Karmas - pretty complex how they work?

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Jayashree Ravi
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Karmas - pretty complex how they work?

Post by Jayashree Ravi » Wed May 06, 2015 8:27 pm

I read the news yesterday about a very poor Cambodian woman who sold her daughter for $500 in order to pay off her loans... It set me to wondering... although I would definitely call the woman's deeds punishable (karmically), nevertheless, what would majority of today's men and women do, when in her spot -- one of utter gloom, poverty and misery. Not that there aren't good souls who wouldn't do what she did, but to me it appears, what she did is not out of the norm for the suffering she is going through....

So to me it appears to me that when deeds are done by those, and can be justfiable atleast from 1 angle, then they incur far less sin than otherwise... say a wealthy man disliking his progeny and selling them off for some reason or other...

Someone I know of also thinks that karmas depend on the trending values appropriate for a 'yuga'. In Hinduism, yugas are the cycles that repeat in a set of 4, one after the other... the first yuga or sub-phase within a cycle is 'Satya yuga' or the period of truthfulness and everything good... then this kinda deteriorates with ongoing yugas untill we reach the last yuga - namely 'kali yuga' the age of the vices.

Someone that I told about tells that a person would accrue more sin by doing deeds that are against the norm of the trending 'yuga'. Therefore, if it is the last yuga, which is also known as 'kali yuga' which is the age of the vices, someone would actually accrue bad karma when he/she uses excessive force or insults against those who act as per the dictum says for this yuga. So, to escape the wrath of kali - the god prevailing over this yuga, no excessive and unjustifiable force against those drug dealers, petty thieves and so forth...

Similarly, even prostitution and drug dealing would earn some 'merit' under this yuga - of 'Kali' - because they help the god, Kali, to operate freely! They are said to undergo 1 lifetime of pleasures and only then, punished for their acts of sin!

So, seems like, Karmas are pretty complex to decipher after all!  :smt017
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed May 06, 2015 11:10 pm

The doctrine of Karma can get rather complex indeed if we dig any deeper than the surface. For instance, victims of a large scale accident, or of a natural disaster.

Mind-boggling to say the very least :-(

Even without basing on other ?assumptions and including these. In fact many would say that even Karma is an assumption. Rogues flourish while saints suffer is not unusual an occurrence...?
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Post by swetha » Thu May 07, 2015 5:11 am

Thanks Jayashree for starting  good topics :))

I do strongly believe Karma works.. I don't know how though... But everything is so difficult to explain.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu May 07, 2015 1:23 pm

Indeed KARMA is like a busy downtown...?
On a map it looks so neatly laid out and even simple.
But when actually there & experiencing it in the flesh,
it appears so different, so complex... :-(
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Is there such a thing as species karma?

Post by eye_of_tiger » Thu May 07, 2015 11:40 pm

For instance, victims of a large scale accident, or of a natural disaster.


I often wonder whether there is such a thing as species karma, as human beings have to a large extent been a disaster for this planet.

If karma is the universal law of balancing cause and effect on a personal level, why can't it also operate on a species wide level, often involving large numbers of us at the same time?

It could be the planet attempting to free itself of a major parasite or irritant (us), as part of its own self healing processes.

Of course it would be mind boggling to then have to allow for the personal karma of each individual caught in the disaster, when species karma is put into effect.

Sorry if this theory sounds more than a little insensitive to the huge amount of human suffering and loss of life which can often be the result of a major disaster.

But we are told that our sensitivity to the suffering of humanity during such major catastrophes is often misplaced, supposedly because our emotions get in the way of us being able to be able to see things objectively.

Karma and the fantasy of universal fairness, are often at odds with each other.

EoT

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Re: Is there such a thing as species karma?

Post by Rohiniranjan » Fri May 08, 2015 1:11 am

eye_of_tiger wrote:
For instance, victims of a large scale accident, or of a natural disaster.


I often wonder whether there is such a thing as species karma, as human beings have to a large extent been a disaster for this planet.

If karma is the universal law of balancing cause and effect on a personal level, why can't it also operate on a species wide level, often involving large numbers of us at the same time?

It could be the planet attempting to free itself of a major parasite or irritant (us), as part of its own self healing processes.

Of course it would be mind boggling to then have to allow for the personal karma of each individual caught in the disaster, when species karma is put into effect.

Sorry if this theory sounds more than a little insensitive to the huge amount of human suffering and loss of life which can often be the result of a major disaster.

But we are told that our sensitivity to the suffering of humanity during such major catastrophes is often misplaced, supposedly because our emotions get in the way of us being able to be able to see things objectively.

Karma and the fantasy of universal fairness, are often at odds with each other.

EoT
I am not a Karma-scholar, meaning I would not be able to quote volume, page and sloka (verse) :-) but I have been led to believe that while we hae our individual karma, we also participate in 'group' karmas, some of the grouping being: family, community, culture, nation we are born in and our adopted/adopting country, global.

Perhaps the 12 astrological clans/tribes which are not based on biological-genetic linkages might have something to do with karma as well which our birth-plan includes.

Some may choose to believe it, others not so much! Even those who have no qualms about accepting individual karma which is simpler to understand.

Yes, it can be quite a can of worms or perhaps a bowlful of spaghetti if that sounds more palatable :-)
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Post by swetha » Fri May 08, 2015 2:33 am

do children for their parents Karma?

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Karma

Post by srimathi29 » Fri May 08, 2015 7:31 am

Hello Jayasree ! Topic about Karma is interesting  but if one  believes  in Re birth then past karma adds.If no rebirth there is nothing about karma. Each individual will born with their past life karma may be it is GOOD or BAD karma  one have to face in present life ( Heard from big Saints)

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Re: Karma

Post by eye_of_tiger » Sat May 09, 2015 12:47 am

srimathi29 wrote:Hello Jayasree ! Topic about Karma is interesting  but if one  believes  in Re birth then past karma adds.If no rebirth there is nothing about karma. Each individual will born with their past life karma may be it is GOOD or BAD karma  one have to face in present life ( Heard from big Saints)
Srimathi

You are I feel sir, only partly correct

Without believing that we are continually reborn into one physical body after another (reincarnation) we must believe that we only have this one lifetime, and that after our physical bodies die that we either cease to exist, or that we remain forever on some other spiritual plane in a permanently disembodied state.

Although talking about karma working between each of our successive lives would not make any sense if you only had one lifetime on Earth, how much more important then would it be for each of us to live a good and moral spiritual life, according to the laws of karma which still operate within that single lifetime?

It follows that if we really do only have one lifetime, that the laws of karma in it would need to work faster and be more severe, when compared to if they had instead worked over many lifetimes.

So whether or not rebirth and reincarnation happens, the laws of karma cannot be escaped from. Either they work within a single life time, or alternately over many consecutive past and future lives.

The reality is that karmic laws operate within each of our individual lifetimes, as well as between our successive lifetimes.

EoT  :smt115

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Post by eye_of_tiger » Sat May 09, 2015 1:25 am

swetha wrote:do children for their parents Karma?
Swetha,

This dangerous, wrong idea of children carrying into their own lives the karma of their parents is a similar belief to the one which is included in the Christian Bible which talks about a jealous and angry God "visiting the iniquity (sins) of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation" [Exodus 34:7]

This badly mistaken idea is quickly overturned by the following quote, also from the Bible.

"The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself". [Ezekiel 18:19-20]

Whether it be a parent or his or her child, each of us carries his own karma, and does NOT carry the karmic burden of anyone else, either within a single lifetime or between successive lifetimes (if you believe in reincarnation).

I like the following quote which not only answers your question, but also suggests that a person who is ill or disabled is not that way because either they or their parent has sinned. It deals with the cruel belief that I hope will eventually disappear forever, that all disease and disability is God's punishment for our sins.
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.
[John 9:1-3]

It is my opinion that any of these beliefs that we hold and defend so vigorously, are very oversimplified versions of the whole truth. If we knew the whole truth for even one thousandth of a second, it is said that our physical body will instantly be exploded or blasted into its component, separate atoms.

EoT  :smt103

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat May 09, 2015 4:13 pm

swetha wrote:do children for their parents Karma?
Swetha,

If you meant:
do children [suffer] for their parents Karma?

My guess (belief?) would be, "Perhaps no! If indeed this creation is the outcome of Higher Omniscient Intelligence, then a family cohort (like other groupings) must have been a product of an Intelligent dove-tailing, perhaps of individual karmas"

Many individuals think of karma as a policeman or judge or a headmaster and we poor souls being here just to work out our karma tickets/sentences/punishments.

My personal belief+observations+perceptions based on my life and of others that I have tried to serve, help and associate with tells me that the lifetime is a blend of rigidity intermixed with flexibility. Furthermore, our lifetime is meant to be about growth and learning.

Without those two elements and constantly reminding ourselves to be aware of those, one risks becoming devoid of hope and when one deeply allows one to be entrenched in such a mode, learning suffers. In dire moments it all seems pointless. These moments are when we are helped best through faith, or through surrounding ourselves with music and pleasant, inspiring thoughts. These are not negative or wasted moments but opportunities when paradigms can shift...
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Post by 3rivers » Thu May 28, 2015 8:36 am

Is it able to clean karma?
some masters such as a shaman said he could do that....

Karma also seems to work in a weird way...
I see someone who is a very bad man did a lot of bad things but he lives a happy rich life till the end.
somone who is very kind but lives in poor and misery.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu May 28, 2015 10:53 am

3rivers wrote:Is it able to clean karma?
some masters such as a shaman said he could do that....

Karma also seems to work in a weird way...
I see someone who is a very bad man did a lot of bad things but he lives a happy rich life till the end.
somone who is very kind but lives in poor and misery.

The answer to first question is: yes! Certain eastern traditions support that contention, as well.

To the second: Why do you call that weird...? :-)
Wouldn't that seem to be the case?
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Post by Calla Abegail » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:18 pm

I believe in karma. As the golden rule states you should not do to other what you don't want others do unto you.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:37 pm

Calla Abegail wrote:I believe in karma. As the golden rule states you should not do to other what you don't want others do unto you.

Yes they say,"Your act of free-will today shall become your destiny tomorrow, so use the gift of fre-will wisely!"
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