Research on Western and Chinese Astrology

[ivan_taniputera]

Dear Friends,

I am an astrology researcher from Indonesia. I have a dream to bridge western and eastern astrology to find the connection between both of them. I base my research on BAzi, Ziweidoushu, and western astrology.
I found that if in there are stellium in astrological chart, the bazi chart mostly have special structure (eg. very strong yang wood, etc). Could anybody comment about this.

Regards,

Ivan Taniputera

[yoyocue]

Dear Ivan,

  If you are looking for the connection between western astrology and Chinese astrology, Purple Star Astrology (on of Chinese astrology) may be what you're looking for.


  Bazi is the totally different system. Bazi is hard to learn at the beginning and the more you learn, the more documents you should read. Your reading comes from eight Chinese words, you can image it is pretty difficult than other astrology.

[Xuan Qi]

Dear Ivan,

as i mm study thru the both chinese & western astrology, i did find some similiriaty like:
Chinese Zi Wei Dou Shu having output like Western Star Birth Chart
Chinese Bazi having output like Numerology
The I Ching = tarot.
i tried both the method and they hv almost the same answer.....

[Xuan Qi]

The StarsTypical of Chinese Metaphysics studies, Zi Wei Dou Shu also makes of stars and deities to depict the quality of each palace.  There are good stars and bad stars, and some stars’ are interdependent with other stars.  There are a lot of stars in Zi Wei Dou Shu, so we will concentrate on the following 14 major stars:

1. Zi Wei - The Emperor
Like an emperor, Zi Wei is too haughty and enjoys flattery. Zi Wei likes to be flanked by Zuo Fu & You Bi, his left and right deputies.
2. Tian Ji – The Advisor
Tian Ji means secret from Heaven.  As such, it is apt that Tian Ji, being the star that symbolizes wisdom and the brain, is The Grand Advisor and second in command to The Emperor.  Like the brain, Tian Ji is restless.  It also represents the limb since it is wood in nature and moves a lot.
3. Tai Yang – The Sun
Like the Sun, Tai Yang is big and masculine, and exudes warmth to the masses.


4. Wu Qu – The Military General
Wu Qu is name of a military general star. This is a wealth star but may indicate a lonely streak much like an army General.
5. Tian Tong – The Hedonist
Tian Tong literally means Heaven’s equivalent.  As such, this is a star of blessing who often enjoy the great things like art, music, and food. This star is often related to creativity and youth.
6. Lian Zhen – Chastity
Lian Zhen’s Chinese literal translation is honest and chaste.  We may relate honesty to a politician star. This is also a romance star, at times bordering unto illicit affairs.
7. Tian Fu –The Finance Minister
Tian Fu is a star who looks after the imperial treasury and hence associated with wealth and property.  Consistent with the opulence of the imperial treasury, it is a star that of elegance and appearance.  The Finance Minister is someone who manages wealth and finances well, capable and not a follower.
8. Tai Yin – The Moon
Tai Yin is the moon and symbolizes femininity or motherliness.  Persons with this star in their Life Palace are likely to be patient, caring and nurturing.  It is also a star associated with wealth although it is wealth that accumulates over time.
9. Tan Lang – Covetous Wolf
Tan Lang is star of desire.  It covets wealth, long life, romance and knowledge.  Due to its immense desire, it is also multi-talented although its array of talents cover both mainstream and clandestine fields.Â
10. Ju Men – Huge Door
Fengshui masters likened doors to mouth of the Qi (invisible energy).  If we think along this line, Ju Men is linked to communication and more often than not, gossips, since a big mouth spews more than what is necessary. People with Ju Men in their Life Palace can alleviate this problem by choosing a career that encompasses a considerable amount of oral communication eg.  teaching, sales, politics, entertainers, attorneys, public relations, etc.
11. Tian Xiang – Seal Minister
Tian Xiang is the learned Seal Minister that is pulling the strings behind the scenes.  In Chinese history, the seal of approval is required for any major imperial decree to be executed.  As such, although being capable is his virtue, do not expect him to bend rules or be a flexible decision maker.
12. Tian Liang – Heavenly Beam
Like a beam that is high up inside an ancient Chinese architecture, Tian Liang represents someone high up (usually seniors or parents) or someone who is a leader.  This star is a go-getter, but do not expect it to achieve success quickly as someone being new to the scene is not consistent with Tian Liang’s reputation as the senior.
13. Qi Sha – 7 Killing
Qi Sha is aggressive, stubborn and a risk-taker.  Due to these radical traits and strong personality, Qi Sha can  be isolated or have few friends.  People with strong Qi Sha presence in their Zi Wei Dou Shu Life Palace is suited to pursuing a career in sports.
14. Po Jun – The Destruction
Po Jun is another strong character and has an exhaustive streak.  It is generally a negative star since it likes to exhaust or destruct.  However, it can be used to lower the Chaste Star’s penchance for gambling.  It can also be guided properly by the Tian Liang star.

[ivan_taniputera]

Dear Yoyocue and Xuanqi

I very thank you for your replies. It is quite interesting to discuss the similarities and differences between Western and Eastern System. I just want to add some topics to our discussion.

1. Horary Astrology can be compared to Yijing.

2. Have you notice the connection between "Punishment" (Xing) in Bazi charts and T-Square in western astrological birthchart? I found some striking connection. Many people born with "Punishment" (especially Chou-Wei-Xu) have also T-Square in ther birth chart. I think "Punishment" acts like T-Square, which shows us a kind energy unbalance

3. I have researched how to changed a bazi chart into astrological birth chart. We can also deduct a rising sign and the position of Yupiter in zodiacal signs through elements in Bazi

I hope to hear further from you

Ivan T.

[Mandimedea]

I am very new to this and have only simple basic knowledge, but for some time I have been extremely interested in researching these two together.  I am true to both western and chinese characteristics and think there is link.  Would love to keep reading more posts from you all about this and am also looking up iformation found on this forum, thank you all.

[yoyocue]

Dear ivan_taniputera,

   I am sorry I do not understand what "Punishment" is. I think you do great reseach.
I still think the system of bazi is different than western astrology, but you better have lots of cases to support your thought if you try to find out the connection between two. At least, most of Chinese astrologers only agree the connection between Purple star astrology and western astrology.

On Purple Star Astrology, we consider some angle (T-square, opposite, etc,) like western astrology.
On Bazi, we consider the natural five elments. No one discusses lagna (ascendant).


regards,
yoyocue.

[ivan_taniputera]

There are four kind of punishments in Bazi.

1.Ungrateful Punishment

If two of these following branches (dizi) are available side by side in your bazi chart: Yin-Si-Shen

2.Bullying Punishment

If two of these following branches (dizi) are available side by side in your bazi chart: Chou-Wei-Xu

3.Impolite Speech Punishment

If Zi and Mao are available in your bazi chart.

4. Self Punishment

If two Hais are available in your bazi chart.

Regarding Ziwei dan Western Astrology, the meanings of houses (called "gong" in Ziwei), are similar.  Derek Walter in his book has mentioned the comparison clearly.

May this useful,

Ivan Taniputera

[yoyocue]

Dear ivan_taniputera,

   Thank you for your explanation of punishment. It is 刑 (xing) in Chinese.
How are these four punishments formed? It is a long story. Maybe you need to read traditional Chinese astrology books.