Karma / re-incarnation

Do u believe in rebirth or reincarnation? Do u believe in Past Life Experience? Discuss and Know more about it here

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Jayashree Ravi
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Karma / re-incarnation

Post by Jayashree Ravi » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:03 pm

Hello,

The discussion about 'karma' or lack of it, brought to my memory the movie I watched called "Lucy". In the movie, they describe how an average human uses only 10% of his brain and how dolphins, although not having 6th sense like humans, still are very intelligent that utilize 20% of the brain and have some unique capabilities w.r.t navigation due to this increased use of brain power.

Well, it is a largely disputed theory that man uses only 10% of the brain -- some negate and say man infact uses 100% of the brain.

To an onlooker, it appears the answer is neither of the extremes and could be somewhere in between -- and the concept of 'intelligence' or IQ may have something to do with putting to use a higher percentage of the brain and using parts of the brain that aren't normally used, via penances, meditation and such.

But given the universal nature and eternal belief by people of all ages, race, creed or religion in concepts as re-incarnation and karma, and given the intricacies of any study delving deeply into religion (it is a rich subject for exploration), it atleast appears doubtful that religion and concepts thereof could have emerged only from some 'super humans' (if it were merely just humans that brought them about) and given the nature of a primitive man devoid of present day's amenities for self-study, introspection and growth, that he could have really had the capability to postulate them!

Or unless perhaps, the primitive man had some higher intellectual capabilities that he lost gradually as his spinal cord straightened!

Let's face some rich doctrines (as per Hinduism) that relate to the subject of how a man can evolve:

* Belief in atman to be the sole witness of all activities of a man.

* The various yogic paths - Hatha, Kriya, Prana.

* Kundalini and the 7 chakras of the body.

* The Universe model (of 14 worlds - 7 upper and 7 lower) and how they are manifested within the body.

* The rich and diverse set and hierarchy of gods and goddesses.

* Belief systems such Jyotish (with all its complexities).

* The vedas which are vast like ocean, and then the vedanga like upanishads, the puranas and such.

So did some primitive man come upon all of the above, and then other primitive men like him, placed elsewhere on earth, derive upon their own version of equally exhaustive and theoretically (at least) rich set of principles?

May be! May be not! ;)
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Post by Jayashree Ravi » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:37 pm

...And given the vastness of it all, no one man at one point of time came upon it...

Many, many over many, many different timespans must have come upon it.

And funny they all still seem to compliment each others... the findings of vedangas that might have evolved later than the vedas compliment findings in vedas, and so forth.

And still funnier, nobody seems to invent conflicting theories on soul, and nobody came upon revisions and newer versions as mankind progressed scientifically through ages...
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

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Post by Talia » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:48 pm

I have no idea what some of those words mean, but I know I get a lot of my knowledge from my clairvoyance, my 'clear seeing'. I just know. I can type without thinking and logical answrs come from my fingertips.
I have experienced past livesd and one of them, the furthest back I have gone so far was before the 3 pyramids, there was only one, and the belief systems then were very strong and formed already,
I am not sure whagt you are trying to say but I felt I had to respond and learn more even though I know you will not want it as much as a male response.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:20 pm

Talia wrote:...
I have experienced past livesd and one of them, the furthest back I have gone so far was before the 3 pyramids...
Graham Hancock wrote down his findings on related matters in his Fingerprint of Gods and other sequelae. Very fascinating case he laid out which raises serious questions about what modern wisdom claims as the history of the pyramids (Egyptian as well as others...!). Also, nicely ties up certain beliefs and belief-systems that make one wonder if there was a common source in the lands before time ;-)

Fascinating account!!

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Post by Jayashree Ravi » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:44 pm

Talia wrote:I have no idea what some of those words mean, but I know I get a lot of my knowledge from my clairvoyance, my 'clear seeing'. I just know. I can type without thinking and logical answrs come from my fingertips.
I have experienced past livesd and one of them, the furthest back I have gone so far was before the 3 pyramids, there was only one, and the belief systems then were very strong and formed already,
I am not sure whagt you are trying to say but I felt I had to respond and learn more even though I know you will not want it as much as a male response.
Hi Talia,

What makes you think I would not like your reply as much as a "male" reply? :D  :smt017

I believe a woman as you, are equally or perhaps more intelligent than an average male. Especially more so since you are psychic, which fascinates me.

Let me try to address i) what I am trying to say ii) some key terms I used.

i) I am trying to say that religion (any, but in this case Hindu) and karma being the subject of exhaustive study, no single human could have come upon them (no way!). For example, the vedas alone are 4 in number and cannot be mastered in 1 single lifetime of a man/woman. Given there are numerous and equally exhaustive branches of study in religion, there must have been numerous contributors over the ages that contributed to the thoughts (if it is believed to have human origin). So I am asking, how much all these thoughts, compliment the ones postulated before them and how come, no new theory of karma or soul or re-incarnation or even a new "veda" or a new system of gods and goddesses or a new definition of various realms of existence were postulated. Instead, all theories seem to compliment one another, rather completely! (Either man was a "super human" to being with, when he was walking earth as a neandarthal /ape-man and when he became more human, he lost this power. OR there is only 1 truth as revealed by god to man and that is why this never changes -- I believe in the latter).

ii) Some key terms I used -

vedas - These are 4 in number, believed to have emerged from the nostrils/breath of Lord Brahma (a god). They are very, very, unimaginably exhaustive.

vedanga - they are additions to vedas but not exactly vedas. Astrology (jyotish) is one of them.

upanishads and puranas - these are stories of happenings and events in the realm of godly existence and they teach the lessons of the vedas for the commoner.

yogas (prana, ashtanga, kriya) - Various yoga types whereby the Kundalini can be made to ascend from its coil in 'muladhara' and reach the 7th and highest chakra of the body resulting in a man's emancipation.

lokas - other worlds (but also including the earth) that are totally 14 in number. 7 of them are underworlds and 7 (including the earth) are upper worlds. They have their own lords, inhabitants and functions.

gods and goddesses - As per Hindu thought, there are 33 crore of them. They are classified as eternal gods, celestials, custodians and so forth. The eternal gods of Hinduism aren't as many in number, but still quite large in number (maybe in 100's) each having a specific look. For example, Ganesha has an elephant face, has 4 arms each holding a different thing, a potted belly and mouse as his vehicle. Skanda sits on a peacock. Shiva is seen dancing. Vishnu is seen lying on a bed of serpent in the ocean. Lakshmi holds a vessel of gold coins, and so forth. So far, nobody has come upon alternative theories on how these gods look!

atman - other term for the eternal 'soul'. It stands testimony/witnesses every human's action as each one gets a copy of it. At the end of the lifetime, the atman gets released from the body and stands trial to the human's action during its stay in the body. When a human's karmas have exhausted, the atman eternally reaches the abode of god. :smt007

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Re: Karma / re-incarnation

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:09 am

Jayashree Ravi wrote:...* Belief systems such Jyotish (with all its complexities)...
Hello Jayashree, good to see your writing. In your message, this fragment caught my eye since I am a jyotishi. If I understand correctly this would imply that jyotish and possibly astrology in general represent belief systems. Wouldn't that mean that these methods of 'divination' work for those who (rightly or wrongly) believe in these modalities-frameworks. So in other words, these would never work in the case of true sceptics. But we hear so many times that sceptics become converts when they dabble with astrology, but dabble sincerely and not with a cunning biased agenda.

Am I understanding your statement about jyotish being a belief-system correctly?
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Re: Karma / re-incarnation

Post by Jayashree Ravi » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:48 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
Jayashree Ravi wrote:...* Belief systems such Jyotish (with all its complexities)...
Hello Jayashree, good to see your writing. In your message, this fragment caught my eye since I am a jyotishi. If I understand correctly this would imply that jyotish and possibly astrology in general represent belief systems. Wouldn't that mean that these methods of 'divination' work for those who (rightly or wrongly) believe in these modalities-frameworks. So in other words, these would never work in the case of true sceptics. But we hear so many times that sceptics become converts when they dabble with astrology, but dabble sincerely and not with a cunning biased agenda.

Am I understanding your statement about jyotish being a belief-system correctly?
Hello RR,

I am not saying the belief or disbelief in jyotish will procure different results. But for certain aspects like remedies, the fundamental necessity for benefiting from jyotish itself is the 'belief' factor and yes, the term 'belief system' works the way you mention, in such cases.

If people believe in jyotish and do pariharas with faith, jyotish will 'work' for them. If they do not do pariharas owing to lack of faith/belief, jyotish cannot work for them.

By 'work' I mean ability of Jyotish to redeem people by changing course of events for them.

(If they are skeptics beyond hope, then doesn't it automatically mean they could not be convinced with events happening as per prediction alone? Maybe they want jyotish to alter course of events for them, and will agree only upon such a thing happening, but how will it happen without faith in the first place?)

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Re: Karma / re-incarnation

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:00 pm

Jayashree Ravi wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Jayashree Ravi wrote:...* Belief systems such Jyotish (with all its complexities)...
Hello Jayashree, good to see your writing. In your message, this fragment caught my eye since I am a jyotishi. If I understand correctly this would imply that jyotish and possibly astrology in general represent belief systems. Wouldn't that mean that these methods of 'divination' work for those who (rightly or wrongly) believe in these modalities-frameworks. So in other words, these would never work in the case of true sceptics. But we hear so many times that sceptics become converts when they dabble with astrology, but dabble sincerely and not with a cunning biased agenda.

Am I understanding your statement about jyotish being a belief-system correctly?
Hello RR,

I am not saying the belief or disbelief in jyotish will procure different results. But for certain aspects like remedies, the fundamental necessity for benefiting from jyotish itself is the 'belief' factor and yes, the term 'belief system' works the way you mention, in such cases.

If people believe in jyotish and do pariharas with faith, jyotish will 'work' for them. If they do not do pariharas owing to lack of faith/belief, jyotish cannot work for them.

By 'work' I mean ability of Jyotish to redeem people by changing course of events for them.

(If they are skeptics beyond hope, then doesn't it automatically mean they could not be convinced with events happening as per prediction alone? Maybe they want jyotish to alter course of events for them, and will agree only upon such a thing happening, but how will it happen without faith in the first place?)
Agree to some extent about efficacy or inefficacy of so called remedies which require a lot of involvement of belief/faith and long hard work by the nativity (client). But if you look at most of the ancient writings which are the source of most of modern jyotish, the remedials and parihar forms just a small fraction of the written material. Unfortunately, that has gotten promoted by many practitioners as the major element of jyotish and is possibly harming the sanctity of jyotish as a discipline.

But as they say, consumerism rules and consumers dictate the practice and then wonder what went wrong  :smt017
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Re: Karma / re-incarnation

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:14 pm

Jayashree Ravi wrote:...(If they are skeptics beyond hope, then doesn't it automatically mean they could not be convinced with events happening as per prediction alone? Maybe they want jyotish to alter course of events for them, and will agree only upon such a thing happening, but how will it happen without faith in the first place?)
Responding to this separately for simplicity. The sceptics (Sagans and Randis for example) tend to be those who have bought into material scientific realm (Newtonian Physics). However, gradually we all are gaining a better appreciation, awareness, understanding, acceptance of the validity of the heretofore untapped Quantum realm which seems to lend credence to what divinators and psychics etc had been 'tuned-in' all along. Some of the problems and clashes have been brought upon (mostly) themselves by astrologers who were a bit too eager in proclaiming that astrology (as we know it today) is science. Astrologers who are also scientists have been cautioning against that kind of premature conclusion in their writings and speech but the voices of consumerism were sounding sweeter to the ailing ears of nativities and many of them sadly suffered but hopefully eventually got wiser...?

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Re: Karma / re-incarnation

Post by Jayashree Ravi » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:02 pm

Hello RR,

I have taken the liberty to rephrase your reply above (as much as I can) so that this thread invites readers. (I had difficulty following your reply, had to read it couple of times to be able to follow....).

(My father was an English scholar and was regarded "walking dictionary". But when I was in 5th ad 6th std, when asked, he would write speeches for me in such bombastic language, almost everytime he wrote them for me, I failed to win a prize -- obviously, people are rather simple-minded to understand jargon).
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Responding to this separately for simplicity. The sceptics (Sagans and Randis for example) tend to be those who have bought into material scientific realm (Newtonian Physics). However, gradually we all are gaining a better appreciation, awareness, understanding, acceptance of the validity of the heretofore untapped Quantum realm which seems to lend credence to what divinators and psychics etc had been 'tuned-in' all along.
The skeptics are mostly believers of pure laws of science (Newtonian Physics). Whereas, these days, the 'Quantum realm' of divination skills, which was the gift of so-called divinators and psychics is gaining in acceptance.
Some of the problems and clashes have been brought upon (mostly) themselves by astrologers who were a bit too eager in proclaiming that astrology (as we know it today) is science.
Ok, no need to rephrase that.
Astrologers who are also scientists have been cautioning against that kind of premature conclusion in their writings and speech but the voices of consumerism were sounding sweeter to the ailing ears of nativities and many of them sadly suffered but hopefully eventually got wiser...?
Astrologers with enough grounding in science educated people that astrology should not viewed as pure science. But people, falling pray to popular belief, and hoping for 'miracles' via astrological measures (and remedies) turned a deaf-ear, eventually to learn their lessons that harder way - that astrological predictions and remedies cannot be depended upon like one can depend on 'science'.
Last edited by Jayashree Ravi on Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Karma / re-incarnation

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:48 pm

Thanks Jayashree, but I was responding to you specifically and not trying to write for what you term as 'masses', and certainly not with an agenda to draw crowds of readers to this thread or my writing etc :-)

Since you managed to rephrase to your satisfaction what I wrote, obviously you were successful in understanding what I wrote and since what I wrote was intended for you, I have already been successful ;-)
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Post by Ms_Guided Angel » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:50 am

Hi Jayashree, thank you for this post. I look forward to learning more about Karma and the Hindu beliefs!
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Post by Jayashree Ravi » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:56 am

Ms_Guided Angel wrote:Hi Jayashree, thank you for this post. I look forward to learning more about Karma and the Hindu beliefs!
Welcome, Ms_Guided Angel! Very nice of you to appreciate my effort. Please feel free to contribute about the doctrines of any other religion - how it views (or invalidates) Karma, etc. Their views on re-incarnation... I only chose to write about Hinduism as that is the only thing I am aware of, at present.

Many thanks.
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Re: Karma / re-incarnation

Post by Jayashree Ravi » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:14 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:Thanks Jayashree, but I was responding to you specifically and not trying to write for what you term as 'masses', and certainly not with an agenda to draw crowds of readers to this thread or my writing etc :-)

Since you managed to rephrase to your satisfaction what I wrote, obviously you were successful in understanding what I wrote and since what I wrote was intended for you, I have already been successful ;-)
Hi RR,

Thanks for not taking my comments offensively -- shows you are a matured, caring person! Appreciate that.

I both edited my original reply, and I repeat again here -- I only rephrased your nice reply because I could not understand it when I read it 1 or 2 times. I had to re-read several times.

Nevertheless, BRAVO! (Both to your great attitude as well as for your mastery over English).

(Apologies for my comments earlier).

PS: Do you have any extra-sensory perception skills? I strongly suspect you do.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:33 am

Thanks for your kind words, Jayashree.
As to extra-sensory perception skills, going by the plethora of new age gurus, mystics, clairvoyants, etc etc etc, all beings (not just humans) have such skills. In some these emerge and express dominantly.

Karma, good habits, heavenly grace, relevant reincarnations -- who knows. In mystic ambience anything and everything is possible <LOL>

There are of course a few who get impatient during their growth and then we see the pseudo psychics and pseudo clairvoyants &nbsp;:smt010

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