KARMA: whose action... Who pays and where...?

[Rohiniranjan]

Despite varying beliefs, faith-systems etc:
Karma the conceptualization of righteous actions (and lack thereof ...!) creates a jolly ambience of coffee-house prattle in etheric congregations, although pretty much most of it is based on the moral juris-prudence model of you do the crime, you do the time! Or you reap what you sow agricultural model or the violent an eye for the eye conceptualization.

Then we meandre into the messy minefield of reincarnation and rebirth to improve our lot through an essentially timeless multidimensional (for the most part assumed possibilities) raising the debates and doubts.

Now, many good folks bring in scriptures and the conversation becomes guarded and controlled and we drift off and away...!

The 'recycle-camp' (reincarnation yay-sayers) tends to believe (with patchy anecdotal accounts etc) insists that past sins build up a karmic ledger of sorts that we discharge (or should!) while we are born and live through lifetimes and even as we do so, more debts accumulate and so the reincarnation counter keeps turning and turning and the game never ends!

Sure, there are placebos available including gemstones and magic amulets and spiritual-divinatory magazines (ink and electrons) are choc full of those as well as TV promotionals promising instant salvation by calling a toll-free number displayed on the screen.

We also believe that the body dies and the spirit-essence escapes into a timeless dimension for days to centuries (clocked by Earth-time) before showing up as an infant with a clean hard drive (and different suite of free bloat-ware!) and the merry-go-round begins again.

Some insist that karma can only be discharged while in the earthly reality but that sounds rather inefficient! Maybe the essence that really is the entity responsible for karma, like Satan, never rests! Perhaps it continues to amortize this Karma debt (or should!).

Are some of these what we think of as spirit-guides and other helper entities? So, the wheel of amortization never sleeps...?

Which essentially means that if *A* dies with (for instance) 1 million Karma debt, when it is reborn as *B* it comes back with (again, for example) 900000 karma debt or maybe even less, depending on good helpful deeds done in the afterlife!

Now, that should come as a cheerful thought for many!  :smt004

[Jayashree Ravi]

In my opinion RR ji, even if A earns good merits in the so-called "after-life", when he is born as B, his old bad karmas are potent enough to block him from reaping the benefits of his good karmas, and they will remain blocked until he has paid for his sins! This is how I look at it, however, I must say, this is just my personal opinion.

Also, I have quite an interesting theory on karmas. I think that karmas themselves are related to the chakras of the body. When all chakras of the body are all opened and fully enabled (yes, including the sahasrara - the CROWN), the man is said to have attained 'nirvana'. So deducing from this, doesn't it then mean that for those in whom self-realization hasn't dawned and are made to work towards it by taking numerous births, the chakras then must be 'closed' and 'disabled'?

Thus I tend to think different chakras and their state influence the behavior and the outcome/resultant karmas of a person. Perhaps we can speed up the reincarnation process by doing chakra meditation then, I do not know!

[Rohiniranjan]

In my opinion RR ji, even if A earns good merits in the so-called "after-life", when he is born as B, his old bad karmas are potent enough to block him from reaping the benefits of his good karmas, and they will remain blocked until he has paid for his sins! This is how I look at it, however, I must say, this is just my personal opinion.

...

Jayashree,

Thanks for sharing your views.
So am I to understand from your opening statement that Karma-ledger can only operate when the consciousness (spirit-essence-soul:fragment as some label it) is encapsulated in earthly form (that dies and has been estimated to cost 5 dollars worth of chemicals (C,H,O,N etc) [corrected for inflation!]?

That sounds wasteful, does it not? Even though we are making assumptions and Thank God not parroting some old scriptures, yet, let us look at an earthly scenario. A woman steals in the office and then goes home! Would she not be accountable for the crime and have to pay for her mis-deeds when she arrives at home? Surely, the police will not arrest her only between 8AM to 5PM, or whatever her work-hours happen to be!

We shall address the "chakra-view" later on; let us sort the above first.

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

[Calla Abegail]

I believe in karma too...What goes around comes around.

[Rohiniranjan]

I believe in karma too...What goes around comes around.

Yes, *faith* in some form of karma framework, and that this is a moral Creation seems to run a common thread amongst divination-spiritual-religious community. Although there are strong divergences of thinking about its operation-implementation-execution between individuals who love to dabble in this conceptualization (Karma etc.)

[Rohiniranjan]

In my opinion RR ji, even if A earns good merits in the so-called "after-life", when he is born as B, his old bad karmas are potent enough to block him from reaping the benefits of his good karmas, and they will remain blocked until he has paid for his sins! This is how I look at it, however, I must say, this is just my personal opinion.

Also, I have quite an interesting theory on karmas. I think that karmas themselves are related to the chakras of the body. When all chakras of the body are all opened and fully enabled (yes, including the sahasrara - the CROWN), the man is said to have attained 'nirvana'. So deducing from this, doesn't it then mean that for those in whom self-realization hasn't dawned and are made to work towards it by taking numerous births, the chakras then must be 'closed' and 'disabled'?

Thus I tend to think different chakras and their state influence the behavior and the outcome/resultant karmas of a person. Perhaps we can speed up the reincarnation process by doing chakra meditation then, I do not know!

Jayashree,

Interesting 'chakra-switching' hypothesis you have visualized
Mystic literature and interpretations of those, some rigid others more liberal (with the aid of intuition and her sister: imagination) have delved into the whirpools of etheric energies and the concept of Chakras and karma have always been attractive to us all mystico-philes of all times and locations!

Some astrological minds have also tried to seek concordances-connections between astrological considerations and chakras and the ever-favourite topic of karmas. Some leaning more on planets, other on signs and some on asterisms-nakshatras. To the general observer there might appear to be many loose-ends, even ambiguous, while those who are of more dedication to their school (or Master's conceptualizations) seem to have made their exclusive (and exclusionary?) commitment it might appear.

If I may, I would like to replace the term 'influence' with *represent or indicate* in your musings. Correlation perhaps not necessarily being one and the same as causality or causal linkage...?

Even a brief but intensive brush with astrology very quickly impresses upon us the fact that through its connectedness (some call it quantum matrix) many paths, many explanatons, many factors participate or represent the pointers. Chakras therefore might be participants in this seemingly simple and unitary conceptualization of karma. However, we are also told that there might be interactive karmic patterns such as family karma, communal karma, national karma and perhaps forum-karma (no kidding!) that brought us all strangers here to interact? Anything is possible in the mystic mists...?

The reason for my suggesting the astrological perspective is that such karmic-chakrik vantage (and there might be many more such perspctives) might be more generally understandable to all of us astrophiles since there seem to be certain consonance to our belief system that includes the concept of remedies which reminds one of antidotes, agonists, antagonists, enhancers, modulators and suppressants...! The therapeutic model is similar too!!

Your comments when you have perused the above and when time permits.

RR

[Jayashree Ravi]

RR ji,

Yes the term represent or indicate, replacing the 'influence' in my posting makes much more sense! Thanks.

You are right, RR ji, many times I thought of the term 'collective karma' and it seems that all of us undergo such a karma being born, brought-up and living in certain/certain countries, amidst people whose mental make-up is attuned to think in many ways similar, etc. Life as it seems is an ongoing-experience/process comprising of various fronts through which we accumulate experience.

Actually it is a very fascinating subject you have brought up, if we think deeply so many parameters are involved in it.

[Rohiniranjan]

RR ji,

Yes the term represent or indicate, replacing the 'influence' in my posting makes much more sense! Thanks.

You are right, RR ji, many times I thought of the term 'collective karma' and it seems that all of us undergo such a karma being born, brought-up and living in certain/certain countries, amidst people whose mental make-up is attuned to think in many ways similar, etc. Life as it seems is an ongoing-experience/process comprising of various fronts through which we accumulate experience.

Actually it is a very fascinating subject you have brought up, if we think deeply so many parameters are involved in it.

Yes Karma-reincarnation and similar assumptions-beliefs are sometimes presented as over-simplified and perhaps simplistically but might be more multi-dimensional in actual. Even the so called astrological correlates that we all get drawn to and enamoured by. The concepts align with our innate sense of moral justice, fairness and the concept of life and lifetimes having an educational-heuristical purpose -- even as assumptions better such a perspective than a sense of confused randomness underlying this creation we find ourselves in?