Fate VS Free-will?

Post your thoughts and views here.

Moderators: eye_of_tiger, shalimar123

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Fate VS Free-will?

Post by Rohiniranjan » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:27 pm

Sooner or later, divinators (particularly astrologers) run into this quandary about fate versus free will. Many opinions exist, including:

1. Everything is predestined;
2. Not everything is predestined, hence the relevance of Remedials and personal efforts;
3. Different nativities depending on their development (of soul) have differing degrees of expression of fate and free will, subject to dashas and transits etc.


Your thoughts please…
__________________

User avatar
Talia
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:36 pm
Location: Wonderland

Post by Talia » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:38 pm

1) No
2) Maybe
3) Perhaps


I hate the idea of fate and predestination, I also hate the idea that we all chose this life, even if it is to 'evolve' and learn.

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:59 pm

Talia wrote:1) No
2) Maybe
3) Perhaps


I hate the idea of fate and predestination, I also hate the idea that we all chose this life, even if it is to 'evolve' and learn.
Maybe it is all pareidolia. Seeing (or imposing) patterns on random pixels, like those that used to show on TV screens when the station was "off air"...!

User avatar
eye_of_tiger
Site Admin
Posts: 8490
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:47 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Contact:

Post by eye_of_tiger » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:30 am

This topic will always be hotly debated, as it lies at the very core of religious and spiritual teachings, and the nature of our space-time reality.

The two extremes are either that everything is predestined (free will is therefore a cruel illusion), or that nothing is predetermined .

It is my belief that the true situation lies somewhere in between these two polar opposites (option 3 above).

Some things are definitely set in stone like our birth and our death (although the exact timing and methods used to get us here and see us off after our time is up, may be open to considerable modification, if or when it is felt to be necessary).

But most future personal events in our lives are I can imagine being constantly reshaped and re-scripted, mainly by whatever we do in the present moment to help ourselves bring about the desired outcome.

Any theory which we can come up with to attempt to explain this will always be I think a gross oversimplification of a deeper and much more complex mechanism, which our human minds cannot even begin to wrap themselves around

When you see what a difficult life some people are supposed to have chosen you cannot help wondering what they were thinking, and why they would voluntarily choose to put themselves through such a miserable existence.

I cannot help but strongly agree with Talia's comments above, in both directions (no free will or nothing but free will).

Of course when spiritual teachers say that we choose this life before we were born, the word we is NOT referring to our Earthly personalities (Talia, Rohiniranjan or Brian), but rather to our Higher Selves which incarnate through that personality.

A Higher Self which we are told can view these lessons and hardships from a much higher and wider perspective, where the difficulties and heartaches of this mortal existence are all seen as a worthwhile means towards a glorious and much more enlightened end.

I am I must confess still to be convinced about this, but the opportunity is always there for each of us to learn something new about ourselves every day, so I will at least continue to keep my mind open to the possibility that our Higher Self does know exactly what he or she is doing when choosing its next acting role on the worldly stage.

Brian  :smt115

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:52 pm

Like any amorphous topic, this one is likely to attract beliefs, assumptions (personal and borrowed from background, religion, significant others -- nurturing and non-nurturing) and so remains unresolved like some chronic itch on the back-side of minds! :-\  Many even shake their heads, roll their eyes and get back to their worldly business pursuits. No one is really right or wrong, I hope.

We can either watch the mesmerizing random pattern on the TV or play with the pareidolia-projections (assumptions and beliefs) or hope that when the time and conditions are right, the (or some) station will come alive "on air".

The destiny-camp will wait in TAO, the free-willers will pedal and back-pedal and I will pray and hope that this is not a stationary exercise bike. Although that is good for the body too!

User avatar
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader
Posts: 7188
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Kolkata, New York, Toronto
Contact:

Re: Fate VS Free-will?

Post by RishiRahul » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:49 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:Sooner or later, divinators (particularly astrologers) run into this quandary about fate versus free will. Many opinions exist, including:

1. Everything is predestined;
2. Not everything is predestined, hence the relevance of Remedials and personal efforts;
3. Different nativities depending on their development (of soul) have differing degrees of expression of fate and free will, subject to dashas and transits etc.


Your thoughts please…
__________________
1. Nearly
2. Remedials probably help like mantras to soothe the mind by reducing negativity , helping to sustain oneself  more positively to go though life with more smoothness & harmony.
3. Not understood.

According to my belief, through limited experience of life & application of divinatory crafts=
The native or the Soul has to experience the present life as per his/her birth signatures (which includes the  birth time as a factor).
The native will face certain occurrences in life, which the native will respond to as per his basic nature; all calculated in a complex mathematical matrix.

The lesson being= Acceptance & understanding of those experiences.

My two or few cents....

Rishi

User avatar
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader
Posts: 7188
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Kolkata, New York, Toronto
Contact:

Post by RishiRahul » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:56 pm

Talia wrote:1) No
2) Maybe
3) Perhaps


I hate the idea of fate and predestination, I also hate the idea that we all chose this life, even if it is to 'evolve' and learn.

Talia,

Hating or Loving an idea is a strong term.
Sometimes we may hate the truth or love the untruth or vice versa.

Rishi
RishiRahul.com
Astro-Palmist & Numerologist
Accurate timings & solutions to specific questions

User avatar
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader
Posts: 7188
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Kolkata, New York, Toronto
Contact:

Post by RishiRahul » Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:57 pm

eye_of_tiger wrote:This topic will always be hotly debated, as it lies at the very core of religious and spiritual teachings, and the nature of our space-time reality.

The two extremes are either that everything is predestined (free will is therefore a cruel illusion), or that nothing is predetermined .

It is my belief that the true situation lies somewhere in between these two polar opposites (option 3 above).

Some things are definitely set in stone like our birth and our death (although the exact timing and methods used to get us here and see us off after our time is up, may be open to considerable modification, if or when it is felt to be necessary).

But most future personal events in our lives are I can imagine being constantly reshaped and re-scripted, mainly by whatever we do in the present moment to help ourselves bring about the desired outcome.

Any theory which we can come up with to attempt to explain this will always be I think a gross oversimplification of a deeper and much more complex mechanism, which our human minds cannot even begin to wrap themselves around

When you see what a difficult life some people are supposed to have chosen you cannot help wondering what they were thinking, and why they would voluntarily choose to put themselves through such a miserable existence.

I cannot help but strongly agree with Talia's comments above, in both directions (no free will or nothing but free will).

Of course when spiritual teachers say that we choose this life before we were born, the word we is NOT referring to our Earthly personalities (Talia, Rohiniranjan or Brian), but rather to our Higher Selves which incarnate through that personality.

A Higher Self which we are told can view these lessons and hardships from a much higher and wider perspective, where the difficulties and heartaches of this mortal existence are all seen as a worthwhile means towards a glorious and much more enlightened end.

I am I must confess still to be convinced about this, but the opportunity is always there for each of us to learn something new about ourselves every day, so I will at least continue to keep my mind open to the possibility that our Higher Self does know exactly what he or she is doing when choosing its next acting role on the worldly stage.

Brian  :smt115



Like.. Like....

Rishi
RishiRahul.com
Astro-Palmist & Numerologist
Accurate timings & solutions to specific questions

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:38 pm

The ripples in water are more descriptive and revealing of the limitations of the stone than of the water... :smt004

sriharisreeram
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:13 pm
Location: India

Post by sriharisreeram » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:25 pm

In Astrology,
Fate is signified by the Planet SATURN, and
Free will is signified by JUPITER.

During Transit of Saturn, Native will experience the result of Fate already he accumulated from his previous births or present birth or both.

While during Transit of Jupiter, native will experience the result of the actions done by him will fully in the present life.
*Srihari*

sriharisreeram
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:13 pm
Location: India

Post by sriharisreeram » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:27 pm

I agree with Rishi...
*Srihari*

User avatar
RishiRahul
Astrology Reader
Posts: 7188
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:47 am
Location: Kolkata, New York, Toronto
Contact:

Post by RishiRahul » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:46 pm

sriharisreeram wrote:In Astrology,
Fate is signified by the Planet SATURN, and
Free will is signified by JUPITER.

During Transit of Saturn, Native will experience the result of Fate already he accumulated from his previous births or present birth or both.

While during Transit of Jupiter, native will experience the result of the actions done by him will fully in the present life.

Hello,

If fate & free will was limited to Saturn & Jupiter only, what would the rest of planets and nakshatras etc  signify?


RishiRahul
RishiRahul.com
Astro-Palmist & Numerologist
Accurate timings & solutions to specific questions

sriharisreeram
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:13 pm
Location: India

Post by sriharisreeram » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:49 pm

Hai,
All other Planets are giver of the Karmas depending upon the connection whether with Saturn Or Jupiter.

The planets which are having connection with Saturn will deliver the events as per FATE..


The planets which are having connection with Jupiter will deliver the events as per Free will karma..

Srihari
*Srihari*

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:21 pm

so blessings of both biggies on a sector is ideal to avoid becoming slaves of either influences, viz. F/FW...!
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Rohiniranjan
Posts: 7470
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: N.A.

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:52 am

Michael Newton in his soul books gives an interesting take on the matter of the F/FW quandary if anyone has interest
Rohiniranjan
========
JYO-LOGUE

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests