Let's get this ball rolling!
Cedars, you galantly, and ever so gracefully, exposed yourself to this trap, thanks for leading the way!
Blessed be
Payewacker's Tarot - Use a Major Arcanum card to establish the TIMING of an event, as final outcome!
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Payewacker
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Payewacker's Tarot - Use a Major Arcanum card to establish the TIMING of an event, as final outcome!
Hi Guys,
Let's get this ball rolling!
Cedars, you galantly, and ever so gracefully, exposed yourself to this trap, thanks for leading the way!
Blessed be
Let's get this ball rolling!
Cedars, you galantly, and ever so gracefully, exposed yourself to this trap, thanks for leading the way!
Blessed be
Last edited by Payewacker on Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Payewacker
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- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
Hi Cedars,
Perhaps we start with a point of referance. The links to the "Timing" docs I host on Google docs.
Minor Arcanum;
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... NWZn&hl=en
Major Arcanum;
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... cWM1&hl=en
Blessed be.
Perhaps we start with a point of referance. The links to the "Timing" docs I host on Google docs.
Minor Arcanum;
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... NWZn&hl=en
Major Arcanum;
http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... cWM1&hl=en
Blessed be.
Do as you want, Harm none!
Following on the thread where Payewacker had posted a chart for timing on tarot cards, we decided to run some experiments to decipher the timing of events. I know some of the examples may not be ideal, but I am starting the opening thread on this topic.
I did a reading recently to a friend using the Celtic Cross and the question was twofold: what is the outlook on X's health and what should X do in order to attain good health?
The cards that came out were quite poignant to the querent's situation and the number 10 Outcome card was the Page of Cups. Now, if we were to attribute timing to this card (could we?) what would it be? I know the Page of Cups stands for Pisces..... Would that mean some sort news about health by February/March (2010) time?
This is a shot in the dark and I hope we can exchange views and opinions to gain further insights on the tarot and its timing element.
I did a reading recently to a friend using the Celtic Cross and the question was twofold: what is the outlook on X's health and what should X do in order to attain good health?
The cards that came out were quite poignant to the querent's situation and the number 10 Outcome card was the Page of Cups. Now, if we were to attribute timing to this card (could we?) what would it be? I know the Page of Cups stands for Pisces..... Would that mean some sort news about health by February/March (2010) time?
This is a shot in the dark and I hope we can exchange views and opinions to gain further insights on the tarot and its timing element.
Last edited by cedars on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Payewacker
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Hi Cedars,
I'm not of the opinion that you have digressed, we all know, that the CC, should ideally close with a Major or a Court card. Then we have the three cards of advice, not being part, but yet transfer a possible route to follow.
Yes we may say Pisces, but let's also do Gematria. Page---11, reduce to two of Cups, or High Priestess. Is this an issue concerning mental or "head" trouble, or maybe a perception which is fickle and not based on the prognosis. Although it seems to be good news?
However, before we run too far, it would be wise to research the Quinances and 32 decanates as found in Magickal Grimoires. Here we can establish the King of the specific time period and all the seals, pantacles, Daemons, who run with that. Therefore it is also imperative to consult Dionyssus and Zoroaster's teaching regarding the Angels and their assimilations to certain degrees in the Zodiac! We can also establish which negative force to oppose and which chant need to be used?
Perhaps we need to employ the assistance of an Astrologer as well. I will send a request to Airgon, to give his pound of flesh here.
Blessed be.
I'm not of the opinion that you have digressed, we all know, that the CC, should ideally close with a Major or a Court card. Then we have the three cards of advice, not being part, but yet transfer a possible route to follow.
Yes we may say Pisces, but let's also do Gematria. Page---11, reduce to two of Cups, or High Priestess. Is this an issue concerning mental or "head" trouble, or maybe a perception which is fickle and not based on the prognosis. Although it seems to be good news?
However, before we run too far, it would be wise to research the Quinances and 32 decanates as found in Magickal Grimoires. Here we can establish the King of the specific time period and all the seals, pantacles, Daemons, who run with that. Therefore it is also imperative to consult Dionyssus and Zoroaster's teaching regarding the Angels and their assimilations to certain degrees in the Zodiac! We can also establish which negative force to oppose and which chant need to be used?
Perhaps we need to employ the assistance of an Astrologer as well. I will send a request to Airgon, to give his pound of flesh here.
Blessed be.
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Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
Hi Cedars.
With the example you used, Two of Cups and High Priestess, yes the date would be an estimated time period in Pisces. Two of Cups is then attached to a week, considering 52 weeks, 52 pip cards. The High Priestess rules Pisces, I think we can then with tongue in cheek, establish fairly accurately a specific week! The Celtic Cross, contains houses which give you an indication of time as well, card five and six!!
We need to consider that Court Cards as final outcome, not always, but practically mainly, refers to people.
Are there other "Tarot readers" going to participate?
Blessed be
With the example you used, Two of Cups and High Priestess, yes the date would be an estimated time period in Pisces. Two of Cups is then attached to a week, considering 52 weeks, 52 pip cards. The High Priestess rules Pisces, I think we can then with tongue in cheek, establish fairly accurately a specific week! The Celtic Cross, contains houses which give you an indication of time as well, card five and six!!
We need to consider that Court Cards as final outcome, not always, but practically mainly, refers to people.
Are there other "Tarot readers" going to participate?
Blessed be
Do as you want, Harm none!
Sorry, PW, I'm afraid I can't follow your studies of the Hebrew alphabet.However, I was very interested in the timing posts. I copied your Google link and had a good look at it, then browsed in the web for other versions of the same subject and found this, for instance:
So, what do you all think about this? The trouble is there are differing versions, so I guess each of us must use that which feels better. I'd rather not pinpoint things too closely, but the seasons and even the moon phases I like. Cedars, have you noticed how the seasons are really similar to those you posted? Only Wands and Cups are changed, although I would also think Fire-Wands more appropriate for the summer and Water-Cups for Spring, so I think I will use your system :smt002Fine-Tuning your Predictions
If the reading points to an event happening in the next month, it is possible to narrow down the period to approximately seven days. For this, we use the Aces. Knowledge of the Moon Phases is a useful skill:
Ace of Pentacles First Quarter
Ace of Cups 2nd Quarter
Ace of Swords 3rd Quarter
Ace of Wands 4th Quarter
To determine the day, simply look to see if one of the planetary cards is significant:
Sunday Sun, Sun
Monday Moon, High Priestess
Tuesday Mars, The Tower
Wednesday Mercury, Magician
Thursday Jupiter, Fortune
Friday Venus, Empress
Saturday Saturn, World
The divinatory meanings of the cards are ignored, otherwise Tuesdays will always be disastrous... Conversely, if the reading suggests events are not particularly predictable, we might see either the Fool, the Hanged Man or Judgment cards in the “Outcome” position of a Spread.
The Four Seasons
There are times when a vague prediction date is required. The Pages do not have an astrological attribution, but they do represent the four seasons.
Spring Page of Wands
Summer Page of Cups
Autumn Page of Swords
Winter Page of Pentacles
Armed with this information, you have the ability to make predictions as accurately or vaguely as required, and depending on the situation. No other system of divination has such a range of timing.
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)
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Payewacker
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Hi Cedars, Pirbid.
I have neglected this posting very badly.
I'm now getting stuck on the High Priestess, attached to Beth/Byat. A very interesting face on this, is that Beth is in fact that which can contain, but not being the true container, being altered by that which it contains.
In this sense, I need to do some extra work. I've a few subjects running and just need to be very still to find the my landing spot exactly.
Pirbid. The study of the Aleph-Beth, is not as daunting as you may think. We need to approach the study, with a open or "alternative" mindflow. In essance, it's how we decribe and get to an easier "understanding"
Blessed be.
I have neglected this posting very badly.
I'm now getting stuck on the High Priestess, attached to Beth/Byat. A very interesting face on this, is that Beth is in fact that which can contain, but not being the true container, being altered by that which it contains.
In this sense, I need to do some extra work. I've a few subjects running and just need to be very still to find the my landing spot exactly.
Pirbid. The study of the Aleph-Beth, is not as daunting as you may think. We need to approach the study, with a open or "alternative" mindflow. In essance, it's how we decribe and get to an easier "understanding"
Blessed be.
Do as you want, Harm none!
Glad you have such confidence in our abilities, PW. I avow I have so many urgent things in mind right now that just reading your posts makes my head swim with Hebrew letters, yods and astrological symbols :smt120 However, when I have a little time, I like to explore different approaches to Tarot reading. Since cabala is a bit too much for me, I am investigating a method in which the main thing is not each card's meaning, but their elements and the interactions between them, as well as the placement, to find out which tendency comes out strongest.
To put it another way: have you ever had to tell a querent 'Well, according to this card here, this could happen, but, according to this other one, the opposite may happen?'
Well, I have, many times. The way I try to explain it is that one is potential and the other is an outcome affected by the querent's present attitude or some such that stops the full potential from realizing itself.
Well, with this method, theoretically, you would be able to say exactly which of them is more likely to happen, if nothing else changes, and even why. Isn't that amazing? Well, I think so. I hate it when I have to be vague in a reading because I get stumped by funny contradictions like this.
If any of you is interested, just ask me for more details.
Night
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)
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Payewacker
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Pirbid,
But, that is what the numbers are all about. The only spread that contains the path from one to ten is the CC.
1-Spark or idea-Aleph, becoming Yod, in completion.
2-Action-direction of the idea-thinking the world is an oyster or a jail.
3-Result of the two above put toghether.
4-Continuum, or complacancy.
5-the result of 4 or the obstacle created.
6-being beaten or be the winner, and so on up to ten, being attainment.
When i do the CC, I start linking cards and pulling the other out of the deck, placing them, in order to make connections, which is significant in completing the reading. Doing this bring out hidden aspects not known by a novice.
Look at this. If the Lovers is in house 3, the five of Pentacles in house 1 and the seven of wands in house two, what would we make of this? House 2 being an obstacle!! and not productive of good, even if the card itself is a good one. Therefore, we may see that the person has financial difficulty, spilling over into his personal relationships, and perhaps he or she is the cause of many arguments, and have to work on themselves to produce the Lovers in card 3. So now. We have the Lovers in house 3. card no 6+house number 3, gives us the Hermit. In this. it is advisable for the querant to do introspection and consider his/her actions! This is also your first three card spread in the CC. Current, obstacle, result. Then now, and this is a co-incidence. Add the card numbers house 1-5, house 2-7 and house three 6. The gematria is 5+7+6=18. Reduce to 9---The Hermit. House three being the very near future.
Between card 5 and card 6, we can establish a time period. Card 6 being a "longer period" into the future. So card three will happen in between. Then to finalise the CC, you use cards 3, 6, 9 and 10, these together create the possible outcome!
To do the CC, you need to establish the value of each number and it's relevant biological or spiritual process.
I don't do other spreads, or highly unlikely to. I started from day one and stuck to it, that is why I always research every topic analytical in each aspect and how it would fit in the CC. I won't give a querant all the links and symbolism, but will use it to determine the actions they need to consider. This not only at the face value, but also, with the links to other cards. Obviously considering those which are more profound.
Blessed be.
But, that is what the numbers are all about. The only spread that contains the path from one to ten is the CC.
1-Spark or idea-Aleph, becoming Yod, in completion.
2-Action-direction of the idea-thinking the world is an oyster or a jail.
3-Result of the two above put toghether.
4-Continuum, or complacancy.
5-the result of 4 or the obstacle created.
6-being beaten or be the winner, and so on up to ten, being attainment.
When i do the CC, I start linking cards and pulling the other out of the deck, placing them, in order to make connections, which is significant in completing the reading. Doing this bring out hidden aspects not known by a novice.
Look at this. If the Lovers is in house 3, the five of Pentacles in house 1 and the seven of wands in house two, what would we make of this? House 2 being an obstacle!! and not productive of good, even if the card itself is a good one. Therefore, we may see that the person has financial difficulty, spilling over into his personal relationships, and perhaps he or she is the cause of many arguments, and have to work on themselves to produce the Lovers in card 3. So now. We have the Lovers in house 3. card no 6+house number 3, gives us the Hermit. In this. it is advisable for the querant to do introspection and consider his/her actions! This is also your first three card spread in the CC. Current, obstacle, result. Then now, and this is a co-incidence. Add the card numbers house 1-5, house 2-7 and house three 6. The gematria is 5+7+6=18. Reduce to 9---The Hermit. House three being the very near future.
Between card 5 and card 6, we can establish a time period. Card 6 being a "longer period" into the future. So card three will happen in between. Then to finalise the CC, you use cards 3, 6, 9 and 10, these together create the possible outcome!
To do the CC, you need to establish the value of each number and it's relevant biological or spiritual process.
I don't do other spreads, or highly unlikely to. I started from day one and stuck to it, that is why I always research every topic analytical in each aspect and how it would fit in the CC. I won't give a querant all the links and symbolism, but will use it to determine the actions they need to consider. This not only at the face value, but also, with the links to other cards. Obviously considering those which are more profound.
Blessed be.
Do as you want, Harm none!
Whee! Let's see if I can follow you...While you rely heavily on numbers and Hebrew letters, as well as positions and their meanings, this system I am reading about (and which I doubt I will ever be able to conquer for regular use), has hardly any need of positions, save to establish a relevant card and its modifiers.
And it doesn't pay attention to numbers until it has established the stronger card attending only to the interaction between elements (for example, Wands+Cups+Pentacles, or Wands+Pentacles+Wands). Majors are translated to elements via their astrological connection: in your example, the Lovers, being Gemini, would be Air, therefore Swords; the Hermit, being Virgo, would be Earth, or Pentacles, see what I mean?
Only then does it look at the card number and its meaning (they are not much for learning meanings, either).
As you see, it has little to do with your system, although I find both complicated enough in their own right :smt017
One other thing, PW. I was really fazed by your placing of CC positions, so I am also investigating all the variations in CC placements... But... I will save my findings for the thread in which we are discussing said spread.
See you there!
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)
Hello Pirbid
Wow... some discussions we are having here, eh?
I am, like you, a bit baffled by the different placements of the CC spread. I have however shifted all my previous ones and am following PW's spread/placement, because that is the one which ALSO came with my tarot deck - The Rider Waite.
One gets really dizzy with all these different placements of the Celtic Cross and that is where my dislike to the spread may have originated from....... sorry :(
Wow... some discussions we are having here, eh?
I am, like you, a bit baffled by the different placements of the CC spread. I have however shifted all my previous ones and am following PW's spread/placement, because that is the one which ALSO came with my tarot deck - The Rider Waite.
One gets really dizzy with all these different placements of the Celtic Cross and that is where my dislike to the spread may have originated from....... sorry :(
It doesn't really matter, so there is no reason to feel sorry, Cedars. Many people don't even need to use spreads in order to do readings: they just talk as the cards fall and let their intuition do the work.It's just that I am more analytical and it always helps me a lot more if I can understand the roots or the reasons behind certain concepts or methods. Once I know the 'why', I don't need to make such an effort to remember the 'what', it comes easily. That's the effect I am looking for.
Also, I am just curious, although my curiosity is hardly as far reaching as PW's, hee, hee.
Maybe his background allows him better understanding of certain things, lucky him. I feel a bit thick sometimes while trying to follow his explanations, specially when I am so tired, as now, and have to go back to work in a few hours... :smt095 So I think I will just let it all rest till I have a clear day ahead.
Hugs! :)
Sunshine from the islands of eternal spring ;)
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