Dear Dinoynus
I like your views which are exactly matching my view points. But I dont wish to share why I liked them .
Thanks.
capital punishment
Moderators: eye_of_tiger, shalimar123
Kasab has already been sentenced to death. Let us see what happens.
confusedmind is not presenting a legal argument, sentimentality is never taken into account.
My son's friend was shot dead by the terrorists. He was Faroukh Irani, a Kung Fu teacher, who saved fifteen people by quickly rushing them out of the area before succumbing to bullets.
Can you understand that, confusedmind?
confusedmind is not presenting a legal argument, sentimentality is never taken into account.
My son's friend was shot dead by the terrorists. He was Faroukh Irani, a Kung Fu teacher, who saved fifteen people by quickly rushing them out of the area before succumbing to bullets.
Can you understand that, confusedmind?
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ConfusedMind
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Dionysus,
if you feel that every human is a part of you, take Kasab into account. Gangrene? the entire body is affected dear, at least a major part. killing kasab would not do. you are making a Christ out of Kasab, I see. you kill him and the entire humanity is salvaged. would it happen? no.
See, I don't sympathise with Kasab. I do not ask to forgive him, because I also feel that he has committed the most henious crime. but killing is no solution and neither a justice.
public torture till death? do you think that? what is the difference between you and kasab? he did it. he may not have thought it. true that you did not do it. see, what you have in your thoughts?
you may say, this the way you are. may be you are admired by your associates. may be you are really admirable. but law or justice has got to do nothing with the way you are. and that is why you are not at the judge's chair. you need to be objective and unbiased, with the third person's view.
if you feel that every human is a part of you, take Kasab into account. Gangrene? the entire body is affected dear, at least a major part. killing kasab would not do. you are making a Christ out of Kasab, I see. you kill him and the entire humanity is salvaged. would it happen? no.
See, I don't sympathise with Kasab. I do not ask to forgive him, because I also feel that he has committed the most henious crime. but killing is no solution and neither a justice.
public torture till death? do you think that? what is the difference between you and kasab? he did it. he may not have thought it. true that you did not do it. see, what you have in your thoughts?
you may say, this the way you are. may be you are admired by your associates. may be you are really admirable. but law or justice has got to do nothing with the way you are. and that is why you are not at the judge's chair. you need to be objective and unbiased, with the third person's view.
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ConfusedMind
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- Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 11:55 am
Lady Moira,
a vast bigger educatuon? ? ? what do you learn from kasab being killed? a teenager or just a tween is misled by a gang (with a world-wide-network!!), made to understand that he can earn his family a better livelihood and can sacrifice his life for a higher cause. he is trained and kept under influence (as all terrorists or millitants are). and then he comes to a place for spraying bullets, and does it. you manage to catch him. you hang him. you learn that if one kills lives he/she should be killed. is this what you learnt?
well, a good lesson. why don't you apply it? go hang yourself first. and then you have the right to say that a murderer should be sentenced to death. if you can seek frogiveness, so can kasab. if kasab is hanged, it is your moral duty to hang yourself. your sin? is it necessary to explain? dead are the lives that you claimed.
but you are still alive. should you? i don't say this. this is what your theory says.
a vast bigger educatuon? ? ? what do you learn from kasab being killed? a teenager or just a tween is misled by a gang (with a world-wide-network!!), made to understand that he can earn his family a better livelihood and can sacrifice his life for a higher cause. he is trained and kept under influence (as all terrorists or millitants are). and then he comes to a place for spraying bullets, and does it. you manage to catch him. you hang him. you learn that if one kills lives he/she should be killed. is this what you learnt?
well, a good lesson. why don't you apply it? go hang yourself first. and then you have the right to say that a murderer should be sentenced to death. if you can seek frogiveness, so can kasab. if kasab is hanged, it is your moral duty to hang yourself. your sin? is it necessary to explain? dead are the lives that you claimed.
but you are still alive. should you? i don't say this. this is what your theory says.
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ConfusedMind
- Posts: 650
- Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 11:55 am
prasanna,
I am not a devotee to Lord Krishna. i regard him to be a human being of an ancient age, with such intelligence, intellectual level and extraordinary capabilities that awed people. he has been fictionalized in the folk-literature. but I respect the views people have. My parents are Krishna devotees. We have a temple of Radha-Krishna at our place. I am a non-believer. But I read the Gita almost every often. I like the arguments and the philosophies. all of them are so Human.
Who says, all that Krishna did in Mahabharata is right? I'd talk about the Krishna factor in a different thread. Raping a relative - lying almost all the time - playing tricks - sinning - and making innocent people sin. so, he is another very normal human being. don't follow him. rather your thoughts, feelings, rationale and understandings are better to follow.
And, if I am to accept your View, (Krishna's view over Arjuna's killing his relatives and Teacher) did Kasab kill 70 lives? no. they were already accounted for by krishna. Kasab was just the medium. would you agree?
I am not a devotee to Lord Krishna. i regard him to be a human being of an ancient age, with such intelligence, intellectual level and extraordinary capabilities that awed people. he has been fictionalized in the folk-literature. but I respect the views people have. My parents are Krishna devotees. We have a temple of Radha-Krishna at our place. I am a non-believer. But I read the Gita almost every often. I like the arguments and the philosophies. all of them are so Human.
Who says, all that Krishna did in Mahabharata is right? I'd talk about the Krishna factor in a different thread. Raping a relative - lying almost all the time - playing tricks - sinning - and making innocent people sin. so, he is another very normal human being. don't follow him. rather your thoughts, feelings, rationale and understandings are better to follow.
And, if I am to accept your View, (Krishna's view over Arjuna's killing his relatives and Teacher) did Kasab kill 70 lives? no. they were already accounted for by krishna. Kasab was just the medium. would you agree?
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ConfusedMind
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- Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 11:55 am
ushaiza,
I do understand what you say. None of my family has been a victim. but I've seen my friend die - bit by bit - beat by beat, just in three hours - a life turning into a 'body'. I've experienced the sense of loss. I know it. I've heard her sobs expressing her will to live. I've seen how one dears life when he/she knows that he/she is going to die. Kasab is experiencing this, days in and days out. you people were talking of the Christian concept of repentence. doesn't Kasab repent? he does. if you refuse to believe it, you show your bluntness to accept that every human being (devine or devil) wants to live.
I cannot prove this with a particular 'Article' from a particular 'Section' from the Pinal Code. therefore, I may sound sentimental. but, try and prove me wrong in what I said. Killing Kasab would not bring Faroukh Irani back. hanging Kasab would not stop terrorism. Kasab suffering the Capital punishment will teach nothing.
sentimental? law? i find you live in kolkata. you'll understand the indian law and politics better. politicians/ministers do not have to do much to get the law reformed and get a quota system upgraded in favor of their future in politics. had they been literate and educated enough, they would have done something, rather than doing all bullsheet.
I do understand what you say. None of my family has been a victim. but I've seen my friend die - bit by bit - beat by beat, just in three hours - a life turning into a 'body'. I've experienced the sense of loss. I know it. I've heard her sobs expressing her will to live. I've seen how one dears life when he/she knows that he/she is going to die. Kasab is experiencing this, days in and days out. you people were talking of the Christian concept of repentence. doesn't Kasab repent? he does. if you refuse to believe it, you show your bluntness to accept that every human being (devine or devil) wants to live.
I cannot prove this with a particular 'Article' from a particular 'Section' from the Pinal Code. therefore, I may sound sentimental. but, try and prove me wrong in what I said. Killing Kasab would not bring Faroukh Irani back. hanging Kasab would not stop terrorism. Kasab suffering the Capital punishment will teach nothing.
sentimental? law? i find you live in kolkata. you'll understand the indian law and politics better. politicians/ministers do not have to do much to get the law reformed and get a quota system upgraded in favor of their future in politics. had they been literate and educated enough, they would have done something, rather than doing all bullsheet.
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Lady Moira
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- Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:27 pm
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where did you get that I was talking about education? ConfusedMind wrote:Lady Moira,
a vast bigger educatuon? ? ? what do you learn from kasab being killed? a teenager or just a tween is misled by a gang (with a world-wide-network!!), made to understand that he can earn his family a better livelihood and can sacrifice his life for a higher cause. he is trained and kept under influence (as all terrorists or millitants are). and then he comes to a place for spraying bullets, and does it. you manage to catch him. you hang him. you learn that if one kills lives he/she should be killed. is this what you learnt?
well, a good lesson. why don't you apply it? go hang yourself first. and then you have the right to say that a murderer should be sentenced to death. if you can seek frogiveness, so can kasab. if kasab is hanged, it is your moral duty to hang yourself. your sin? is it necessary to explain? dead are the lives that you claimed.
but you are still alive. should you? i don't say this. this is what your theory says.
I am saying that this issue expands exponentially to other areas than the mere act and relationship victim-murderer. BTW, I do agree with the death penalty because there are many "mind-weak people" that will fall under their spell and mirage and copy their actions and their deeds.
Lady moira
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Lady Moira
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Do you know for a fact that Kasab is repented, repenting and feels sorry? WOW you are either a bigger psychic, Kasab himself or have some sort of indepth information that the rest of the world has.ConfusedMind wrote:ushaiza,
I do understand what you say. None of my family has been a victim. but I've seen my friend die - bit by bit - beat by beat, just in three hours - a life turning into a 'body'. I've experienced the sense of loss. I know it. I've heard her sobs expressing her will to live. I've seen how one dears life when he/she knows that he/she is going to die. Kasab is experiencing this, days in and days out. you people were talking of the Christian concept of repentence. doesn't Kasab repent? he does. if you refuse to believe it, you show your bluntness to accept that every human being (devine or devil) wants to live.
I cannot prove this with a particular 'Article' from a particular 'Section' from the Pinal Code. therefore, I may sound sentimental. but, try and prove me wrong in what I said. Killing Kasab would not bring Faroukh Irani back. hanging Kasab would not stop terrorism. Kasab suffering the Capital punishment will teach nothing.
sentimental? law? i find you live in kolkata. you'll understand the indian law and politics better. politicians/ministers do not have to do much to get the law reformed and get a quota system upgraded in favor of their future in politics. had they been literate and educated enough, they would have done something, rather than doing all bullsheet.
And don't go over the "body language" thing, that is easy to mimic and to alter.
lady Moira
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Lady Moira
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No, he is not making a Christ out of him. the whole concept and the consequences of that stament are things that I am not going to dwell in. What he is saying is that saving one life at the expense of contaminating the rest of lives around that one is not worth it.ConfusedMind wrote:Dionysus,
if you feel that every human is a part of you, take Kasab into account. Gangrene? the entire body is affected dear, at least a major part. killing kasab would not do. you are making a Christ out of Kasab, I see. you kill him and the entire humanity is salvaged. would it happen? no.
See, I don't sympathise with Kasab. I do not ask to forgive him, because I also feel that he has committed the most henious crime. but killing is no solution and neither a justice.
public torture till death? do you think that? what is the difference between you and kasab? he did it. he may not have thought it. true that you did not do it. see, what you have in your thoughts?
you may say, this the way you are. may be you are admired by your associates. may be you are really admirable. but law or justice has got to do nothing with the way you are. and that is why you are not at the judge's chair. you need to be objective and unbiased, with the third person's view.
and I agree.
lady Moira
ConfusedMind wrote:prasanna,
Kasab was just the medium. would you agree?
Yes I do agree with U .
Sorry, I dont wish to comment over ur arguments about my beloved Lord Krishna. I feel I am not a person capable of judging Almighty .Thanks for your time sharing your views with me . I dont wish the topic to deviate from the subject head. This is not spiritual forum to discuss about GOD or Faith.
Thanks Ushaiza Ji for participating in this discussion.
Thanks to all other participants who read my earlier posts. Sorry for wasting all your time , making u read my earlier views over this topic.
Regards,
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ConfusedMind
- Posts: 650
- Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 11:55 am
Prasanna,
I agree with you. this subject deals totally with humanity. gods, religion and Faith should not come in here. But I discussed them so much because I found people justifying a law-backed murder in the name of religion and God. so came Christianity and thus came your beloved Lord Krishna. BTW, I love Him most, of all the Divine characters in all religions. What a brain!!
I agree with you. this subject deals totally with humanity. gods, religion and Faith should not come in here. But I discussed them so much because I found people justifying a law-backed murder in the name of religion and God. so came Christianity and thus came your beloved Lord Krishna. BTW, I love Him most, of all the Divine characters in all religions. What a brain!!
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ConfusedMind
- Posts: 650
- Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 11:55 am
Lady Moira,
since there live "mind-weak people" in this world, and since they can be influenced by Kasab's act, Kasab should be hanged!!!!
there should be no sweets since diabetic people exist in the world.
I tell you, your story of being a hunter inspires me to stone the street dogs I've seen, fire the birds I see flying and the humanity-less people I find crowding this world. I am one of the 'mind-weak people' you referred to. should you be hanged? or, should I be taken to the doctor?
since there live "mind-weak people" in this world, and since they can be influenced by Kasab's act, Kasab should be hanged!!!!
there should be no sweets since diabetic people exist in the world.
I tell you, your story of being a hunter inspires me to stone the street dogs I've seen, fire the birds I see flying and the humanity-less people I find crowding this world. I am one of the 'mind-weak people' you referred to. should you be hanged? or, should I be taken to the doctor?
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Rhutobello
- Posts: 10724
- Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:39 pm
Maybe one shall see behind the reason most people disagree with Death penalty.
Have you ever seen an INNOCENT person been found Guilty in a Crime he/she has not done?....I have seen a lot of those cases.....where one after many years have to agree that one did a mistake...that the investigation wasn't good enough....that the belief in guilt was greater then the need to investigate all sides of a case...If the person is DEAD...then there is not much we can do but to kill the whole investigation team...I assume their deed are equal the deed of a murderer?.....or what is the difference?
An Eye for an Eye....is that a good rule of living?....No its not....its have never prevented anyone from doing a crime, and never will....just look to Middle East, and a Country that live by that rule.
Small groups can then do something bad, and a whole population have to suffer from it....is that a way to build trust, and harmony?
Have you ever seen a person who are unstable..and who then can do bad things...do you think they need death penalty... or do you think they need treatment ?
Have you seen in the news lately that a woman and a youth shall be stoned to death...because of some minor incident....I think the lady was unfaithful...but where is the man? she can't be unfaithful alone...and I have never read about a man stoned to dead because of unfaithfulness.
Why bring the last thing up regarding death penalty.....If you start to blame (in this case Iran), then the boomerang hit you back....what are you talking about...you have death penalty yourself...and the case is dead...
Hate and the need for a family to see the perpetrator dead, will not make the misdeed undone, it will not make the deceased come back to life...it will only "lessen" ones own feelings.
I can agree that many times death penalty is a way to easy outcome for an notorious criminal, he get a shot...and are finish with it....the family will suffer maybe a whole lifetime.
When we have Death penalty as our major punishment...then of course we cry for it......but will not the criminal suffer more by staying behind bars for the rest of his/her life....if that is our major punishment...will it then not be equal accepted.....if someone had hurt my wife or my children...I would hope that they would burn in Hell...I would hope they would Suffer for the Rest of Their life....but that is my need to see justice..my need to make them suffer...but it can never be enough from any sentence done by a society...because my pain is so much greater then what is possible to justify..so if we take that into account, then any sentence that is hard enough, according to society, we might not agree with it...but accept it....even if it not lessen our sorrow for our loss.
So death Penalty have many sides.....it can be a big injustice.....it can be used from other, to justify their own bad habits....and suffering for 20-30 years behind bars, is more a penalty then an easy way out of life.
But that said..I am in no way downgrading the PAIN given to any family, where a crime that we punish with death penalty is done, I just ask...is it the right thing to do after-all.....are we always sure we own the whole truth?
Have you ever seen an INNOCENT person been found Guilty in a Crime he/she has not done?....I have seen a lot of those cases.....where one after many years have to agree that one did a mistake...that the investigation wasn't good enough....that the belief in guilt was greater then the need to investigate all sides of a case...If the person is DEAD...then there is not much we can do but to kill the whole investigation team...I assume their deed are equal the deed of a murderer?.....or what is the difference?
An Eye for an Eye....is that a good rule of living?....No its not....its have never prevented anyone from doing a crime, and never will....just look to Middle East, and a Country that live by that rule.
Small groups can then do something bad, and a whole population have to suffer from it....is that a way to build trust, and harmony?
Have you ever seen a person who are unstable..and who then can do bad things...do you think they need death penalty... or do you think they need treatment ?
Have you seen in the news lately that a woman and a youth shall be stoned to death...because of some minor incident....I think the lady was unfaithful...but where is the man? she can't be unfaithful alone...and I have never read about a man stoned to dead because of unfaithfulness.
Why bring the last thing up regarding death penalty.....If you start to blame (in this case Iran), then the boomerang hit you back....what are you talking about...you have death penalty yourself...and the case is dead...
Hate and the need for a family to see the perpetrator dead, will not make the misdeed undone, it will not make the deceased come back to life...it will only "lessen" ones own feelings.
I can agree that many times death penalty is a way to easy outcome for an notorious criminal, he get a shot...and are finish with it....the family will suffer maybe a whole lifetime.
When we have Death penalty as our major punishment...then of course we cry for it......but will not the criminal suffer more by staying behind bars for the rest of his/her life....if that is our major punishment...will it then not be equal accepted.....if someone had hurt my wife or my children...I would hope that they would burn in Hell...I would hope they would Suffer for the Rest of Their life....but that is my need to see justice..my need to make them suffer...but it can never be enough from any sentence done by a society...because my pain is so much greater then what is possible to justify..so if we take that into account, then any sentence that is hard enough, according to society, we might not agree with it...but accept it....even if it not lessen our sorrow for our loss.
So death Penalty have many sides.....it can be a big injustice.....it can be used from other, to justify their own bad habits....and suffering for 20-30 years behind bars, is more a penalty then an easy way out of life.
But that said..I am in no way downgrading the PAIN given to any family, where a crime that we punish with death penalty is done, I just ask...is it the right thing to do after-all.....are we always sure we own the whole truth?
If we wish to discuss any topic, in this case capital punishment, it becomes a spiritual topic when we learn to live as spiritual beings. We can not separate what we are as physical/material beings from spiritual beings even when we try. No topic is without spirituality.prasanna wrote:ConfusedMind wrote:prasanna,
Kasab was just the medium. would you agree?
Yes I do agree with U .
Sorry, I dont wish to comment over ur arguments about my beloved Lord Krishna. I feel I am not a person capable of judging Almighty .Thanks for your time sharing your views with me . I dont wish the topic to deviate from the subject head. This is not spiritual forum to discuss about GOD or Faith.
Thanks Ushaiza Ji for participating in this discussion.
Thanks to all other participants who read my earlier posts. Sorry for wasting all your time , making u read my earlier views over this topic.
Regards,
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin: We are not a human being having a spiritual experience. We are a spiritual being having a human experience.
God bless, J
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ConfusedMind
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