Discussion on "The Devil" card.

[Payewacker]

Hi Guys,

Further to the discussion on the Devil, I want to quote other authors on this card;

"Basic Tarot Meaning
Perhaps the most misunderstood of all the major arcana, the Devil is not really "Satan" at all, but Pan the half-goat nature god and/or Dionysius. These are gods of pleasure and abandon, of wild behavior and unbridled desires. With Capricorn as its ruling sign, this is a card about ambitions; it is also synonymous with temptation and addiction. On the flip side, however, the card can be a warning to someone who is too restrained, someone who never allows themselves to get passionate or messy or wild - or ambitious. This, too, is a form of enslavement. As a person, the Devil can stand for a man of money or erotic power, aggressive, controlling, or just persuasive. This is not to say a bad man, but certainly a powerful man who is hard to resist. The important thing is to remind the Querent that any chain is freely worn. In most cases, you are enslaved only because you allow it.

Thirteen's Observations
This card explores some very frightening things, things we are taught to view as evil or shameful. Like earthy materialism, sexual desire, valuables, food, drugs. Lack of control, excess, obsession and raw ambition. At its absolute worst, this is either the addict or the stalker, totally obsessed, enslaved. At its best, this is a card about giving into impulse, cutting lose, going for the gold, climbing every mountain. Among all the cards, this is one of the most complex. Interestingly because no other card is so one-sided. Most cards urge balance, unity, restraint, yin-yang. Not this card. Completely tilted toward the masculine, it is a card that revels in extremity. There is a convincing argument that this is the most powerful and dangerous card in the deck. Magically speaking, it is the one card in the deck that holds the secret of how to escape the material and temporal bonds of Earth. It is a very potent and fascinating card."

Second Author;
"Divinatory Meaning
Uprigth
Greed, the monkey trap. Vehement desires, lust. Bondage to an ideal. Bad or evil influence or advice. A choice upon which your fate depends. Dissolution.
Reversed.
A release from bondage. A rest. A new life’s direction."

Third Author;
"The Devil represents the antithesis, the forces that strive to upset the harmonious order of existence. It is not simply being an individualist, or wanting his own way, that makes this being evil. The Magician also tries to impose his own will on the universe, and, in fact one of the results of completing the path of the Tarot is to enable you to truly control your own destiny.
The allegory here is not the independent will, but of an intelligence that works to destroy for the sake of upsetting the divine balance. His purpose is to defeat Divine Law and return the world to a state of chaos.
The ancients taught that there is an order to the universe, within which all living beings could find their own best destiny. Divine Law seeks to establish and maintain that order. The Devil works to upset and undermine it. He may operate as a temper, or he may command fear, but either way his purpose is to offer irresistible inducements to stray from the true path.
The true path as taught by the Tarot, is to become as close to the Divine as possible. At this stage of your spiritual development you have become adept enough to be a valuable servant for the forces of evil. This is the point at which you can choose either to continue toward your ultimate goal, or take the left-hand path, which ends here. The inducements are especially tempting to you at this time. You’ve just been forced to wait for fulfillment of your purpose(s) (Temperance). The Devil seems to offer a way to achieve those purposes without any more waiting, or any further work.
The power offered is tremendous, but the price demanded is even greater. Never forget that you can achieve yout goals without the Devil’s help. In fact, the only reason he’s interested in you is because your potential exceeds anything he can hope to achieve—unless he can stop you.
You are not being offered an easier way out. The significance of the chained figures teaches that what you must surrender to take the power The Devil has to offer, is your own free will.

Upright
Hatred, violence, destruction. Turmoil, fatality, bad luck. Willing bondage. Your own will and authority removed and given to another. Also that which is predestined and therefore unescapepable but not for that reason necessarily evil.

Reversed
Pettiness, weakness. Blindness, jealousy, illness. Evil fate. Wrong choices. Disaster for you.
You’re being offered a quick fix for your problems. If you are impatient enough to take it, you may see the destruction of all your dreams and plans. You can succeed on your own. Don’t be tempted by shortcuts, however attractive; or dismayed by the hard work involved if you continue alone.
If this card represents you, beware. The power you are exercising over your subordinates is heady, and you may find it satisfying to manipulate, control, and even destroy their lives. But even the real devil has no place to go but down."

We need to consider that the Devil has its root in the ARCHETYPAL, then is uplifted into the excistential and projects into the COSMIS Realm. This we will discuss at a later stage.

Please guys, submit your approach to this Major Arcanum Card.

Blessed be.

[cedars]

So far I prefer and I feel in tune with the "Basic Tarot Meaning" and I think the Third author is taking it a bit too far in his/her negativity about the Devil.
I agree, as soon as we say Devil we get ideas of satan himself as people get ideas when they see the Death card. Perhaps this is the beauty of the Major Arcana where things are not what they seem to be or engraved in our subconscious from different other schools of thought, not to mention religion and so on.

To put it plainly, for me The Devil can be good and it can also be bad. To put it even more plainly, when one over indulges into something, be it excesses in material and physical, at the same time not doing it, i..e. staying cut off from - and I mean totally cut off - from the material and the physical world, is yet another kind of enslavement.

We are all chained up to many things in our life: workhalolics, chocaholics, alcoholics, sexoholics, over eating, under eating (bulimia), over exercise and no exercise at all...................and the list goes on on both sides of the spectrum.

I wonder why the Devil is in between Temperance and the  Tower. Should Temperance perhaps come after the Devil, or is the Tower some kind of a warning after the Devil?

[Payewacker]

Hi Cedars,


I agree with you, but think that we need to look at the 3 levels of energy, and then it is easily understood why the Devil is between Temperance and the Tower.

The Devil is the sixth card in the Existential level and represent the female copulative energy to Vav, the sixth card in the Archetypal, which is the male energy.

Go to these links to see how this lot fits,
Discussion on Vav: http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=68987

Astrological Associations of the Major Arcanum; http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... cWM1&hl=en

It is important to consider how each letter blends into the other, and how they uplift into the cosmic. The second tri-ad is 4-5-6, it would then be 40, 50, 60 in the existential. Therefore we should not think that the Devil is
'in-between" Temperance and the Tower, but a conclusion to a separate set of circumstances? We are looking at Death, Temperance and The Devil. The Tower, The Star and The Moon is a set. The Sun, Judgement and The World is a set.

In the Archytepal, it is 4: The Emperor, 5: The Heirophant and 6: The Lovers.

Looking on the Lovers Card, we see a lot of "likewise" symbolism or links to the Devil.

OK, this is all theoretical mumbo, but there is something to be learned here. Definitely, the Devil is within, projecting to the Life-in existance, and then to the Cosmic in Tav and Quf.

We can now consider the Devil in a different light, and form our theories around a more practical application.

Blessed be.

[George]

yeah, i notice most people see the devil as negative.  i have seen in spreads, spreads for themselves, and it always seems to be a negative card even when it probably shouldn't be.   The first book i read on tarot didn't even give the card a meaning just left the page blank.

[cedars]

The first book i read on tarot didn't even give the card a meaning just left the page blank.

Really? I can't believe that!!! So, it was not a worthwhile tarot book to buy then! Wow... how can authors be so biased, I do not understand.

[Payewacker]

My, my?

I wonder if this author is a spooky spiritualist? Obviously not informed, and totally ignorant to the subtleties in the Tarot. How can you even continue to the Tower without understanding the Devil and it's influence.

It's amazing that the book was published!!

Blessed be.

[cedars]

My thoughts exactly!

[George]

The first book i read on tarot didn't even give the card a meaning just left the page blank.

Really? I can't believe that!!! So, it was not a worthwhile tarot book to buy then! Wow... how can authors be so biased, I do not understand.

actually, not a bad book save the lack of info on one of the major arcana  
it really shows how much people see the negativity of the card.  

The book is just a very basic book on card meanings.  Meanings you would find in any book or online.  It also has some of the background on the images in the cards with over size images of the cards.  I still use the book as a learning tool. Even though the devil is missing which, like you all, is the biggest weakness and plain stupid for being afraid of a card and not having the meaning of the card.

maybe that is why the book was in the bargin bin for half the price!  

[Payewacker]

Hi guys,

Well, as a friend always said "Roll-on sister death", at half the price and general card descriptions, perhaps worthwile, however you should've written your own interpritations long ago.

Back to the Devil,

I asked a totally indipendant person to give me a first glance interpretation on this card.
His first observation was: Look at the hairy part of the Devil, his legs region. It looks like a heart and is linked to the four-square structure by his claws. Then, another question, Why does his hind-legs look like chicken feet or claws? The burning batton in his left hand is blue, --Royalty--, why?

Our Horned Lord is half goat half human, but he has hooves not claws!

Chew on this for a while.

Blessed be.

[Payewacker]

Guys,

It would be nice to have some input on this matter.

WHAT ABOUT YOU CASSIE?

Ok, so we look at 6-60-600.

Samech, in contradiction to the card itself, is the "female" as it is the joint between words, or many words in Hebrew, not realy the "joining" of words. In essence it is then the copulative element in reproducing all the time. This is not Greek, so let us discuss and find some informative theories?

Would it be a good thing to say that throughout our existence, we are joined by the hip, to the DEVIL?

Blessed be.

Ps,
Contrary to popular beleif. It is clearly explained and expanded that God brought "IT", the two gendered being, to a deep sleep, and sealed the part where he removed the "female".

[Rhutobello]

Cleaned thread...please keep to discussions.....keep to much personal conversation out of it.......If you don't have anything that bring subject forward.....well then keep it for yourself.....