I have a question regarding the deck I have.

[Berrylumps]

I just joined this forum yesterday. I have a Heraclio Fournier Vitoria deck. It's 40 cards in total, I just wanted to know why cards 8 and 9 are missing from each suit? Would I go about interpreting the cards the same way as I would with any minor arcana deck?

Thank you (:

[George]

I just joined this forum yesterday. I have a Heraclio Fournier Vitoria deck. It's 40 cards in total, I just wanted to know why cards 8 and 9 are missing from each suit? Would I go about interpreting the cards the same way as I would with any minor arcana deck?

Thank you (:

 I have never heard of a deck with only 40 cards compared to the normal 78!  i can't wait to hear what some of the more experienced Tarot folks have to say!  

[Payewacker]

Hi,

Never heard of this? let me go scratch scratch.

Blessed be.

[cedars]

Are you sure this is not an Oracle deck and not a tarot one?
usually oracle decks in in such number......

[Payewacker]

Hi,

Cited from Wikipedia

Naipes Heraclio Fournier S.A. is a playing card manufacturer that was founded in 1868 and is based in Vitoria, Spain. Though it has been owned by The United States Playing Card Company since 1986, not only does it continue to maintain separate manufacturing operations, but it also manufactures certain USPC products sold by its parent company in the States (i.e., Congress bridge playing cards).
It was founded by Heraclio Fournier in 1868. He died in 1916. His grandson Félix Alfaro Fournier took on the administration of the company and started a card collection. In 1970 he acquired the card collection from Thomas De la Rue. His collections formed the Fournier Museum of Playing Cards, now property of the Province Government of Alava.
Their design is the most used for the Spanish deck of cards. In the past, they have also printed postage stamps for the postal authorities of certain countries.

Follow this if you want to read the full monty and have all the links;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naipes_Heraclio_Fournier

"The traditional 40-card Spanish baraja is an ancient deck that existed in Spain since between the 14th-16th century. The suits closely resemble those of Italian cards and Latin suited Tarot decks. In fact, the Baraja, like the tarot, are used for both game playing and cartomancy. The Baraja have been widely considered to be part of the occult in many Latin-American countries, yet they continue to be used widely for card games and gambling, especially in Spain. Among other places, the Baraja have appeared in One Hundred Years of Solitude and other Spanish and Latin American literature (e.g., Viaje a la Alcarria by Camilo José Cela). The Baraja is widely used in Spain, Portugal, and Latin America and almost every Spanish family has at least one Baraja.
Baraja in the Spanish language can refer to any type of card deck.

Cards and Suits
A traditional Spanish deck consists of four suits of ten numbered cards (1-7, and 10-12, with 10,11 and 12 being picture cards). Very rarely the eights and nines are added to create a 48-card deck.[dubious – discuss] Jokers are not used, except in the rare 50 (that is, 48 plus 2) cards deck (where they are called comodines). The four suits are bastos (clubs), oros (literally "golds", that is, golden coins), copas (cups) and espadas (swords).
The four suits are thought to represent the four social classes of the Middle Ages. The suit of coins represents the merchants, the clubs represents the peasants, the cups represent the church and the swords represent the military.
The last three cards of each suit have pictures similar to the jack, queen, and king in an Anglo-French deck, and rank identically. They are the sota, which is similar to the jack and generally depicts a page or prince, the caballo (knight, literally "horse"), and the rey (king) respectively.
There are instances of ancient decks having both caballo and reina (queen), being the caballo of lower value than queen. These decks have no numbers in the figure values, not even letters like in the Anglo-American-French deck. They have been not common for playing in Spain, but some German decks retain the four different figures, albeit lacking most of the numbered cards.

Follow this link to view the Deck;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... -cards.jpg

The cards seem to be ordinary playing cards, without the Major Arcanum.

I found this as reference:
The Baraja is used to play several games. Examples are:
el mus (a very popular and highly regarded vying game of Basque origin)
la brisca (a trick-taking game of Italian origin, very popular in Spain, Portugal, Puerto Rico, and Dominican Republic.)
el tute (with many variations)
el guiñote
la escoba del quince (a trick-taking game)
el julepe
el cinquillo
las siete y media (very similar to black jack)
la mona
el truc (or truco)
el cuajo (a matching game from the Philippines)
las cuarenta (a fishing game, the national card game of Ecuador)

There are also Egyptian and Napier which are Tarot decks.

Hope you have a good idea!

Blessed be.

[Payewacker]

Hi,

You can go with this link to see the Tarot decks they manufacture:
http://www.nhfournier.es/es/productos/naipes-tarot

Blessed be.

[Berrylumps]

Thank you very much for all of the replies. They really helped!

[Berrylumps]

Thank you very much for all of the replies. They really helped!

[Berrylumps]

Hi,

Cited from Wikipedia

Naipes Heraclio Fournier S.A. is a playing card manufacturer that was founded in 1868 and is based in Vitoria, Spain. Though it has been owned by The United States Playing Card Company since 1986, not only does it continue to maintain separate manufacturing operations, but it also manufactures certain USPC products sold by its parent company in the States (i.e., Congress bridge playing cards).
It was founded by Heraclio Fournier in 1868. He died in 1916. His grandson Félix Alfaro Fournier took on the administration of the company and started a card collection. In 1970 he acquired the card collection from Thomas De la Rue. His collections formed the Fournier Museum of Playing Cards, now property of the Province Government of Alava.
Their design is the most used for the Spanish deck of cards. In the past, they have also printed postage stamps for the postal authorities of certain countries.

Follow this if you want to read the full monty and have all the links;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naipes_Heraclio_Fournier

"The traditional 40-card Spanish baraja is an ancient deck that existed in Spain since between the 14th-16th century. The suits closely resemble those of Italian cards and Latin suited Tarot decks. In fact, the Baraja, like the tarot, are used for both game playing and cartomancy. The Baraja have been widely considered to be part of the occult in many Latin-American countries, yet they continue to be used widely for card games and gambling, especially in Spain. Among other places, the Baraja have appeared in One Hundred Years of Solitude and other Spanish and Latin American literature (e.g., Viaje a la Alcarria by Camilo José Cela). The Baraja is widely used in Spain, Portugal, and Latin America and almost every Spanish family has at least one Baraja.
Baraja in the Spanish language can refer to any type of card deck.

Cards and Suits
A traditional Spanish deck consists of four suits of ten numbered cards (1-7, and 10-12, with 10,11 and 12 being picture cards). Very rarely the eights and nines are added to create a 48-card deck.[dubious – discuss] Jokers are not used, except in the rare 50 (that is, 48 plus 2) cards deck (where they are called comodines). The four suits are bastos (clubs), oros (literally "golds", that is, golden coins), copas (cups) and espadas (swords).
The four suits are thought to represent the four social classes of the Middle Ages. The suit of coins represents the merchants, the clubs represents the peasants, the cups represent the church and the swords represent the military.
The last three cards of each suit have pictures similar to the jack, queen, and king in an Anglo-French deck, and rank identically. They are the sota, which is similar to the jack and generally depicts a page or prince, the caballo (knight, literally "horse"), and the rey (king) respectively.
There are instances of ancient decks having both caballo and reina (queen), being the caballo of lower value than queen. These decks have no numbers in the figure values, not even letters like in the Anglo-American-French deck. They have been not common for playing in Spain, but some German decks retain the four different figures, albeit lacking most of the numbered cards.

Follow this link to view the Deck;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... -cards.jpg

The cards seem to be ordinary playing cards, without the Major Arcanum.

I found this as reference:
The Baraja is used to play several games. Examples are:
el mus (a very popular and highly regarded vying game of Basque origin)
la brisca (a trick-taking game of Italian origin, very popular in Spain, Portugal, Puerto Rico, and Dominican Republic.)
el tute (with many variations)
el guiñote
la escoba del quince (a trick-taking game)
el julepe
el cinquillo
las siete y media (very similar to black jack)
la mona
el truc (or truco)
el cuajo (a matching game from the Philippines)
las cuarenta (a fishing game, the national card game of Ecuador)

There are also Egyptian and Napier which are Tarot decks.

Hope you have a good idea!

Blessed be.

This is the deck I own. I'm assuming that interpreting the cards would be just like interpreting the minor arcana?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Baraja-40-cards.jpg

[Payewacker]

Hi,

I'm not sure, but I don't think you would be able to do it in a CC spread. Perhaps in 3 or 5 card spreads, however you need 10 pips and 4 Courts if you want to read it in relation to Tarot.

If you want to do Cartomancy you still need the 8's and 9's.

Let me give you an understanding of the numbers.

Aleph--One or Ace is also Yod--10--End. This is the life-death principle and Aleph has a pronounced influence on each alpha numerical sequence or tri-ad(groupings of three). Each letter blends into the other, and describe a different archetypal "influence". Although this is practically only seen in the Major Arcanum, these influences can be derived in the minors as the Majors rule each minor.

We cannot pigeonhole a specific incident into a specific number without having a start or a formative ending. Thus you cannot complete the road of numbers without the two missing cards.

If you want to do divination with your deck, you may want to investigate "Jacob's Ladder" or two-fold breath. Here we have a seven step interplay of the life-death principle, and then you have your three Court Cards.

which is similar to the jack and generally depicts a page or prince, the caballo (knight, literally "horse"), and the rey (king) respectively.
There are instances of ancient decks having both caballo and reina (queen), being the caballo of lower value than queen

Not having a "Queen" per say, may lead to some frustration as you need to be able to discern, "perhaps" an energy or a person, in that position. Therefore you may want to read the Kings as "King and Queen" combined in a setting whereby the knights and pages aspire to fill the position of either title. In this sense the lower ranking Courts (appearing in a spread) will give the indication to whom is referred???

As a diversion I think it would be interesting to compile a system of divination using this deck????

Blessed be