Cold readings

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Post by eye_of_tiger » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:00 am

Now I understand better what you meant by a reading which is not a true one.

A cold reading is not actually a reading at all, but is effectively a guessing game where the false reader bases his or her information purely on the responses and body language of the sitter.

This is the type of unethical behavior which often gives genuine readers a bad reputation which they do not deserve in the eyes of the public and I know of at least one world class medium where her guide temporarily pulled the plug on her psychic abilities, when she made the mistake of giving a cold reading in the absence of any psychic connection happening with that particular client at that performance.

With psychic abilities comes a great burden of responsibility to use your gifts in an ethical and honest manner, and even a transient lapse can lead to unforeseen negative consequences for the psychic, either during his or her current lifetime or alternately in some future existence.

Salutations from one reader to another,

EoT  :smt020

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:48 am

eye_of_tiger wrote:Now I understand better what you meant by a reading which is not a true one.

A cold reading is not actually a reading at all, but is effectively a guessing game where the false reader bases his or her information purely on the responses and body language of the sitter.

This is the type of unethical behavior which often gives genuine readers a bad reputation which they do not deserve in the eyes of the public and I know of at least one world class medium where her guide temporarily pulled the plug on her psychic abilities, when she made the mistake of giving a cold reading in the absence of any psychic connection happening with that particular client at that performance.

With psychic abilities comes a great burden of responsibility to use your gifts in an ethical and honest manner, and even a transient lapse can lead to unforeseen negative consequences for the psychic, either during his or her current lifetime or alternately in some future existence.

Salutations from one reader to another,

EoT  :smt020
Dear EoT,

A "cold" reading is not necessarily unethical unless someone is trying to "show-off" (fairly common trait in a minority of divinators, perhaps reflecting co-existing immaturity or a false sense of power just because they became divinators) or worse *scam* someone (sadly, also seen from time to time in a field which is essentially self-regulated if not entirely unregulated!).

A cold reading can actually be a very useful confidence-building exercise for all divinators. Particularly those who have too vivid (even wild?) imaginations or other factors that influence their 'divinatory' awareness. It should best be done quietly so as to not turn divination into a circus of sorts, as is seen from time to time too, probably mostly in astrology, palmistry forums etc on internet and off internet).

Love, Light, Reality (as observed!),

Rohiniranjan
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:54 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
eye_of_tiger wrote:Now I understand better what you meant by a reading which is not a true one.

A cold reading is not actually a reading at all, but is effectively a guessing game where the false reader bases his or her information purely on the responses and body language of the sitter.

This is the type of unethical behavior which often gives genuine readers a bad reputation which they do not deserve in the eyes of the public and I know of at least one world class medium where her guide temporarily pulled the plug on her psychic abilities, when she made the mistake of giving a cold reading in the absence of any psychic connection happening with that particular client at that performance.

With psychic abilities comes a great burden of responsibility to use your gifts in an ethical and honest manner, and even a transient lapse can lead to unforeseen negative consequences for the psychic, either during his or her current lifetime or alternately in some future existence.

Salutations from one reader to another,

EoT  :smt020
Dear EoT,

A "cold" reading is not necessarily unethical unless someone is trying to "show-off" (fairly common trait in a minority of divinators, perhaps reflecting co-existing immaturity or a false sense of power just because they became divinators) or worse *scam* someone (sadly, also seen from time to time in a field which is essentially self-regulated if not entirely unregulated!).

A cold reading can actually be a very useful confidence-building exercise for all divinators. Particularly those who have too vivid (even wild?) imaginations or other factors that influence their 'divinatory' awareness. It should best be done quietly so as to not turn divination into a circus of sorts, as is seen from time to time too, probably mostly in astrology, palmistry forums etc on internet and off internet).

Love, Light, Reality (as observed!),

Rohiniranjan
[As an afterthought, a highly respected segment of jyotish is devoted to the practice of 'mook prashna' where the nativity or concerned relative approaches the astrologer without saying a single word about the issue of concern, and the latter uses special horary techniques (including spiritual rituals at times) to delve into the matter at hand and provides answers. In the hands of a proficient practitioner, it is carried out sacredly and is neither a gimmick nor unethical or at least not meant to be!]
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Post by eye_of_tiger » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:36 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
eye_of_tiger wrote:Now I understand better what you meant by a reading which is not a true one.

A cold reading is not actually a reading at all, but is effectively a guessing game where the false reader bases his or her information purely on the responses and body language of the sitter.

This is the type of unethical behavior which often gives genuine readers a bad reputation which they do not deserve in the eyes of the public and I know of at least one world class medium where her guide temporarily pulled the plug on her psychic abilities, when she made the mistake of giving a cold reading in the absence of any psychic connection happening with that particular client at that performance.

With psychic abilities comes a great burden of responsibility to use your gifts in an ethical and honest manner, and even a transient lapse can lead to unforeseen negative consequences for the psychic, either during his or her current lifetime or alternately in some future existence.

Salutations from one reader to another,

EoT  :smt020
Dear EoT,

A "cold" reading is not necessarily unethical unless someone is trying to "show-off" (fairly common trait in a minority of divinators, perhaps reflecting co-existing immaturity or a false sense of power just because they became divinators) or worse *scam* someone (sadly, also seen from time to time in a field which is essentially self-regulated if not entirely unregulated!).

A cold reading can actually be a very useful confidence-building exercise for all divinators. Particularly those who have too vivid (even wild?) imaginations or other factors that influence their 'divinatory' awareness. It should best be done quietly so as to not turn divination into a circus of sorts, as is seen from time to time too, probably mostly in astrology, palmistry forums etc on internet and off internet).

Love, Light, Reality (as observed!),

Rohiniranjan
The only situation where I believe that a cold reading is ethical is when it is done by mutual agreement, and with the full knowledge of the sitter. If it is being done as a confidence building exercise for the reader, it is only if both these conditions are obeyed that I would see it as being morally right to do it.

And what sort of confidence does it give the reader? The confidence that if their real abilities fail them that they will always have a backup plan to fall back on to keep their sitter impressed by their so called psychic powers, as well as keep them coming to them and crossing their palms with silver?

The idea that cold readings are only unethical if you charge for them or when it is done to show off is completely offensive to me and to me continuing to give free readings on Mystic Board.

If free cold readings are OK, then this automatically devalues and makes a total mockery of free readings, as something which you do to build up your ego or what you do when you are not giving a real reading.

It sounds very much like the philosophy that doing anything is alright as long as you do not get caught doing it.

I will not aplogise for believing that cold readings are morally wrong, and have no place in the life of a genuine and committed reader, which is in their clients best interests. If what amounts to cheating builds up your confidence as a reader then it is time for you to stop trying to help people this way, as you are actually doing more harm than good to them by continuing the deception.

EOT

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Post by eye_of_tiger » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:22 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
eye_of_tiger wrote:Now I understand better what you meant by a reading which is not a true one.

A cold reading is not actually a reading at all, but is effectively a guessing game where the false reader bases his or her information purely on the responses and body language of the sitter.

This is the type of unethical behavior which often gives genuine readers a bad reputation which they do not deserve in the eyes of the public and I know of at least one world class medium where her guide temporarily pulled the plug on her psychic abilities, when she made the mistake of giving a cold reading in the absence of any psychic connection happening with that particular client at that performance.

With psychic abilities comes a great burden of responsibility to use your gifts in an ethical and honest manner, and even a transient lapse can lead to unforeseen negative consequences for the psychic, either during his or her current lifetime or alternately in some future existence.

Salutations from one reader to another,

EoT  :smt020
Dear EoT,

A "cold" reading is not necessarily unethical unless someone is trying to "show-off" (fairly common trait in a minority of divinators, perhaps reflecting co-existing immaturity or a false sense of power just because they became divinators) or worse *scam* someone (sadly, also seen from time to time in a field which is essentially self-regulated if not entirely unregulated!).

A cold reading can actually be a very useful confidence-building exercise for all divinators. Particularly those who have too vivid (even wild?) imaginations or other factors that influence their 'divinatory' awareness. It should best be done quietly so as to not turn divination into a circus of sorts, as is seen from time to time too, probably mostly in astrology, palmistry forums etc on internet and off internet).

Love, Light, Reality (as observed!),

Rohiniranjan
[As an afterthought, a highly respected segment of jyotish is devoted to the practice of 'mook prashna' where the nativity or concerned relative approaches the astrologer without saying a single word about the issue of concern, and the latter uses special horary techniques (including spiritual rituals at times) to delve into the matter at hand and provides answers. In the hands of a proficient practitioner, it is carried out sacredly and is neither a gimmick nor unethical or at least not meant to be!]
As I have no knowledge of or interest in mook prashna I am unable to make any comments about a possible similarity or relationship which it might have with what I call cold readings.

EoT  :smt017

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:37 am

eye_of_tiger wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
eye_of_tiger wrote:Now I understand better what you meant by a reading which is not a true one.

A cold reading is not actually a reading at all, but is effectively a guessing game where the false reader bases his or her information purely on the responses and body language of the sitter.

This is the type of unethical behavior which often gives genuine readers a bad reputation which they do not deserve in the eyes of the public and I know of at least one world class medium where her guide temporarily pulled the plug on her psychic abilities, when she made the mistake of giving a cold reading in the absence of any psychic connection happening with that particular client at that performance.

With psychic abilities comes a great burden of responsibility to use your gifts in an ethical and honest manner, and even a transient lapse can lead to unforeseen negative consequences for the psychic, either during his or her current lifetime or alternately in some future existence.

Salutations from one reader to another,

EoT  :smt020
Dear EoT,

A "cold" reading is not necessarily unethical unless someone is trying to "show-off" (fairly common trait in a minority of divinators, perhaps reflecting co-existing immaturity or a false sense of power just because they became divinators) or worse *scam* someone (sadly, also seen from time to time in a field which is essentially self-regulated if not entirely unregulated!).

A cold reading can actually be a very useful confidence-building exercise for all divinators. Particularly those who have too vivid (even wild?) imaginations or other factors that influence their 'divinatory' awareness. It should best be done quietly so as to not turn divination into a circus of sorts, as is seen from time to time too, probably mostly in astrology, palmistry forums etc on internet and off internet).

Love, Light, Reality (as observed!),

Rohiniranjan
The only situation where I believe that a cold reading is ethical is when it is done by mutual agreement, and with the full knowledge of the sitter. If it is being done as a confidence building exercise for the reader, it is only if both these conditions are obeyed that I would see it as being morally right to do it.

And what sort of confidence does it give the reader? The confidence that if their real abilities fail them that they will always have a backup plan to fall back on to keep their sitter impressed by their so called psychic powers, as well as keep them coming to them and crossing their palms with silver?

The idea that cold readings are only unethical if you charge for them or when it is done to show off is completely offensive to me and to me continuing to give free readings on Mystic Board.

If free cold readings are OK, then this automatically devalues and makes a total mockery of free readings, as something which you do to build up your ego or what you do when you are not giving a real reading.

It sounds very much like the philosophy that doing anything is alright as long as you do not get caught doing it.

I will not aplogise for believing that cold readings are morally wrong, and have no place in the life of a genuine and committed reader, which is in their clients best interests. If what amounts to cheating builds up your confidence as a reader then it is time for you to stop trying to help people this way, as you are actually doing more harm than good to them by continuing the deception.

EOT

Addendum by EOT (separate message)
As I have no knowledge of or interest in mook prashna I am unable to make any comments about a possible similarity or relationship which it might have with what I call cold readings.

EoT  


My dear EoT,

Hmmm..., looks like I must begin with addressing your added 2nd response!

To me a cold reading (aka blind reading) is where the reading seeker is not known to the divinator and the divinator does not ask about the reason for the reading and solely produces the divinatory output based on the mode of divination utilized. So, no "leads" or 'leading questions' are involved and which presumably can colour the reading or create bias in the mind of the divinator.

The situation implies that the reading seeker is not trying to 'jerk the divinator around' and that creates bad blood and is definitely a wasteful, cruel and immoral thing to do. We do run into such "characters", but generally on internet forums and particularly where free readings are offered and the reading seeker has little investment of time or anything. Such mischief makers must not be tolerated by divinators and forum members in general who participate with seriousness of intent and often feel supported in a spiritual and divinatory forum like this one.

Since this is a free readings forum and I am/was talking within the context of this or similar internet forum, I shall not address the 'crossing palms with silver' comment you made! That said, individuals including divinators (astros, palmists, psychics, tarot readers, etc etc) would have their personal reasons for engaging in divinatory activities and so as long as their intent remains truly pure and not an exercise to pump their egos or other similar motivations, the question of morality does not enter. A divinator, essentially is not different in that from other professionals and practitioners despite the somewhat intangible and unusual modality of providing service, compared to a doctor, teacher, priest, plumber, electrician, car mechanic! Here I am comparing their morality and ethics and not comparing their crafts!

By this point, I am hopeful that we both are probably utilizing the term 'cold' reading differently. I have explained what I meant, and gave an example of the horary modality used by some astrologers morally as well as a learning tool by some beginners and a calibrating tool by those more experienced.

A scammer would be a scammer whether he or she is a divinator or doing something else. We hope and pray that such folks stay away from this or other divinatory forums because they give divinators and divination a bad name. As it stands, divination is not treated as a very desirable calling in general public from where most of the reading seekers arise! Many of these, particularly those with just curiosity, skepticism (personal experiences or word of mouth or press), do not approach due to significant personal problems and basically are wasting the time of the divinators and also 'using up the spot' of someone who might have a bigger need.

I will touch up on another thing that the divinators must be watchful about. Being humans and most of us not living a monastic existence (in other words worldly folks with a divinatory leaning or gift that we wish to share freely), are subject to fatigue and burn-out, if we overutilize our abilities while ignoring our personal needs! There are umpteen techniques to avoid getting into that negative state and folks here probably know many of those so I will not belabour the point. We should all practice those, if not regularly, at least from time to time.

Love, Light, Sharing,

Rohiniranjan
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Let us agree to disagree, then move forward from here

Post by eye_of_tiger » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:59 pm

It is clear that our definitions of what constitutes a cold reading are very different, and unless they are the same this discussion is going nowhere fast.

I also think that we have unintentionally from an intellectual point of view gone off on a tangent from this thread belonging to our valued member.

A fact which seems to be overlooked in our desire to debate what is purely a technical difference of opinion.

Since we are never going to change our positions about what a cold reading is, I vote that we end the debate here in the best interests of everyone concerned.

Helping people solve their own problems is  and will always be more important to and of much more interest to me than debating ad nauseam the meaning of a specific word.

Thank you for contributing but I have bigger fish to fry, or in other words more important personal issues to deal with in helping our members to be using my limited energies in this manner.

Regards,

EoT

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Re: Let us agree to disagree, then move forward from here

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:12 pm

eye_of_tiger wrote:It is clear that our definitions of what constitutes a cold reading are very different, and unless they are the same this discussion is going nowhere fast.

I also think that we have unintentionally from an intellectual point of view gone off on a tangent from this thread belonging to our valued member.

A fact which seems to be overlooked in our desire to debate what is purely a technical difference of opinion.

Since we are never going to change our positions about what a cold reading is, I vote that we end the debate here in the best interests of everyone concerned.

Helping people solve their own problems is  and will always be more important to and of much more interest to me than debating ad nauseam the meaning of a specific word.

Thank you for contributing but I have bigger fish to fry, or in other words more important personal issues to deal with in helping our members to be using my limited energies in this manner.

Regards,

EoT
I was merely expressing my perspective about what is generally understood by a 'cold' reading. Not trying to discuss or convince you etc.

Happy fishing! ;-)

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
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Post by eye_of_tiger » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:58 pm

I have created a separate topic about cold readings for those of you who would also like to discuss this subject.

These postings were originally appended to another thread, so if any part of them does not make sense to you, please refer back to the original thread to understanding the meaning of what is written, but now in its proper context.

http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=84306

To continue this discussion I wish to add the following information, this time from a purely Australian perspective.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

Please see the above item from Wikipedia, which gives the most commonly accepted meaning of what makes a reading a cold one.

A definition BTW which is often used over here in Australia to identify and legally prosecute false psychics who deceitfully claim to possess genuine psychic abilities (and charge a fee for their services), but are in reality running a scam which takes unfair advantage of some of the most vulnerable people in our community.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

http://thesaurus.com/browse/scam

EoT

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FOCUS!

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:22 pm

Languages have their constantly changing ways
An industry rife with its own fickle blinding ways
The antics of semantics shall lie thus always?

Gay it means not, to be 'happy' anymore
As too a smoking 'term' now causing furore

It is not whether 'tis cold or warm
A SCAM will always remain a SCAM!





The IMPORTANT thing to not lose sight of, is this predisposition of certain 'readers'! On the nebulous-sounding path of divination, by large a self-regulated avocation and pursuit -- the existence of a few, perhaps many (?) shady characters that brings bad name to the pursuit and practice is what must receive society's energy and attention! And more importantly the attention of those who are in powerful positions and able to regulate the activity of the readers! Easier said/wished than done, particularly if they themselves are not pure! Unfortunately, in most countries and communities divination and spiritual services remain self-regulated and perhaps will for the times to come.

The radical (root) question then must be asked as to with what intentions  does one engage in this practice of counselling others by means such as psychic modalities or the mantic ones as those are called; some listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methods_of_divination

Now 'cutting' for instance as a technique/activity goes!
If a knife falls in the hands of a butcher he will use it to feed people, if in the hands of a criminal he will slash or kill others, but in the hand of a skilled artist it will bring out the beauty that was trapped in a piece of ugly wood.

So, as stated at the beginning, and even before several times earlier:

A scammer will remain a scammer even if shows up in the garbs and wrappings of a divinator! <SIGH>


Love, Light, Simplicity,

Rohiniranjan

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:43 pm

Thanks, but according to this link, it is not cold alone but warm and hot can be considered too as not being above reproach and hence worthy of our collective scorn ;-)

It all boils down to the basics, my friend!
A SCAM will always remain a SCAM!

(as elaborated in a parallel message posted by me in this thread. It is from this earthly dimension, by the way, and not borrowed from some parallel dimension or universe! <LOL

Rohiniranjan


eye_of_tiger wrote:I have created a separate topic about cold readings for those of you who would also like to discuss this subject.

These postings were originally appended to another thread, so if any part of them does not make sense to you, please refer back to the original thread to understanding the meaning of what is written, but now in its proper context.

http://mysticboard.org/vi ... hp?t=84306

To continue this discussion I wish to add the following information, this time from a purely Australian perspective.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

Please see the above item from Wikipedia, which gives the most commonly accepted meaning of what makes a reading a cold one.

A definition BTW which is often used over here in Australia to identify and legally prosecute false psychics who deceitfully claim to possess genuine psychic abilities (and charge a fee for their services), but are in reality running a scam which takes unfair advantage of some of the most vulnerable people in our community.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

http://thesaurus.com/browse/scam

EoT
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