Fate VS Free-will?
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Fate VS Free-will?
Sooner or later, divinators (particularly astrologers) run into this quandary about fate versus free will. Many opinions exist, including:
1. Everything is predestined;
2. Not everything is predestined, hence the relevance of Remedials and personal efforts;
3. Different nativities depending on their development (of soul) have differing degrees of expression of fate and free will, subject to dashas and transits etc.
…
Your thoughts please…
__________________
1. Everything is predestined;
2. Not everything is predestined, hence the relevance of Remedials and personal efforts;
3. Different nativities depending on their development (of soul) have differing degrees of expression of fate and free will, subject to dashas and transits etc.
…
Your thoughts please…
__________________
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Maybe it is all pareidolia. Seeing (or imposing) patterns on random pixels, like those that used to show on TV screens when the station was "off air"...!Talia wrote:1) No
2) Maybe
3) Perhaps
I hate the idea of fate and predestination, I also hate the idea that we all chose this life, even if it is to 'evolve' and learn.
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This topic will always be hotly debated, as it lies at the very core of religious and spiritual teachings, and the nature of our space-time reality.
The two extremes are either that everything is predestined (free will is therefore a cruel illusion), or that nothing is predetermined .
It is my belief that the true situation lies somewhere in between these two polar opposites (option 3 above).
Some things are definitely set in stone like our birth and our death (although the exact timing and methods used to get us here and see us off after our time is up, may be open to considerable modification, if or when it is felt to be necessary).
But most future personal events in our lives are I can imagine being constantly reshaped and re-scripted, mainly by whatever we do in the present moment to help ourselves bring about the desired outcome.
Any theory which we can come up with to attempt to explain this will always be I think a gross oversimplification of a deeper and much more complex mechanism, which our human minds cannot even begin to wrap themselves around
When you see what a difficult life some people are supposed to have chosen you cannot help wondering what they were thinking, and why they would voluntarily choose to put themselves through such a miserable existence.
I cannot help but strongly agree with Talia's comments above, in both directions (no free will or nothing but free will).
Of course when spiritual teachers say that we choose this life before we were born, the word we is NOT referring to our Earthly personalities (Talia, Rohiniranjan or Brian), but rather to our Higher Selves which incarnate through that personality.
A Higher Self which we are told can view these lessons and hardships from a much higher and wider perspective, where the difficulties and heartaches of this mortal existence are all seen as a worthwhile means towards a glorious and much more enlightened end.
I am I must confess still to be convinced about this, but the opportunity is always there for each of us to learn something new about ourselves every day, so I will at least continue to keep my mind open to the possibility that our Higher Self does know exactly what he or she is doing when choosing its next acting role on the worldly stage.
Brian :smt115
The two extremes are either that everything is predestined (free will is therefore a cruel illusion), or that nothing is predetermined .
It is my belief that the true situation lies somewhere in between these two polar opposites (option 3 above).
Some things are definitely set in stone like our birth and our death (although the exact timing and methods used to get us here and see us off after our time is up, may be open to considerable modification, if or when it is felt to be necessary).
But most future personal events in our lives are I can imagine being constantly reshaped and re-scripted, mainly by whatever we do in the present moment to help ourselves bring about the desired outcome.
Any theory which we can come up with to attempt to explain this will always be I think a gross oversimplification of a deeper and much more complex mechanism, which our human minds cannot even begin to wrap themselves around
When you see what a difficult life some people are supposed to have chosen you cannot help wondering what they were thinking, and why they would voluntarily choose to put themselves through such a miserable existence.
I cannot help but strongly agree with Talia's comments above, in both directions (no free will or nothing but free will).
Of course when spiritual teachers say that we choose this life before we were born, the word we is NOT referring to our Earthly personalities (Talia, Rohiniranjan or Brian), but rather to our Higher Selves which incarnate through that personality.
A Higher Self which we are told can view these lessons and hardships from a much higher and wider perspective, where the difficulties and heartaches of this mortal existence are all seen as a worthwhile means towards a glorious and much more enlightened end.
I am I must confess still to be convinced about this, but the opportunity is always there for each of us to learn something new about ourselves every day, so I will at least continue to keep my mind open to the possibility that our Higher Self does know exactly what he or she is doing when choosing its next acting role on the worldly stage.
Brian :smt115
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Like any amorphous topic, this one is likely to attract beliefs, assumptions (personal and borrowed from background, religion, significant others -- nurturing and non-nurturing) and so remains unresolved like some chronic itch on the back-side of minds! :-\ Many even shake their heads, roll their eyes and get back to their worldly business pursuits. No one is really right or wrong, I hope.
We can either watch the mesmerizing random pattern on the TV or play with the pareidolia-projections (assumptions and beliefs) or hope that when the time and conditions are right, the (or some) station will come alive "on air".
The destiny-camp will wait in TAO, the free-willers will pedal and back-pedal and I will pray and hope that this is not a stationary exercise bike. Although that is good for the body too!
We can either watch the mesmerizing random pattern on the TV or play with the pareidolia-projections (assumptions and beliefs) or hope that when the time and conditions are right, the (or some) station will come alive "on air".
The destiny-camp will wait in TAO, the free-willers will pedal and back-pedal and I will pray and hope that this is not a stationary exercise bike. Although that is good for the body too!
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Re: Fate VS Free-will?
1. NearlyRohiniranjan wrote:Sooner or later, divinators (particularly astrologers) run into this quandary about fate versus free will. Many opinions exist, including:
1. Everything is predestined;
2. Not everything is predestined, hence the relevance of Remedials and personal efforts;
3. Different nativities depending on their development (of soul) have differing degrees of expression of fate and free will, subject to dashas and transits etc.
…
Your thoughts please…
__________________
2. Remedials probably help like mantras to soothe the mind by reducing negativity , helping to sustain oneself more positively to go though life with more smoothness & harmony.
3. Not understood.
According to my belief, through limited experience of life & application of divinatory crafts=
The native or the Soul has to experience the present life as per his/her birth signatures (which includes the birth time as a factor).
The native will face certain occurrences in life, which the native will respond to as per his basic nature; all calculated in a complex mathematical matrix.
The lesson being= Acceptance & understanding of those experiences.
My two or few cents....
Rishi
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- RishiRahul
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eye_of_tiger wrote:This topic will always be hotly debated, as it lies at the very core of religious and spiritual teachings, and the nature of our space-time reality.
The two extremes are either that everything is predestined (free will is therefore a cruel illusion), or that nothing is predetermined .
It is my belief that the true situation lies somewhere in between these two polar opposites (option 3 above).
Some things are definitely set in stone like our birth and our death (although the exact timing and methods used to get us here and see us off after our time is up, may be open to considerable modification, if or when it is felt to be necessary).
But most future personal events in our lives are I can imagine being constantly reshaped and re-scripted, mainly by whatever we do in the present moment to help ourselves bring about the desired outcome.
Any theory which we can come up with to attempt to explain this will always be I think a gross oversimplification of a deeper and much more complex mechanism, which our human minds cannot even begin to wrap themselves around
When you see what a difficult life some people are supposed to have chosen you cannot help wondering what they were thinking, and why they would voluntarily choose to put themselves through such a miserable existence.
I cannot help but strongly agree with Talia's comments above, in both directions (no free will or nothing but free will).
Of course when spiritual teachers say that we choose this life before we were born, the word we is NOT referring to our Earthly personalities (Talia, Rohiniranjan or Brian), but rather to our Higher Selves which incarnate through that personality.
A Higher Self which we are told can view these lessons and hardships from a much higher and wider perspective, where the difficulties and heartaches of this mortal existence are all seen as a worthwhile means towards a glorious and much more enlightened end.
I am I must confess still to be convinced about this, but the opportunity is always there for each of us to learn something new about ourselves every day, so I will at least continue to keep my mind open to the possibility that our Higher Self does know exactly what he or she is doing when choosing its next acting role on the worldly stage.
Brian :smt115
Like.. Like....
Rishi
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In Astrology,
Fate is signified by the Planet SATURN, and
Free will is signified by JUPITER.
During Transit of Saturn, Native will experience the result of Fate already he accumulated from his previous births or present birth or both.
While during Transit of Jupiter, native will experience the result of the actions done by him will fully in the present life.
Fate is signified by the Planet SATURN, and
Free will is signified by JUPITER.
During Transit of Saturn, Native will experience the result of Fate already he accumulated from his previous births or present birth or both.
While during Transit of Jupiter, native will experience the result of the actions done by him will fully in the present life.
*Srihari*
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- RishiRahul
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sriharisreeram wrote:In Astrology,
Fate is signified by the Planet SATURN, and
Free will is signified by JUPITER.
During Transit of Saturn, Native will experience the result of Fate already he accumulated from his previous births or present birth or both.
While during Transit of Jupiter, native will experience the result of the actions done by him will fully in the present life.
Hello,
If fate & free will was limited to Saturn & Jupiter only, what would the rest of planets and nakshatras etc signify?
RishiRahul
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Hai,
All other Planets are giver of the Karmas depending upon the connection whether with Saturn Or Jupiter.
The planets which are having connection with Saturn will deliver the events as per FATE..
The planets which are having connection with Jupiter will deliver the events as per Free will karma..
Srihari
All other Planets are giver of the Karmas depending upon the connection whether with Saturn Or Jupiter.
The planets which are having connection with Saturn will deliver the events as per FATE..
The planets which are having connection with Jupiter will deliver the events as per Free will karma..
Srihari
*Srihari*
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