The nature of evil

[Wælwulf]

Actually, I'm quite familiar with the "Stanford Prison Experiment". They're an awesome band!

Seriously though. To say that Ghandi & Mother Teresa did not have power is to completely miss the definition of power (power as we're discussing here is defined by Webster's as possesion of control, authority, or (not &) influence over others). They had quite a bit of power (& humility, by the way, has nothing to do with the people around you giving you power. One can still be humble, & powerful at once), they just didn't abuse it. They had the power to change the world around them, & you can't tell me that Ghandi wasn't the leader & inspiration for many people. I think that you do these people a great disservice by playing down their roles in society. There are many people in positions of power in the business world. Now, many of the big dogs are awful people, evil, that's not for me to decide, but I know some people in the business world with quite a bit of power over quite a number of people, none of which I would consider "evil".

Ethics have everything to do with a discussion on "good" & 'evil". Now, if one is a dualist, & believes in absolutes, there's nothing that I can say or do to sway you. However, I'm usually swayed by logic (sorry, scientific study is my lot in life) in the world that I see around me, & I've never seen an absolute, has anyone else?

If we are to discuss the Stanford Prison Experiment, we need to take into account the American worldview. Especially the Anglo-American worldview (but that's another discussion entirely) (those of you that aren't American should still know what I'm talking about, because you know you all make fun of us (monocultural, monolingual, aggressive, militaristic, etcetera anyone?), I would). Taking that into account, it's easy to see why the experiment turned out the way that it did. We also should take into account the prison system in America today. I (unfortunately) know a few people in prison, & have never had any of them tell me about any abuse from the guards. Yes, they are at odds with each other, but nowhere near the same as the experiment. I am of the opinion that power being suddenly thrust upon one has a far more detrimental effect than gradually coming to power.

I think that one of the flaws with this discussion (which I love by the way) is that everyone defines evil differently. People can talk about a "universal" evil until they're blue in the face, but as I said before, I've never seen anything "universal" or "absolute" in my life, & have never heard of anyone else that observed this phenomenon either.

Ultimately, just because something is wrong, doesn't make it evil, especially to everyone. If we could all agree on something, the whole world would get along; that has never, & will never happen.

(there will always be at least two camps in this idea, those that think it exists, & those that don't, & neither side will sway the other)

[Mlady Raka]

Waewulf,

Again....these people allowed Godly powers to work through them, and that is by their own confessions...it's not Their power.

Power is not found in a person...only in a seat.  It is a position that holds the power and the person in that seat uses or abuses it.  That's why Kings can be dethroned.  If Hitler was just a man without the position he was in, he would have probably been locked up for his ideas.  But his position in society gave him his "power".

We have different views on what Power is, and I don't necessarily agree with a dictionary explanation of it.  Power goes way beyond any human explanation, and the best all of us can do is speculate.

Power in my opinion AND experience, does not belong in the hands of humans...  Just looking at the world around us today convinces me of it.  

But we are going slightly off topic here...  The question was...

If man is given ABSOLUTE power, will he lean towards evil?

love and rainbows

Raka

[Wælwulf]

If man is given ABSOLUTE power, will he lean towards evil?

"absolute power"

How do you define absolute? I think what you mean to say is "a tremendous amount of power". Or am I mistaken?

Do you think Nelson Mandela is evil? I think the existence of him should answer the question.

If, on the other hand, you're talking about an "evil dictator" then I'd say they were corrupt long before they came to power.

[calibran]

I found you post interesting and at first I found it too much to assimilate at first, but after pushing further I found it insightful.

PS This is in response to your first post as I did not realize that there were so many posts after.

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear Professor,

I would love to meet this mythical being aka "normal rational" human being!

This implies that someone is always rational and normal. Ask anyone who knows even one person intimately and please do not take that lightly, for even spouses (spice?) do not know everything about their partners for life. They just think they do!

It is almost as if we just sample slices of everyone else and when that happens, it is very easy to form wrong opinions and that is how we arrive at the normal rational human being!

And since there is no consistently, predominantly normal and rational being, we all arrive here with seeds of destruction in our sacs!

We also bring with us seeds of construction, each of us. It helps for most individuals to find a patch of soil (patch of soul?) that can be tended with care and love and the right seed when planted can produce a tree with sweet fruit as opposed to the poison fruit.

Part of it is luck which some philosophies tie with other lifetimes and the rest is personal choice.

[quote="Prof. Akers"]I used to be a foster parent dealing seriously disturbed and abused kids and I only ever had 1 child who, I would say, was evil.
For the main part we worked on the priciple that 'There are no bad kids, only sad kids', and this seemed to sum up their problems. They were the result of what adults did to them - absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Then I was listening to the radio today and there was a piece on it by one the Profs. who was instrumental in running the infamous Stamford Experiment.
He was drawing parallels with Abu Gaib and all the other unwatched prisons and the same aphorism springs to mind.
One of his points, going to Hitler and the Nazis, was that normal,rational humans never think of themselves as evil, their logic says they are doing good.
Before I rabbit on I'd like to throw the topic open;
'Given total power, are we naturally evilly disposed?'
I look forward to some ideas.
Very interesting idea.[/quote]

[Mlady Raka]

If man is given ABSOLUTE power, will he lean towards evil?

"absolute power"

How do you define absolute? I think what you mean to say is "a tremendous amount of power". Or am I mistaken?

Do you think Nelson Mandela is evil? I think the existence of him should answer the question.

If, on the other hand, you're talking about an "evil dictator" then I'd say they were corrupt long before they came to power.

Dear Waewulf,

If you read my response to Prof Akers in my first reply, the first few sentences, I answered that question...  Man is weak, and through his fear which comes with weakness...he invited evil into his existence.... that includes Nelson Mandela.  (He did marry Winnie, and she was a huge influence in his life....)  Of course there are some who would say she wasn't evil she was a "freedom fighter"...  Well, Stompie Sepei the little african boy she had killed was no threat to her freedom.  He was one of 18 cases of murder to which she was brought to trial for in 1997.

http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History ... /liang.htm

and this was the woman he took his advice from....  Evil is seldom openly experienced.  Mostly it goes under the veil of a "cause"...justified and denied by most people, because they just cannot believe that it could actually be for real..  That would be too much to handle.

Look at the legacy he left behind.  South Africa today is in more trouble than it ever was under the apartheid regime...(another evil hierarchy put in place because man was weak and  feared being a minority).

This is my last post on this subject, as it seems we are just going round in circles.  I have made my point...and I don't believe there will ever be consensus over this topic.

We can speculate all we want, but I have suffered first hand at the hands of the weakness of humanity and was exposed to evil most of my life.  

I politely agree to disagree with you....

love and rainbows

Raka