lesson 13 -------- Naisargika Mitra or Shatru: Natural Friends and enemies

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lesson 13 -------- Naisargika Mitra or Shatru: Natural Friends and enemies

Post by RishiRahul » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:08 am

Naisargika Mitra or Shatru: Natural Friends and enemies

Every Graha treats the other Grahas as its friend or an enemy.

Each Graha has a Moolatrikona Raashi. The Moolatrikona is the office of the Graha. The list of Moolatrikona Raashi is given in the Graha lesson.
The Lords of the Raashis in Upachaya Sthaanas and also in the seventh, from the Moolatrikona of a Graha are enemies.
We know the Upachaya Sthaanas to be the 3rd, 6th, 10th and 11th
The Lords of the rest of the Raashis are friendly to the Graha.

An Example will make this clear.
Suryas Moolatrikona is Simha. From Simha the upachayas are Tula, Makara, Vrishabha and Mithuna. The Seventh Raashi is Kumbha.
Therefore the lords of these Raashis are enemies to Surya.
They are Shukra, Shani and Budha.
The lords of rest of the Raashis will be friends of Surya. They are Budha, Mangal, Guru and Chandra.
We see from the above that Budha is an enemy as well as friend of Surya and hence it becomes Nuetral.
Thus Surya will treat Shukra, Shani (Raahu also because of its co lordship of Kumbha) as enemies.
It will treat Mangal (Ketu also because of the co lordship of Vrischika) as friend
And it will treat Budha either as a Friend or an enemy depending on the Raashi supported by Budha, more among the two Raashis owned by it.

To judge which Raashi is more supported by a Graha who becomes Nuetral, we judge by the following steps.

A) If the Graha is placed in one of the two Raashis owned by it, then it will favor the Raashi and the final friendship/enmity will be decided by that Raashi.
Say for example For Surya we have found Budha to be Nuertal but, if it is placed in Mithuna which is an Upachaya from Simha (the Moolatrikona of Surya) then Surya will treat Budha as an enemy.
If Budha, on the other hand is placed in Kanya then Surya will treat Budha as a friend.

B) If the neutral Graha is placed in the seventh from any of the Raashis owned by it then also it will favor that Raashi more.
Say for example: Budha is placed in Meena. This is seventh from Kanya and so it favors Kanya more than Mithuna and hence Surya will treat Budha as a friend.

C) If the Neutral Graha is neither placed in one of the Raashi owned by it nor in the seventh from one of them then it will favor the Raashi which is of a different oddity from the Raashi it is placed in.
For example Budha is placed in Simha and Simha being an odd Raashi (Visham Raashi) Budha will favor Kanya more than Mithuna because Kanya is an even Raashi (Sama Raashi).

Thus we can find the Friendships and enmities of all the Grahas taking special care as when a Graha becomes Nuetral.

It is best for the Learner to find the friends and enemies of each Graha. It is better than looking up a ready table.

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Post by RishiRahul » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:51 am

Chandra has moolatrikona in Vrishabha and Kark falls in the third therefrom and hence becomes an enemy, Can a Graha be its own enemy?
Otherwise it has no enemies.


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Post by RishiRahul » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:11 pm

Amongst the Bhaavas the seventh from the Moolatrikona is the most hated and this Raashi will be a problematic area for the native.

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Post by Raman Deep Singh » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:24 am

Dear Rishirahul ji,

This means that if lagna is same as moolltrikona for planet placed in it . For example  Sun in Leo in lagna(lets consider it to be in same degree which is required by sun to take leo as its mooltrikona and not own raashi or Swa-raashi) then it means that
the native will always have problem with his married life or spouse and problem will increase if 7th lord is placed in lagna which will opposite to general  belief that if lagna lord and 7th lord are placed in lagana then it gives good effect.

Any relation of Sun(in the case im considering)with 7th lord or 7th house will coz problem. This also means that native will have problem with his/her business partner.

Please explain this. Also explain your previous question. I am not able to answet that. Coz i think for Tauras lagna 3rd house that is house owned by moon (Cancer) should not be bad coz it is owned by moon itself which is placed in tauras lagna i.e. its exhalted house.

Raman

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Post by RishiRahul » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:02 pm

Namashkaar Ramanji,

In the above posts, which is thepresent thread, we are discussing about........... a way of finding the 'NARURAL' or 'Naisargik' friendships and enmities of all the Grahas.

When we bring in the Lagna factor into it we are not discussing about the NATURAL or NAISARGIK relations anymore, but are shifting to predictive areas.

Hope you are clear about the above.

Now, answering your query would mean... of not talking of the Naisargik relations anymore.....But it is a related question.

Your Questions =

(Q1)What happens when "lagna is same as moolltrikona for planet placed in it . For example  Sun in Leo in lagna, where Sun is in (lets consider it to be in same degree which is required by sun to take leo as its mooltrikona and not own raashi or Swa-raashi) then it means that the native will always have problem with his married life or spouse and problem will increase if 7th lord is placed in lagna which will opposite to general  belief that if lagna lord and 7th lord are placed in lagana then it gives good effect.

ANSWER= Firstly, Sun's Moolatrikona is Leo...anywhere in Leo...no degrees determine perfect moolatrikonas, as we in case of
debilitation/exaltation.



(Q2) Coz i think for Tauras lagna 3rd house that is house owned by moon (Cancer) should not be bad coz it is owned by moon itself which is placed in tauras lagna i.e. its exhalted house....is not understood.

ANSWER= The Lords of the Raashis in Upachaya Sthaanas and also in the seventh, from the Moolatrikona of a Graha are enemies. We know the Upachaya Sthaanas to be the 3rd, 6th, 10th and 11th. The Lords of the rest of the Raashis are friendly to the Graha.
Exceptions to the above formulae is:=When the upachaya rasi becomes the same planet. For example Chandra has moolatrikona in Vrishabha and Kark falls in the third therefrom and hence becomes an enemy, Can a Graha be its own enemy? Otherwise it has no enemies.
You are getting mixed up and getting Lagna into your question and again.

Hope you understand now? If there are any unfinished answers, you could ask them again.


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Post by vivekvshetty » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:07 pm

Raman Deep Singh wrote:Dear Rishirahul ji,

This means that if lagna is same as moolltrikona for planet placed in it . For example  Sun in Leo in lagna(lets consider it to be in same degree which is required by sun to take leo as its mooltrikona and not own raashi or Swa-raashi) then it means that
the native will always have problem with his married life or spouse and problem will increase if 7th lord is placed in lagna which will opposite to general  belief that if lagna lord and 7th lord are placed in lagana then it gives good effect.

Any relation of Sun(in the case im considering)with 7th lord or 7th house will coz problem. This also means that native will have problem with his/her business partner.

Please explain this. Also explain your previous question. I am not able to answet that. Coz i think for Tauras lagna 3rd house that is house owned by moon (Cancer) should not be bad coz it is owned by moon itself which is placed in tauras lagna i.e. its exhalted house.

Raman
Namaskaar Ramanji,
Learning or teaching Jyotish in a Hapazard is not our aim and neither should it be yours.
Understanding of any principle of Jyotish has many stages.
Reading or getting to know about it.
Trying to find out why and how the principle was formulated.
Trying to guess the usage and where it can be used and how it is to be used.
The principle may not be for using at all places.
Otherwise it will be all a very confusing subject to study (what to say of applying).

Coming to the lesson- why do you think Naisargika friendship and enmities or reckoned from the moolatrikona Raashis?
 
RishiRahul and vivek.

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Post by Raman Deep Singh » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:16 pm

Dear Vivek and Rishirahul ji,

I did consider lagna for this understanding of natural friendship bcoz it can be one of the considerations during prediction but i think u r right rishirahul ji that first we should learn everything before jumping on to predictive part...

Secondly,I have read in quite a books for example by KN Rao ji and PVR Narasimha Raoji that Mooltrikona is judged according to degreee forexample :- Leo is mooltrikona for Sun till 20 degree and after that become i.e. 20-30 drgree it gives effect of Own house.....

Vivek ji im not trying to run faster than the lessons, i do understand that my approach towards any thought or rule should be very systematic to understand and grasp that rule fully....My main purpose to ask question was to understand how we will go about understanding the enemity and friendship between planets going by their signs , may it be lagna or AL etc....Coz i want to understand how we will consider it in our understanding of relationship and use it.....


About mooltrikona question,recently i did ask this question in this thread..

http://mysticboard.org/ve ... 18&start=0


Please do explain....

Thanking you
Raman

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Post by vivekvshetty » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:20 pm

Raman Deep Singh wrote:Dear Vivek and Rishirahul ji,

I did consider lagna for this understanding of natural friendship bcoz it can be one of the considerations during prediction but i think u r right rishirahul ji that first we should learn everything before jumping on to predictive part...

Secondly,I have read in quite a books for example by KN Rao ji and PVR Narasimha Raoji that Mooltrikona is judged according to degreee forexample :- Leo is mooltrikona for Sun till 20 degree and after that become i.e. 20-30 drgree it gives effect of Own house.....

Vivek ji im not trying to run faster than the lessons, i do understand that my approach towards any thought or rule should be very systematic to understand and grasp that rule fully....My main purpose to ask question was to understand how we will go about understanding the enemity and friendship between planets going by their signs , may it be lagna or AL etc....Coz i want to understand how we will consider it in our understanding of relationship and use it.....


About mooltrikona question,recently i did ask this question in this thread..

http://mysticboard.org/ve ... 18&start=0


Please do explain....

Thanking you
Raman
Namaskaar raman ji,
we would like if you give your understanding first on the moolatrikona thing. We know, you dont expect to be spoon fed.

RishiRahul and vivek.

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Post by Raman Deep Singh » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 am

Dear Vivek ji,
:-)  you r right i dont expect to be spoon fed, though i did think of a probable answer but thought lets ask rather then making guesses..... ;-)

According to me  and as per what i have read :-  Since it is thought that When in Mooltrikona planet is like in its office unlike in exhaltation, own house etc.. state...Thus he is behaving more responsibily and sincerely and not like in Exhalted state where it is more like in most happy and excited state , For example(im using example from this forum i have read about a while ago not sure who wrote it)in exhalted state it is like an happy elephant taking bath in river thus behaving more naturally. In Mooltrikona state it is like leading his fellow elephants and guiding them though the forest thus he knows whats right and whats wrong and has to behave more responsibly. He know which ways can create problem(ENEMIES) for his fellows and dependents,For which he can take chances(NEUTRAL PLANETS) and which ways he can be sure of(FRIENDS).Since being in the state of office he has to take decision more thoughtfully and can taken for granted only those things and facts which are permanent

This is what i feel to be a reason for considering naisargik relationship of planets from Mooltrikona.

I hope i havent disappointed you :-).

Regards,
Raman

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Post by vivekvshetty » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:47 pm

Raman Deep Singh wrote:Dear Vivek ji,
:-)  you r right i dont expect to be spoon fed, though i did think of a probable answer but thought lets ask rather then making guesses..... ;-)

According to me  and as per what i have read :-  Since it is thought that When in Mooltrikona planet is like in its office unlike in exhaltation, own house etc.. state...Thus he is behaving more responsibily and sincerely and not like in Exhalted state where it is more like in most happy and excited state , For example(im using example from this forum i have read about a while ago not sure who wrote it)in exhalted state it is like an happy elephant taking bath in river thus behaving more naturally. In Mooltrikona state it is like leading his fellow elephants and guiding them though the forest thus he knows whats right and whats wrong and has to behave more responsibly. He know which ways can create problem(ENEMIES) for his fellows and dependents,For which he can take chances(NEUTRAL PLANETS) and which ways he can be sure of(FRIENDS).Since being in the state of office he has to take decision more thoughtfully and can taken for granted only those things and facts which are permanent

This is what i feel to be a reason for considering naisargik relationship of planets from Mooltrikona.

I hope i havent disappointed you :-).

Regards,
Raman
Namaskaar Raman ji,
we are sure no one is disappointed. it was a bulls eye reply.
the elephant illustration was given w.r.t Guru's exalation. Ofcourse this can be suitably extended to the other Grahas.
But why the Upachayas and the seventh from the office of the Graha? What makes the Graha treat these places as enemies?
RishiRahul and vivek.

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Post by Raman Deep Singh » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:47 am

Dear Vivek ji,
Thank you for replying......
You again ended up asking questions to me ;-) and boggling my mind with thousands of logics.i
really appreciate you trying to push me.
I will try to think about this and will write as soon as i get time off..I am gona be travelling so may not be able to reply soon
but will do it ASAP.

Regards,
Raman

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Post by RishiRahul » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:02 pm

Raman Deep Singh wrote:Dear Vivek and Rishirahul ji,


Secondly,I have read in quite a books for example by KN Rao ji and PVR Narasimha Raoji that Mooltrikona is judged according to degreee forexample :- Leo is mooltrikona for Sun till 20 degree and after that become i.e. 20-30 drgree it gives effect of Own house.....

Raman
ANSWER= Firstly, Sun's Moolatrikona is Leo...anywhere in Leo...no degrees determine perfect moolatrikonas, as we in case of
debilitation/exaltation.

vivek and RishiRahul[/quote]


Namashkaar Ramanji,

We thought we shoud make the understanding regarding moolatrikona degrees in reference to te present topic clearer.

While finding out or indentifying the natural benefics and malefics of planets using the moolatrikona theory, just forget about the degree of moolatrikona; as we are talking in respect of moolatrikona signs.

Moolatrikona is the office of the planet, as you have understood so well. If a planet is out/away from the best degrees of the moolatrikona sign, it does not cease to be in moolatrikona.

vivek and RishiRahul

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Post by rajitha » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:46 pm

Rishji & Vivekji,
  Thanks for a good lesson. The examples provided were especially useful.

I was just not clear about one thing.

You said that the 7th lord from the Moolatrikona would be worst enemy and that area would suffer.
Can you elaborate on it with an example please.
Would a planet placed in such a house also suffer?
Also, let's say there is an exalted planet in that house, the house significations would surely benefit. So, how would this be affected?


I am thinking the 7th is the worst since 7th from any house represents the opposite of that house. So, the sign opposite to Moolatrikona would suggest
the opposite of all that the Moolatrikona house stands for.

Thanks in advance.

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Post by RishiRahul » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:15 pm

rajitha wrote:Rishji & Vivekji,
  Thanks for a good lesson. The examples provided were especially useful.

I was just not clear about one thing.

You said that the 7th lord from the Moolatrikona would be worst enemy and that area would suffer.
Can you elaborate on it with an example please.

vivek and RishiRahul= Saturn's moolatrikona is Kumbha. Its 7th. huse lord is Sun (Saturn's worst enemy).
Here we are talking of Saturn and its relation with Sun and nothing else.


Would a planet placed in such a house also suffer?

vivek and RishiRahul=Suffer from what? We were only talking about Saturn and Sun's relation.

Also, let's say there is an exalted planet in that house, the house significations would surely benefit. So, how would this be affected?

vivek and RishiRahul= Answer and its sense explained above. Yes, the house would certainly benefit.


I am thinking the 7th is the worst since 7th from any house represents the opposite of that house. So, the sign opposite to Moolatrikona would suggest
the opposite of all that the Moolatrikona house stands for.

vivek and RishiRahul= Yes. the opposite of all that the Moolatrikona house stands for.... is correct.



Thanks in advance.


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Shatru / mitra

Post by deepakosho » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:18 pm

Vivekji and Rishiji,

What the significance of temporary friendship (why only 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 12,th, 11th and 10th)? does it function throughout the life?

So should we only consider compound relationship on a chart? For e.g.) Venus and saturn are naisargika friends but may become neutral if he is temporary enemy. So in this case if venus is in mercury's house do i consider it as being in neutral house (until now wheneven I see mercury or venus in each others houses, i used consider them being in friends house)?

Please reply.

Om Tat Sat,
Deepak

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