A general question about the dreaming self...!

Learn to analyse and understand the meaning of your dreams.

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A general question about the dreaming self...!

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:30 am

Folks,

While dreaming:

Do you find that your sense of self (I, me, my attitudes, my emotions, my feelings towards others) remains similar compared to waking state?

Or does it differ significantly from your awake *I* (sense of self)?

Things such as colour preferences, food preferences, or things and people etc. that you feel strongly drawn towards or the other extreme (repulsive).


Curious...!

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Post by eye_of_tiger » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:35 pm

In order to satisfactorily answer your questions you would surely need to be lucid enough while still within the dream state, in order to make such a comparison.

Normally we are only consciously aware of a small fraction of what happens or how we behave while we are dreaming.

We usually only know the tip of the iceberg of our sleeping self, so to speak.

But in general the type of person we are and how we treat others in our dreams can be very different from how we interact while wide awake.

Many of our normal inhibitions towards behaving in embarassing and shameful ways do not work when we are in the stage of Rapid Eye Movement sleep, where most if not all dreaming is believed to occur.

This is an excellent and very interesting topic for discussion. The beauty of it is that if you are a person who regularly remembers his or her dreams, you will automatically have something of value to contribute.

A WIN - WIN situation for all who participate?

Many thanks,

EoT  :smt020

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:03 am

eye_of_tiger wrote:In order to satisfactorily answer your questions you would surely need to be lucid enough while still within the dream state, in order to make such a comparison.

Normally we are only consciously aware of a small fraction of what happens or how we behave while we are dreaming.

We usually only know the tip of the iceberg of our sleeping self, so to speak.

But in general the type of person we are and how we treat others in our dreams can be very different from how we interact while wide awake.

Many of our normal inhibitions towards behaving in embarassing and shameful ways do not work when we are in the stage of Rapid Eye Movement sleep, where most if not all dreaming is believed to occur.

This is an excellent and very interesting topic for discussion. The beauty of it is that if you are a person who regularly remembers his or her dreams, you will automatically have something of value to contribute.

A WIN - WIN situation for all who participate?

Many thanks,

EoT  :smt020
Hi EoT,

Thanks for your sharing.
Just to clarify/elaborate, yes most of us behave/express ourselves towards others with a few 'filters', such as societal, etiquette, closeness or lack thereof (for example, towards strangers vs close friends and family, etc) but I was looking for subjective feelings as perceived by self for person A in wakeful state vs the same person A when seen in a dream. Not sure if that clarifies a bit more what I was looking for.  :smt017

Personally, as far as I can tell I do not find my feelings very different toward a person or circumstances between the awake state and dream state.

I do realize that I can say that only for the dreams that I recall consciously upon waking. Which may be a subset of all the dreams I might have been seeing.

But given that limitation, since most others might not be experiencing a total recall either, do folks find a difference between their feelings towards folks or situations between dream and wakeful state?
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Post by Talia » Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:24 pm

Interesting topic, I dream a lot, well I remember  lot, far too much as it makes me wake tired.  I do see myself using strong emotions more and acting more than I do when awake,  I may be timid when awake towards someoenbut when they enter my dreams then my true feelings come out. When I waken I remember and to me this is a warning that the person in question should be dealt with very carefully and that I have to watch situations.

I think that  directed dreaming can help investigate situations and persons and test outcomes.
Food? I rarely ever eat when dreaming? Strange now when I think of it.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:10 pm

Hello Talia,

Thank you very much for your sharing to this thread.

If I understand you correctly, you mentioned that you "express your feelings/emotions" more fully when dreaming, than you would have had the situation been experienced in wakeful state.

But I reiterate (I hope I am not being a pest :-)) -- do your subjective feelings (not expression thereof!) remain the same between the two states: Waking vs dreaming?

Food! Hmmm... now that you mention, I too cannot recall dream situations where I actually ate! There had been a few dreams where I sat down in eating-situations, usually a ceremonial event, but did not actually eat anything. :-(

Even things such as colour preferences, hobbies, etc etc.

So really I am aiming to get a sense of the subjective-sense of the dreaming-self and if folks find that rather similar to their subjective-sense of self when awake. So, again, not how they react or express which presumably could be vastly different from the waking state.

Love and Light!

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Post by eye_of_tiger » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:22 am

I still cannot understand how you can talk about having subjective feelings within a dream, which you could then compare with the subjective feelings which you have while you are wide awake.

Once again unless there is a high degree of lucidity present, for something to be subjective it requires a level of awareness and consciousness that is normally absent within the dream state.

Unless of course this happens to be a psychic or mystical dream.

If it is one of those in contrast to the average nightly melodrama, then all the normal rules for what is possible and when are rewritten, and subjectivity could then in theory be higher than in the normal waking state.

EoT  :smt017

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:47 am

eye_of_tiger wrote:I still cannot understand how you can talk about having subjective feelings within a dream, which you could then compare with the subjective feelings which you have while you are wide awake.

Once again unless there is a high degree of lucidity present, for something to be subjective it requires a level of awareness and consciousness that is normally absent within the dream state.

Unless of course this happens to be a psychic or mystical dream.

If it is one of those in contrast to the average nightly melodrama, then all the normal rules for what is possible and when are rewritten, and subjectivity could then in theory be higher than in the normal waking state.

EoT  :smt017
Hi EoT,

Lucidity would, I think, come in the picture if I were to compare the awake vs dream feelings (etc) while I am actually dreaming! That is not what I had in mind. It is more like doing the comparison etc after I wake up from the dream. So, for instance when I am journaling the dream upon waking up. I have a fairly vivid recall at that time although it fades as the day progresses.

Lucid dreaming would be like bringing the awareness within the dream so that the dreamer realizes that he/she is dreaming. When I am dreaming, I do not feel that I am *dreaming* but actually living the experience. It is during the post-waking recall phase that I recall and realize that it was a dream.

Does that clarify a bit better?  :smt017
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Post by eye_of_tiger » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:56 am

It is more like doing the comparison etc after I wake up from the dream.
You are trying to compare how you felt about another person when you were dreaming, and how you normally feel about them when you are awake.

I think that I understand this.

But in order to do this comparison effectively, you would need to be able to regularly and reliably remember over 90% of how you felt about that person, so that you could quickly write it down in your dream journal before that memory also fades.

Unless you are an advanced lucid dreamer or have reached a level of remembering the finer details of your dreams after you wake up, which greatly exceeds the abilities of the average person, you would not have enough information to be able to base such a comparison upon.
According to estimates by dream researcher J. Allan Hobson, as much as 95 percent of all dreams are quickly forgotten shortly after waking. Why are our dreams so difficult to remember? According to one theory, the changes in the brain that occur during sleep do not support the information processing and storage needed for memory formation to take place. Brain scans of sleeping individuals have shown that the frontal lobes, the area that plays a key role in memory formation, are inactive during REM sleep, the stage in which dreaming occurs.
http://psychology.about.com/od/statesof ... dreams.htm

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Post by Talia » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:32 am

Perhaps we are what you call an advanced lucid dreamer. I know that I have a very active dream 'world', I know when I am dreaming in a dream and when I am not. Of course my helath suffers as I rarely reach the lower levels of regenerative deep sleep.

Rohini, the emotions I feel are hidden when awake, it is the dreaming that uncovers that level of feeling and so I presume it is my sub-conscious or higher self or other channel of information, perhaps spirit showing me these events?

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:31 pm

For 'lucidity', I am responding point by point in green color! :-)
eye_of_tiger wrote:
It is more like doing the comparison etc after I wake up from the dream.
You are trying to compare how you felt about another person when you were dreaming, and how you normally feel about them when you are awake.

Not quite :(  I am really trying to get a sense of how different the dreaming self is from the awake self! It is way more than just how one may feel about a certain person, but also include other elements of what constitutes the *I*. It would include preferences (food, colour, hobbies, goals, weaknesses, fears etc)

I think that I understand this.

But in order to do this comparison effectively, you would need to be able to regularly and reliably remember over 90% of how you felt about that person, so that you could quickly write it down in your dream journal before that memory also fades.
Yes I agree! Hence as I mentioned, I use dream journaling and it gets done within minutes of waking up :-)

Judging by the incredible details (scenes, emotions etc etc) that folks report here, it seems like  lot of folks have an excellent recall -- at least here! Maybe all are journaling.../


Unless you are an advanced lucid dreamer or have reached a level of remembering the finer details of your dreams after you wake up, which greatly exceeds the abilities of the average person, you would not have enough information to be able to base such a comparison upon.
I am not a lucid dreamer since I am not aware in my dreams that I am dreaming! Only upon waking does the realization come that I was dreaming. Also, I do not have the ability to control the dream sequence.  :smt010
According to estimates by dream researcher J. Allan Hobson, as much as 95 percent of all dreams are quickly forgotten shortly after waking. Why are our dreams so difficult to remember? According to one theory, the changes in the brain that occur during sleep do not support the information processing and storage needed for memory formation to take place. Brain scans of sleeping individuals have shown that the frontal lobes, the area that plays a key role in memory formation, are inactive during REM sleep, the stage in which dreaming occurs.
Dreaming involves a lot of brain real estate it seems, brain stem upwards and onwards!
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:47 pm

Talia wrote:Perhaps we are what you call an advanced lucid dreamer. I know that I have a very active dream 'world', I know when I am dreaming in a dream and when I am not. Of course my helath suffers as I rarely reach the lower levels of regenerative deep sleep.

Rohini, the emotions I feel are hidden when awake, it is the dreaming that uncovers that level of feeling and so I presume it is my sub-conscious or higher self or other channel of information, perhaps spirit showing me these events?
Hi Talia,

I do not consider myself a lucid dreamer. I lack the awareness during dreams that I am 'dreaming' and I cannot control or manipulate my dreams once the 'celluloid' begins rolling! ;-)  You on the other hand seem to fit the bill perfectly, as per your description.

I do not dream a lot or perhaps do not remember those since according to scientists with EEG and machines that I should be dreaming 1-several times during the sleep cycles (rem phase). That is why I had to flog myself into journaling dreams as opposed to reaching out for a steaming cup of java! <LOL> Fortunately for me, I do not get too many vivid dreams. What I always lacked during sleep, I made up through massive amounts of day-dreaming though, particularly in my first two decades :smt020

This thread is turning out to be a great exercise in learning and awareness! Far beyond my wildest dreams
:smt032
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Post by Talia » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:18 pm

Have you watched the film 'Inception' with Leonardo Di Caprio? If you haven't you must and soon!

I have noticed that some dreams stick, mnths even years after I can still vividly recall them, sadly some have been prophetic, or perhaps the events that happened I just thought about in my dreams? who knows but I have tested some of them and it leaves me wondering more and more.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:27 pm

Talia wrote:Have you watched the film 'Inception' with Leonardo Di Caprio? If you haven't you must and soon!

I have noticed that some dreams stick, mnths even years after I can still vividly recall them, sadly some have been prophetic, or perhaps the events that happened I just thought about in my dreams? who knows but I have tested some of them and it leaves me wondering more and more.

*stick* as in to your memory (recall) or stick as in come true...?

I don't recall any 'prophetic' dreams of any significance. Or psychic nature. Hence probably got drawn to astrology :-)

Will check out inception one of these days. Thanks!
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Post by Talia » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:50 pm

Both, they are fresh in my mind and have a quality that does not fade, and they happened.

Astrology seems so much to learn but then perhaps you look at tarot the same way?

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:08 pm

They say hat the only way to learn is to teach...
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