Payewacker's Tarot - How much do you want to learn?

cedars · Post by **cedars** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:15 pm

Payewacker.....

Too many cooks spoil the broth?

No... best one person handles and the rest of us discuss things.

Payewacker · Post by **Payewacker** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:35 pm

Hi Cedars,

Yes, you are so right. That's why I rather protect the docs, and we chat, then if need be, I can add or remove.

Blessed be.

Payewacker · Post by **Payewacker** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:50 pm

Payewacker · Post by **Payewacker** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:27 pm

Payewacker · Post by **Payewacker** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:36 am

To follow all the topics we discuss, please follow this link/u];
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=67787

Hi Cedars, Pirbid and all other readers on this forum.

I just got a thought with regard to interpritations you use on your readings. We know, that in each spread it would differ, but ultimately you still have a set of basic interpritations or principles you base your readings and views on.

I wondered if it is acceptable to you, for me to collect all these interpritations in a seperate folder, dedicated to each reader, and specifically each card, and dicussions or replies on each topic. This will also give a lot of guidance for all of us.

These interpritations, of each reader, compiled. May allow an interpritation, which could be seen as part and parcell of MB.

Blessed be.

pirbid · Post by **pirbid** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:14 pm

Yep, sounds good. But I warn you mine are hard to define: I keep compiling meanings I resonate with whenever I visit a site, or even from your readings on the board. Then, I use reversals as well. And finally, you will see the same card interpreted by me in very different ways depending on context. Don't you all do the same? In other words, my meanings are always evolving, and I would have a hard time pinning them down, although without a specific reading I can usually define each card with just one word or sentence.

BTW, these days I am realizing just how much my Tarot knowledge and confidence have increased since I visit this site. I can hardly recognize my own past readings! And I owe it all to you and every reader that has generously shared views, and to all those passionate intellectuals like you and George who make the more lazy of us pay attention to detail, symbols, colors, astrological connections...

So yes, I can make an effort to close my eyes and tell you what comes to mind more readily when looking at each card, even though I might answer differently tomorrow. Is that good enough? Otherwise I could have right issues, since most meanings are somewhere written and compiled already. In this same forum, actually.

My warmest thanks to all Tarot readers and seekers who keep teaching me something new each single day I visit.

 :smt023  :smt060

AyeCantSeeYou · Post by **AyeCantSeeYou** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:16 pm

Depending on what the reading is on and the placement of the cards, I can see one card having many different meanings. It may be hard to define meanings for one card based on all readings. Some of what is brought out in one situation won't apply to another. I hope this makes sense. (It's hard to explain!!!)

cedars · Post by **cedars** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:17 pm

It makes very much sense and my thoughts are exactly the same. We just cannot generalise those other meanings as being part of the general meaning of the cards.

Payewacker · Post by **Payewacker** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:28 pm

Hi Guys.

The intention is to derive at a general set of meanings, pointers to symbolism, associations to other cards. This is to establish a interpritation which is ever-evolving, although being  part of single thread of thought. I agree full-heartedly that we never can pinpoint a certain influence, but we can develop a regiment of interpritations, to assist and guide all of us. These interpritations and how it's applied to certain events, is a "directory" or point of referance only.

When we look at the suit of Swords, not only does it resemble the higher "Aristocracy", but also play an important role in the intellectual abilities of a person. In this sense we can truly see each suit as a reflection of a certain personal point of view, and how it may be influenced, or accepted and  perhaps rejected, by a querant.

If we look at the overall symbolism in the cards, the involvement of the Court Cards and the impact of the Major Arcanum Cards, how can we establish links to individual cards, if we don't discuss, and give guidance to each other?

Blessed be.

Blessed be

pirbid · Post by **pirbid** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:53 pm

I enjoy even these discussions about 'to do or not to do', we all seem so different...

I love to experiment, so I'm all for trying and, if it doesn't work, then go on to something else. However, I thought we were already into it, with the Aces, Twos, Threes discussions and their links to the Majors. I believe it is not so much about giving meanings that can be standardized, but what each card brings to mind immediately on its own, out of a reading context, like the Empress fertility and good natured abundance, or the Hermit's loneliness... I guess the interesting thing here would be to find out how each card makes a different impact on each reader, since PW will be looking for certain signs and links, I will be trying to 'feel' the image, Cedars will try to get the best possible meaning out of each (I'm just making this up, it's a hypothesis).

Of course, these meanings would probably not be fitting in a reading (or not all readings), but reading meanings are written everywhere, we don't need to give any more of those, really. I just want to play with the cards!

Um, let's see if I can express my idea more clearly: I believe what PW is proposing would help establish a closer intimacy with each card by making us think on it and its links to all the rest. For people reading these associations, it should help them to 'get to know' each card as if meeting a person. It's hard to remember names, ages, jobs and other boring data like that when meeting people unless you have a bit more juicy personal info as well. That is what I propose for the cards: just getting to know them better, so they will speak to us more easily when reading, and can give us the specific meanings needed in each spread.

I believe the more you feel the cards talking to you, the easier it is to give a reading. Of course, some have an advantage with their psychic input so that they begin to feel things before even looking at the cards. But for me it's a great help to have discussions on each. And there is no need to reach an 'acceptable' conclusion. We are just exchanging opinions, as far as I'm concerned.

Of course no one has to do it if they don't feel like it. I personally think we could use the info we are putting into the open thread's discussions, no need to do anything special. It all depends how you compile the info later and what you use it for: each will adapt it to their own uses, I suppose.

My two pennies worth  :smt002

Payewacker · Post by **Payewacker** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:08 am

Hi Guys,

I don't see that I did a discussion on Beth, or opebned a thread on that, so let me get stuck in doing it. I will also now work on my CC template in order for us to be "free Willy"

Blessed be.

Payewacker · Post by **Payewacker** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:58 pm

For all the topics we are discussing, go to this link;

http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=67787

Blessed be.

Payewacker · Post by **Payewacker** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:54 pm

To follow all the discussions and Topics, go to this link

http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=67787

BETH

Beth (2), can be seen as the primary seperator, or container or physical support. It can be seen as the division between that which is contained and that wich is not. In Beth we move into the material, wherby it is the primary act of conciousness, recognising itself. In the Biological process we see it as Abstract Cell energy. We see a clear contrast between Aleph (infinite, unknownable) and Beth. In thinking about Beth, we create Beths of thought, the logical place where we realize Aleph. Beth can be seen as a roadsign, but we cannot think arbitrarily, with these signs pointing to the material world. Our minds should think non-arbitrary, and in Semantic generalities.

“Beth is not any of our Beths about Beth, such as container, matter, duality, separation, division. It is the Beth-ness of all those specific qualifications, across the entire range of structuration of matter and consciousness. Similarly, as we encounter each letter, Ghimel is not our Beth of Ghimel, but a sign for a completely generalized abstract organizational principle underlying all our Beths of motion, movement, change, interchange and relationship. In fact, Ghimmel is not in our Beths at all, but rather in the movement of our Beths animated by Aleph, of which we have no Beth (thought) at all.”

Having a new way of thinking, we learned to “Beth” in the most or broader spectrum of structure as opposed to specific objects.

Arbitrariness :
The absence of any degree of necessity between the signified and signifier of a sign. Makes the sign symbolic. For example, in English we say "bachelor" to refer to an unmarried man, but since we might just as well say "foobar", therefore "bachelor" is a symbol.
Principia Cybernetica: Semiotic Terms: Arbitrariness

In Hebrew, both Beth the letter and Beth the word, both spelled Beth-Yod-Tav, mean house. Beth, in formative semantics (a phrase for our non-arbitrary language) means an abstract, generalized container, the "houseness" of house. Beth is the container for the uncontainable, Aleph; in its most generalized sense it is Beth-El (Bethel), the Beth of Aleph, or the "house" of Aleph-Lammed, "God:" Beth-Yod-Tav -- Aleph-Lammed-(Phay).

Each letter of the Hebrew alphabet, in addition to signifying a basic creative energy or fundamental power, is itself spelled by the letters of the same alphabet of basic energies. This means that the letters are self-defining and self-signifying when their basic (generalized) meanings are understood. Each letter has an inner structure of its own and in half the cases, a role in the spelling and meaning of the other letters.

It is a trivial task to assign abstract meaning to twenty-two letters. It is much more difficult to spell those letters with meanings from the other letters in a consistent and coherent way, and account for their positions in a logical array of meaning. If the initial meanings are arbitrary, the system will fail as a language.

“Beth (2): Everything that exists is the conditioning of life and the life of the conditioning. Everything that is exists both internally and externally. Each germ of life has an envelope, which derives its movement from the great cosmic force of resistance to the life which is surging up from within (If the shell does not offer the right measure of resistance, the chicken will not hatch.) This whole duality of existence -- and of our own thought -- is conveyed by no. 2.

Suares, The Cipher of Genesis, p.65”

Blessed be.

Payewacker · Post by **Payewacker** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:34 am

To view all the topics under discussion, follow this link;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=67787

We have commenced discussions on the Celtic Cross. The discussions are expansions on each card placement.

Main Tutorial;

http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgtkr639_162hkm2jqds

Celtic Cross Position 1:

http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgtkr639_160dfz9tmf8

The discussions are done on this thread:

http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=68173

Celtic Cross Position 2:

http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgtkr639_163dhnmgwgq

The discussions are done on this thread:

http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 491#263491

Blessed be.

pirbid · Post by **pirbid** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:31 am

I'm listing both the google links to each position and the discussion threads. If you feel those are too many, I can leave the google out, but I guess we might as well list both for each. That way we get to all the relevant info in a hurry.  :smt002

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