The Four Elements

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RoseRed
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Post by RoseRed » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:00 am

hahaha! soulsearch I loved the way that yours was so easy to follow and logical...its like a step by step process - which I love as I love mathematical orientated things. Just makes such perfect sense! :)

I got very confused with this as I wasn’t sure how to look at it, just seemed like their were too many options and you said to keep it simple. Okay so taking the diagram at it is:
Top section: Fire (hot, dry)
Right section: Earth (dry, cold)
Bottom section: Water (cold, wet)
Left section: Air (hot, wet)

The pattern I see here is that they all link together, like each sign has another part of another sign.
Like Fire has a little Earth and Air,
Earth has a little Fire and Water,
Water has a little Earth and Air
Air has a little Fire and Water.
Not sure if that means anything! heehee

The first thing that popped in my head when I saw the combo hot and wet (Air) I thought humid! That’s prob also because where I’m living at the moment its verrrry humid out here!!  :smt005
So then I thought well it could be kinds of weather?
This might be different for everyone cause we live in diff places but this is what I kind of came up with. Oh and I also seemed to relate it to certain areas…so let's ramble on further!

Fire: hot & dry – Desert
Earth: dry & cold – Polar regions
Water: cold & wet – Marshes like Ireland, Scotland, England
Air: hot & wet – Tropics
But that makes no sense….
Okay moving along!

I didn’t do this I found this, but now looking at it, it kinda makes sense…
Summer - Fire - Cancer, Leo, Virgo
Spring - Earth - Aries, Taurus, Gemini
Winter - Water - Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces
Autumn - Air - Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius

“So, if something was a WATER element and COLD, what things or places or behavior would you find?  Don't make it more complicated than it is.”

Going with what Youdah said….aaahh crap there could be loads of options here!
Isn’t this some kind of mathematics like sequences or series or something? Like you can work out the number of permutations…oh big word for so early in the morning!
So if water has 4 options, these are going to have to be guesses cause I’m confused! heehee Maybe this will help me focus my thoughts…
“that every THING/ PLACE/ PERSON/ ANIMAL/ THOUGHT/ BEHAVIOR/ EXPERIENCE or PERSONALITY on the planet, or in the heavens, has the "energy" of the elements in it.”
Okay let's do it!
water- cold: okayy brrrr cold – frigid – ice – solid – has a defined structure
Things:
Places:
Behaviour: Don’t want to listen to any ideas, kinda set in their ways?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
water –hot: hot okay bubbling hot! Boiling, vigorous, steam created, energetic, transformation, cleansing, burning,
Things:
Places:
Behaviour: Maybe an aggressive and stinging attack?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
water – dry: ummm…the well has dried up? Hard water like on your skin so not gentle and nutritious?
Things:
Places:
Behaviour: Kinda abrasive? Not that many feelings at the moment?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
water- wet: happy, fun, joyful, playful, cocoon, vitality etc
Things:
Places:
Behaviour: Lots of fun and inner child emotions, play time for someone, look at life with new vitality and enthusiasm??
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

aaahhh jees I can’t think of any positive ones! Except the last one. That’s terrible. blegh.  :smt019
Didn’t want to do the others as I first wanted to check if I’m kinda on the correct track here. Struggled a lot with this. 
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soulsearch
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Post by soulsearch » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:55 am

Thanks Rosered for getting the thoughts going. I did reach a block but just wanted to ramble along.

Regarding places I couldnt place it. When the place I live in is supposed to be humid is having unpredicted rains...and we hear about things happening at the poles..now desert has always remained deserts unless I havent read enough  :smt017

When I saw the chart ( 2-d). The points as stand alone could exhibit the traits of Hot,Dry,Cold,Wet ( all sound negative to me) but when looked at with respect as midpoints of a certain line then that could be the area of balance.

Eg :
Personality ( negative)
Water:Emotional,weepy,sensitive.....................(cold).........................(earth)rigid, methodical...
Would cold be able to help in bringing about some balance at the Water-earth level with the help of wet and dry elements

I am going to hold on to that thought.. to know if its the correct thought process...and if I am in accordance with the simple principle.

Cheers

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Post by Youdah » Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:43 am

If you were an artist, a painter, you could blend (mix) yellow paint and blue paint to get green paint.  Each tube of paint, yellow and blue, is a complete color in itself.  Yet, when blended together, they form an entirely new color that is unique to itself, green.  Without blue and yellow, there could be no grass or trees.  Without blue, we couldn't have a sky, or without yellow we couldn't have dandelions.  Every color, even though it is part another color, is necessary.

It is the same with astrology.  You “blend” different ideas, concepts, and thoughts to get an infinite variety of new “colors.”

So, if you blend the elements (fire, earth, air, water) with something else (hot, cold, dry, moist), then it is the same principle as mixing colors.  Each time you mix the IDEAS, you will get a new IDEA that is unique and different, even though it contains some of the Idea of each thing that was mixed with it...just like the color green contains some of the blue and yellow paint that was used to make "green."

You wanted to know if you were on the right track.  Your mix of colors (ideas) will be entirely different from anyone else's mix of ideas, because the way you mix them comes from who you ARE...your life experiences, your observations of people, the things you've learned, the places you've been, your inner wisdom, your intuition...

There is no "wrong" or "right" way to mix colors.  You mix them according to what is pleasing to YOU, and by doing that, you have made a perfect painting...a perfect interpretation, a perfect blending of a new idea.
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soulsearch
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Post by soulsearch » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:22 pm

That is indeed a beautiful picture. Yes I agree that eveybody's pictures are different. What colours we chose could be the colours either we resonate with well or lack ( Yin and Yang??) hence creating a picture that we like or what we aspire.But that would be my picture.If it ends there then I could love my painting but would not be able to appreciate/connect with anybody elses?KWIM

I cant wait for the class to begin :)

dc
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Post by dc » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:12 pm

It is also interesting how you guys as two diferent elements (fire&water) have your own way of explaning things :)

dc
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Post by dc » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:20 pm

Seasons do start as RoseRed said....

Spring - Earth - Aries, TAURUS, Gemini
Summer - Fire - Cancer, LEO, Virgo
Autumn - WATER - Libra, SCORPIO, Sagittarius
Winter - AIR - Capricorn, AQUARIUS, Pisces             (I've switched Water and Air here)

but the best representativ of season is sign and element in the midle as highest spot with the most caracteristics
of every Seaon.....
Taurus in May described as bloom of the earth is the best indicator for Spring,
as oposite we have Scorpio in November when everithing dies, best description for Fall,
than the warmest Month, August with Leo when it's ruler Sun is on highest spot above the earth, Summer,
and oposite is Aquarius in February when Winter is the coldest...

through elements we can say:
Spring is showen through fertile Earth, mother of all beginings, all births,
Summer is defenitly the warmest season and with highest temperatures ends up with alot of 'Fire',
Autumnt, rain, flood, death brouth by Water
Winter is probably connected with cold Air....
....
but
can't all this be said in litlle bit diferent way?
as life comes from Earth it goes beck where it came from- to Earth
as Wather can kill it gives Life too since the first  life started in Water,
than if we add some Air and Water to 'Fiery' Summer we have humid,
and Water might fit better in Winter with its diferent condicions, ice, snow...

I get more confused as I try think harder and maybe the best answer is that this 4 elements
are everywhere around us, working together through times and places
and in this case through Seasons too, some of them are geting stronger
while others are becking up....... :)

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RoseRed
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Post by RoseRed » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:24 pm

I absolutely LOVED the imagery of the paint – helps to make so much sense!
It's a great base to have for the course – kinda like have confidence in yourself because your answers are ‘correct’ for YOU!  I liiikkkeee.
I guess my question of whether I’m on the ‘right’ path (I always put a ‘’ around words when I think they are relative i.e. what is ‘good’, what is ‘bad’? Who decides? Can be different for each person etc) was that I’m sure there must be a kinda standard answer per say to the mixture one would get. And I was wondering if I was ANY where near that. But I’m sure that will all be covered in the course.

Hummmm that’s an interesting thought soulsearch…I guess one would have to be able to adapt to the person you are doing a reading for? Or maybe one would have to mention that to the person before, saying listen I can do a chart/reading for you but it is still coming from ME, with all my own personal experiences as Youdah says so perfectly “comes from who you ARE...your life experiences, your observations of people, the things you've learned, the places you've been, your inner wisdom, your intuition...”. So this reading is not set in stone it is open to interpretation – but if you would like to hear mine then here it is...<<insert reading here>> heehee :)
I think that sort of puts everyone into perspective and takes out the, ”Well you TOLD me it was going to be like this”, and any accusations??

dc that is a very good point!
We have given very different ways of answering.
dc wrote: but the best representative of season is sign and element in the middle as highest spot with the most characteristics of every Season.....
Okay with you, good point!

Yeah I must say not really getting the Fall and Water being together, as I see Autumn/Fall as the Death, the phoenix etc. It's the end of a cycle, the end of something and then from there a birth comes.
And water…well…I’m just not really seeing how water is seen as the end…hey wait…maybe it is…I mean water is the giver of life…it can also be the end of life. Us humans are made up of something like 75% of water so it is almost like our life force…:)

hahahahaha! I must agree! Very confusing when you let your thoughts run with you.
I think what the lesson here is that everything is interrelated and intertwined.
And that we have to take that under consideration at all times.
RR

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Post by Youdah » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:43 pm

soulsearch wrote:That is indeed a beautiful picture. Yes I agree that eveybody's pictures are different. What colours we chose could be the colours either we resonate with well or lack ( Yin and Yang??) hence creating a picture that we like or what we aspire.But that would be my picture.If it ends there then I could love my painting but would not be able to appreciate/connect with anybody elses?KWIM

I cant wait for the class to begin :)

"Life" would come along to challenge the painting.  Life might say, "what if you used a brighter shade of blue..."

Perhaps someone who was rigid in their thinking wouldn't listen to Life and stubbornly cling to only their own way of doing things.

Perhaps someone who was adaptable would try it another way just to see how it might look; or even do it like Life wanted, so would lose their own colors.

Perhaps someone who was full of energy and initiative would suddenly realize how many different ways there are to do things and set out to try them all!

Yes, a person could only like their own painting.  But, that person would be the "rigid" kind of person, wouldn't they?  Wouldn't other types of people respond differently to Life?

And what about Life?  What kind of a person would Life be, to go around telling other people how they should choose their colors?  Earth?  Fire?  Hot?  Cold?  Adaptable?  Rigid?  Yin or Yang? &nbsp;A combination of these?

In anything, there are at least TWO things (or people) interacting.  What is the "mix of colors" when these two things meet?  Do they blend easily, collide with one another, argue incessantly and nothing ever accomplished?

And what about the meeting between Life and the artist! &nbsp;Would their meeting and conversation, how they interacted, be a beginning? &nbsp;A Middle? &nbsp;An End? &nbsp;And to who would that beginning, middle or end belong? &nbsp;To Life? &nbsp;The painter?

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Post by Youdah » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:01 pm

RoseRed wrote:(snip) Yeah I must say not really getting the Fall and Water being together, as I see Autumn/Fall as the Death, the phoenix etc. It's the end of a cycle, the end of something and then from there a birth comes.

Can't water have a cycle, too?  Perhaps in the dryer months, water is evaporating and becoming AIR! &nbsp;When that happens, the balance would be different...more AIR and less WATER. &nbsp;Then when it rained again....

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RoseRed
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Post by RoseRed » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:16 pm

Youdah wrote:And what about Life? &nbsp;What kind of a person would Life be, to go around telling other people how they should choose their colors? &nbsp;Earth? &nbsp;Fire? &nbsp;Hot? &nbsp;Cold? &nbsp;Adaptable? &nbsp;Rigid? &nbsp;Yin or Yang? &nbsp;A combination of these?
Yeah wouldn't be a 'good' thing.
So could you just say that the elements are what they are or maybe even what they chose to be? Thats a bit open ended.
or maybe the question does not need to be answered? The question of is it this or that etc.
It just is. ??
And is perfect as whichever way it decides to present itself?
Okay I'm all up in the AIR! heehee Sleep time is needed. :)
Youdah wrote:Can't water have a cycle, too? &nbsp;Perhaps in the dryer months, water is evaporating and becoming AIR!
Ah! Thank you!
Click - well...Semi-click...i guess i will need more examples to make it really settle in my head.
Thank you
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Post by Youdah » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:17 pm

dc wrote:(snip)
Winter is probably connected with cold Air....
Thanks for your posts, dc!  I had to smile that you are saying exactly where I was going!  Yet, your way of saying it is better than I would have said it.  :)

With Runes, water in winter is ICE (water + cold = ICE).  Another part of the cyclic natures in water and the elements.

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Post by Youdah » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:33 pm

I'll throw something else into the mix!

What about the times of the day!

Sunrise = spring = moist = earth
Noon = summer = hot = fire
Sunset  = autumn = dry = air
Midnight = winter = cold = water

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Post by Youdah » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:56 pm

RoseRed wrote: It just is. ??
And is perfect as whichever way it decides to present itself?
Yes!  That's exactly it!  It just IS!

Remove judgment, right/wrong, from the equation and it just becomes.

Like a flower blooming in its own way, in its own season and time.  You can feed it, give it water, train its branches or stem, nurture it, talk to it, provide a good environment; but ultimately it will become what it was meant to become. &nbsp;No amount of arguing with it, trying to make it a daisy when it's a columbine, trying to change its color by shaming it, or any other method will ever succeed. &nbsp;So, just let it become what it was meant to become.

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Post by Youdah » Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:55 pm

RoseRed wrote: I guess my question of whether I’m on the ‘right’ path (I always put a ‘’ around words when I think they are relative i.e. what is ‘good’, what is ‘bad’? Who decides? Can be different for each person etc) was that I’m sure there must be a kinda standard answer per say to the mixture one would get. And I was wondering if I was ANY where near that. But I’m sure that will all be covered in the course.

Standard answers?  Perhaps.  I'm sure there are those who would want you to believe that there are "standard answers,"  In this way, they try to elevate themselves above you...to convince you that only "they" have the answers.  In this way, they have stopped listening for YOUR truth, so they can't learn from YOU!

But, isn't TRUTH universal?  As such, it is already inside you, or accessible to YOU...everyone.  If it is TRUTH, you will know it by how it sounds to you, and feels to you.  All I can say will only "awaken" it inside you.  In these discussions, I have already learned much from my "students!"  So, aren't I just another student?  

Believe in your own wisdom, and do not set another above you or below you...only beside you.

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Post by dc » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:16 am

ok guys, however....
rain or no rain, colored or not, it's simple, Life is cycle
and that's it!
so to keep it simple put it just as white and black.
It goes where it comes from and again it will come from the same place.......
we are just human beings and we don't really need to know everything!

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