CAN WE CHANGE OUR DESTINY

enumero123 · Post by **enumero123** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:34 pm

If this is true, then all legal systems all over the world must be put down,  (and it should be   injustice is running rapid)   because every law build on the assumption that there is a FREE WILL.   you forgot  GOD   (IN GOD WE TRUST )

If there is NO FREE WILL, then no one can be judged for their actions!    BUT THERE IS FREE WILL   BUT ALSO A  DIVINE PRESENCE

If you say there is is a TINY BIT of FREE WILL present, then Predestination will collapse because the complexity of 7 billion people, together with all our machinery, buildings, nature, predators, germs, "you name it" will make it impossible to micro control the outcome on a single native, and if you can't control every single one...then you can't control any....you just hit the nail now and then, without that become any proof.   (AND THIS IS SO TRUE  THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT IS GOING TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET  WHY YOU ASK  BECUASE  SOME WANT TO TAKE GOD OUIT OF THE PICTURE

The only Predestination we can agree upon is DEATH!...........and lucky enough...we NEVER know when......if we our-self don't interfere.

If you don't agree, then we must stop calling ??????  

 ALL OF THE BELOW  ARE  A DIRECT RESULT OF FREE WILL,, BAD CHOICES ,HUMAN ERROR AND NOT FOLLOWING DIVINE LAW   EGO/SELF  EDGING GOD OUT  EARTH GUIDED ONLY    

(Determinism should not be confused with self-determination)

Terrorist for terrorist....they only fulfill a Predetermination

A Murderer is only one who fulfill his/her task in life....how can we justify to judge him/her...are we above the Universe?

One who become raped...is only done so, because Universe would like to see it done...not because the rapist would have own satisfaction....how can we judge him or her?

War is not made by Man, but by the universe, because Universe would like to decrease some of our numbers.

Car crash is not because of bad driving...it is the will of the Universe.

A plane that crash, or a ship that sink, is only a result of the Universes plan.

and we can go on....but I assume you can see the picture.......but let us not forget.....all of those who involved had it as predestination by birth.....and other who had other predestination would not suffer in war, terror, hunger,you name it.......it is easy to say.......but not so easy to believe ....for me.

Rhutobello · Post by **Rhutobello** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:41 pm

enumero123 wrote:

ALL OF THE BELOW ARE A DIRECT RESULT OF FREE WILL,, BAD CHOICES ,HUMAN ERROR AND NOT FOLLOWING DIVINE LAW EGO/SELF EDGING GOD OUT EARTH GUIDED ONLY
.

Well, then it seems we can agree...there is a FREE WILL.

I have NEVER said that a FREE WILL always are to the good, or that a FREE WILL will make you succeed in everything you want.....BUT FREE WILL give you a choice between those options Life gives you.....FREE WILL promote your initiative because you might believe in a "case" "ability" "education" or whatever and pursue it because YOU YOURSELF want it, and not only because you are told to do it.

If you live by YOUR FREE WILL, you create your own life inside the restrictions that the society put on you, but since all living souls have a FREE WILL, your outcome will be a blend of free will between those people you interact with.....you can't get a job if there are no will from other to give you one.....you can't marry a person if there is no will from the person to marry you.....you can't become a true friend with someone, if not the will is mutual...and so on.

And since the choice is open for the Native, predetermination is impossible because then you had to knew all their choices on beforehand...in order to predict or tell the outcome...that together with all the choices to those the Native interacted with.

As for GOD and belief in the Divine I point to the fact that most Country around the world allow their inhabitants to believe in what suit them best, and they take no stand....further they make own laws that stay above the law of any GOD, and in that you can read that a BELIEF is a BELIEF, but LIFE in it self is REAL, and need firm rules, good or bad (You can elect your government in most Country) because we as NATIVE is unique and act different, and by that need "Rules" to what is allowed.

When that said.....Religion, both major and minor, have up through the years shown they can do a lot of injustice in the name of the LORD.....Further it is proved again and again that they "can collect wealth and land" from their followers with promises about a better afterlife.....most of these values never benefit the congregation itself.

We have also seen leaders of Religions promote own Power and agendas, which not always is in the interest of their LORD, which also show """"FREE WILL""" in a rather bad image.....but again deny Predetermination, because if you knew the outcome..why choose as leader?

Don't take me wrong....I feel that any belief that gives comfort have its right for them it concern....but we must allow that other have other opinions...or Beliefs......and this is just a discussion on that.....in the end...what speak inside you....is the right thing......for you.....but if you never get impulses from outside.....your inside stays in the dark

farthirl · Post by **farthirl** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:35 am

It all comes down to strength of spirit. The stronger a man is spiritually, the more leverage he has to his fate. The weak are destined to be carried away by the tides of Fate. The strong swim, or ride the current where they will.

Strength is freedom. Be strong, and thus be free.

Prof. Akers · Post by **Prof. Akers** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:06 am

Farthirl, please think about what you've written, are you certain you wanted to put the word 'fate' in the same paragraph as the idea of swimming against it.
Fate, destiny all imply a lack of choice - no matter what you or how strong your will is.
We were just talking about this concept at the club last night; one of the ladies had been to a psychic and was being told her boyfriend would return to her and they would get married, which to me at least says that person believed that the future is fixed.

enumero123 · Post by **enumero123** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:07 pm

Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.

"Stairway To Heaven"

There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold
And she's buying the stairway to heaven.
When she gets there she knows, if the stores are all closed
With a word she can get what she came for.
Ooh, ooh, and she's buying the stairway to heaven.

There's a sign on the wall but she wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.
In a tree by the brook, there's a songbird who sings,
Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it makes me wonder.

There's a feeling I get when I look to the west,
And my spirit is crying for leaving.
In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees,
And the voices of those who stand looking.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it really makes me wonder.

And it's whispered that soon if we all call the tune
Then the piper will lead us to reason.
And a new day will dawn for those who stand long
And the forests will echo with laughter.

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,
It's just a spring clean for the May queen.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.

Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know,
The piper's calling you to join him,
Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul.
There walks a lady we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold.
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last.
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll.

And she's buying the stairway to heaven.

Rhutobello · Post by **Rhutobello** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:47 pm

Well...yes...we always have at least two choices....In this case OUR option to chose....will you create your own life...where you are responsible for your action...both in good and bad.....OR will you live the life of other, who tells you the path...but you still NEED to pay the price for the action you do?

Free will is given with a big responsebillity...but if you use it good, you will feel that YOU achieve something.....on the other hand...if you are told what to do...then you just fulfill a task, and will never feel that YOU have achieved anything....because it was already written......maybe you might feel more confusion if you don't manage to fulfill your path .....and start asking why.."".please explain it to me""....""what have other done wrong since it don't happen?"""..(since it is predestination it can't be self that cause it, because then it could not be told to happen in the first place) ..and by that we can see that focus is taken away from oneself and transferred to other.....and if it don't happen...then it only show that the belief was wrong in the first place.....because if it shall have any value...it must happen all the time, and not depend on on actions taken...because then it can't have been "pre written" but just assumed, and the Native try through his/her "free Will" to fulfill the task without knowing it.....and if achieved, not given credit for it.

Freewill

God’s love created mortal man at sea
and gave him only a fine dragnet
but he swam ashore without fins
God became angry and in his rage
carried him to the topmost mountain
again man descended without wings

man now climbs molehills alone
and takes Icarus plunges home
but sustains mortal wounds
in the neck and in the heart
as the sun slowly melts his wings
made of seashells and lion hackles

Man, I salute your crafty freewill
but you must also be careful of height
and dizzy flights near abysmal pits
lest you get lost in the labyrinths
or sucked through the hole you dug
in the ozone layer to shield the sun

Dela Bobobee©
07/07/07

The Choice I Made

There is a certain subtle gourd
created by man and by God
shattered on the rocks of life
splintered into little choices
we all have to make in life

if brain design determines what's moral
you can change morality
by changing the brain
and once technology manipulates ethics
ethics can no longer judge technology

That’s why I chose the noble arts
the only truthful and sane lamp
to brighten the grim dark path
of the much touted science
from self destructive tendencies

the choice I made
shines never to fade

Written by
Dela Bobobee©

Lax29 · Post by **Lax29** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:36 pm

May be a philosophical answer, but there are a bunch of things that are available to you and you will have to choose what you need and what to use. God gives your destiny. You choose if you want to live by it or change it and live the way you want to be. As in life, things given to you will alway be behind you, similarly destiny will also be. You may have to learn how to avoid, accept or change it and minimize any risks later

xilanw · Post by **xilanw** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:20 am

We have no ideas to change our DESTINY, but we can change ourself to be more and more better.

spiritalk · Post by **spiritalk** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:39 pm

As destiny is not a fixed state, the change in ourselves works to create the steps we take on our journey.  Destiny is that journey.

peredhil31 · Post by **peredhil31** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:47 pm

I agree with many of the writers who spoke of free will and choice, but would have to frame it in a different context.  I don't accept the foundational premise of a knowable destiny, so to answer the question would be hypocritical of me in that respect.

Qizmo · Post by **Qizmo** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:16 pm

Our destiny is not fixed.We just have to take each day as it comes and make the choices in between

Clover · Post by **Clover** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:29 pm

IMO we create destiny through ongoing belief.

peredhil31 · Post by **peredhil31** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:18 pm

I think it is amusing that the stereotype is that the older one gets, the more set in their thinking they are.

But looking at the listed ages of posters, and the contents of their posts in these threads, I notice that it is the younger who are more likely to make declarative statements about subjects ("this IS the truth") and the older who are more likely to state opinions ("my opinion is -" or "I have found this to be the truth for me").

I learned a long long time ago, that sometimes two people can be saying different words and both have a portion of the truth.
"We just crossed the Mississippi river."
"You're wrong. We crossed it 1/2 hour ago."
Ten minutes driving - cross it again.
Notice how one speaker does a declarative statement but in a non-challenging way.  The second speaker feels that if they are right, then others must be wrong.

Something to ponder.

A corollary lesson on which to meditate is "If you don't agree, you must not understand", which is implied from the same right/others wrong thinking.

Clover · Post by **Clover** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:53 am

^^^Life experience has opened my mind.

srimathi29 · Post by **srimathi29** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:21 pm

No one can change our destiny it is already, programmed when we came into this world.That is my belief!

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