Payewacker's Tarot - The Sola Busca Tarot and origins of RW and Thoth decks!

[Payewacker]

Hi Guys,

The Sola Busca, is the first complete Tarot deck, and dates to the 15th Century. It’s not surprising to find, that the Rider Waite and Thoh Tarot decks are based on this deck. I'm not going to include the dates, but we know that the RW was designed long before A. Crowley did the Thoth deck.

The images are not of extremely high quality. Size in the first place plays a "MAJOR PART"  :smt009.  

Looking at all three these decks, will show, how the symbolism, links and influences have been changed added or altered.

For us to establish how AE Waite and A. Crowley got to their images, it’s important to include or compare each card, Pip, Court and Majors. In the Sola Busca, we find a lot of Mythology regarding prominent “leaders or dieties” Each one has it’s own Mythological meaning.

For us to understand the cards, we cannot include the myriad of other decks that sprouted as “Tarot Masters” designed their own decks. Unfortunetaly, most of the times, the real interest or symbolism has been altered, and to understand these decks, you may need an encyclopedia of it’s own. Is it then wisdom or folly to acquire a deck that “looks nice”? I by no means discount the validity of the decks. My opinion is that we should stick to the basics, but, using the “fancy” decks, only to entertain your querant!

Once again, Rhuto, We need to add these images. I have them in word docs. So, it's truly frustrating.

Please, I need help here, Pirbid or Cedars, can't I just email all the images and you add it. I'm truly not a computor wizz, only a glorified gardener.

I will host this first lot on Google docs. the link:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZyuZ ... hyNw&hl=en


Let us start by looking at the Fool.

Blessed be

[cedars]

Payewacker, please email them to me and I will see what I can do.

I am sure Pirbid has got hidden computer talents too as she used to attach a lot of pictures in the past.

[pirbid]

I finally managed through a rather tedious process, but I'm afraid it's the one they explained to me when I first started posting on the board.
I have an account on ImageShack where I can upload my images. These I get from Google, mostly. So what I did was Google the Fool for each of the Tarots mentioned by PW, save them as images -jpg- in my Mac, then upload them one by one on to ImageShack. Once there, I just copy the links provided for forums and... voilà!


Here are the Sola Busca Fool, or Mato, the Thoth's Fool and the RW we all know and love  :smt002

[cedars]

Well done Pirbid!


The Mato Fool does not say much to me; it does not speak to me with the same insight as RW Fool. However, it may mean something different to the RW's Fool.  At first glance I get impressions of someone timid, scared and hesitant.

With the Thoth's Fool, I get the feeling of someone strong, defying the elements (lion etc) and sort of in a whirlwind.

The RW Fool gives me the feeling of the uncaring, risk-taker, going towards the unknown and also, at times, the foolish in the real sense of the word.

I am not looking into symbolism here at all. The initial and first impact I get.

[Payewacker]

AHA, Pirbid, your'e a star.

Can we assume you will be assisting with uploading these images as we go along? One thing forsure, they are far clearer than the ones I have. Cedars, I'm going to mail it to you as well.

Ok, so i'm going to remove the link to Google docs, and rather do my posting here!

BTW, there are more than one version of all the cards in the Thoth deck! Some even eight, will look it up.

Blessed be.

[Payewacker]

What happened to the Thoth Fool?

[pirbid]

What happened to the Thoth Fool?

I am not aware of anything happening to the image, but sometimes it takes a little time to load them on the page when you first enter it. I see all three of them fine now. I have seen different color versions of this card, but the image is essentially the same.

I have no trouble posting images as you advance through the decks, as long as you are not in a terrible hurry. It takes a little time for the whole process to be completed, and that is assuming Firefox doesn't suddenly break down, as it did today while I was in the middle of the process!  :smt019
But don't worry, I will look out for your posts on this subject and try to keep up with you.

I agree with Cedars that one would get very different impressions on a reading depending on the deck used.

While the Mato certainly looks less active than our RW, his pose is familiar, because the medieval looking versions, like Marseilles, are far more static. Since the Sola Busca depicts known Roman characters, I guess this must be one of them, probably linked to a myth like story. He reminds me of a shepherd, with the torn red tunic and the flute, but also a soldier or even the god Mercury, with his winged helmet. And... I just noticed the raven on his shoulder! Doesn't it make you think of the Viking god Odin? Funny how the raven seems to substitute the dog, a much more common animal to be found in most decks.

On the other hand, Thoth's Fool reminds me much more of the powerful Magician, looking straight out at us and seemingly working his magic on the elements. He seems to have a feline going at him instead of the dog, but quite out of proportion. And I certainly hope PW is up to explaining the mysterious symbol between his legs, won't you, PayeWacker?  :smt017

Then my dear RW Fool seems to be one of the few defenders of suicide -literal or not-, or maybe aloofness and carelessness to the point of danger. But he is such an innocent and happy-go-lucky guy that his mutt adores him -doesn't bite him, as in other decks- and even the sun shines brighter on him

[cedars]

I agree with your sentiments about these Fools Pirbid. Same as mine..

[Payewacker]

Hi Guys.

I did a comparison, edited it, and tried to post when, my phone went into a spasmodic, no-go!

I was a bit tired and thought to redo this whole bloody thing. I always do it on docs and then copy and paste, but allas, the grey matter was on Ur-Anus!!!

Will post just now.

Blessed be

[pirbid]

Jeez, PW, and to think I was complaining about my Firefox problems... I also had a good laugh with your planetary reference.

Your connection must be something out of the Flintstones. You keep having so much trouble with it. I had no trouble looking at your link in Google. It might be easier for you to post there and give us the link, so we can follow your explanations. Just an idea.

Good luck with the quirky machine!  :smt002

[Payewacker]

Hi Pirbid, well I can sponsor your free flight to this home planet. I have to warn you, that it's fairly dark, at times, and a bit windy. We farm with rotten eggs! .



So here we have it. Looking at the cards, we see that we have three totally different images. Pirbid, you loaded a 2nd or third or eight version of the Fool as seen in The Thoth deck. For interest, the RW also has more than one version, in the process of creating. To create the Thoth deck, took five years as opposed to the estimated six months Lady Harris must have been very, very, very patient with Crowley’s whims and fancies, he was a “controversial” person! Let me tell you, it takes me a few years to complete one painting, so, I will not even attempt to imagine her frustration. I would’ve told him to go whistle  ------ through his ++++++, make no mistake! Cedars, that is why your colors don’t always correspond,

First things first, the numbering is distinctive, RW and SB share Zero. We see a Raven or Crow on the shoulder of the SB, what are the bag pipes for? Could that be “blowing air into your own ego?”  For interest, we have these birds living in London Tower and are protected by decree of the Queen!

In the SB we see the Fool is scantly dressed, not as effeminate as RW, and in Thoth, he has horns as the Devil. The Crow, the dog and the lion would most probably symbolise the same “recollection” In the SB, the Fool is walking on a fairly flat surface, but we see the indication of this land ending in a few steps, and as in the RW, this person is totally unaware of his immediate fate. Looking at Crowley’s Fool. AHA, the Witches Tarot copied the envelope, or letter in the right hand. All-in-all, this Fool is skidding straight out of the card, with a potential problem in the short Wands under his sphere. Notwithstanding what is growing or pinned under the peeping hole?
We see that RW and AC decks, has the “motley or flamboyant clothing” although only suggested in the Thoth deck, the “umbrella-like” structure above the head of the Lion, or perhaps Leopard? This “cat” has a very specific meaning, which I will research; it must have an Egyptian connotation. The image however does not “really correspond to, much of the images I can recollect in Egyptian Hieroglyphs”. Once again Cedars, this is where you can give us a lot more info. .

Looking more at Thoth, we see butterflies to the right of the Fool, also. Butterflies or Sylphs are the elemental spirit of Air. The white dove, we also find this image on the Ace of Cups? What is the significance of the “sphere” Is this perhaps innocence and “Air”. To the left of all the Fools we find “fertility”. What about the head-dress, why has AC got horns. Look at SB and RW, a “feather”

The question I ask; “Where does the Fool come from?”  Looking at RW deck, we can assume, from an affluent family, so, the “stepping-out” into the unknown. The dog, is not a puppy, but a fully grown dog, and to me, would signify a sense of wisdom, being departed by the dog, of whom, the Fool actually totally ignore. So prudent or proper planning is not the Fools consideration whatsoever! The dog is also white, a connection to the white dove? What about the white rose being held by the RW in his left hand? This is the symbol of wisdom and innocence, as seen in the Rosicrucian “Rosy-cross” And, voila, under the Thoth Fool.

BUT!  Reverse the Thoth Fool. Look at that which is between his legs. Firstly the over-all sign, resembles Aiyin  ג  Then, the one branch is Shin ש  and the other Zain   ז.

Are we still on the same page?
Now,
The path of Aiyin (26 and 16) is between Tiphareth and Hod! Linked to the Tower Card, and is the main path, the others are branches within this path.  
The path of Shin (31 and 21), is between Hod and Malkuth and linked to the World card.
The path of Zain (17 and 7), is between Binah and Tiphareth and linked to the Chariot card.

Here now, find the controversy. The card you posted Pirbid is assigned---0----. The card I have is assigned     Aleph   א


Let us now examine Aleph.  This letter consists of two Yods and Vav. It says “As above, so below” The Tetragrammaton or 26 letter name of God is displayed in Yod—10+Yod—10+Vav—6= 26. Can we then equate the Fool to God, or is the one capable of creation, actually the Magician?

Now looking at the image I have of the Thoth Fool, attached to Aleph, and for that matter the others as well, we find “the colour yellow” ------PIRBID----- What’s to be made of this?

Looking at the Path of Ayin, brings us back to the discussions on the Tower, Moon and Death Cards!!


Blessed be

[Payewacker]

Guys,

SORRY,

Size counts, but oooooooh

Blessed be.

[pirbid]

Sorry, since I am not familiar with the Thoth deck, I wasn't ready to notice the subtle differences in the different versions. Most images are too small to notice detail. I would need the original deck, I guess. Let's see if I can find a sample of the Thoth Fool with Aleph instead of 0.

This one is a little bigger, so we can see slightly better detail. It is numbered both as 0 -above- and Aleph -underneath-, so it is probably still not the original deck by Crowley. But it is listed as such on Aeclectic. Actually, I remember Sweetsunray has this deck. She actually posted several cards of it on this thread: http://mysticboard.org/vi ... ay+crowley    -it took me ages to find the post!-

PW, thank you for clarifying -somewhat- the symbol between the poor guy's legs

[Payewacker]

Hi Pirbid, yep, there we go!

Now Lemonpip had a discussion regarding nuts with Cedars at some point, she indicated that they really squeeze it well into some plastic bag. I wonder if this would have any relevance? It's for sale on street corners I THINK!

THE CONTROVERCY!

How can The Magician rule the Aces, when he is number two. Two is normally thought, coupled with motion to create three, the first result? In fact then Amoeba, splitting and then mating to derive the third, and so on?

Also have a look at the bottom of the Card, the triangle, it's symbolic to air.

Now look at the Masonic significance.

Triangle
Wherever expressed in Freemasonry, whether by reference to the number three, or the position of any three objects, the symbol is of Deity. (See Lesser Lights.) Throughout the Craft emphasis is put upon the number three; three Lights, greater and lesser; three steps on the Master's Carpet; three steps at the beginning of the Winding Stairs; three principal officers; three degrees; three due guards; etc., etc. The number three is but another way of expressing the idea of a triangle, earliest symbol for Deity, inasmuch as it is the simplest closed figure (signifying endlessness) which can be formed of straight lines. The emphasis upon three, or the triangle, is Freemasonry's symbol of Deity-being without beginning or ending.

Something to ponder about the "feline"

Lion of the Tribe of Judah
(See Lion's Paw.) Symbol of the Messiah, which can have different names for brethren of different religions. Judah was symbolized as a lion in his father's deathbed blessing. The lion was upon the standard of the large and powerful tribe of Judah. "Lion of the Tribe of Judah" was one of Solomon's titles. Christian interpretation of the phrase springs from Revelation (V: 5), "Behold the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof." The idea of a resurrection is curiously interwoven with the lion in all ages and was connected with resurrection long before the Man of Galilee walked upon the earth. In ancient Egypt, a lion raised Osiris from a dead level to a living perpendicular by a grip of his paw; Egyptian carvings show a figure standing behind the Altar, observing the raising of the dead, with its left arm raised, forming the angle of a square. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah, considered as signifying a coming redeemer who would spring from the tribe, or meaning the King of Israel who built the Temple, or symbolizing the Christ, must not be confused with a mode of recognition.

We will still discuss "Jacob's ladder" also......

Blessed be.