Does the Divine pre-determine our Destiny?

[PeterS]

In another forum, Sunseep Dunsal said:

It is awfull not to believe in destiny & divine sciences like astrology or numerology at an astrological site like this.

I hope that I didn't "butcher" his (her?) name :/ I have moved this discussion here as it seems to be more appropriate

I was of the understanding that this was a place to have intelligent, fair discussion of various topics metaphysical and spiritual, I am not wrong, am I?

My Belief System (Condensed ;) : 1. The Divine is Infinite. 2. The Divine is Love.

If the Divine "pre-determines" our destiny either before or at birth, then what is the point? Life would make no sense other than the Divine has things to show us until we go wherever we go when we leave Planet Earth. And then we would (in theory, my assumption) come back for another lesson WITHOUT the chance to change the outcome and (therefore) learn by making mistakes. That is how we learn. I don't know about you but when I do something well, I feel great and don't learn very much.

So, if The Divine is Infinite, then wouldn't it make more sense for The Divine to allow us "free will" and adjust the flow of life on Planet Earth based on those choices as they are (or will be) made?

Example: I'm walking down the street and someone pulls a gun and tries to rob me. Was this the Divine's fault? No, of course not. Maybe the robber was legitimately hungry and didn't know how to ask politely (not likely, but it's POSSILBE). Maybe the Divine directed the robber to me knowing that I had extra money that day.

Is it the robber's fault for not going out and getting a JOB? Most certainly Is it my fault for walking into the bad part of town? That's at least part of it. Is it possible that the Divine wants to encourage me to learn how to defend myself because the Divine knows that I will REALLY need to know how to do that next week (next year)? Possibly.

My point here is that if the Divine has pre-determined my destiny already, then I do not have free-will....the choice to choose between Good and Evil...at any time of the day. If that is true, then didn't the Divine just nullify my will, my chance to learn from this experience called life?

Sincerly,

Peter Shogren

[spiritalk]

Perhaps there is a balance between destiny and determination?  I believe we have life patterns...we can choose the material we place it upon.  

I do not see God sitting on his throne meting out justice with a couple of barrels and scoops.  You get a scoop of love for that action.  Or you get a scoop of judgement for that action.  It just doesn't work that way!

But there is justice and it is divine.  It is beyond our understanding of ALL things.  But what we do know is how we 'feel' when we have followed a plan of love and when we have not.  And this is the balance of justice we will take with us to see how well we did in our lifetime.  

And do we have many?  IME we do not.  I see the spirit realms as learning grounds well beyond this kindergarten we call life on earth.  I look forward to progress in a spiritual way without the physical/material urges that keep us 'stuck' in physical responses and answers.

And is their judgements?  Yes, I believe we judge ourselves so that we learn from where we must go to learn loving attention to ourselves and others.  As we grow spiritually, we send apologies to those we have wronged and love to those we know we have encouraged and loved.  Answer we must...through our own personal responsibility.

Just some thoughts...

[rasika]

This question keeps haunting me also. I have tried to gather my views based upon the knowledge I sought from various sources on the subject. Before our birth we decided to learn or experience a particular aspect to seek perfection  to become like the supreme power or evolution towards godliness or becoming god which is the ultimate goal. We select such circumstances as kind of parents, country, home and persons we are going to encounter throughout that particular incarnation in which we wish to learn or have that experience. May be those other souls have the same desire. Then what the almighty designs for each of us is the DIVINE PLAN where everything fits just the right way. There is this cosmic conspiracy is that when we we are born, we forget the purpose why we came into this life. Sure, we have free will. If by exercising that free will, we feel happy, complete, paasionate and wholesome then I think we are in sync with the divine plan. However If by exercising that free will, we are unhappy, resentful then only we start seeking divine intervention asking HIM to guide us about our true purpose in life. The more a person feels unhappy, discomfort, hardships in a life time the more away from the source or divine or god he has chosen to experience during that incarnation. The opposite is equally true that more happy and content a person is more closer he has chosen to be or experience near the source. However an awareness of all WHAT IS is what makes the difference. And that awareness of WHAT IS a sense of dettachment and the fact that whatever happening is taking place perfectly as per the DIVINE PLAN hence do not try to control or alter it.

I believe this AWARENESS or REMEMBERING ends all miseries of life.

Thx

Rasika

[spiritalk]

We are all born with many talents, skills, abilities...each of which we can apply to the fabric of our lives.  When we are born into a particular family, lessons surface for our use.  But choosing this family...that I don't buy.  

There are so many people with various talents that never see the light of experience because there is not the resources (financial, emotional, spiritual) to encourage the offspring.  Many people I have met in my lifetime express how they wish they had been born into another family to fulfill their ultimate purpose.  But at the same time, they are doing the best with what they have in experience and talents.

Finding God's plan as opposed to our own unfocused wishes, leads the path of spirituality.  The spirit has no time...we can fulfill anything, anytime...our clocks are only the human invention of time.  Each and every experiences we encounter (no matter how we think it arrives) is a measure of our soul/spirit growth.

[Azhar]

Does the divine pre determines destiny
In my opinion divine pre determines the destiny, as per Islamic point of view  according to Quran , God has written the fate of the universe including each individual, about his life death and his or her role in the Universe.in a book called Lohe-Mehfuz.In fact the foundation of this world has been kept on in-equality to test the humans. We are just sitting in the examination center, and the result would be announced on he day of judgment. A choice has been created between good and bad and has been left for an individual to chose in between them. For example if one is destined to get 100$ today ,he will get it but the system in the process will have two ways one would be a short cut but would be ill- legal, the other would be the right path but full of thorns i.e. he could snatch it from someone or do a days labor to get it but in the end he will get his 100$.Once a similar question was put to the second Caliph Uma who was companion of Prophet Mohammad [pbuh], as well and had defeated Cesar of Rome and Kasra of Iran and ruled from Medina upto China, so as to why when God has taken responsibility to provide food to every individual it is necessary that we should work,to which he replied you will get as destined 99% and remaining 1% is the effort to get it.. Let me tell you another story, once Moses was on his way to sacred mountain to meet the God , on his way he met the Satan, on enquirey by the Satan, he told that he is on his way to meet God, Satan requested him to ask God ‘What was my fault?’, as Satan due to his worships was very closed to God and was degraded and removed from his status by not bowing to God ..As you know God is creator and how can he refuse his creator to whom he had worshipped for thousands of years . Moses when after his meeting  was leaving, was stopped by God and was asked whether he was forgetting something he at once remembered the request of Satan and delivered the question. God replied do not pay attention to what he says as he has been destined to misguide the people. We are all puppets whose strings are in the hands of God and we are moving according to his will.
God in one of his messages to prophet Mohammad[pbuh] about discussing himself said,’ I was an unknown wealth and then I thought that I should be recognized, and therefore I created the world.’
I have come across a Prophet Muhammad[P.B.U.H] saying ,which God had revealed to him , addressing to his believers.’ One is your desire, and one is my desire, and if you insist on your desire, will make you busy in the pursuance of your desire ,in the end it would be my desire which will prevail, and if you will submit yourself to my desire, I will give you ,what you desire'.
This is what my understanding religiously according to Islam.

[Breena]

I believe that we are co-creators of our destiny, after all we have free choice and the choices we make will effect the outcome of our destinies.

[sidewalk_bends]

I have come across a Prophet Muhammad[P.B.U.H] saying ,which God had revealed to him , addressing to his believers.’ One is your desire, and one is my desire, and if you insist on your desire, will make you busy in the pursuance of your desire ,in the end it would be my desire which will prevail, and if you will submit yourself to my desire, I will give you ,what you desire'.

It is interesting that I read this. A friend wrote something similar, but they were not his words. It said, "I am One of Two? You choose?", meaning We are guided from the heart and guided by the mind. God guides through one, and we must choose. The heart is God's desire, the mind is our desire, though God's desire and our desire can be one in the same if we choose, for he has given us freewill.

[spiritalk]

There is a time to be born and a time to die...this is predetermined by God's plan.  

It is the breadth of life....the way we handle all our experiences...that is the measure of our own personal soul.  Being in touch with our own spirituality is the purpose of the life and the accomplishment of spirituality its motive.

Free will choice allows us to choose the way we accomplish all things.  We see God's hand in our lives (or not) according to our own spirituality and free will to work in that plan.

God bless, J