Judas betrayed the human incarnation. Judas may be an ordinary human being or may be the servant of Lord who belongs to the innermost circle. Thus there are two possibilities. Let us examine the scripture in the light of both the possibilities. If he is an ordinary human being, he shall be punished by death given by the judgement or he shall punish himself by committing suicide. The latter part of punishment was advised by Lord Jesus Himself. Jesus told that it is better himself to cut ones own sinful hand than falling in the eternal fire.
If the human being is a realised soul, he will follow the instruction of Jesus and will commit suicide. But if the human being is like an animal, he will betray the Lord and go away with the bribe. For such a fellow, the judgement in the court is required in this world. If he escapes the judgement here, he will certainly go to the liquid fire. Now Judas proved himself as a realised soul. According to Jesus, if you punish yourself for your own sin, you need not go to the hell. In Hinduism also, Manu Smruthi says ‘the sinner punished by the king in this world gets rid of his sin and goes to heaven.’ (Rajabhih Dhruta Dandastu …. Manu Smruthi).
Even from the court of law, we know that a single crime cannot have two punishments. Therefore if you take Judas as an ordinary human being, then also, he need not go to hell. Now if you analyse the case, in the path of second possibility, the devotee of the Lord acted in that bad role and punished himself for his own sin. In that case he has given the message to the world and entered the inner circle of the Lord after playing his due role. In both these possibilities, the scripture applies in toto. The conclusion of both the possibilities is only that one should not betray the Lord in human form.
If one betrays the creator it is better that he ends his life and join the list of unborn persons. This is the meaning of the statement of the scripture. Especially in the case of Judas, he became the disciple of Jesus for sometime. Betraying the spiritual preacher, who is the Lord in human form (Satguru) is the highest sin. No other way of repentance is justified. Betraying an ordinary human being itself is the highest sin. Betraying the Lord is higher than the highest sin. This shows the purity of the Lord and the importance that should be given to the Lord.
At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami
ANIL ANTONY
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
http://www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
Jesus – Judas- Betrayal
Moderators: eye_of_tiger, shalimar123
Dattaswami, For someone who lives in India? I'd say you still have much to learn, or think about really. Now, I will not say what you believe is wrong or incorrect but I believe it is my time, maybe my duty to put my own input on this, seeing as how I AM here, have been shown this site.
From my perspective;
Judas does not belong to the innermost circle of God. It had been prophecized that a man (Judas) would betray the Messiah (Jesus). And just as Jesus was so was Judas - a human being.
You say "eternal fire" but have you seen this fire? Have you been there? That is up to each person to believe. Again, from my perspective, that teaching of Jesus that you should cut your own hand if it were to commit a sin is to illustrate in your own mind how much more painful the sin is than cutting your own hand. Where does sin lead? Guilt. The fact that Judas killed himself is ironic. He was a diciple of Jesus so should he have known that for his sin, which, infact, was a not a sin, all he would need to do is ask Jesus, the VERY man whom he betrayed, for forgiveness, the very thing Jesus had been preaching about from the beginning. As I stated, there was no sin commited by Judas but he was filled with guilt that he did betray such goodness, and only if he knew it to be good would he feel guilty of such.
I feel the "liquid fire" is the guilt and pain you put yourself through after commiting a "sin". It is the un-easyness of yourself, your guilty-concious. And as Jesus taught, only through Him, to explain to Him your sin, your guilt, your remorse, can you be freed of that guilt, that mental anguish and become closer to God - closer than you COULD become if you decided not to ask Him for forgiveness.
As you have shown,
"In Hinduism also, Manu Smruthi says ‘the sinner punished by the king in this world gets rid of his sin and goes to heaven.’ (Rajabhih Dhruta Dandastu …. Manu Smruthi)."
You have not put much thought into it, which may just be a good thing. One of the main concepts of Hinduism is Karma and that is exactly what this excerp is referring to.
No matter what good you do or what bad you do the same will be done unto you. So, if you were to kill someone you yourself just might be killed this lifetime or the next. And if you did good deeds for people your next lifetime will reflect that on, maybe, how happy you are or content with your life.
That excerp could be translated to "You will meet the Maker but will be punished for your own deeds before you do." The Yin and the Yang. See?
The court of law is not the law of God. Most reasons why one would go to court is for what Biblical term we know as sin. The court of law cannot forgive you of you sin, the court of law plays the role of Karma. Now remember that not all killers are found and prosecuted, but their time will come in their next lifetime.
A single crime, or sin, can have two and more punishments but by whom or to whom depends on the crime/sin.
A scenario;
A woman driving a car smashes into another car and in the event the other driver has been killed. The woman does not care about the car, herself, money, anything. At that moment she is filled with guilt and can only think of the other person. Now she did not dileberatly kill anyone but it is still a sin.
First punishment: The woman is filled with guilt.
Now the driver of the other car, let's say a male, was killed. Why was he killed? Maybe he was the one who got away with murder in his past lifetime. (Karma is also luck)
Second punishment: Karma fulfilled.
As I have stated, Judas is not a bad person, no one is a bad person. But every person is a good person. Do you know why I know this? Is there pain, shame, and/or ESPECIALLY discomfort in onself for helping another? Never. There is only satisfaction.
I will flip what is in the Bible as a specific teaching for you;
Let he who is without sin be the first to accuse a sinner of sinning.
So now, before anyone accuses anyone of "being bad" you must ask yourself, "Is my cause justified?"
Jokingly, I can see that for someone who wants World Peace he would say
"If one betrays the creator it is better that he ends his life and join the list of unborn persons."
haha But again, it is not up to you nor anyone else to decide - in the name of Jesus, THE Christ, it has already been decided.
There never was a commandment that said "Thou shal not betray Jesus". That is up to each person. If you want to know why people kill, why people hate, why people feel the way they do there is only one thing you need to do. Ask "WHY?". Why do people sin? Why is that most young people commit the most crimes and/or sins? Just ask Why? and you will figure it out.
You say betraying an ordinary human being itself is the highest sin. And I ask you, what might be the lowest sin? Will I not be judged so harshly for stealing than I would for murder, after it has been stated that they are equal? I will feel the same guilt from both.
I say, betraying yourself leads to sin. And I see the world today and I see people in sheep's clothing, each wearing a different mask. Surely if I make a promise to you to pay you back but never do I am not going to Hell. If I were to care so much about money might I create my own Hell, my own guilt for not paying you back.
Lack of faith in Jesus' words creates that chaos in one's life. If that woman who crashed her car and killed that man let that effect her for the rest of her life, might she learn a lesson, but if she has faith she would not feel that guilt.
And actually speaking on the topic of reincarnation, Edgar Cayce has pointed out that Jesus was the reincarnation of Job, and of Adam, and of many other people. It was the Christ, or, the Holy Spirit which came into Him to do good, which is why Jesus spoke in first person a lot, it was the Christ Spirit talking. So, he was and is just as human as you an me, and you too can recieve the Spirit of God. I felt that I have in my life already and I am 21. I have felt true happiness, true goodness, and I know the love of this earth is false.
I'd like to think I am almost a "realised soul", hopefully not falling short of this life time.
-Austin
From my perspective;
Judas does not belong to the innermost circle of God. It had been prophecized that a man (Judas) would betray the Messiah (Jesus). And just as Jesus was so was Judas - a human being.
You say "eternal fire" but have you seen this fire? Have you been there? That is up to each person to believe. Again, from my perspective, that teaching of Jesus that you should cut your own hand if it were to commit a sin is to illustrate in your own mind how much more painful the sin is than cutting your own hand. Where does sin lead? Guilt. The fact that Judas killed himself is ironic. He was a diciple of Jesus so should he have known that for his sin, which, infact, was a not a sin, all he would need to do is ask Jesus, the VERY man whom he betrayed, for forgiveness, the very thing Jesus had been preaching about from the beginning. As I stated, there was no sin commited by Judas but he was filled with guilt that he did betray such goodness, and only if he knew it to be good would he feel guilty of such.
I feel the "liquid fire" is the guilt and pain you put yourself through after commiting a "sin". It is the un-easyness of yourself, your guilty-concious. And as Jesus taught, only through Him, to explain to Him your sin, your guilt, your remorse, can you be freed of that guilt, that mental anguish and become closer to God - closer than you COULD become if you decided not to ask Him for forgiveness.
As you have shown,
"In Hinduism also, Manu Smruthi says ‘the sinner punished by the king in this world gets rid of his sin and goes to heaven.’ (Rajabhih Dhruta Dandastu …. Manu Smruthi)."
You have not put much thought into it, which may just be a good thing. One of the main concepts of Hinduism is Karma and that is exactly what this excerp is referring to.
No matter what good you do or what bad you do the same will be done unto you. So, if you were to kill someone you yourself just might be killed this lifetime or the next. And if you did good deeds for people your next lifetime will reflect that on, maybe, how happy you are or content with your life.
That excerp could be translated to "You will meet the Maker but will be punished for your own deeds before you do." The Yin and the Yang. See?
The court of law is not the law of God. Most reasons why one would go to court is for what Biblical term we know as sin. The court of law cannot forgive you of you sin, the court of law plays the role of Karma. Now remember that not all killers are found and prosecuted, but their time will come in their next lifetime.
A single crime, or sin, can have two and more punishments but by whom or to whom depends on the crime/sin.
A scenario;
A woman driving a car smashes into another car and in the event the other driver has been killed. The woman does not care about the car, herself, money, anything. At that moment she is filled with guilt and can only think of the other person. Now she did not dileberatly kill anyone but it is still a sin.
First punishment: The woman is filled with guilt.
Now the driver of the other car, let's say a male, was killed. Why was he killed? Maybe he was the one who got away with murder in his past lifetime. (Karma is also luck)
Second punishment: Karma fulfilled.
As I have stated, Judas is not a bad person, no one is a bad person. But every person is a good person. Do you know why I know this? Is there pain, shame, and/or ESPECIALLY discomfort in onself for helping another? Never. There is only satisfaction.
I will flip what is in the Bible as a specific teaching for you;
Let he who is without sin be the first to accuse a sinner of sinning.
So now, before anyone accuses anyone of "being bad" you must ask yourself, "Is my cause justified?"
Jokingly, I can see that for someone who wants World Peace he would say
"If one betrays the creator it is better that he ends his life and join the list of unborn persons."
haha But again, it is not up to you nor anyone else to decide - in the name of Jesus, THE Christ, it has already been decided.
There never was a commandment that said "Thou shal not betray Jesus". That is up to each person. If you want to know why people kill, why people hate, why people feel the way they do there is only one thing you need to do. Ask "WHY?". Why do people sin? Why is that most young people commit the most crimes and/or sins? Just ask Why? and you will figure it out.
You say betraying an ordinary human being itself is the highest sin. And I ask you, what might be the lowest sin? Will I not be judged so harshly for stealing than I would for murder, after it has been stated that they are equal? I will feel the same guilt from both.
I say, betraying yourself leads to sin. And I see the world today and I see people in sheep's clothing, each wearing a different mask. Surely if I make a promise to you to pay you back but never do I am not going to Hell. If I were to care so much about money might I create my own Hell, my own guilt for not paying you back.
Lack of faith in Jesus' words creates that chaos in one's life. If that woman who crashed her car and killed that man let that effect her for the rest of her life, might she learn a lesson, but if she has faith she would not feel that guilt.
And actually speaking on the topic of reincarnation, Edgar Cayce has pointed out that Jesus was the reincarnation of Job, and of Adam, and of many other people. It was the Christ, or, the Holy Spirit which came into Him to do good, which is why Jesus spoke in first person a lot, it was the Christ Spirit talking. So, he was and is just as human as you an me, and you too can recieve the Spirit of God. I felt that I have in my life already and I am 21. I have felt true happiness, true goodness, and I know the love of this earth is false.
I'd like to think I am almost a "realised soul", hopefully not falling short of this life time.
-Austin
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