My readings or my friend's readings?
I am a beginner and she is a beginner. Though she's always one of the people that think they always have right. I got some tarot readings from her today and then I got home, set the same questions and got completely opposite results. I'm confused and I have no idea who is biased most of us, how the cards actually work...
But one thing is certain, that this is not an "interpretation" difference. For the same question about me she had the card Four of Swords whereas I got Two of Cups.
She looks so forward to saying to me "See, I had right" that I'm almost tempted to pay a visit to a proffesional Tarot reader that she pais much respect for and double check the same questions...But maybe a bit idiotic to do this? I seriously don't like being affected and confused in this way :(
Who to believe?
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Rhutobello
- Posts: 10724
- Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:39 pm
The answer is simple.....both of you might be right....or none of you might be right....the clue holder is the one who has been read....who must fulfil any reading...by either work toward it.....or work away from it.
Tarot or any "Reading tool" are not 9 o'clock news....it show possibilities...but it can never give anything..solve anything...take away anything...without the seekers own doing.
Tarot is in the hands of a newcomer a "strange tool" witch predict a havoc...by infidelity ...loss of money....breakup and so on........IT IS NOT THAT SIMPLE.
What one must do is to learn the basic first.....one way to do it is to write all the clue words on the back of each card...then when you put it down with front up.....you might see if you are right about the clues.
Clues must bee seen in regard to the question asked...and in order to give a good answer, one must have life experiences, one must have the ability to connect....and to evaluate.
Let say you get the clue word.."Death"
Death can be a lot of thing....it can be that an idea should be put away....it can be that the path taken leads to a dead-end...it can be that if you go on you might see the death of a friendship....well you can use your own imagination on it....but if you see my statements then they all start with """It can be" "IF YOU GO ON"....it is the seeker who must fulfil the reading.
When we receive a reading...then we saw an idea in our mind....and our unconscious mind will try to work toward it if it is of value to us...this is the way we fulfil a Reading.
As for Readings of the past.....the more vague the reading is...the more will the seeker fit it into her/his life.....the more detailed the Reading is...the more difficult will it be for the seeker to fit it into his/her life.
So have this in mind...ONLY YOU are in control of your life....NO MATTER what any Reading Tells you.....so the only Person who can tell if a Reading is Good or Not...is the SEEKER.......by his/her own action
Tarot or any "Reading tool" are not 9 o'clock news....it show possibilities...but it can never give anything..solve anything...take away anything...without the seekers own doing.
Tarot is in the hands of a newcomer a "strange tool" witch predict a havoc...by infidelity ...loss of money....breakup and so on........IT IS NOT THAT SIMPLE.
What one must do is to learn the basic first.....one way to do it is to write all the clue words on the back of each card...then when you put it down with front up.....you might see if you are right about the clues.
Clues must bee seen in regard to the question asked...and in order to give a good answer, one must have life experiences, one must have the ability to connect....and to evaluate.
Let say you get the clue word.."Death"
Death can be a lot of thing....it can be that an idea should be put away....it can be that the path taken leads to a dead-end...it can be that if you go on you might see the death of a friendship....well you can use your own imagination on it....but if you see my statements then they all start with """It can be" "IF YOU GO ON"....it is the seeker who must fulfil the reading.
When we receive a reading...then we saw an idea in our mind....and our unconscious mind will try to work toward it if it is of value to us...this is the way we fulfil a Reading.
As for Readings of the past.....the more vague the reading is...the more will the seeker fit it into her/his life.....the more detailed the Reading is...the more difficult will it be for the seeker to fit it into his/her life.
So have this in mind...ONLY YOU are in control of your life....NO MATTER what any Reading Tells you.....so the only Person who can tell if a Reading is Good or Not...is the SEEKER.......by his/her own action
Hi Rhutobello,
Manyt thanks for your fantastic post. I moste certailny understand what you write and I think I also had started having this feeling about the Tarot cards. Correct me if I'm wrong...but they are simply NOT destiny cards. Have I understood correctly? Cause if they were then no matter what the seeker does the outcome will be the same.
This is the difference betwee my and my friend's way of reading. She's insisting that whatever I do this is how it will be. And the reason I'm confused is because she's like that as a person, very confident about herself and what she knows. And since I'm a beginner I can easily become lost on how to interpret Readings.
I understand then that if the clue holder is the seeker, then how can a "professional Tarot Reader" tell me about my life better than I can when reading the cards?
And why many people think that one should never read the cards for themselves? Is it because of biased thoughts and feelings? In that case, maybe I should not trust "friends" because who knows what they wish for when it comes to me.
Manyt thanks for your fantastic post. I moste certailny understand what you write and I think I also had started having this feeling about the Tarot cards. Correct me if I'm wrong...but they are simply NOT destiny cards. Have I understood correctly? Cause if they were then no matter what the seeker does the outcome will be the same.
This is the difference betwee my and my friend's way of reading. She's insisting that whatever I do this is how it will be. And the reason I'm confused is because she's like that as a person, very confident about herself and what she knows. And since I'm a beginner I can easily become lost on how to interpret Readings.
I understand then that if the clue holder is the seeker, then how can a "professional Tarot Reader" tell me about my life better than I can when reading the cards?
And why many people think that one should never read the cards for themselves? Is it because of biased thoughts and feelings? In that case, maybe I should not trust "friends" because who knows what they wish for when it comes to me.
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Rhutobello
- Posts: 10724
- Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:39 pm
Since we all create our life as we go....nothing in the future can be firm, other then death.
Each day we take many decisions which change our path, and with more then 6 billion people, and each and one of them would change 1 thing, then that would be enough to change any laid outcome...because the impact of each one is like a stone in water, it goes outwards.
We are depending on machines.....we are influenced by peace and war..we are influenced by our own and the global economy....we are influenced on where we are born, which government there is...there is so many thing that influence each and one of us....so when people say you can't avoid a Reading...then I say CRAP!
You as person is responsible for your actions....if there was something above that we could never avoid (except death) then we could not be responsible for our actions....because who can tell when this firm laid action take place...and not our own will?
Of course, there is big difference in people....and so also in Readers.
Some are able to connect much better to the seeker then other.
Some are much better to word their readings, then other.
Some can evaluate what is told, and from that draw a possible solution that will come if the path is followed.
and so can it go on and on....I have found something on the net that might explain some of it;
________________
selective thinking
Selective thinking is the process whereby one selects out favorable evidence for remembrance and focus, while ignoring unfavorable evidence for a belief. This kind of thinking is the basis for most beliefs in the psychic powers of so-called mind readers and mediums. It is also the basis for many, if not most, occult and pseudoscientific beliefs.
It should be noted that selective thinking works independently of wishful thinking and should not be confused with biased thinking, whereby one seriously considers data contrary to one's belief, but one is much more critical of such data than one is of supportive data.
_________________
So always carry in mind that YOU are the most important Person in YOUR life.....YOU might fulfil a Reading....YOU might avoid a Reading....it is your own action that count in the end.....not what cards is put down....Use the card good....use them to improve your life....by evaluating any "Spread together with the Question"......then you acheive one GREAT benefit.....THE THINKING....to see possible paths, BUT to avoid firm Conclusions !
Good luck.
Each day we take many decisions which change our path, and with more then 6 billion people, and each and one of them would change 1 thing, then that would be enough to change any laid outcome...because the impact of each one is like a stone in water, it goes outwards.
We are depending on machines.....we are influenced by peace and war..we are influenced by our own and the global economy....we are influenced on where we are born, which government there is...there is so many thing that influence each and one of us....so when people say you can't avoid a Reading...then I say CRAP!
You as person is responsible for your actions....if there was something above that we could never avoid (except death) then we could not be responsible for our actions....because who can tell when this firm laid action take place...and not our own will?
Of course, there is big difference in people....and so also in Readers.
Some are able to connect much better to the seeker then other.
Some are much better to word their readings, then other.
Some can evaluate what is told, and from that draw a possible solution that will come if the path is followed.
and so can it go on and on....I have found something on the net that might explain some of it;
________________
selective thinking
Selective thinking is the process whereby one selects out favorable evidence for remembrance and focus, while ignoring unfavorable evidence for a belief. This kind of thinking is the basis for most beliefs in the psychic powers of so-called mind readers and mediums. It is also the basis for many, if not most, occult and pseudoscientific beliefs.
It should be noted that selective thinking works independently of wishful thinking and should not be confused with biased thinking, whereby one seriously considers data contrary to one's belief, but one is much more critical of such data than one is of supportive data.
_________________
So always carry in mind that YOU are the most important Person in YOUR life.....YOU might fulfil a Reading....YOU might avoid a Reading....it is your own action that count in the end.....not what cards is put down....Use the card good....use them to improve your life....by evaluating any "Spread together with the Question"......then you acheive one GREAT benefit.....THE THINKING....to see possible paths, BUT to avoid firm Conclusions !
Good luck.
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Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
Hi Iokasti,
What Rhuto said is totally the way you should consider Psychic things to work, unpredictable, confusing and outright at times not to be trusted!
I have a friend, although now many kilometers away, thank God! She lived two houses from me, and I found out only later that she does Tarot. She also didn't know I do Tarot.
It ended up a hastle to go to their house, I was actually more friends with her husband--almost a brothership! Anyway, she would get me there and ask me to "read" on a number of issues, sometimes having to do ten or more spreads. (She was still learning).
BUT.......
She would have all her own books beside her and as I read and interpret she would disagree and "think" it might be sus or so! That truly pissed me off, and one day when she asked again, I said I stopped reading Tarot.
The lesson on this is simple;
1) Don't let a friend read for you, they are biased as they know you to well, Don't read for a close friend, as you may be biased and know them too well!
2) Reading for yourself is not to be trusted at all (my opinion)! You will see what you want to see and ignore the rest. Although later you will see, the cards were right, but your eyes were closed! WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE!!!!
As Rhuto said, learn the Tarot, don't compare notes with your friend, it's a private "thing" and you will read a different way than she does. So, you will always walk away confused! If she says she knows, let her go to some of my posts "What you want to learn about Tarot" and the forum "Tarot discussions and ideas". I have only scratched the surface and are continuously learning, so are we all only students.
Now you ask, "Who to believe?" my answer-- Who do you want to believe?
Please, stay an active member on MB, follow our discussions, get involved, and surely you will enjoy a world you though was "mystic" and for the few.
Blessed be.
What Rhuto said is totally the way you should consider Psychic things to work, unpredictable, confusing and outright at times not to be trusted!
I have a friend, although now many kilometers away, thank God! She lived two houses from me, and I found out only later that she does Tarot. She also didn't know I do Tarot.
It ended up a hastle to go to their house, I was actually more friends with her husband--almost a brothership! Anyway, she would get me there and ask me to "read" on a number of issues, sometimes having to do ten or more spreads. (She was still learning).
BUT.......
She would have all her own books beside her and as I read and interpret she would disagree and "think" it might be sus or so! That truly pissed me off, and one day when she asked again, I said I stopped reading Tarot.
The lesson on this is simple;
1) Don't let a friend read for you, they are biased as they know you to well, Don't read for a close friend, as you may be biased and know them too well!
2) Reading for yourself is not to be trusted at all (my opinion)! You will see what you want to see and ignore the rest. Although later you will see, the cards were right, but your eyes were closed! WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE!!!!
As Rhuto said, learn the Tarot, don't compare notes with your friend, it's a private "thing" and you will read a different way than she does. So, you will always walk away confused! If she says she knows, let her go to some of my posts "What you want to learn about Tarot" and the forum "Tarot discussions and ideas". I have only scratched the surface and are continuously learning, so are we all only students.
Now you ask, "Who to believe?" my answer-- Who do you want to believe?
Please, stay an active member on MB, follow our discussions, get involved, and surely you will enjoy a world you though was "mystic" and for the few.
Blessed be.
Do as you want, Harm none!
Re: Who to believe?
the future is not predestined, so i believe, so the tarot is not either. you first reading told you things. now you are aware hence begins to influence your future therefore your second reading reflects that so of course the second reading is different from the first. :smt002Iokasti wrote:My readings or my friend's readings?
I am a beginner and she is a beginner. Though she's always one of the people that think they always have right. I got some tarot readings from her today and then I got home, set the same questions and got completely opposite results. I'm confused and I have no idea who is biased most of us, how the cards actually work...
But one thing is certain, that this is not an "interpretation" difference. For the same question about me she had the card Four of Swords whereas I got Two of Cups.
She looks so forward to saying to me "See, I had right" that I'm almost tempted to pay a visit to a proffesional Tarot reader that she pais much respect for and double check the same questions...But maybe a bit idiotic to do this? I seriously don't like being affected and confused in this way :(
Common sense dictates there is no such thing as common sense.
My comments will not be much different from those already said by my friends here.
If your friend is so big-headed that she always believes what she 'read' to be correct and firm, then I you should not have any readings by her - Never! This is not a race or a competition as to who is right or wrong.
I also suggest you do not read for yourself as that will - as said by previous contributors - give rather a biased opinion about your own self-reading.
I do not wish to go on and on as the previous contributors have said all the right things.
Stay on on this site and you will make some good friends and also get to know the tarot better or under a different light.
Cheers.
If your friend is so big-headed that she always believes what she 'read' to be correct and firm, then I you should not have any readings by her - Never! This is not a race or a competition as to who is right or wrong.
I also suggest you do not read for yourself as that will - as said by previous contributors - give rather a biased opinion about your own self-reading.
I do not wish to go on and on as the previous contributors have said all the right things.
Stay on on this site and you will make some good friends and also get to know the tarot better or under a different light.
Cheers.
Who to Believe?
All of the posts here are valid - yes, we can let our own ego/wishes interfere with the interpretation of the cards when reading for ourselves and so can close friends. However, I would also like to point out that both of these cards (2 of Cups and 4 of Swords) have a common theme of HEALING. The 2 of Cups has a caduceus above the couple...this is a symbol of healing. Since it is a cups card and the number 2 this suggests healing through relationship. The 4 of Swords is also about healing - healing of the mind. I'm not sure what your reading was about, but you might want to consider this "healing" element...
Thank you all for your so very good advice!
Rhutobello you have actually answered my question and cleared up many of my confusions. Of course, everyone has their own opinions abut how Tarot cards work and how one should go about things with them. But I feel that they are not destiny cards, and that one can understand more about an issue by the help of the cards. And that our actions are what's important at the end of the day as you very well say.
One thing that still confuses me though is that I'm not sure whether a completely uknown person to me should read the cards for me, or it should be me reading the cards for myself. I understand that there are drawbacks and positives in both cases. Also I understand that people can be very very smart. I never underestimate the smartness of a person. And you have to be smart if you choose to read the Tarot cards for someone that you have never met before. So, what are some hints that I should look for when someone else is doing a reading for me? Hints that would show if the person actually IS a respectful tarot reader or if that person is one like my friend? Or just someone that is just trying to get some clues from me by indirect questions, and combine it with their previous experiences and moral standards? You see, I have tried quite several readers here and there. And they all have a different approach. From "that's your life in the future, and no matter what you do, that's how it's gonna be" to psychoanalysis of me as a person.
Wildfire, I had no idea about the healing element. It just shows how much I need to be on forums like that if I really want to become a better reader myself. The question was what/how a person feels about me, and whereas my friend got ace of pentacles and four of swords, I later on got for myself, seven of cups and two of cups. It is true that the relationship between me and that person is not very good and has suffered quite a lot...
Rhutobello you have actually answered my question and cleared up many of my confusions. Of course, everyone has their own opinions abut how Tarot cards work and how one should go about things with them. But I feel that they are not destiny cards, and that one can understand more about an issue by the help of the cards. And that our actions are what's important at the end of the day as you very well say.
One thing that still confuses me though is that I'm not sure whether a completely uknown person to me should read the cards for me, or it should be me reading the cards for myself. I understand that there are drawbacks and positives in both cases. Also I understand that people can be very very smart. I never underestimate the smartness of a person. And you have to be smart if you choose to read the Tarot cards for someone that you have never met before. So, what are some hints that I should look for when someone else is doing a reading for me? Hints that would show if the person actually IS a respectful tarot reader or if that person is one like my friend? Or just someone that is just trying to get some clues from me by indirect questions, and combine it with their previous experiences and moral standards? You see, I have tried quite several readers here and there. And they all have a different approach. From "that's your life in the future, and no matter what you do, that's how it's gonna be" to psychoanalysis of me as a person.
Wildfire, I had no idea about the healing element. It just shows how much I need to be on forums like that if I really want to become a better reader myself. The question was what/how a person feels about me, and whereas my friend got ace of pentacles and four of swords, I later on got for myself, seven of cups and two of cups. It is true that the relationship between me and that person is not very good and has suffered quite a lot...
It was said the thoughts of the reader effect the balance of Tarot.,
It was also said the reader should not be biased nor over confident
and should clear all personal thoughts from the mind to associate a
tarot reading with the guide playing spirit as to the draw and not be
associate with the reader as personal thoughts and difficulty affect : the reading as sign of harboring thoughts. Evard
It was also said the reader should not be biased nor over confident
and should clear all personal thoughts from the mind to associate a
tarot reading with the guide playing spirit as to the draw and not be
associate with the reader as personal thoughts and difficulty affect : the reading as sign of harboring thoughts. Evard
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Payewacker
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am
Hi,
You have touched on a few issues that would concern a few people when approaching someone to do a reading for them.
You said "The person must be very very smart"--In this I gather you mean "Intelligent" Yes you may be right, Tarot also includes Intelligence, to bring together a set of cards and make sense from them, however it is not necessary. Readers should base readings on intuition, intelligence and practical application. A reader must have good knowledge of the cards, their meaning and how to determine what they are telling you.
You also said "
If the cards don't talk to me, I don't force a reading, it will be off--base completely! Sometimes it takes a few days and nights, a few spreads and only when I feel comfortable, will I do the reading.
For us to tell you how to recognise a respected reader---IMPOSSIBLE! Every reader can be good or excellent, but every reader can also have off days and be totally shitty, off base and disrespected by the guest?
Money grabbers? always around!! They will read for you at the drop of a hat? How respected they are, no-one knows? A reader should be kind, generous and professional, how you determine that is how you do it, we can't give you guidance.
One thing you need to remember, going to plenty readers will most definitely confuse you, what will you believe, what are you going to attract, how are you going to deal with what each one says?
On this board are very talented readers, we are recognised World-wide, ask no money, read because we love Tarot, and the community we represent. I wonder if they will be prepared to do a reading for you now? Too many rankatanks!!
Reading for yourself:
How many times must we tell you, it doesn't work!!! We know, been there, done it and so we have experience---IT DOESN'T WORK---PERIOD!!!!!!!.
Your friend, you and Tarot:
You say the relationship between you and her is not SOUND, so why on earth would you trust what she says, Goodness me, she will want to break you down, even if she "says" she is not biased. Honestly, I won't want her to read for me, just now I'm damned to Hades!!!
Learning Tarot:
The way to learn Tarot is to be involved in Tarot. By this I don't mean you have to be sitting infront of your deck, open readings for fictitiousness people and so on,, no, you must enjoy the experience. Let me tell you, it will change your life, you will see things in a different light. You gain WISDOM from the Tarot. Don't sit and compare yourself to another. The Tarot is not a race, it's not a competition, ask yourself--- What will I gain? Take your time, enjoy what you learn and work from there. In your entire life, you will never know everything about Tarot, it's enlightening to some, scary to others and wisdom to the few! Where do you want to be?
On MB, you have a wealth of knowledge, all you need to do, is to ask, search a bit, and voila, you will learn!
I really hope we can give you guidance through your study of the "unknown".
Blessed be.
You have touched on a few issues that would concern a few people when approaching someone to do a reading for them.
You said "The person must be very very smart"--In this I gather you mean "Intelligent" Yes you may be right, Tarot also includes Intelligence, to bring together a set of cards and make sense from them, however it is not necessary. Readers should base readings on intuition, intelligence and practical application. A reader must have good knowledge of the cards, their meaning and how to determine what they are telling you.
You also said "
Tarot readers or Tarotists are also psychiatrists in a sense. We work with what we are presented in the cards, but, we don't need to ask many questions to get to a conclusion. If we interpret the cards, the question you have, should be answered, and or other matters will also be discussed, without too many questions. We truly don't need the guidance from our Guest. Then, a very important thing is that not all spreads give you the answer at the time it was packed! That is why, no Tarot reader can ever tell you, "this is how it is!!" NO, NO!!!Or just someone that is just trying to get some clues from me by indirect questions, and combine it with their previous experiences and moral standards? You see, I have tried quite several readers here and there. And they all have a different approach. From "that's your life in the future, and no matter what you do, that's how it's gonna be" to psychoanalysis of me as a person.
If the cards don't talk to me, I don't force a reading, it will be off--base completely! Sometimes it takes a few days and nights, a few spreads and only when I feel comfortable, will I do the reading.
For us to tell you how to recognise a respected reader---IMPOSSIBLE! Every reader can be good or excellent, but every reader can also have off days and be totally shitty, off base and disrespected by the guest?
Money grabbers? always around!! They will read for you at the drop of a hat? How respected they are, no-one knows? A reader should be kind, generous and professional, how you determine that is how you do it, we can't give you guidance.
One thing you need to remember, going to plenty readers will most definitely confuse you, what will you believe, what are you going to attract, how are you going to deal with what each one says?
On this board are very talented readers, we are recognised World-wide, ask no money, read because we love Tarot, and the community we represent. I wonder if they will be prepared to do a reading for you now? Too many rankatanks!!
Reading for yourself:
How many times must we tell you, it doesn't work!!! We know, been there, done it and so we have experience---IT DOESN'T WORK---PERIOD!!!!!!!.
Your friend, you and Tarot:
You say the relationship between you and her is not SOUND, so why on earth would you trust what she says, Goodness me, she will want to break you down, even if she "says" she is not biased. Honestly, I won't want her to read for me, just now I'm damned to Hades!!!
Learning Tarot:
The way to learn Tarot is to be involved in Tarot. By this I don't mean you have to be sitting infront of your deck, open readings for fictitiousness people and so on,, no, you must enjoy the experience. Let me tell you, it will change your life, you will see things in a different light. You gain WISDOM from the Tarot. Don't sit and compare yourself to another. The Tarot is not a race, it's not a competition, ask yourself--- What will I gain? Take your time, enjoy what you learn and work from there. In your entire life, you will never know everything about Tarot, it's enlightening to some, scary to others and wisdom to the few! Where do you want to be?
On MB, you have a wealth of knowledge, all you need to do, is to ask, search a bit, and voila, you will learn!
I really hope we can give you guidance through your study of the "unknown".
Blessed be.
Iokasti
I was a bit disappointed, after all said and done, you still questioned your friend's ability, reading for yourself and, and..... and..... I dare say your mention of of the word ''intelligence'' into the equation. Intuition, psychic ability, does not need intelligence in my humble opinion. It does need sensitivity, understanding and an important element - intuition.
There is not much I can add to what Payewacker has already said here.
Just read and read and read about the tarot cards. There is a wealth of knowledge on the Net and on this site.
We will be more than happy to assist and exchange ideas.
Good day to you.
I was a bit disappointed, after all said and done, you still questioned your friend's ability, reading for yourself and, and..... and..... I dare say your mention of of the word ''intelligence'' into the equation. Intuition, psychic ability, does not need intelligence in my humble opinion. It does need sensitivity, understanding and an important element - intuition.
There is not much I can add to what Payewacker has already said here.
Just read and read and read about the tarot cards. There is a wealth of knowledge on the Net and on this site.
We will be more than happy to assist and exchange ideas.
Good day to you.
I'm sorry cedars to dissapoint you. The whole tarot reading thing is not as straight forward as it has become for all you experts. I am a beginner and I'm having a difficulty understanding, and I'm very keen on learning and understanding. Also, I'm an engineer and a pianist and I am a person that processes everything that is been said to me as the "correct" and "right".
All of the answers given above were indeed extremely helpful and I have allready lots of things to think about. I guess then I can print them out and read them carefully before I give a reply that repeats the same questions.
Thanks again!
All of the answers given above were indeed extremely helpful and I have allready lots of things to think about. I guess then I can print them out and read them carefully before I give a reply that repeats the same questions.
Thanks again!
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