which means as to how the Kaaraka is placed w.r.t the bhaava.

2. Here 'Frienship and enmity' means the Natural and temporal frienship / enmity between Grahas. Actually the subject matter of the next lesson.

RishiRahul and vivek

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Sambandha between Bhaavesha, Bhaava and Kaaraka.

Post by vivekvshetty » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:34 pm

Namaskaar Raman ji,
In the previous post i may add a few things from the writings of a SJC Guru, Zoran ji in his blog.

"BHAAVA , BHAAVA LORD (BHAAVESHA) AND KAARAKA

Know the difference among bhava, bhaava lord and kaaraka. These three factors are essential to understand the nature and auspiciousness of a bhaava. For example, if Lagna lord is in Kendra or kona, then our brain functions well, and we easily make good decisions. This does not necessarily mean that a person is lucky. There is an other factor called “luck “ factor known as a Kaaraka.  


1.       Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from the Bhaava to see the resources of a Bhaava itself

2.       Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from Lagna to see whether a person will experience the resources of a Bhaava.

If a bhaava lord is well placed from the bhaava itself, then we can well use intelligence RELATED to that bhaava, our decisions are good. If a bhaava lord is well placed from Lagna, then such decisions are good for us, whatever the resources of a bhaava are. For example,  Take Mithuna Lagna and Budha in 4th house.From the 4th bhava it is well placed as a lord, so our decisions related to home, property, place where we live are good. We will choose a nice house, at a right time and money. However, whether such a house will be good for us, make us happy and prosperous, is seen from the position of the 4th lord from Lagna. In  this case , it is both, so good.

Kaaraka is the final authority of a bhaava. We may apply our intelligence very well, yet the luck may never come.

So there are two factors:

1.       Relationship of bhaava and a kaaraka

2.       Relationship of a bhaava lord and kaaraka

If a bhaava lord and kaaraka are in good relationship, we will make such decisions which will be supported by God, and our attitude is very good. It is the sign of a good karma related to that area of life. In opposite case it is akin to a curse."

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Post by Raman Deep Singh » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:37 pm

Dear vivek and Rahul ji,
Thank you for explaning and replying to my query.I did understand that 6-8 relationship shows planets not being supportive to each other rather tryin to work against other,as u said
"When one wants to initiate some thing the other will not want it to happen and vice- versa"
Thus they dont want others task to get complete. For example :- any one of
karaka/bhaava/bhaava lord may want native get married but 6-8 relationship of this with other factors karaka/bhaava/bhaava lord may try to stop get it happen then doesnt mean that they r like enmical to each other coz though not just they r NOT  supporting each but also they r trying to stop others task getting done.


Please explain.

Regards,
Raman

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Post by vivekvshetty » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:03 pm

Raman Deep Singh wrote:Dear vivek and Rahul ji,
Thank you for explaning and replying to my query.I did understand that 6-8 relationship shows planets not being supportive to each other rather tryin to work against other,as u said
"When one wants to initiate some thing the other will not want it to happen and vice- versa"
Thus they dont want others task to get complete. For example :- any one of
karaka/bhaava/bhaava lord may want native get married but 6-8 relationship of this with other factors karaka/bhaava/bhaava lord may try to stop get it happen then doesnt mean that they r like enmical to each other coz though not just they r NOT  supporting each but also they r trying to stop others task getting done.


Please explain.

Regards,
Raman
Namaskaar Raman ji,
They may be called inimical only because of the placement from each others. This mutual placement (say for example Shadaashthaka) in the chart is te reason for the wrong timing between the two, otherwise they may be friends (natural, temporal or combined).
The above friendship and enimities is another matter altoghether. We did not want to confuse the two and hence the sentence in the lesson, which was quoted by you asking for clarifications.

The sentences qouted by you
"Two Grahas placed 6th/8th (Shadhaasthaka) from each other show a complete mismatch between the two. They will act inimical to each other "

"This Sambandha shows the mutual working for each other or the level of co-operation between two Grahas. It does not show support or the friendship or enmity amongst them"

The two sentences does appear contradictory, but we hope we have clarified to your satisfaction.

RishiRahul and vivek

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Post by deepakosho » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:26 pm

Namaste Vivek ji / Rahul ji,

Can the following be valid?

E.g.1) if a person with taurus lagna has venus in 8th and jupiter is placed in 12th aries, this will reduce the longevity. (here Jupiter's dhirsti on lagna lord will come as little saviour)

E.g.2) if a person with capricorn lagna has saturn in 12th and its lord jupiter in 8th leo, this will increase his losses and wont get good sleep. (here again Jupiter's dhirsti on lagna lord will come as little saviour)

E.g.3) if a person with scorpio lagna has mars in 8th Gemini and mercury is placed in 6th aries, the person faces lot of obstacles.

E.g.4) if a person with aquarius lagna has saturn placed in gemini and mercury is placed in karka then the persons children become his enemy. On the positive side, the 8th lord mercury going to 6th means he has no obstacles.

Is my understanding on the right track?

Om Tat Sat
Deepak

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Post by vivekvshetty » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:56 pm

Namaskaar Deepak ji,
Apply these principles and see.
1. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from the Bhaava to see the resources of a Bhaava itself

2. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from Lagna to see whether a person will experience the resources of a Bhaava.

If a bhaava lord is well placed from the bhaava itself, then we can well use intelligence RELATED to that bhaava, our decisions are good. If a bhaava lord is well placed from Lagna, then such decisions are good for us, whatever the resources of a bhaava are.
You are on the right track but a long way to go.
Rishirahul and vivek.
deepakosho wrote:Namaste Vivek ji / Rahul ji,

Can the following be valid?

E.g.1) if a person with taurus lagna has venus in 8th and jupiter is placed in 12th aries, this will reduce the longevity. (here Jupiter's dhirsti on lagna lord will come as little saviour)

E.g.2) if a person with capricorn lagna has saturn in 12th and its lord jupiter in 8th leo, this will increase his losses and wont get good sleep. (here again Jupiter's dhirsti on lagna lord will come as little saviour)

E.g.3) if a person with scorpio lagna has mars in 8th Gemini and mercury is placed in 6th aries, the person faces lot of obstacles.

E.g.4) if a person with aquarius lagna has saturn placed in gemini and mercury is placed in karka then the persons children become his enemy. On the positive side, the 8th lord mercury going to 6th means he has no obstacles.

Is my understanding on the right track?

Om Tat Sat
Deepak

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Post by deepakosho » Tue May 05, 2009 3:09 pm

vivekvshetty wrote:Namaskaar Deepak ji,
Apply these principles and see.
1. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from the Bhaava to see the resources of a Bhaava itself
2. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from Lagna to see whether a person will experience the resources of a Bhaava.
Based on the above principle, is the following understanding valid?.....

For Pisces Lagna if Mercury is in 8th bhaava then,
The person has a good spouse (7th lord in second from 7th house, which is the house of resources)
But the person does not experience a good married life (7th lord in eighth from lagna).

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak

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Post by vivekvshetty » Tue May 05, 2009 4:19 pm

Namaskaar Deepak ji,
First of all Seventh in D-1 is not the spouse but the idea or a better word would be the concept of marriage that the native has. You see each one of us has our own take about the institution of marriage, this is what the seventh bhaava (we cannot stress enough on the word bhaava, Bhaavanaa) shows.
Eight is the maaraka (terminator if we may use the word) of the seventh so what resourses are we talking about?
The Paaka of the seventh is the eight, so how is the intelligence working as regards to partnerships of all forms?
Eight from lagna shows what? Debts, illhealth etc. So what is the experience of the Native as regards the Seventh lord?
What is the meaning of Lagna?
RishiRahul and vivek.
deepakosho wrote:
vivekvshetty wrote:Namaskaar Deepak ji,
Apply these principles and see.
1. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from the Bhaava to see the resources of a Bhaava itself
2. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from Lagna to see whether a person will experience the resources of a Bhaava.
Based on the above principle, is the following understanding valid?.....

For Pisces Lagna if Mercury is in 8th bhaava then,
The person has a good spouse (7th lord in second from 7th house, which is the house of resources)
But the person does not experience a good married life (7th lord in eighth from lagna).

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak

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Post by deepakosho » Tue May 05, 2009 5:20 pm

I think I picked a wrong example considering spouse for 7th house. While actually 7th house shows the attitude towards one's marriage. Sorry for the confusion.
vivekvshetty wrote:Eight is the maaraka (terminator if we may use the word) of the seventh so what resourses are we talking about?
The Paaka of the seventh is the eight, so how is the intelligence working as regards to partnerships of all forms? Eight from lagna shows what? Debts, illhealth etc. So what is the experience of the Native as regards the Seventh lord?
If 7th lord goes to 8th (in D1) it is very bad, because Maaraka lord goes to house of Disease. So 7th lord will give disease to the native. Here 7th lord gives resources to the 7th house (in the form of disease).

I am trying to co-relate Bhavat-bhavam (2nd is the house of resource) and the general priciple you mentioned "1. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from the Bhaava to see the resources of a Bhaava itself. 2. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from Lagna to see whether a person will experience the resources of a Bhaava."
vivekvshetty wrote: What is the meaning of Lagna?
As per what I have understood,

Lagna means Body, Self, true nature of self, Beginning.
- In D1 its the native's true nature of physical body (appearance, attitude etc).
- In D10 its the native's true nature at work
- In D7 its the native's true nature with children

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak

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Post by vivekvshetty » Wed May 06, 2009 1:56 am

Namaskaar Deepak ji,
Our comments below in green.
deepakosho wrote:I think I picked a wrong example considering spouse for 7th house. While actually 7th house shows the attitude towards one's marriage. Sorry for the confusion.
vivekvshetty wrote:Eight is the maaraka (terminator if we may use the word) of the seventh so what resourses are we talking about?
The Paaka of the seventh is the eight, so how is the intelligence working as regards to partnerships of all forms? Eight from lagna shows what? Debts, illhealth etc. So what is the experience of the Native as regards the Seventh lord?
If 7th lord goes to 8th (in D1) it is very bad, because Maaraka lord goes to house of Disease. So 7th lord will give disease to the native. Here 7th lord gives resources to the 7th house (in the form of disease).

Deepak ji, you got it wrong. we are looking from the perspective of the seventh Bhaava and for the seventh bhaava the eighth (being the second from seventh) is Maaraka for the seventh.

I am trying to co-relate Bhavat-bhavam (2nd is the house of resource) and the general priciple you mentioned "1. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from the Bhaava to see the resources of a Bhaava itself. 2. Examine the Bhaava lord as counted from Lagna to see whether a person will experience the resources of a Bhaava."
What does bhaavat bhaavam mean?
vivekvshetty wrote: What is the meaning of Lagna?
As per what I have understood,

Lagna means Body, Self, true nature of self, Beginning.
This is very close to what we are hinting at. Can you explain the meaning of self and also truth (Lagna is Satya).

- In D1 its the native's true nature of physical body (appearance, attitude etc).
- In D10 its the native's true nature at work
- In D7 its the native's true nature with children

Om Tat Sat.
Deepak
RishiRahul and vivek.

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Post by prasanna » Wed May 06, 2009 3:47 am

Dear Vivekji, Namashkaar,

          I just found answer for the question Lagna here now. Thanks . U have asked us what  does  Bhaavat bhavam means ?


I searched for the meaning of the term bhaavat bhavam in Google I got  this fantastic post . I thought it will help all of us to know more about this Baavat bhavam So I wish to reproduce it here. Sorry , If U think it is not correct. ,  please forgive me for copying the post.



There is an interesting concept in Vedic astrology that can help us to understand the nature of the houses, called bhavat bhavam. It means "house from the house", and it refers to the method of counting the same number of houses from any house as that house is from the 1st house. In Jyotish, everything is anchored around the 1st house or Lagna. The whole chart is born from the 1st house and returns to it.

The bhavat bhavam house is like a secondary house for the house in question, and it shares some of its meaning. Here are the bhavat bhavam houses for each house:

3rd house is bhavat bhavam for the 2nd house (2nd from 2nd)
3rd house is also bhavat bhavam for the 8th house (8th from 8th)

The 3rd house is traditionally a house of siblings, but is also a house vital energy, curiosity, and desire. It is essentially the house of our ego selves. It shows where we want to put our energy and resources, what we want to learn how to do, and the struggles we need to go through in order to gain those new skills. In this way it relates to learning skills, sports, artistic abilities, competition, travel, and recreational activities. It is a secondary 2nd house because it shows what we want to do with our wealth, the struggles we go through to gain wealth, and how we relate to our siblings and peers (2nd house being a house of family and friends). It is a secondary 8th house because it leads to change, disruption, and struggle (mostly due to the ego's need to fight against something).

11th house is bhavat bhavam for the 12th house (12th from 12th)
11th house is also bhavat bhavam for the 6th house (6th from 6th)

The 11th house is traditionally a house of gains. It can also be related to large groups, organizations, and co-workers, because those are the people we have to deal with in order to make gains in society. The 11th house is also an ego-based house, where we seek to acquire something through our own actions, namely rewards, titles, and money. The 11th house is a secondary 12th house because in order to gain something we always have to give something. The 12th house is a house of expense, while the 11th house is a house of investment. The 11th house is a secondary 6th house because there is always some obstacle involved in making gains. It can also be a house of excess that can lead to accidents or health concerns, which are also reflections of the 6th house.

The 5th house is bhavat bhavam for the 3rd house (3rd from 3rd)
The 5th house is also bhavat bhavam for the 9th house (9th from 9th)

The 5th house is a house of creativity, which can be expressed as children but also as our own unique gifts and intelligence that naturally comes through us. The 5th house shows the thing that we are meant to do, what comes naturally to us. It is a secondary 3rd house because it can also be about the ego self, although more of the healthy ego self. The 5th house is a very personal house, showing our own personal mode of self-expression. It is also about learning and gaining knowledge, but while the 3rd house is about learning by practice and repetition, the 5th house is about gaining true knowledge and wisdom. The 5th house is a secondary 9th house because it is a reflection of our true life purpose and our spiritual calling.

The 9th house is bhavat bhavam for the 11th house (11th from 11th)
The 9th house is also bhavat bhavam for the 5th house (5th from 5th)

The 9th house is a house of spirituality, good fortune, life purpose, and how our purpose fits in with the greater laws of society. It is related to the father or teacher, as traditionally these were the parental figures that guided one's path in life. The 9th house is a secondary 11th house because it shows good fortune that can lead to gains in life. It also shows the direction we are aiming for in life, our aspirations and dreams, and so it reflects the theme of making gains. The 9th house is a secondary 5th house because it is about our life purpose, which is always related to our true gifts and talents, our self-expression, as well as our own innate nature. There is also a teacher/student connection between the 5th & 9th houses, the two houses of dharma besides the 1st house.

The 7th house is bhavat bhavam for the 4th house (4th from 4th)
The 7th house is also bhavat bhavam for the 10th house (10th from 10th)

The 7th house is traditionally seen as a house of relationships, but essentially it is a house of desire and the fulfillment of desire. Relationships are the main way in which we seek to fulfill our desires in life. The experience of desire always involves a feeling of incompleteness, and it is usually through other people that we want to complete ourselves. The 7th house is a secondary 4th house because it shows the fulfillment of our heart yearnings and our emotional being, represented by the 4th house. One of the purposes of a marriage is to create a stable and comfortable home for everyone involved. The 7th house is a secondary 10th house because relationships are always essential to one's career. We cannot really have status in life or achieve anything without the help of other people. The 4th & 10th houses reflected in the 7th show how we are always seeking to find fulfillment of the two opposite life aims of emotional happiness and material power.

The 1st house is bhavat bhavam for the 7th house (7th from 7th)

The 1st house or Lagna is a house of the self. The 1st house shows who we are in this lifetime. It is our physical body as well as our main personality. Determined by the turning of the Earth on its axis, it is like the stage or framework upon which our life is set. The sign that is in the 1st house always shows an energetic that we must learn to work with in some way in order to become whole and truly accept ourselves for who we are. The 1st house is a secondary 7th house because relationships are always a reflection of ourselves. Oftentimes we do not see ourselves for who we are until we enter into a relationship and have that reflection. Relationships are a partnership, and anything that happens in the relationship is a reflection of what's going on within us. The 1st and 7th houses are always opposite signs in the zodiac, but any two opposites taken to extremes are really the same thing.

This method of bhavat bhavam shows how the chart unfolds out of the 1st house. Out of the 1st house comes the other dharma houses, 5th & 9th, as well as the opposite and complementary house, the 7th. Out of the 5th & 9th come the 3rd & 11th houses, out of the 3rd comes the 2nd & 8th, and out of the 11th comes the 12th & 6th. Lastly, out of the 7th comes the 4th & 10th. The whole chart of houses is like a mathematical lotus flower, reflecting the sacred numerological laws of both two and three, which gives birth to the manifestation of the twelve, otherwise known as the zodiac.

David Ray

tribe.net.



U again asked, Can you explain the meaning of self and also truth ?(Lagna is Satya).


     I think the bold lettered words explains exact   meanings  of the  above question.


Regards,
prasanna

LEAD, KINDLY LIGHT. LOVE IS GOD, LOVE IS OCEAN, " Love Is Eternal. " LIVE TO LOVE TO LIVE.

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Post by vivekvshetty » Wed May 06, 2009 4:13 pm

namaskaar Prasanna ji and Everyone,
we use both the words (Self, Truth) so commonly, but do we really know what it means exactly?
you want us to spell it out for you, but we know that you know us better by now. Spoon feeding is not our forte.
RishiRahul and vivek.
prasanna wrote:Dear Vivekji, Namashkaar,

          I just found answer for the question Lagna here now. Thanks . U have asked us what  does  Bhaavat bhavam means ?


U again asked, Can you explain the meaning of self and also truth ?(Lagna is Satya).


     I think the bold lettered words explains exact   meanings  of the  above question.


Regards,

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We forgot to add.

Post by vivekvshetty » Wed May 06, 2009 4:20 pm

namaskaar all,
We forgot to add - why also the seventh Bhaava?
RishiRahul and vivek.

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Post by mysbcrs » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:42 pm

Namaskaar Vivekji/Rishiji,

Bhava sambandha based on planets are placed in quadrants from each other is said to make them co-operate. If one of them is a benefic and the other a malefic, does this mean that they will allow each other's agenda?

Similarly is graha sambandha due to parivartan between a malefic and a benefic (Sa in Leo and Su in Aq) beneficial for the native? What about other sambandhas between malefics and benefics?


I will also attempt to give my perspective on what is "self and truth".

"Self" is our perception of ourselves which is normally coloured by what we wish to be (aspirations) and what we have been (past as we assess it today). "Truth" on the other hand is the same thing excluding the errors in our perception. One very obvious error is the karmic balance of our past live/s which we cant perceive.

I can compare this to the difference between "mass" and "weight" in Physics.


CRS
CRS

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Post by vivekvshetty » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:11 pm

Namaskaar CRS ji,
comments below
mysbcrs wrote:Namaskaar Vivekji/Rishiji,

Bhava sambandha based on planets are placed in quadrants from each other is said to make them co-operate. If one of them is a benefic and the other a malefic, does this mean that they will allow each other's agenda?
They will because of the similarity in their mobility.

Similarly is graha sambandha due to parivartan between a malefic and a benefic (Sa in Leo and Su in Aq) beneficial for the native? What about other sambandhas between malefics and benefics?
Here the Bhaavas are seen. if both the Bhaavas involved are good (Kendra/trikona) then the parivartana is good or else bad.


I will also attempt to give my perspective on what is "self and truth".

"Self" is our perception of ourselves which is normally coloured by what we wish to be (aspirations) and what we have been (past as we assess it today). "Truth" on the other hand is the same thing excluding the errors in our perception. One very obvious error is the karmic balance of our past live/s which we cant perceive.
Great explanation but still we are not satisfied.

I can compare this to the difference between "mass" and "weight" in Physics.


CRS
RishiRahul and vivek.

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