Lesson 1 Discussion and Interpretation -- The Houses

Clear your doubts and ask questions. Get answers to all your queries which will help you learn faster.

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Youdah
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Re: Questions before I start

Post by Youdah » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:17 pm

RoseRed wrote: Thats why I have:
(5 to 6) House 5: Aquarius and Pisces (more pisces than aquarius)
Next Question:
Because I have the two signs within my house and the one covers more area than the next. Do I then have more pisces qualities when it comes to the 5th house than aquarius qualities, or does the line of intersection mean than even though I have pisces in my 5th house, aquarius is the dominant sign (cause of the line of intersection).

Oh and I wanted to ask, is the horizontal line always horizontal?

(if I look in the little circle in the middle of the whole graphic i can see my horizontal line is perfectly horizontal but my vertical line has gone a bit squif)
How to read an "intercepted" sign in a house depends on the kind of reading that you're doing.  But, we can get into that later.  For now, we're doing natal chart readings, so, think of it as a difference in "growth and maturity."  The first sign. going counter-clockwise, will apply more to earlier years of life, but maturity will bring on the qualities of the next sign in the House.  

Just as a side note: you can determine when -- at what age -- this transformation will occur by counting the number of degrees in that house before the next sign begins.  Remember that each "sign" has 30 degrees, but each house has a variable number of degrees.  So, if the 8th degree of Aquarius was on the 5th house cusp, about age 22 you would begin to show the qualities of the next sign, Pisces.

You can also read an intercepted House in a natal chart as an "experience" or "growth" in that House.  Suppose the "native" ("native" being the person whose natal chart you are looking at, including if it is yourself) is doing a painting.  At first, you might approach your creation like the qualities of Aquarius (earth, yin, angular).  But, as your project continued, you would change your approach to more Piscean qualities (water, yin, cadent).  Another example of how "experience" and "growth" evolves with an intercepted sign might be that when you first had children (5th house), you would think in abstract terms about your children, a part of humanity and an expression of your philosophies of life, hoping to mold them into mini-YOU's (aquarius qualities).  But, as your children got older, you become less cold and detached, more emotionally attached to them, more nurturing (Pisces).  

Another thing that can happen is that the native isn't ever really settled in that House....things of one sign are always being "at war" with the next Sign within the psyche or with others in the environment, and this battle continues until the native can successfully integrate the qualities of the next sign.

Intercepted signs are used in karmic astrology -- just to give you an idea of another application -- would show that the native is evolving spiritually into the next sign...that growing into the next sign is that person's goal in this life, having incomplete growth from another lifetime, represented by the first sign in that house.

Something else to consider is just what you already thought...when a sign is intercepted very early into the House -- say in the first few degrees -- you would have "more" of the second sign qualities in that House than the sign that is about to leave.

Since intercepted signs are very common, I'll try to post a thread about them.
RoseRed wrote: Oh and I wanted to ask, is the horizontal line always horizontal?

(if I look in the little circle in the middle of the whole graphic i can see my horizontal line is perfectly horizontal but my vertical line has gone a bit squif)
Well, it depends on the software.  I've seen some software that keeps the Midheaven line the constant.  And, I've seen software that shifts them all so that the entire chart is almost sideways.  The thing to remember is just to be able to locate the Ascendant/Midheaven lines.

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Re: Step 1: Getting all the info

Post by RoseRed » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:59 pm

Youdah wrote:Just a few comments as I'm reading your interpretations!  :)
RoseRed wrote: Succedent (middle): Succedent houses, as a whole, have a stable, unchanging, fixed quality, deriving from their central position in each quadrant of the chart.
I associate the "stable, unchanging, fixed" description more with the Cadent Houses (end of the cycles).  The Suceedant Houses are in the "middle" of the cycle, so are still open to change, but the fixed qualities are emerging and being developed.  Kinda half mutable and half fixed quality.
RoseRed wrote: Fixed: are associated with ....(snip)...loyal and a little inflexible in their outlook.
A fixed sign is not just "a little" inflexible.  These people can be stubborn to a fault, clawing to keep their viewpoint even with overwhelming evidence that proves them wrong, especially if there are more "fixed" positions in their chart.  You say this farther into your description.
RoseRed wrote:...snip..Fixed signs...
According to astrologers, Fixed Signs tend to direct their energies inward rather than outward.
I don't think I agree with this entirely.  If you think about a Leo, this is someone who definitely puts his/her energies outward.  Taurus, another fixed sign is less dramatic, but energies are outward in the collecting of money/possessions.  Scorpio, another fixed sign, directs energies outward, also, but in subtle ways.  Aquarius, the last fixed sign of the Zodiac, directs energies outward toward humanity and grand philosophies. But, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here.  :)
Thank you for explaining more of it!
I had no idea what the Angular, Succedant or Cadent meant, nor what fixed, mutable or cardinal means.
I don't even know what the respective elements mean other than what I 'came' up with in that exercise.
I had no information base to get any info on the respective headings so I took your advice and went to wiki. That is what they 'came' up with.
So thank you for explaining!

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Re: Questions before I start

Post by RoseRed » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:37 pm

Youdah wrote:Just as a side note: you can determine when -- at what age -- this transformation will occur by counting the number of degrees in that house before the next sign begins. ...So, if the 8th degree of Aquarius was on the 5th house cusp, about age 22 you would begin to show the qualities of the next sign, Pisces.

You can also read an intercepted House in a natal chart as an "experience" or "growth" in that House.  Suppose the "native" ("native" being the person whose natal chart you are looking at, including if it is yourself) is doing a painting.  At first, you might approach your creation like the qualities of Aquarius (earth, yin, angular).  But, as your project continued, you would change your approach to more Piscean qualities (water, yin, cadent).  Another example of how "experience" and "growth" evolves with an intercepted sign might be that when you first had children (5th house), you would think in abstract terms about your children, a part of humanity and an expression of your philosophies of life, hoping to mold them into mini-YOU's (aquarius qualities).  But, as your children got older, you become less cold and detached, more emotionally attached to them, more nurturing (Pisces).  

Another thing that can happen is that the native isn't ever really settled in that House....things of one sign are always being "at war" with the next Sign within the psyche or with others in the environment, and this battle continues until the native can successfully integrate the qualities of the next sign.

Intercepted signs are used in karmic astrology -- just to give you an idea of another application -- would show that the native is evolving spiritually into the next sign...that growing into the next sign is that person's goal in this life, having incomplete growth from another lifetime, represented by the first sign in that house.

Something else to consider is just what you already thought...when a sign is intercepted very early into the House -- say in the first few degrees -- you would have "more" of the second sign qualities in that House than the sign that is about to leave.

Since intercepted signs are very common, I'll try to post a thread about them.
Lots of questions about things mentioned here:
Such as how do you get the age relation with the degrees.
And if you are about 22 already at the 8th degree then WOW! how old do ppl potentially reach too? hahahaha!!!

I like all the different ways of looking at it.
Kind of brings to mind the even though you were born a particular sign, you are in actual fact all the signs in one. And in order to be a fully well-rounded balanced and grounded person you have to integrate all the signs.
Bringing them all into ONE.
:)
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Rose Red

Post by Hoosiergal » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:47 pm

Okay here's where I think you got it right. CHILDREN - I was a very strict mother with my kids - more so my oldest (daughter) than my youngest (son).  That wasn't because I favored him over her, it was because of the influence of the father.  This sentence said a lot to me "So cut throat, black and white, BUT in actually fact the parent is able to adapt and learn from new situations". I actually was a person who saw things as black & white (wrong & right, moral & immoral, etc) until the day I learned one of my children was gay. That caused me to look at things a whole different way. "Children might misperceive this as that the parent is always shooting down all their thoughts and ideas but in actual fact they are just trying to let their kids understand the true reality of the situation, how difficult it might be, how much work they (the children) need to put in in order for it to be a success." - I'm sure my kids thought this lots of times, but I wanted them to know that things don't always just cokme easy and if it's something you really want, just may  have to work for it. PLEASURES - I do like going to the "finer places". ROMANCE - "Trustworthy and a good source for advice to their partner" - extrememly right on the money. I was a military wife and I know it was with my support that my husband achieved rank sooner than many others.

What you didn't get right - ROMANCE - "Is the one that keeps the family together as a solid unit" - I was the one who ended the marriage. I grew up and saw myself in a very dysfunctional relationship. I couldn't stay for anyone's (my children, other family members, etc) and keep my sanity. "Will be quite creative and spontaneous about things to do, places to go, things to experience - when feeling the burn of love" - don't have a spontaneous bone in my body. Actually makes me nervous to think of doing something on the spur of the moment. PLEASURES - "I think that maybe once this person matures into wife and mother they may rather want to just go on calm and not too far holidays, like maybe just a weekend by the beach or in the country." No way, I plan to go to Alaska and watch the Iditarod and to England and become acquainted with family my dad has over there. I will ride the Orient Express before I die too.

I'd say overall, you did a really good job.

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Youdah

Post by Hoosiergal » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:08 pm

To get my chart into a .gif file I did this. Once the chart was generated, I did a print screen and copied it into MS Publisher. I played around with it until I got it to a larger size that made reading it easier. Then when I went to save it I selected Save As. Where it gives you the screen to name the file, below it is the drop down to the format you can Save As Type. The list contained GIF Graphics Interchange Format.
Does this help?

Sandi

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Post by Castitatis Lilium » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:42 pm

So, my fifth house.

Image

I have my Moon and Ceres in Libra. I think that Ceres is the ruler here.
Ceres tells how we look how we look like our self, our inner "worth", the relation against our parents and children, our justice, our independance, losing, divorce, our mourning, sharing, work and productivity. The fifth house, as the house of Children, Pleasures, Creativity and Romace, does fit with it. It a certain diffent way. A few years from now, I had some difficulties with other children, and it influenced a lot of my innerself.

With moon in Libra, I'm used to keep the peace, because I learned home. But moon in Libra is somebody that doesn't make desisions very easy. I need somebody in my life, so living alone is nothing for me. I need beauty and harmony. As a mother, I will be sweet to my children, but I don't allow fight or noise. And, above all, I have a dayjob in trying to divide my attention fair between the children, and between mother- and partnership. That is why I keep on beeing pretty.  :smt003 I could be arty. And, I will be a good actor.

Oh, and Joan of Arc had also her moon in Libra.
KISS IT!

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RoseRed

Post by Youdah » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:56 pm

RoseRed wrote: Thank you for explaining more of it!
I had no idea what the Angular, Succedant or Cadent meant, nor what fixed, mutable or cardinal means.
I don't even know what the respective elements mean other than what I 'came' up with in that exercise.
I had no information base to get any info on the respective headings so I took your advice and went to wiki. That is what they 'came' up with.
So thank you for explaining!
OK.  I guess I wasn't very clear.  Please allow me to try it again.  Also, this is the hardest part in the class.  Unfortunately, it comes at the beginning!  That would make it an Angular lesson.   :)

Before class began, we had some conversations about The Four Elements, Beginning-Middle-End, and Yin-Yang.  The reasons I posted these topics is because, by discussion, we covered The Triplicities, and Angular-Suceedant-Cadent.  These terms are important when talking about the Houses.

Triplicities = The Four Elements
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=56197

Angular = beginning
Suceedant = Middle
Cadent = end
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=56269

One thing I didn't discuss was the "cardinal, fixed, mutable."  
Cardinal = initiating, enterprising
Fixed = stability, unchanging
mutable = adaptable

I do encourage everyone to do reading, and to research different things in astrology as the interest hits you.  But, please, try not to do it for interpretations.  Once you get stuck following someone else's interpretation of something, before you have gotten the concepts, kinda defeats the purpose of learning to do it for yourself!  

Please follow along with your own chart.  I'll try to show you what I've been trying to say, by using only the things we have covered in class.  You haven't done anything wrong, it's just that I think you've been trying to make it more difficult than it is.  (KISS)  Using the chart at
http://geocities.com/youdah2/

-------------------->

5th House = pleasures, creativity, children, romance
    Fire Sign (the triplicity)
    Masculine
    Suceedant (middle of cycle)
    Fixed
   
Aquarius (because this is the Sun Sign on your 5th House cusp)  Friends, goals and hopes
    Air sign (the triplicity)
    Masculine
    Suceedant (middle of the cycle)
    Fixed

----------------------->

The things between the arrows is all that you need in order to do an interpretation (at this point in the class).  You don't need to look further on the internet to find more information, just what you know about these things so far.

So, when you look at these "keywords" is there anything that you see, or that the "keywords" remind you of?  I KNOW you have already "gotten it."  I know that you can do this without looking for more!  It is already inside YOU!  It is so very exciting to me to have someone to "talk to" about astrology, because you catch on so quickly!  The snag is that you aren't trusting your OWN WISDOM!   :smt008

What are some things that you have already said?  In the above, using your own natal chart, for example, what did you say happens when FIRE and AIR are mixed together?  

You said that the fire gets stronger (I'm paraphrasing, because I can't remember where you said it!).  So, could you say that the attributes of FIRE get stronger with the AIR combination?

So, what would someone expect to see in you?  With pleasures, things you consider FUN, you would be very enthusiastic and involved!  You would SHINE!  You would EXCELL!  

And, how are you approaching this class?  Well, exactly like your chart said you would!   :smt002  :smt003  :)

Use your own judgment, observations, and your own inner wisdom for interpretations!  (Not wiki).

Again, looking at the above keywords:

What comes to your mind if you blend masculine with masculine (yang and yang).  What happens to Yin when it isn't represented here?  What happens to all the Yang qualities?

What happens when you blend suceedant and suceedant (the middle of the cycle)?

What happens when you blend fixed and fixed?

Did that help?
Last edited by Youdah on Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Questions before I start

Post by Youdah » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:21 pm

RoseRed wrote: Lots of questions about things mentioned here:
Such as how do you get the age relation with the degrees.
And if you are about 22 already at the 8th degree then WOW! how old do ppl potentially reach too? hahahaha!!!
Again, using your own chart.  Let's look at the 5th House, because this is the House we're studying this week.

Your 5th House begins at Aquarius 23-degrees.  (You have to count each of the little hash-marks along the ring starting at the beginning of Aquarius that is in the 4th House.)

Each Sun SIGN (Aries, Aquarius, etc.) is always 30-degrees.  Houses can be a variable number of degrees.

30 degrees (for a sun sign) - 23 degrees = 7 (simple subtraction)

So, at the age of 7, you began to show more Pisces (the next sun sign) qualities in the 5th House.
RoseRed wrote: I like all the different ways of looking at it.
Kind of brings to mind the even though you were born a particular sign, you are in actual fact all the signs in one. And in order to be a fully well-rounded balanced and grounded person you have to integrate all the signs.
Bringing them all into ONE.
:)
This is actually an important part of astrology.  It is used for "progressions."  But, this is something we can talk about later.

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Re: Youdah

Post by Youdah » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:28 pm

Hoosiergal wrote:To get my chart into a .gif file I did this. Once the chart was generated, I did a print screen and copied it into MS Publisher. I played around with it until I got it to a larger size that made reading it easier. Then when I went to save it I selected Save As. Where it gives you the screen to name the file, below it is the drop down to the format you can Save As Type. The list contained GIF Graphics Interchange Format.
Does this help?

Sandi
Thanks!  I'll have to work with this.  The creator of the What Watch software said printing (and saving) was tricky with Windows.  So, I'll just have to fuss with it some more!

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Castitatis Lilium

Post by Youdah » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:56 pm

Castitatis Lilium wrote:So, my fifth house.
Your interpretations are great!   :smt007 I really appreciate that you're giving it a good go!  You are doing really great combining different keywords like "Libra" and "moon."  

Except, you're reading the 6th House, instead of the 5th House.  Don't use the position of the House to figure out which House it is.  Count counter-clockwise from the horizontal line, or the Ascendant, when the Houses aren't numbered for you.  If you are having trouble with this, please let me know so I can say it a different way that might be clearer.

You have a chart in which the Midheaven is really leaning to the right side of the page.  This is happening because you have some very skinny Houses 1-4.  Then, your 5th and 6th Houses are much wider, more degrees.  

This is the first chart posted like this, so it can be confusing to figure out the House numbers, especially when What Watch didn't number the Houses for you!

I am also going to repeat what I said to RoseRed (above post).  Use only the things we have covered so far in the class.  Look at the keywords at http://geocities.com/youdah2/ to find your interpretations.

Using your chart and the table at http://geocities.com/youdah2/

---------------->

5th House = pleasures, creativity, children, romance
   Fire Sign (the triplicity)
   Masculine
   Suceedant (middle of cycle)
   Fixed

Leo (because this is the SUN Sign on your 5th House cusp)
   Fire Sign (the triplicity)
   Masculine
   Suceedant (middle of cycle)
   Fixed

------------------>

Using only what we have talked about so far, what comes to your mind when you "blend" these things together?

You might notice that the Sun Sign on the cusp of the 5th House (Leo) is the SAME as the "ruler" of the 5th House!  This puts the Sun Sign Leo in its natural position!  What could this tell you about how you approach 5th House subjects of romance, pleasures, children, etc.?

The "ruler" of each House is the planet that is the same as "the Associated Planet" on the table at http://geocities.com/youdah2/  This planet is called the "ruler" (and sometimes you will see it called the "Lord") of that House.  When something is in the same position/place as its "rulership" it is in its "natural position."  It is most "comfortable and happy" here, because there is nothing that needs to be blended with it!  It is pure and unchanged when it is in its "natural position" or its "rulership."

Anyone, including Castitatis Lilium, what do you think would happen when anything in astrology is in its natural position, like Castitatis Lilium's 5th House?

[/i]

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Hoosiergal

Post by Youdah » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:10 pm

Hoosiergal wrote:Posted this in the wrong place the first time
Let's go over your 5th House, too!   :)

Using your natal chart and the table at http://geocities.com/youdah2/

--------------->

5th House = pleasures, creativity, children, romance
   Fire Sign (the triplicity)
   Masculine
   Suceedant (middle of cycle)
   Fixed (stable, and unchanging)

Capricorn (because this is the sun sign on your 5th House cusp).
Public Standing, reputation, career, aim in life, life goal, Father
    Earth sign (triplicity)
    Feminine
    Angular (beginning of a cycle)
    Cardinal (initiating and enterprising)

------------------------>

Does anything come to your mind when you blend fire and earth?

Does anything come to your mind when you blend masculine and feminine?  (is something creative or "complete" when yin and yang are combine?  Or do they "fight" against each other?)

Does anything come to your mind when you blend Suceedant (the middle of a cycle) with Angular (the beginning of a cycle?  Like, what happened to the end of a cycle?  Would that give you an idea of this combination?  Would something get started, but never reach the finish line...like a romance?)

You can find interpretations with the keywords that are there, but also what is not there!

Does anything come to mind if you blend something that is unchanging (Angular) AND something that wants to initiate something new? (Cardinal)  Would there be any difficulty with that?

Just using the keywords, and what we have learned so far, what kind of things comes to YOUR mind?
Last edited by Youdah on Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Youdah
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My chart

Post by Youdah » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:24 pm

I told you at the beginning of this thread that I had a 5th House Taurus.

Using that, and the table at http://geocities.com/youdah2/ here are the keywords for my 5th House using only what we have covered so far in class:

------------------>

5th House = pleasures, creativity, children, romance
   Fire Sign (the triplicity)
   Masculine
   Suceedant (middle of cycle)
   Fixed

Taurus (because this is the sun sign on my 5th House cusp) Possessions, Money
    Earth Sign (the triplicity)
    Feminine
    Suceedant (middle of the cycle)
    Fixed

------------------->

What happens when fire and earth are blended?
What happens when yin (feminine) and yang (masculine) are blended?
What happens when suceedant and suceedant are blended?
What happens when fixed and fixed are blended?

Hoosiergal
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Re: Hoosiergal

Post by Hoosiergal » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:26 am

Let's go over your 5th House, too!   :)

Using your natal chart and the table at http://geocities.com/youdah2/

--------------->

5th House = pleasures, creativity, children, romance
   Fire Sign (the triplicity)
   Masculine
   Suceedant (middle of cycle)
   Fixed (stable, and unchanging)

Capricorn (because this is the sun sign on your 5th House cusp).
Public Standing, reputation, career, aim in life, life goal, Father
    Earth sign (triplicity)
    Feminine
    Angular (beginning of a cycle)
    Cardinal (initiating and enterprising)

------------------------>

Does anything come to your mind when you blend fire and earth? my stability (earth) would tend to temper my initiative (fire).  

Does anything come to your mind when you blend masculine and feminine?  (is something creative or "complete" when yin and yang are combine?  Or do they "fight" against each other?) Nothing comes to mind about this one.

Does anything come to your mind when you blend Suceedant (the middle of a cycle) with Angular (the beginning of a cycle?  Like, what happened to the end of a cycle?  Would that give you an idea of this combination?  Would something get started, but never reach the finish line...like a romance?) I tend to start things and never finish them. This is true.

You can find interpretations with the keywords that are there, but also what is not there!

Does anything come to mind if you blend something that is unchanging (Angular) AND something that wants to initiate something new? (Cardinal)  Would there be any difficulty with that? I'm torn when I want to try something new, yet want the comfort of what I know.

Just using the keywords, and what we have learned so far, what kind of things comes to YOUR mind?[/quote][/b]

My answers are in bold

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Hoosiergal

Post by Youdah » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:23 am

Hoosiergal, YES!  YES!  YES!

Now, you're getting it!


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Re: Youdah

Post by Naomiel » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:17 pm

Hoosiergal wrote:To get my chart into a .gif file I did this. Once the chart was generated, I did a print screen and copied it into MS Publisher. I played around with it until I got it to a larger size that made reading it easier. Then when I went to save it I selected Save As. Where it gives you the screen to name the file, below it is the drop down to the format you can Save As Type. The list contained GIF Graphics Interchange Format.
Does this help?

Sandi
I tried that withth 'print' next to the wheel.... cant find any other way to?? very confused
Naomi

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