LESSON 3.1 Moon, Cancer, 4th House, Part 1

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RoseRed
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My 4th House Things

Post by RoseRed » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:24 am

Okay I really seem to have gotten into the whole key word thing so I am going to run with it, as it makes pretty good sense to my brain :)

prenatal period
childhood period
old age period/ final resting place ie grave?
end of life
domestic affairs or conditions
nurturing parent
father or same sex parent
how you experienced your father or same sex parent
the caretaker of the household
'home'    -     means diff things to diff ppl
family life
fullness of experience - the body or the meat of it
extent to which the body develops its limits
development has reached its physical peak - can go no further
    hence feel/move within the experience
family orientation        -     when someone is sentimental about their home, the 'sentimentality' is of the 4th house
ability to dig into the past and discover your roots
ancestry
heritage
roots
angular - starts a new series of 3
early foundation and environment (nature and outdoors)
strong need to feel a sense of continuity with the good things from the past - "the good ol days"
potential interest in antiques, old houses and geneology - "all things old"
need for stable and dependable personal roots ???
the actual physical structure of the 'home' (walls, roof, floors) and NOT the extra, philosophical meaning.
'development'/ early development
imim coeli

--> Side Note:  Moon strong by night - also the position of the planet in this house - Planet strong by night and when there is some trouble (Jupiter gets exalted here ????????????)

Some references:
http://www.claytentylor.com/astronotes4.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/inhouses.html
http://www.astrograph.com/learning-astr ... spects.php
http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/1373
http://www.astrolozy.com/lalkitab2.htm


(oh and my 4th House is Capricorn -little bit of Capricorn (3 degrees) and majority of Aquarius (23 degrees)) ????

Thats actually a question Youdah - how do you count it properly, the amount a certain sign has in the respective house, when I look at my chart I see that the 4th house intersection is at Cap, but only at the end of cap, so I counted that it was 3 degrees away from being Aqu.
And then I looked at how many degrees there was in Aqu and I counted 23 dregrees or 30 - 7.
Now this is where the prob comes in...isn't it meant to count up to 30 degrees each house? What am I missing? Its prob going to be so simple...sigh...
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Discussions

Post by RoseRed » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:42 am

soulsearch wrote: wrote: A child who knows that he can walk in to his home anytime is the one who is the happiest irrespective of the degrees he acquires .A husband who knows that after gruelling working hours his wife waits for him is the most satisfied irrespective of the job pressures. A woman who works late hours and knows that her children are safe in the house with their father is the one who is satisfied.An aging parent who puts his head on his mother lap is the one who is at peace.
Even if not strictly correct in the sense of the 4th house  :smt002 - I really enjoyed reading this...got this nice warm and inspiration type feeling.
Youdah wrote: Something we haven't talked about in very much detail yet is the sequence of different Angular, Suceedant, and Cadent Houses.  The 4th House is the second Angular House.  The first Angular house is the 1st House.  Since it is the second in the series of Angular houses, it is not the true beginning, but only the beginning of the second cycle of beginnings.  (I hope that doesn't sound too confusing!)  So, the 4th House is not the first personality of personality development.  The first personality development is represented by the 1st House, realizing the "I am" concept, the sense of self.  Then, the personality develops by learning his relationship within the home...the 4th House, etc.
interesting!
Kinda reminds me of the root chakra descrip done by Caroline Myss, saying that your root chakra is your tribal chakra - you don't really have a choice about it, when you are born into your 'tribe' you learn all their ways and behaviour... how to be apart of that particular tribe successfully, then as you get older you will break away from that tribe and create your own but that is another chakra, I actually think its your heart....
Youdah wrote:In general, one wouldn't group together "home of childhood" and "home as an adult" and a "final resting place!"  Yet, in astrology, they are all ruled by the 4th House.  Does anyone have an idea why this should be so?  Any relationships between these "homes," so to speak?  Could the relationship between all these places be where we spend our time, where our body is "housed" during the respective periods of life?  
could it be that Home is where the body is? hahahaha!!
I mean that is not really that far off from some spiritual beliefs as they say that your body is the temple, in response to ppl saying why don’t you go to Church, Mosque, etc. Those are just buildings, your body is the place where you can find all your needs and answers and that you carry your temple around with you each and every single day. You don't need to go somewhere in order to give your thanx and to say your prayers etc.
So that could be also that you carry your home around with you, kinda like a tortoise!!! hahaha
And going with what Naomiel mentioned which I actually didn’t think about was that we carry our past (in this case our roots - childhood), our present (adulthood) and our future (in this case our final resting place – our ‘maturity’ hood. heehee) with us at all times, we are each of those ages at all times. They are not separate, we are the child the adult and the mature adult at all times and have access to all that info at all times. ??
Yes my brain has officially gone on a tangent... :smt003
the 4th House would not indicate relationships with siblings, friends, spouses, etc.
so is it only with the parents, the mother and the father figures?
Okay when I read further then I saw that is is more the role of “father” “Mother” in that person’s life – does not have to be biological.

and then it came up again in
Youdah wrote: In that sense, it is a kind of "partnership," a metaphorical "dance," so to speak.  A "partner" doesn't have to be a formalized "partnership" such as in a contract or marriage (although those are also ruled by 7th), any kind of a relationship where another is involved in some act, goal, relationship (except siblings, friends, neighbors, etc.) would always be 7th H.
???
why not "siblings, friends, neighbors, etc."
Youdah wrote:I understand.  Yet, consider that not all people are taught religion in the home...  Separate the "ideal" and the "philosophical" home from the actual and the reality of it.  The reality of it is going to be the 4th H.  The "home" that is ruled by the 4th House can be a thing or place, as well as the "ideal."  I think you are only seeing the "ideal" of home, not all of the possibilities of what "home" can mean...structures, places, things, places of abuse, in addition to the "ideal."
I think this brings up a discussion we all should have as an extra topic, “What do you call home?” “What is home for you?”
Cause after reading Youdah’s post, it looks like home in the 4th house needs to get one of my '' around it as I do with all words that are completely relative. It depends, not black and white, completely intertwined with subjectivity.
So what I understand by this is that 'home', could be the actual place you grew up or it could be the group of friends that you used to visit, a certain spot on the beach, talking to a particular teacher, a place that was ‘home’…to you.  And the reality of that, not the extra, philosophical meaning.

Note--> Home, the things that houses us.
Keeps us 'safe' in a sense, (that brings a little of the moon descrip into it.) hummm
(cause 'safe' is an entirely relative word too, means different things to different ppl)
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Re: My 4th House Things

Post by astrologer50 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:38 pm

RoseRed wrote:Okay I really seem to have gotten into the whole key word thing so I am going to run with it, as it makes pretty good sense to my brain :)

prenatal period
childhood period
old age period/ final resting place ie grave?
end of life
domestic affairs or conditions
nurturing parent
father or same sex parent
how you experienced your father or same sex parent
the caretaker of the household
'home'    -     means diff things to diff ppl
family life
fullness of experience - the body or the meat of it
extent to which the body develops its limits
development has reached its physical peak - can go no further
    hence feel/move within the experience
family orientation        -     when someone is sentimental about their home, the 'sentimentality' is of the 4th house
ability to dig into the past and discover your roots
ancestry
heritage
roots
angular - starts a new series of 3
early foundation and environment (nature and outdoors)
strong need to feel a sense of continuity with the good things from the past - "the good ol days"
potential interest in antiques, old houses and geneology - "all things old"
need for stable and dependable personal roots ???
the actual physical structure of the 'home' (walls, roof, floors) and NOT the extra, philosophical meaning.
'development'/ early development
imim coeli

--> Side Note:  Moon strong by night - also the position of the planet in this house - Planet strong by night and when there is some trouble (Jupiter gets exalted here ????????????)

Some references:
http://www.claytentylor.com/astronotes4.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/inhouses.html
http://www.astrograph.com/learning-astr ... spects.php
http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/1373
http://www.astrolozy.com/lalkitab2.htm


(oh and my 4th House is Capricorn -little bit of Capricorn (3 degrees) and majority of Aquarius (23 degrees)) ????

Thats actually a question Youdah - how do you count it properly, the amount a certain sign has in the respective house, when I look at my chart I see that the 4th house intersection is at Cap, but only at the end of cap, so I counted that it was 3 degrees away from being Aqu.
And then I looked at how many degrees there was in Aqu and I counted 23 dregrees or 30 - 7.
Now this is where the prob comes in...isn't it meant to count up to 30 degrees each house? What am I missing? Its prob going to be so simple...sigh...
Well its much much simplier if you use EQUAL house system, for natal chart analysis, that way their is no confusion, misunderstandings whatsoever. Even if 1' ruler of cusp rules that house, then it rules that house, end of....

Too much emphasis is put on the ruler of house being in different house, that's too advanced stuff. Again, just stick to basics, baby steps....

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Post by astrologer50 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:40 pm

Youdah wrote:
soulsearch wrote: Home is where the heart is.
Isint the heart connected to the fourth house? I read that somewhere.
The "heart" would be a 4th House subject as it relates to emotions!  But, as the physical heart, that thing pumping in  the chest, it is ruled by the 5th.
soulsearch wrote: Why do we attribute peace to the 7th house? Is it because it is the 12th to the 8th?? and 7th becomes the fourth from the 4th ???
You are referring to the derivative house systems "7th becomes fourth from the 4th," and etc.  But, that's not why the 7th rules "peace." Although a person can feel peaceful (4th H.) by  him/herself, to have peace with another -- whether it be an individual or country -- you have to have someone else, at least one other person (or country, or whatever).  In that sense, it is a kind of "partnership," a metaphorical "dance," so to speak.  A "partner" doesn't have to be a formalized "partnership" such as in a contract or marriage (although those are also ruled by 7th), any kind of a relationship where another is involved in some act, goal, relationship (except siblings, friends, neighbors, etc.) would always be 7th H.  Peacefulness (the verb) is ruled by the 4th House, but peace, the noun, is ruled by the 7th house.

Interestingly, "open war" and "open enemies" are also represented by the 7th H.  Within the same house, partnerships of peace, and open warfare with that partner are both indicated there....as well as marriage and divorce.  (But, we'll get to the 7th House more later).  I mention it now, so you can see why "peace" is not 4th House.
soulsearch wrote:My thinking was because parents are our first teachers they shape our personality and Home is where our basic learning takes place...and somehow however good/bad/strained our relationship is with our parents we do love them unconditionally. I understand in the earthy realities it might not be so and everyone has had a different experience with the home.
Perhaps it would be easier to differentiate father and mother as purely a biological function?  Someone can "father" or "mother" a child, but have no roles in the child's life as you describe here.  Although mothering and "fathering" are part of the 4th House, you're getting stuck on the "ideal" of loving parents unconditionally, or loving children unconditionally.  The "ideal" of unconditional love is represented in the 12th H., where the reality of what the person actually experienced is going to be seen in the 4th H.  That doesn't mean that there is never unconditional love in the 4th H., but that would be seen by planets and transits, not by the 4th House by itself.

soulsearch wrote: So why is unconditional love related to the 12th?
In western astrology, there are some cultural correspondences.  The 12th House has been likened to the love of Christ and God who loves His children unconditionally.  Without cultural biases, the same idea remains in the 12th H.  It is a kind of love that is almost unworldly, perfect, and unconditional.  A parent may "love" their children, but that isn't necessarily the 4th House, only the emotion of "love" would be 4th, along with every other emotion.  The actual relationship between that parent and the child is seen by other Houses, transits, and planets in both natal charts.  The 4th H. is going to be more the physical structure, the building with walls, roof, and floor...and the emotions there can be anything from love to hate, and anything in between, including disinterest or apathy.  

The idea of "home" in the philosophical sense, and I think this is where you are not seeing the difference, or rather the additional meanings of the 4th house, would be determined by other Houses, planets, aspects, and transits, not just the 4th H.
soulsearch wrote: What I meant was religion that has passed on from a home.Most of the religion is learnt at home.But I have read about religion/father/higher is of the 9th House.
I understand.  Yet, consider that not all people are taught religion in the home...  Separate the "ideal" and the "philosophical" home from the actual and the reality of it.  The reality of it is going to be the 4th H.  The "home" that is ruled by the 4th House can be a thing or place, as well as the "ideal."  I think you are only seeing the "ideal" of home, not all of the possibilities of what "home" can mean...structures, places, things, places of abuse, in addition to the "ideal."
soulsearch wrote:No its not confusing...yes I agree with personality being indicated by the first but wouldnt 'development' be indicated by the fourth.
Of course.  Development can be indicated in the 4th.  Yet, in your original post, you said it was the first place of development, and that isn't accurate.

Please keep asking, if I haven't been able to express myself clearly.  :)
Bad misinterpretation of 7th House of Libra cos its ALL about Balance, equality NOT peace with others, its how you interact with a 'significant other' or business partners on one to one basis. In fact Libra can be quite arguementative, so where's the peace there?? there is none, bad choice of words!!.... :smt004

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Post by astrologer50 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:42 pm

Youdah wrote:
soulsearch wrote:Thank you so much for your response.I guess I need to work on my communication :)

The 4th House will rule things and places of home, houses, real estate (not just the "idea" or "ideal" of a "home.")

All makes complete sense and I will remember that :). However I couldnt understand *peace the noun* and that too for the 7th house when it indicates open enemies. But I will wait for the future lessons.

Reg
I've had to try to think of another way to explain why "peace" is 7th House.  I think I've finally figured out how to explain it.

Peace within yourself, is 4th House.

Peace with others, is 7th House.

Does that help?
No sorry it doesnt, cos peace is completely wrong word to use when describing 7th house matters. How can you achieve peace with an arguementative Libran? its ALL about balance with signficant others, whether business or marriage .....

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Post by astrologer50 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:46 pm

Fourth House: Home, family, security
The fourth is where we send down roots, find our limits, and generally secure ourselves. It is the end of any searching we might have done in the third house. Here we find or end our search, settle down, and manage to get in possession of the whole situation. This is our home and the base from which we can work, feel, and experience. This is the root of our experience, the core or thick of it.
:smt003

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