Sheep and Goats

For Psychic discussions and general questions.

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al64
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Sheep and Goats

Post by al64 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:53 am

Sheep and goats
I hope that I've put this in the right place.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the so called 'sheep an goats effect'.
This is an academic thing with scientists, as usual stating the obvious, that people with an interest in psychic, ESP and psi etc. tend to do better in their tests. It has also been found, - and this is the part that interests me - that those with a strong aversion to such things tend to get negative results and do worse than the average in the tests. (Ref' on request)

Thinking about this and taking it a stage further, do they also have a detrimental effect on the positive results?

The thing that highlighted this for me was the recent, in the UK, Richard Dawkins BBCTV series 'Enemies of Reason' where, basically, he tried to make people with different views to himself look silly. The most striking part of it all for me was when the dowsers were unable to get results when Dawkins was present and they were looking around in amazement, wondering what had gone wrong. Some of them were quite elderly and had been dowsing all of their lives.
What I tend to think was happening was that his negative attitude was cancelling their positive knowledge of dowsing. Thus proving that Dawkins also is using a psychic ability of his own, albeit in a negative sense. He would of course never admit to such things as his street-cred' would be destroyed.

This, interestingly also presents a paradox, in that this idea can never be tested as the goats would insist that the test would be unfair if they were excluded for the above reasons – spoiling the test. :)  :smt069

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Gem
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Post by Gem » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:24 pm

Hmmm.... I saw that programme, and to be haonest I thought the dowsers were pretty poor. They used weak methods and seemed to be more basing their dowsing on the right feeling or their hunch or spirit rather than the true dowser that uses hazel twigs to divine water.

But under those circumstances it is very hard to be in the right frame of mind, cameras and a skeptic don't make the best of environments in which to dowse, and to be honest &nbsp;when I dowse I am finding underground springs for wells with maybe 100,000 (+ -) gallons not a 2 litre bottle of Evian lol. Hmmm I might go and try it though &nbsp;<gg> &nbsp;Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

al64
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Post by al64 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:07 pm

Hi Gem
I would have thought that you would have hung-up you pendulum and forked stick at your age?
I tend to agree that the program makers only seemed to show the victims n a poor light, but then the nature and purpose of it was for that reason.
Do you agree that extreme scepticism is a psychic form?
Al :smt002

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Post by spiritalk » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:26 pm

We are the most creative of animals. &nbsp;We create with thought power. &nbsp;It does work!

I find these latest spate of TV shows regarding psychic abilities is trying for the entertainment value. &nbsp;And people do like to see a winner and a loser. &nbsp;I did not, of course, see this particular show.

I don't think I do well with the psi test formulated but then I have not been in a controlled, scientific atmosphere to test that theory. &nbsp;The idea is that the results are above what a guess could produce - they do not admit to any other influence. &nbsp;Not everyone is psychic in exactly the same way - we are all unique and individual beings. &nbsp;One test does not fit all.
God bless, J

al64
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Sheep and Goats

Post by al64 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:09 pm

Hi spiritalk
I have been thinking about our minds creative power lately although I can't say that I know much about the subject. Can you recommend any reading?
I tend to think the programs you mentioned are for the benefit of skeptics – with a K. My British spell checker doesn't like this.
There have been many scientific studies that have given very positive results, but these are never mentioned and I ask myself “Do I care anyway”? Things are the way that they are.
Being at a loose-end today, I thought I might stir a little interest with some subject and maybe get to know one or two of you good people.
Al :smt002

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Gem
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Post by Gem » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:15 pm

Al shouldn't that have been forked tongue and broomstick lol?

I use pendulums for detecting psychic and spiorit energy, not dowsing, that to me is hazel :)
extreme scepticism is a psychic form
Yes it has a definative form of energy, a strong force that emits a shaking energy so it will affect results. All that energy and effort being put into non-believing, sad really, far better to be open minded.

and... what a lovely way to spend an afternoon :)

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Post by spiritalk » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:50 pm

As far back as the 50s The Power of Positive Thought by Norman Vincent Peale was published. &nbsp;The latest spate of books is large on the self-help type of positive thought ideas. &nbsp;It has been connected to natural law - the law of attraction as in the secret is one example. &nbsp;

I find the more we use the ideas that we embrace (like positive thought) the more they tend to make sense in the light of all our development as a human being.
God bless, J

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Nyteshadecreed
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Post by Nyteshadecreed » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:33 am

I was reading this and was thinking of a conversation that D and I had this morning... (D being my b/f) He doesn't 'believe' but he doesn't say that it is impossible.... So anyways we were talking about god knows what and started talking about Psychics, and how the energy is used for readings (At least with all that I have known...) And he asked about being able to be miles (or continents) away from the 'source' and still give an accurate reading, saying that energy (as he sees it) would be like a ripple in a pond growing in ever expanding circles from the source.. also growing weaker... over distance, but how he thought it would be better to read from a distance seeing as the reader would be less likely to be affected by the emotional energies of the subject... Every one with me??

Well while reading this post I was thinking that having the skeptic in the room and actively thinking about how it isn't going to work, would be sending these ripples over and over towards the reader... (or dowser) making the dowser work harder to sort through the energies to find the answer that is usually there without interference.... &nbsp;Yet again this is all speculation on our parts... Just thought that I would put it out there....

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Nyte
Nyte

Wondering in the darkness, but never alone...

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Post by spiritalk » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:19 pm

Nyte: &nbsp;There was also a question at a thought exchange forum in which it was asked: &nbsp;Can anyone read over the internet? &nbsp;Many were against the idea that it was even possible. &nbsp;Perhaps we just need a more up to date understanding of psychic energies. &nbsp;I can certainly see the point in your discussion.

Spirit Energies: &nbsp;From a Central Source (God) flows all life energies. &nbsp;It decreases in intensity as it flows to the lowest energy - physical - as gross matter.

A competent psychic attunes to their own guides and higher self energies - not the sitter. &nbsp;Reading the energies around the sitter is less effective. &nbsp;A psychic would merely be confirming the energy of the sitter in that case - not being guidance. &nbsp;It is all in the manner of operation of any given psychic. &nbsp;Energy is just energy. &nbsp;The use of it is the interesting thought.
God bless, J

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Nyteshadecreed
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Post by Nyteshadecreed » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:46 pm

*thinks very hard about the reading over the internet thing* Hmmmm... well then I guess I am just crazy, cause I swear that I can.... *smiles at Spirit* But I can also see how others wouldn't believe it... it was JoteJete, that has encouraged me to be more out going... *misses Jote* (he took vacation with his family) I mentioned him because of his positive influence and his abilities.... he is SO amazing with what he is able to do...
Nyte

Wondering in the darkness, but never alone...

al64
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Post by al64 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 pm

Hi nyte and spiritalk
Most of the stuff I've been reading of late has been about remote viewing and other things added to the books for backup. Remote Viewing was done by scientists Targ and Puthoff and was eventually used by the American military for spying. It was, in fact honed to a fine art and although they found that some people are very good at it they claim that it's usable for all. It seems that distance is no obstacle. In fact someone claimed to have viewed Mars.
One of the points they make is that it does not diminish in strength like a radio wave with distance, space or even it seems time.
They found people who had been doing this kind of thing for all of their lives and the label was attached by the scientists. They don't need a sitter or any help whatsoever.
I would not normally use a scientist for this kind of discussion, but these two are the exception, with no sceptical problems.
The point of all this is that it seems, if this is anything to go by, the psychic is only limited by his own inhibitions and further that the internet is waiting for someone to give it a try.
Al :smt072

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Nyteshadecreed
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Post by Nyteshadecreed » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:58 pm

Al: I can address the time thing... in that energy travels faster than anything else that we can track, and therefore IS faster than the speed of light, which is energy that happens to be illuminative.
Nyte

Wondering in the darkness, but never alone...

al64
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Post by al64 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:07 pm

Hi Nyte
I agree with what you say and there's a lot of stuff at this site ether for anyone interested and I especially like the article by Dawn Stranges:
Seven Types of Etheric Force

1. LIQUID ETHER FORCE. Composed of gravitational strings, karmic force and Love. Properties are somewhat liquid and flowing. Liquid Ether has the ability to directly support Etheric functions of a living body. This is the Ether that is accumulated in one of the devices yet to be investigated below. It is useful in healing physical trauma and neurological and attitude problems, as shown by the author's research.
2. REGENERATIVE ETHER FORCE. Composed of pulsed current strings, and a web of resultant pulsed magnetic fields. It would be helpful for healing all wounds, and for degenerative conditions.
3. TRANSMUTATIONAL ETHER FORCE. The specific contents are not elucidated at this time, but consist of solar energy transmuted by humans. This Ether Force is used exclusively for spiritual purposes.
4. INSPIRATIONAL ETHER FORCE. Contents include compassion, strings of celestial (Astral) energy, and Universal radiance (a balanced blend of Etheric and Astral components of the cosmos). This makes possible communication of the beauty and ingenuity provided by the Universe. The heart and spiritual organs of perception combine forces to communicate cosmic Truth for use by the many. This Ether Force is helpful to raise the consciousness of an individual or group toward a high cause.
5. TRANSCENDENTAL ETHER FORCE. Applied through compliance with Universal Law, magnetic alignment, and the Christ Consciousness. This Ether Force is helpful in transcending time, space, and consciousness boundaries. Useful in any area.
6. MULTIDIMENSIONAL ETHER FORCE Composed of Love, compassion, karmic force, Christ Consciousness, and planetary forces. Helpful in bringing the individual into harmony with his/her potential to raise the consciousness of the human condition. Useful in healing a blockage of the rightful use of the self. Such blockages result in ego imbalance.
7. SYNERGISTIC ETHER FORCE Perhaps the ultimate Etheric Force, it is composed of varying quantities of the previously mentioned Etheric components (depending upon circumstances). This Ether represents the coming together of karmic forces in such a way as to contribute to the enlightenment of the race in a most highly orchestrated fashion. THIS WILL BE THE SOURCE OF FREE ENERGY. IT WILL BE KARMICALLY DIRECTED AND UNIQUELY SIMPLE.

Read it all here, you need to scroll almost to the bottom of the page:
http://www.svpvril.com/Cosmology/addendum3.html
Al

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Nyteshadecreed
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Post by Nyteshadecreed » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:46 pm

Very interesting!!
Nyte

Wondering in the darkness, but never alone...

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jojomojo
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Post by jojomojo » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:55 pm

:) Its the placebo effect.
IF you beleive the pill your given is The cure . :smt003 your mind tells your body that ithe medicine you have been give is curing your ailment when in fact it is your own mind body spyrit doing all of the cureing. WE are amazing and wierd creatures,and the workings of our selfs will hopefully never be fully known..
joanne bain, III

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