Guys are funny somtimes :)

[Payewacker]

You know, relationships?

We agree on the first matters yes. Relationship issues, my, my. Maybe you think that heterosexual rel. are complicated, you have no idea in a gay relationship. That is why, most gay realtionships don't go beyond three years, Proven fact!! Another thing "age"-mmmmmmmm. I could have practically fathered my husband-------?????

Outside interferance, heavy treading!!! A lot of competition for him, let me tell you. There are things that just has a way of influencing what comes from the outside--money? Then you think about, what was the motive in the first place?

But, let's see?

Blessed be.

[sweetsunray]

Payewacker,

I didn't say heterosexual relationships are more difficult than homosexual ones. My best gay friend has as long a single career as I have, and it's not easy to meet someone who wants a serious relationship for him (especially because he hates the gay bar scene... but getting to know a hetero man in a bar is I can assure you as superficial). I just think two people living together, with the romantic requirements we have for a relationship, whether heterosexual or homosexual, will always remain difficult. And admittedly, a gay man has difficulty finding a committed partner. Meanwhile statistically, I'm the typical example of someone of the 70s, of which a large amount of women and men remain single until far into their thirties. I don't blame my singlehood until I was 35 though on my birthday, but on my priorities and what I'm willing to compromise on and what not for a relationship (which probably is comparable with other people of my generation).

I don't understand the intention of mentioning the differences between you and your partner. I acknowledge that a couple has the challenge of dealing with each other's differences - age, coming from the other side of the world, personalities. Wasn't it exactly my point that the differences have little to do with gender?

May I ask why you use the gay couple difficulties : to argue that men do not commit easily? to argue that female-male interaction works better, and thus a woman is needed to be in a relationship? that two men leads to infedility faster than female-male?  

I know you want to make something clear to me, make a point, but I don't know which point it is. So I cannot tell you whether I agree or disagree, which leads to a situation where we're saying things that is beside the question for the other.

What I do know is that I do not believe in the habbit of seeing differences between different genders where there are no differences. Per example people may argue the exact same way, and yet the woman will be accused of being a drama queen, whereas the man is blamed for not listening. It's not fair to either woman or man to do this, especially because during the argument she's not listening either and he acts as emotionally irrational. They're just unwilling to admit it to themselves, they're doing the exact same thing when they fight.

[Payewacker]

Hi SS,

No, my point is, that as each relationship is, we in the Gay community, at times, have a harder time to adjust to each other, as well as the communities. Also cultural and social pressure, tend to do a lot of harm to such relationships. We are in this position-culture and social.

But, by no means do I not say heterosexual relationships, don't take strain. I see what happens around us, and truly, I'm amased that any of us are still positively sane to certain point!

Blessed be.

[sweetsunray]

Yes, you are right, PW. There is a cultural and social view on gay relationships that is stigmatizing and outright discriminative. And that it will leave a strain on a relationship is certain.

While it's nowhere near to the discrimination against gay relationships, I guess I've encounted discrimination in many little ways against my partner. If he were from North Africa it would be even worse, but there aren't many Latin Americans in Belgium and Europe, so it's not as severe. And yet, the institutionalised discrimination against a a foreign partner causes a heavy financial burden on me, which he did try to alleviate by at least working (yes illegally), but ended up not getting paid for his work (his ex-boss will get his payback though... my parents are tipping off social inspection). Sometimes, we or him alone encounter racists. Not in a heavy way, but some of the comments in our faces have disturbed me.

It makes me sad to think of how it effects people on a day to day basis.

[Payewacker]

Hi SS,

Yes, racism is very alive in any Country, in SA, you don't want to know! We are frowned upon by both races, and sub-races in SA. My hubby is black, not SA and I'm white a white SA, so this gives us heavy uphill. He is also illegal in SA. But this i will sort quick-quick! His family is unaware of me, and my family knows, but doesn't accept it! Very STAUNCH!! Even being Gay has them hopping!!

With your partner, being illegal, he is so open to be abused, and that is absolutely not acceptable, and so wicked!! I see this everyday around me! They are actually stopped as they cross the border, facing Crocodiles, many end up dead, The Limpopo river is swarming with crocs and they are protected, so no culling at all. Then, getting in SA, during the night, they are robbed of everything they have, even their clothes, and given the rags the thieves wear. Some don't even get anything to wear, and come into town stark-naked! It's distressing to see what really happens, you guys know nothing, if you happen to pass by here, you'll be shocked!!!!

Blessed be.

[sweetsunray]

I've been in San Diego Yeah, Belgium is very docile in comparison. My boyfriend's not here at the moment though, he's back in Nicaragua... I didn't back up an illegal stay. But he's preparing the papers he needs to make our partnership official. Most people treated him correctly, but of course said, we can hire you if you have work papers. The other guy hired him for a few days (well nights) a week, couple of hours a night, but then called him from daytime to do this or that for him... like a dog on a leach. I was fed up with it after a week already. And then the first week I heard he wasn't gonna pay my bf because he broke the microwave, and the next week it was something else (nothing even to do with work, poor excuse, but I couldn't officially do anythign against it... except that people abuser doesn't know I got my own connections, and social inspection will cost him more dearly than paying my bf... worse, the guy's a foreigner himself). My bf initially thought "hey, he even offers me an appartment" when he just got hired, and he didn't understand why that made me frown in forewarning and made me tell him "don't ever give that guy your passport!". My bf thought I was jealous or didn't allow him independence, until he experienced the truth.

And though socially there are plenty of people who react badly to gays here, they can marry or live together legally and adopt. And there might have been a bit of a hubbub about it before the living together legally was allowed to gays, afterwards nobody even cried foul when it became possible to marry. On a bigger social scale it's not an issue anymore.

And lastly, many gays from other cultures grow up feeling very guilty about their sexuality. My best friend who's gay doesn't believe in relationships with men from Northern African or Turkish background for that reason. In Mexico I think they've now allowed gay marriage I think. And I've been going there since 1998. In the past decade I've seen many Latin American countries go from a gay taboo to an outing country. A rapid leap to realizing that there are as many gays in Latin America as everywhere else in the world. While this is a good thing, on an individual level there is still a lot to overcome.

Pile all that together and no, that makes it quite hard to have a "normal" relationship.

Wish you two all the best!