CAN WE CHANGE OUR DESTINY

[Pravin Kumar]

CAN WE CHANGE OUR DESTINY


Dear Friends,



Can we change our Destiny or is Destiny fixed and we have to follow the path fixed for us?



Would be glad receive your views on the above.

Pravin Kumar


I had posted the above question in a Spiritual Forum and these are the interesting knowledgeable replies.

FREEDOM OF CHOICE OR FREE-WILL:

If every body has free will, then it is impossible to make successful predictions about the future.

Successful predictions cancels the concept of free-will!

PREDESTINY MEANS:

YOU MAKE THOUSANDS OF CHOICES EVERY DAY.

YOU ARE CHOICELESS IN MAKING THOSE CHOICES. (THOUGH UNKNOWN TO YOU!)

CAUSE AND EFFECT:

Whenever we see any event and ask any person with his third eye open, who can see past, present and future, he will be able to tell you the cause of it, which could be in this birth or any of the past births. And with that you will be satisfied that the LAW OF KARMA IS TRUTH.



PREDESTINY:

But when the same seer tells you about events of places, societies, mankind which is going to happen after hundreds, thousands and even yugas, you will have to agree to the ultimate truth of life as a pre-shot film and that the script is written LOGICALLY WITH CAUSE AND EFFECT INCORPORATED IN IT.

So the LAW OF KARMA IS RELATIVE TRUTH.

And so the PREDESTINY IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH.



A man with ego will immensely like the life with law of karma as truth. Cause and effect is the life line of ego!

A man who has perfectly understood predestiny as the absolute truth without an iota of doubt will find his EGO VANISHING IN THIN AIR. Ego will not like it and fight tooth and nail but if you love TRUTH, ego will have to say good-bye to you forever.

My gurudev Mahavatar Babaji (Chandannagar, Kolkata, India) used to say as follows:

1) NOT A DROPLET LESS, NOT A DROPLET MORE;

NOT A SECOND EARLIER, NOR A SECOND LATER,

EVERYTHING IN LIFE IS PRE-ARRANGED.

2) KARTA (DOER), KRIYA ( ACT OF DOING) AND KARMA (ACTION) ARE ALL HIS!

WHERE IS EVEN YOUR EXISTENCE? (You do not have any power of your own!)


Pravinji,

What I usually find is that all great people in general speak about the art of living with a particular philosophy according to the level of understanding of the audience. It is called relative truth and very fruitful for the audience. It works like medicine by a doctor for a particular patient with particular symptoms.

But when you wish to scientifically search for absolute truth there should be no contradictions and should be fool proof. My comments are based on experiencial facts and could be proven by studying the history of mankind of successful predictions.

Also in general, absolute truth is exactly opposite to relative truth. And relative truth has great value as it helps curing mental diseases of the audience.

Example: If predestiny is taken as ABSOLUTE TRUTH, immediately morality looses all value. Responsibility of the person or society becomes nil. No one is greater or smaller. All are like robots or just a character in a video film which is being replayed. There can be no purpose in life and therefore no path. The way life is understood today will be cancelled.

So in general absolute truth is not even hinted at.

So whenever I read any statement of a great person, I first see whom it is addressed to; what is the level of understanding of the audience! And take that as relative truth. What is taught to worldly people is exactly opposite to what is being taught to sanyasis. Sanyasis are taught progressively finer and finer and then the absolute truth.

I hope I am clear.


Osho is asked about predestination and answers yes and no: Parts of his comments are:

“With freedom, effort is always possible. A machine cannot make errors. To err, one has to be conscious. So your acts have a chain relationship with your previous acts. They are determined. Your childhood determines your youth; your youth determines your old age. Your birth determines your death; everything is determined. Buddha used to say, ”Provide the cause, and the effect will be there.” This is the world of cause and effect in which everything is determined.

If you act with total consciousness, an altogether different situation exists. Then everything is moment to moment. Consciousness is a flow; it is not static. It is life itself, so it changes. It is alive. It goes on expanding; it goes on becoming new, fresh, young. Then, your acts will be spontaneous.



I am reminded of a Zen story.... A Zen master asked his disciple a particular question. The question was answered exactly as it should be answered. The next day the master asked exactly the same question. The disciple said, ”But I answered this question yesterday.”

The master said, ”Now I am asking you again.” The disciple repeated the same answer. The master said, ”You do not know!”
The disciple said, ”But yesterday I answered in the same way and you nodded your head. So I
interpreted that the answer was right. Why have you changed your mind now?”

The master said, ”Anything that can be repeated is not coming from you. The answer has come from your memory, not from your consciousness. If you had really known, the answer would be different because so much has changed. I am not the same man who asked you this question yesterday. The whole situation is different. You also are different, but the answer is the same. I had to ask the question again just to see if you would repeat the answer. Nothing can be repeated.”

The more alive you are, the less repetitive. Only a dead man can be consistent. Living is
inconsistency; life is freedom. Freedom cannot be consistent. Consistent with what? You can
be consistent only with the past. An enlightened person is consistent only in his consciousness; he is never consistent with his past. He is totally in the act. Nothing is left behind; nothing is left out. The next moment the act is finished and his consciousness is fresh again. Consciousness will be there whenever any situation arises, but each act will be made in complete freedom, as if it is the first time that this man has been in this particular situation.

That is why I answered both yes and no to your question. It depends on you, whether you are consciousness, or whether you are an accumulation, a bodily existence. Religion gives freedom because religion gives consciousness. The more science knows about matter, the more the world will be enslaved. The whole phenomenon of matter is of cause and effect: if you know that given this, that happens – then everything can be determined.”-OSHO



Source : from Osho Book "The Psychology of the Esoteric"


Our habits formulate into our character.

It is our character that determines our destiny and how we will be remembered.

As a final note, please consider the difference between accomplishment and character.

With accomplishment, we do not always have control. Our character is always a choice. No one. despite their power and wealth, can take our character away from us.

Please consider the following quotes,

" Watch you thoughts, they become your words. Watch your words, they become your actions. Watch your actions, they become your habits. Watch your habits, they become your character. Watch your character, it becomes your destiny"!

I know of one renowned astrologer in Kolkata who could predict very accurately from your horoscope. Many famous policians call on him to learn about their political future.

Once after very successfully reading one horoscope, he remarked, "The life of every being is totally governed by nine planets and 12 boxes of the horoscope and still a man very foolishly entertains the folly of being the architect of his own destinty."

If you have ever come across a successful reading of your own horoscope, you must have been amazed and confirm the truth of the above statement.

I know of a friend of mine, who went to a Bhrigu-Shastri in Kolkata. Shashtriji took out a book and read his entire life of 45 years up to that date DITTO!

Till that time, he was thinking of himself as the architect of his destiny and after this humbling experience KNOWS THAT EVERY EVENT IS PREDESTINED!

Similarly, my and your life keep on flowing according to a written page of Bhrigu-shashtra without we being aware of that!

We must check the history of mankind of successful predictions and firmly conclude that you are just a robot in the hands of predestiny! And then only the burden of doership, worries and fear of tomorrow CAN VANISH FOREVER AND YOU CAN ENJOY THE FILM OF LIFE JOYOUSLY WHATEVER MAY BE THE SCRIPT OF YOUR DRAMA OF LIFE!


If you are the architect of your destiny, you would definitely be able to avoid diseases, old age and death, which nobody ever wants. So we must check the history of mankind to find such a man and follow him!


Hope you will enjoy the above replies

[Prof. Akers]

Couldn't be bothered reading it all but it's a biased question Pravin, just using the word destiny implies that events are pre-determined.
Sorry mate you'll have to re-phrase the question before it makes sense.

[white light]

Yes, it's called Akashik records.

Every human has a record of his/her life.  It's called an Akashik record.

These records are detailed records of a person's birth, life and death.  Where you'll be born, to whom you'll  be born, where you'll go to school, what you're interests will be, how much of an achiever or failure you'll be, what tribulations you'll suffer, what happiness you'll enjoy, everything you do is recorded before you're born.

When a psychic reads your palm/cards (etc.), that psychic is actually reading your Akashik record.  How does the psychic know you'll get married at 25, divorced at 35, have two daughters and one son, get into a car accident and lose your leg at the age of 43 . . . ?  S/he knows because it's all recorded before it happens.  Many psychics don't even know the term Akashic record.  They get information from their spirit guides.  Well, their spirit guides get information on you from looking at your Akashic record.

[Prof. Akers]

Yes, it's called Akashik records.

Every human has a record of his/her life.  It's called an Akashik record.

These records are detailed records of a person's birth, life and death.  Where you'll be born, to whom you'll  be born, where you'll go to school, what you're interests will be, how much of an achiever or failure you'll be, what tribulations you'll suffer, what happiness you'll enjoy, everything you do is recorded before you're born.

When a psychic reads your palm/cards (etc.), that psychic is actually reading your Akashik record.  How does the psychic know you'll get married at 25, divorced at 35, have two daughters and one son, get into a car accident and lose your leg at the age of 43 . . . ?  S/he knows because it's all recorded before it happens.  Many psychics don't even know the term Akashic record.  They get information from their spirit guides.  Well, their spirit guides get information on you from looking at your Akashic record.

So if that's the case then we're just robots going through pointless tasks.

[Prof. Akers]

Having read up a bit now it seems to me you need to quote some sources for such a sweeping statement.

[spiritalk]

False premise, with all authority to back it up!  The natural law makes more sense.  And the law of cause and effect is the strongest of all:  Any cause you put into operation (that means each and every experience of your life) will draw its resultant effect (the consequences of your own actions).  

NOTHING IS WRITTEN OR THERE WOULD BE NO NEED TO LIVE IT.

You might consider Pravin who jumped on this premise.  Their messages have been about the negativity and pity me variety of life experiences.  Instead of taking it as predetermined, why not take it as a wake up call to positive thought over negative thought.

[Pravin Kumar]

Dear Spiritalk,

I had posted a question in a spiritual forum "Can We Change Destiny" The forum is spiritualforum.com. Rest are replies from others. My belief is we can change destiny and I try to change others through Palm Reading and subsequent advise/healing. Some of the learned members have given their replies and one of the post is taken from Osho, where he to says that if we cannot change then what is the use of doing anything.

Pravin Kumar

P.S. I specifically posted this post because Astrologers in most forum do not believe you can change yourself.

[Prof. Akers]

Pravin one of the problems is that neither side can prove anything.
I may believe I'm making a free choice but in fact I'm not but because it is 'foretold'. The best illustration I can come up with is this: if I want to buy a house do I have total freedom of choice?
No, I don't, there are constraints, I might want to live in a large house in Kensington in London but unless I have the £16 million plus I'm not going to live there.
When we did both retire we sat down to work out where in the world we wanted to live, note the bit 'where in the world', we had total freedom of choice but.........America was out because, although one of the kids lives there, we didn't want to have to pay a fortune for medical insurance. I wanted to live in Spain but my wife isn't good with languages, we both thought we'd like to live in Malta but at that time you needed to keep a bank balance of £100,000! Doubtful.
So back to living in GB but again finances rule out vast areas, cultural differences rule out others, so, freedom of choice, not in a million years.
What I'm saying is that all decisions are surrounded by their own constraints and although I have the freedom the run away and become a beachcomber in Bali I would never make that choice.
But there again it could be argued that all this was foretold and who knows, perhaps it was but I doubt it.

[spiritalk]

And fear is the biggest deterent to free will choice of all!  We could live 'anywhere in the world' if we chose.  But fears (the unknown, people, places, things) keep us right where we 'belong' in our homes and lives.  

I have known people who retired from their work and moved into small towns to enjoy the rest of their lives.  They found that no one spoke to them or interacted.  Their lives were already set and the newcomer did not fit in.  A hockey player once said that they were the new ones in town and they had been there 10 years.  At least in the city they would have been able to find so many activities to keep them busy that they wouldn't have noticed.  

And that is where they had built their lives.  And there again is the cause and effect.  We are building our lives by our relationships.  When we run away from all the people, places, things we know we have to start at the beginning again.  

Our own building, by our own free will choices, is our destiny.

[Cascade of Light]

Yes, it's called Akashik records.

Every human has a record of his/her life.  It's called an Akashik record.

These records are detailed records of a person's birth, life and death.  Where you'll be born, to whom you'll  be born, where you'll go to school, what you're interests will be, how much of an achiever or failure you'll be, what tribulations you'll suffer, what happiness you'll enjoy, everything you do is recorded before you're born.

When a psychic reads your palm/cards (etc.), that psychic is actually reading your Akashik record.  How does the psychic know you'll get married at 25, divorced at 35, have two daughters and one son, get into a car accident and lose your leg at the age of 43 . . . ?  S/he knows because it's all recorded before it happens.  Many psychics don't even know the term Akashic record.  They get information from their spirit guides.  Well, their spirit guides get information on you from looking at your Akashic record.

I don't agree at all. Most psychics guess or use cold reading or ask for information and recycle it and of course many lie.

Most psychics can't access the Great Hall of Records. I am not sure where you got that information from? Are you a fellow Guardian? Have you visited? If you have you will know that the future is not yet fixed it is grey and constantly changing. As things get nearer the picture becomes more in focus, more tangible and then will fix in shape like a video recording or photograph.

[Cascade of Light]

So if that's the case then we're just robots going through pointless tasks.[/quote]

No of course not, We all have free will and can change things if we try. I do not beleive in pre-destination, thats something that was invented to scare us all into accepting our fate. As if anyone would choose to have a deadly disease or to experience pain and suffering, no way.

[enumero123]

(We all have free will and can change things if we try. I do not beleive in pre-destination, thats something that was invented to scare us all into accepting our fate. As if anyone would choose to have a deadly disease or to experience pain and suffering, no way.)  


could this pain and suffering be because  of our free will   that we made the wrong choices   the question of predestination is debatable and some do believe in it    many faiths, paths and religions fully adhere to it  ...

[enumero123]

Acts 4:28 - "whatever Thy hand and purpose predestined to occur"
             Rom. 8:29 -"He predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son"
             Rom. 8:30 - "whom He predestined, He also called..."
             I Cor. 2:7 - "a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God predestined before the ages"
             Eph. 1:5 -"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ
             Eph. 1:11 - "having been predestined according to His purpose"


The core Islamic belief is that man has been given free will in this life, and the retribution in the Hereafter is based on how he utilizes his freedom of choice in the worldly trial. Reconciling it with the notion of predestination is one of the most complex issues in Islamic theology. However, scholars have responded to this problem by stating that God is independent of space-time, and hence al-Qadr actually refers not to predestination (which has the notion of time) but to His knowledge of all events and actions, irrespective of time. Thus, who will go to Hell and who will enter Heaven is determined (not predetermined) for God, but for man, he will always bear the fruit of his actions. The issue can be solved only by considering God and man independently, and not on the same scale. In other words, Omniscience of God is not the opposite of Free Will.



the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination is a doctrine of Calvinism which deals with the question of the control God exercises over the world. In the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith, God "freely and unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass."[1] The second use of the word "predestination" applies this to the salvation, and refers to the belief that God appointed the eternal destiny of some to salvation by grace, while leaving the remainder to receive eternal damnation for all their sins, even their original sin. The former is called "unconditional election", and the latter "reprobation". In Calvinism, men must be predestined and effectually called (regenerated/born again) unto faith by God before they will even wish to believe or wish to be justified.

[enumero123]

by examining your cycles of life and what they mean for you ,you can move into the drivers seat and take control ..you can learn to work and flow with your cycles rather than fight them when you are aware of your seasons, aware that winter follows autumn and spring winter you can be prepared to deal with the changes as you choose


YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR CYCLES WHICH ARE DETERMINED AT BIRTH JUST AS YOU CANT CHANGE THE SEASONS ,,but you can learn to recognize your cycles and learn how to use them to your fullest advantage

resonates a little toward predestination

[enumero123]

we begin the greatest journey of our life at the moment of birth.we embark upon our journey with detailed maps that depict the major highways detours and rest stops along the way ,yet most of us never stop to consult these maps .we drive straight on unmindful of the directory signs along the way ,until we hit a pothole or drive off a bridge and suddenly find ourselves lost and our vehicles badly in need of repair



got your map yet