Payewacker's Tarot - How much do you want to learn?

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Payewacker
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Post by Payewacker » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:55 pm

To follow the discussions contained in this thread, go to this link;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 486#259486

Hi Guys,

Cassie, we all know Crowley was, don't know, but how can we explain the man, maybe a Merlin in disguise? I will host an Article I wrote on Merlin, two years ago as well. He was also a bit to many where it should have been a "handfull" Especially looking at a beautifull card, Pirbid hosted.

Merlin the Great:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... tkZA&hl=en

Pirbid, how about adding it? You remember the Cups and Octo-----man?

Magicians need not be like an African Daizy? Flower up the a+++++++? I didn't say anything? :smt002

But, now we also need to have a look at Salvador Dali? He was also mhmhh. I had art theory as subject, and be sure, maybe he and Crowley shared the same "crow's nest". He designed a Tarot deck, but I haven't even thought of looking at it. Well now I have a reason to do it?

Yes, the book of Thoth was not a deck, and the deck was only thought of much later, I wonder which fuse blew there. The poor artist, she was extremely patient. If anything the rendition, or preferred "fashion statement" of Crowley on his "most famous" photo, is SCARY, by most definitions! Maybe here i'm walking on ice, because let's face it, he has "admirers" I have my planet, but he had a few which he occasionally visited! This is my view!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The rest were in "transit". I'm talking shit, just to entertain you!

The main motivation for me to study the Tarot, is that I unfortunately have to be physically "stagnant", for most of my time now! This just get's my brain working overtime at the oddest hours. Not only that, there is much more, behind Tarot, than we think.

Cassie, yes, Tarot started out as an ordinary card game, as I understand, much like Poker. Then it was adopted into the occult by Alliette and other French Occultist. We also find from there the creation of the Swiss Tarot. At a stage, all card games were totally banned, because, "Tarrochi" became a method of divination, and the High Priestess was actually the Papess-which was "blasphemy!! Therefore we also find the "gypsy" link, and the obscure or secretive, if I may call it so, attraction. Here we find the link between the Knight's Templar and the Freemasons. Then also the Golden Dawn, Alchemy and Hermitisicm.

Don't stress, I enjoy doing what I do. To share my knowledge is great! Even if the info only goes into a "databank", that's fine, I shared with all my fellow readers, a great gift! I permanently "Tarotise"

Blessed be.
Last edited by Payewacker on Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pirbid
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Post by pirbid » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:11 pm

Payewacker wrote: Pirbid, how about adding it? You remember the Cups and Octo-----man?

Magicians need not be like an African Daizy? Flower up the a+++++++? I didn't say anything? :smt002

But, now we also need to have a look at Salvador Dali? He was also mhmhh. I had art theory as subject, and be sure, maybe he and Crowley shared the same "crow's nest". He designed a Tarot deck, but I haven't even thought of looking at it. Well now I have a reason to do it?

Blessed be.
There you are, here is your beautiful octopussy  :smt003
Image

BTW, I used to have Salvador Dali's Majors, but I gave them away about a thousand years ago. Not very interesting from a tarotist's point of view, just for his fans  :smt002
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)

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cedars
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Post by cedars » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:13 pm

This is nice though... don't tell me it is from the Legacy.........!!

Damn..... why do they look better when you post them and not when I am ACTUALLY in the shop looking at the cards LIVE in my hands? I just went to London today and looked at the Legacy cards in my own hands!!!!!!

Oh, well......

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Post by pirbid » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:37 pm

:) Awww, Cedars... You can hardly expect them to have the charm I have already instilled in my deck, can you?

Anyway, since I am now using it for the spreads I post here, you will keep seeing new cards and how I interpret them. You will have plenty of time to grow familiar with it. Who's pressing you to buy it? Just enjoy!  :smt003
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)

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cedars
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Post by cedars » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:38 pm

Bless :)

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Post by Payewacker » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:54 pm

To follow the discussions contained in this thread, go to this link;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 486#259486

THX Pirbid.

WHOOWHOO, said the Queen to the sausage---------dog. :smt004

Hi Cedars,

Was it perhaps---"My Cup took a gallop..." or just a handfull :smt003

Luv U

Ps, You just put your foot in it everytime!!  :smt008

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Post by Payewacker » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:29 pm

I have to edit this posting dramatically. In this sense we have contradictions, which need to be resolved. This is directly incurred by the associations of the Major's to the Kaballah and Tree of life.

Hi Cedars,

I was just paging through this thread to see where we started, and where we are now.

I read your reply on the Seven of Swords, and the burglary your Querant experienced. You indicated that the card is all yellow--bravery. Yes, I think it is needed to be brave to be a con artist, thief or fraudster.

This card being number seven, is also indicative of the nature of each person? In all of us we find a bad side, fraudster, lier or thief?

But look at it's association with the Chariot. It is by active "self-control" that we are able to contain our bad side, or habits, we wish to keep secret? It's a matter of Conquering our negative, to incorporate it as a positive action in our lives, bringing them together, in order to have some balance?

I want to use this as an example when we look at the archetypal, existential and cosmic levels of seven.

We have:

Archetypal-----7, the Chariot,
Existential-----70, the Tower,
Cosmic--------700, Temperance.

Cedars, I really need your help here, with the Aramaic or Hebrew letters or the names of the different Sephiroh. I don't know, if we are able to translate the names of the Sephira into English, or a basic description?

Cassie, can you help us to understand how, we can see the Majors as strictly Archetypal, when we have a very clear definition in numeric sequences and finals in the Hebrew alphabet? Particularly when we see that the alphabet is not strictly linked to meanings, but more "points of referance or threads of energy" This I quote directly from the Revived Quaballah, I don't want to strictly say that the Major Arcanum Cards has to be linked to the Kaballah, but they are and it was done by Waite and for that reason every other Tarot Scholar, or was it done even before they considered Hermiticism as a structured doctrine?

The linking of the cards to the Kaballah, is still not clear, and would probably never be, because of conflicting views in the Tarotists, designing our System of Divination, as we have today. But, we can discuss these matters, to have a clearer understanding of their motivations.

In this discussion now,

MY PERSONAL THEORY:

As the Fool is an unnumbered card, and if we look at AE Waite, he placed it between Judgement and the World. The Fool was also not attributed number 1 by A. Crowley, Initially or sebsequently perhaps.

I attribute the Magician to Aleph, being the creator and not a wild-card as the Fool. Should we link the Fool to Aleph, we see that all the other Majors are totally wrong, or not numbered as should be, displayed by the decks.

I want to quote Rabbi Abraham Abulafia, in an excerpt from Otzar Eden Haganuz.

"Write each expression down immediately. Manipulate the letters, and seek out the words having the same Numeric value....And know that this will be your key to open the fifty gates of wisdom..."

Blessed be.

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Post by Payewacker » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:20 am

To follow the discussions contained in this thread, go to this link;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 486#259486


Hi Rhuto, Pirbid, Suzisco.

It seems as if we have started a "Tarot" course, in this thread. Fortunately we haven't moved to far down the Hebrew alphabet as yet.

I may as well keep going and do it.

However all my card interpritations are on Word documents. I will host these on Google docs.

What are you thoughts on this?

Blessed be.

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Post by cedars » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:45 am

Hi all,

In my humble opinion, I think the Hebrew alphabet, Kaballah and so on is becoming daunting to the newcomers who want to learn the tarot as a divination tool. As interesting as some of these postings are, they do sometimes frighten those members (including some of us here too) and hence we get people who perhaps would like to take part in these discussions, but cannot, due to the intensity of these topics. I know one would argue that we have already done the card meanings and so on, but we seem to be jumping from one topic to the other, with all respect to all the contributors.

Moreover, the Learn Tarot forum is virtually empty. How about starting these topics in that forum?
How about when we talk one topic, let's stick to that topic without getting side tracked into something else?

Cassie suggested the Fool's Journey. I think that is a great one to start whilst at the same time introducing the newcomers to the tarot and to learn about their very journey on the tarot path. We can only try.

Let us not make a mish-mash of astrology, numerology, hermeticism, Kaballah and whatever else in one pot of discussions.

I say this in a most open mind to learn more and also to absorb some of the knowledge of our respected members here.

Let us continue...

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Post by pirbid » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:05 am

:) I have to agree with Cedars here.
PW, keep this thread on the kabala by all means and develop it for all those who have shown an interest and can give their take on it, but you must really give a break to newcomers! I'm sure you don't expect them to start the Tarot house by the roof...

Let's see if we can move some of the more basic discussions to the Learn forum. I meant to do something to attract newcomers there, I just haven't had the time with our high season work. So I am grateful for Cedar's suggestion: start a thread on the Fool's journey through the Majors, which are the first lesson in Tarot, anyway.

Have to run -again!-. Catch you all later  :)
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)

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Post by Payewacker » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:17 pm

Hi Guys,

I agree with both your views. Cedars, the "Learn Tarot" forum is empty, specifically, because it's called "Learn Tarot". When at first I "met" MB, i did not go to "Learn Tarot", no, no. I had my book, and that is where I started. I was more pre-occupied with the discussions on the "Tarot, and Tarot reading" forums.  

That is exactly why, I want to keep each subject on it's own thread, but contained in one thread as "Index".

Looking at the Fool's journey, he negotiates his way all the way up to the World card. But, he transcend from one to the next card, until attainment. We discuss his path in one thread, but in the "How much do you want to learn". The move from "himself" to the Magician and each other card, has it's own link, although its discussed in a totally separate thread.

Looking at a Tarot "workshop" or tutorial, is like having a look through a handbook. Every person has a specific area of interest.

Ok, so we move this to "Learn Tarot", and find that readers, who may have been reading for 5 years, and be aspiring members, will not go to that forum at all! Why should they? Yet, we discuss topics, which will draw their attention and curiosity?

This is exactly why I considered this thread to remain where it is. My posting on making this a "tutorial" on it's own, was particularly considering that we have active readers, joining our ranks. Also for students!

As I pointed out, it is fortunate that we did not go beyond Aleph as yet.

My proposed way forward, was to host the cards and their interpritations on Google and then have the discussions on the open forum, where students and accomplished readers alike, may participate.

Thus, as we are discussing the Fool and his journey, we complete our discussion on him. Then continue to the Magician and Aces. But Indexed on one page? The "structure" is perhaps to be changed, but that we do as we go along!

I don't even really know how to glue this together, but as the "learn Tarot" forum has no support, why should we refrain from continuing this thread?

This is only my view, and I don't think I will insist, after all, consideration must be given to all the members.

Blessed be.
Do as you want, Harm none!

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cedars
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Post by cedars » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:30 pm

Fair comment Payewacker.. In a way I agree with you that the Learn Tarot forum has no support.


The general Tarot forum is the right place for it as we have already started.
I wish MB would make life a bit easier by allowing attachments in Word and Excel formats...........???????

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Post by Payewacker » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:45 pm

Hi Cedars,

Thanx for your support.

Blessed be
Do as you want, Harm none!

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Post by Payewacker » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:18 pm

Hi Guys,

I thought, to make it easier to find the links, is perhaps to refresh, and host them more frequent. To page through 10 pages, hoping to get to the links may be a bit much?

The links to the different postings and tutorials contain the same information, but sometimes, I get a bit lost!
So let me list the individual links as well.

Page 10;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 486#259486

Page 18;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 125#261125

THE ORIGINAL PURPOSE OF TAROT IS SAID TO BE A MERE CARD GAME. THE FOLLOWING LINKS ARE TO THE GAMING RULES:

CREGO AND FRENCH TAROT;

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... ZncA&hl=en

SOMETHING INTERESTING ABOUT A VERY OLD GUY CALLED MERLIN.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... tkZA&hl=en


Introduction to Tarot:  
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... Rjag&hl=en


Origins of Tarot-simplified:  
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... ZnNg&hl=en


How does Tarot work?:  
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... dnNg&hl=en

THE MAJOR ARCANUM CARDS EXPLAINED.
Each card will be hosted on Google, just click the link. Further discussions are done on their own threads and these links will be listed under each Card name.

0-The Fool.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... Zkdw&hl=en
Discussions and comments must be posted on this thread:
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 126#261126

I-The Magician
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... M0aA&hl=en

THE MINOR ARCANUM CARDS EXPLAINED.

The Aces
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... ZjOQ&hl=en

Ace of Swords.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... Rndw&hl=en

Ace of Cups.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... NkYg&hl=en

Ace of Pentacles.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... Jkcw&hl=en

Ace of Wands.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... NWRz&hl=en


Some of the topics discussed below, are complicated and "advanced". However nothing stops any-one from browsing and taking part in these topics.


Celtic Cross Template:  
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... Nobg&hl=en


Celtic Cross, numeric attributions and how to read it:  
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... Jmdw&hl=en


Minor Arcanum Astrological Associations “timing”: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... NWZn&hl=en


Major Arcanum Associations:  
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... cWM1&hl=en

The Fools path or Journey through the Major Arcanum.
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 084#261084


The Tarot and the Kaballah:  
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... hocg&hl=en


Geometry, God and Tarot:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... cGQ3&hl=en


Masonic Influence:  
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... YyOA&hl=en


Cards with Moons:  
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 897#239897


How to determine your enemies, friends and family members:  http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 353#259353

Classifying people in a set of Mundane Circumstance:  http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 504#259504

The color yellow;  
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 092#240092
Comments on yellow and red;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 937#253937

Death and the Masonic cornerstone, five pointed Rose and Masonic colors, lunar lodges, circumbulation, Lesser Lights, triangles, squares; http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 133#240133

Pillars on the Cards, Jachin and Boaz;  http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 384#240384

The three virtues in the Major Arcanum; http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 700#240700

The divisions in cards;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 324#258324

The three sets of seven in the Major Arcanum; http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 740#245740

Judgement and the Lovers;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 797#245797

Pomegranates on the High Priestess card; http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 784#253784

Cards with Moons; http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 935#253935

The Nine Majors;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 914#253914

The Moon card and the Pomegranates on the High Priestess; http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 284#254284

The Sola Busca Tarot, and origins of Rider Waite and Thoth decks. http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... hyNw&hl=en
Discussions and comparisons on the SB, RW and AC.

THE HEBREW ALEPH-BETH AND KABBALAH.

Aleph;
http://mysticboard.org/vi ... 640#259640
Jacob's ladder is part of Aleph:

Jacob's Ladder;
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... JwOQ&hl=en

The Symantic structure and formative meanings of the Hebrew Aleph-Beth.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... 54aw&hl=en

Blessed be.
Last edited by Payewacker on Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:50 pm, edited 14 times in total.

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pirbid
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Post by pirbid » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:52 pm

pirbid wrote::) I have to agree with Cedars here.
PW, keep this thread on the kabala by all means and develop it for all those who have shown an interest and can give their take on it, but you must really give a break to newcomers! I'm sure you don't expect them to start the Tarot house by the roof...

Let's see if we can move some of the more basic discussions to the Learn forum. I meant to do something to attract newcomers there, I just haven't had the time with our high season work. So I am grateful for Cedar's suggestion: start a thread on the Fool's journey through the Majors, which are the first lesson in Tarot, anyway.

Have to run -again!-. Catch you all later  :)
Mmm... I quote myself in case there has been some misunderstanding. Second line: 'PW, keep this thread...'. I am also not averse to making a tutorial out of it if you know how to do it. I just wouldn't start with this sort of subject on the Learn Tarot, but still feel I should try to refresh that in some way, so that there is some activity, it doesn't look so dead and maybe more newbies wander by.
BTW, I did suggest to the admins that it would be easier to check if the Learn Tarot was somehow gathered within this general Tarot forum. There might be a problem with that, or maybe they will contemplate it when they change servers, apparently within a few months, since they will have to change quite a few things then, I guess.

Anyway, I'm a bit overloaded lately, so any ideas are welcome, specially from those who have been putting so much effort into this forum  :smt002 Sorry if I sounded off putting or something.

Hugs to you all  :)
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)

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