Are you scared of Reincarnating again?

Do u believe in rebirth or reincarnation? Do u believe in Past Life Experience? Discuss and Know more about it here

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spiritalk
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Post by spiritalk » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:35 pm

When we reach the higher learning we will look back and realize how much is limited while in the physical/material energies.  While here it is important to do the best you can to reach spiritual awakening.  With this you will slowly but surely awaken to the energies that seem hidden, but are merely buried deep for us to mine in our own way.
God bless, J

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Aegeus
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Post by Aegeus » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:24 am

I can understand you have negative associations with physical/material realities, but what you fail to acknowledge is that these limitations are only a product our distance separation and of the barriers that have been erected between this plane and source and is not endemic of physical reality it's self. We only experience limitation because we lack connection with source/prime creator, or what ever you wanna call it and lack connection with our higher selves, which is what you are yearning for and thinking that leaving this reality means going to that one.

Also what perhaps has not been well expressed is that it is possible to exist in a physical reality while remaining connected with parts of your self which are beyond physical and can not be contained in a physical vessel. Part of the disconnection that humans have experienced is a disconnection from our spiritual dna, which entails having lack awareness of out energy/astral bodies, and the parts of our selves which can only be expressed in higher realms. As we activate our dormant dna which has been shut down for the sake of making us more controllable, we connected with vast and powerful parts of our selves which are expressed in non physical realms. This happens as part of us stays grounded in the physical, and this grounding in the lower realms actually helps us deal with the high winds that are a part of higher realms.
"Permacultre is revolution disguised  as gardening"

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Post by spiritalk » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:28 pm

I have NO problem whatsoever with physical/material energies - like you I live in and function in their power and strength.  I am a physical being just as any other earth dweller.  

The first and foremost part of us that is here to learn is the spirit.  That is a focus that is more important than all the accumulated physical/material energies.  Physical/material energies and all they produce are for the earth plane and temporary.  Energies of the spirit are eternally based.  They produce the light and love of continued existence.

DNA is a substance of the physical and is measured and used as such.  Again a temporary (while in this life) measurement that will die with the physical existence.  

I, perhaps more than you, acknowledge our physical self because it is what creates the persona that is the soul that exists within.  While reincarnationists such as yourself see no persona to respect and continue to exist.  A new soul is evidenced in each and every physical creation - soul = breath of life.
God bless, J

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Post by Aegeus » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:28 am

"While reincarnationists such as yourself see no persona to respect and continue to exist"

What do you mean by this?

Science only looks in the physical, so any scientific knowledge we have is limited to the physical. There could could much layering between the physical and non physical that science does not verify and this could include spiritual aspects of dna which are both inactive and unnoticed.

If you think that physical self creates your persona then perhaps you wish not to take responsibility for you physical self.

The physical is made up light energy vibrating in such a way that it appears physical. "from the light came the spirit and from the spirit came all things."

I think the greeks have this philosophy about how the soul animates the physical form.  Can't remember exactly but I read something real poetic about it.

Now one other thing to consider is that a soul can be incredibly vast and can also be too intense to be contained in one human body. So there might be different aspects of a soul in a particular incarnation. Some speak of when a soul is too intense to express it's self in one form it may split and life more then one life at a time.

Now this last idea I don't know about, but I've herd it used to argue that it is not perfect to say so and so was ______ because its not the exact parts of the soul that lived that life which are here now and so on.

You must have a different definition of soul then I do because you keep saying the soul ends while saying spirit is forever. To me soul is the individualization of spirit, and spirit is all encompassing.
"Permacultre is revolution disguised  as gardening"

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Post by spiritalk » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:34 pm

This was so mishmashed with contradictory information I could not decifer what you are trying to say.  One minute it is physical/material, the next it isn't (persona).  What is your point?
God bless, J

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Post by Aegeus » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:43 am

I guess tried covered too many concepts in one go.

Again what is your definition of a soul, and how is this different from your definition of a spirit? If you think a soul can begin and end while a spirit lives forever then you have a different definition from me meaning we have a language barrier.


Again
What do you mean by this?  - "While reincarnationists such as yourself see no persona to respect and continue to exist"


Perhaps a soul could have spiritual dna, or a vibratory signature which defines it, and this is the same one life to the next, only people living mostly on a material level would not necessarily express their soul identity.

And again if you like to think your physical self creates your personality, then maybe you find comfort in a cause and effect explanation of how you are. Meaning you like to think you are a product of you genes and your environment and to not take responsibility for the role the eternal part of your self plays in who you are because that means that you can not blame everything on your environment or body cause you may have had the same or similar problems in a past life in which you had a different environment and a different body.

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Post by ConfusedMind » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:50 am

I would definitely like a reincarnation.*

* Conditions Applied.
I'm weird

spiritalk
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Post by spiritalk » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:18 pm

A:  You are making such wild accusations it is hard to keep up.  Please NEVER assume what someone else is thinking, believing or even discussing without a firm grasp of it.  

Spirit and Soul are two distinct things.  Spirit is eternal (as far as we know) there is a philosophy that states even our spirit will eventually no longer be needed and melt into the collective energies of God.

Soul on the other hand is the individualized person.  It is formed through lessons on the body, mind, spirit.  It is metaphorically like a seed planted within each and every human being (soul by definition = breath).  That seed is nurtured by our experiences and grows in spirituality, watered by our tears, and fertilized by the successes and failures we encounter and learn by.  Eventually we we blossom as the individualized soul.

Reincarnation is an idea that is enjoying some measure of distribution at present.  A firm grasp on the ideas of spirit and soul may just change that direction?  I wonder sometimes why a reincarnationist even thinks in terms of an afterlife - if they are so busy returning like a revolving door?  And who are mediums communicating with in the afterlife if all souls are returning to earth?
God bless, J

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Post by Aegeus » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:23 am

Not all souls return to earth. There are plenty of other places. How ever many return here. Many go somewhere else between incarnations here.

So are you saying the individualized aspect of self ends when the physical body succumbs to mortalility? But the spirit which experiences this individuality lives on?

I guess this is in live with the idea that in past existences we could have been and inhabited forms which are alien to us now, but it fully discounts the idea that our past existences could have any effect or impact on what we are now, on our perceptions, or on what we are. This implies that what we do now and what we are has no impact on our future existences, which is counter to
the concept of karma and discounts any notion of progress.

I am trying to stimulate you to explain your view point better so I am no left to my presumptions, and critique your view for the sack of testing and strengthening your resolve.
"Permacultre is revolution disguised  as gardening"

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Post by spiritalk » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:53 pm

It is reincarnation that discounts the continued existence of the human soul.  If each body is given a soul what is the purpose of the lessons of the individualized soul?  If it must return, how is the new soul ever to get a chance to have a life?

The continuation of the soul is in spirit body which has realms of learning and growing for eternity.  Believe me, it is not boring or lost on the individualized soul.
God bless, J

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Post by Aegeus » Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:06 am

I don't know if I am lacking clarity on your belief or if you beliefs are inconsistent and lack clarity, but this debate is certainly going around in circles.

- "It is reincarnation that discounts the continued existence of the human soul."

Can you explain how this is so. I can't imagine how you could extrapolate such a notion from reincarnation.

- "If each body is given a soul what is the purpose of the lessons of the individualized soul?"

This question is irrelevant. What is the purpose of any lessons, ever, and how is it any different for individualized souls inhabiting bodies.

There are plenty of other planets for new souls to incarnate on. Not all souls return here and some new ones enter. I imagine this is very hard place for a soul to first experience physical form. And what makes you think new souls are being created all the time, and why would this be happenings any slower then new planets were being created?

- "The continuation of the soul is in spirit body which has realms of learning and growing for eternity.  Believe me, it is not boring or lost on the individualized soul."

So now your saying the soul does live on. But by definition of disbelief in reincarnation you think this is the only physical incarnation ever for each soul that ever incarnates.

How is then that so many who incarnate supposedly for the first time seem to start off with a firm grasp of physical reality, while others seem as if they are all to familiar with a non physical existence which requires a lot less effort? And don't give me genetics as an explanation cause these differences can occur between siblings. You can discount environment to because people can grow up in the same environment and still have these differences.

I am very curious to know why you choose to believe/think that this is the only time you ever have or will live here, and have or will inhabit a physical form.
"Permacultre is revolution disguised  as gardening"

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Post by spiritalk » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:43 pm

Reincarnationists generally believe they must return time and again to the earth world to learn.  They tend to limit their ability to progress (and all things are about progression) to a return to the earth.  Now you are expanding into other worlds.  That is not a part of the reincarnation in general use.

One body, one soul.  That is the concept lacking in reincarnation.  Each and every physical body receives a soul.  Why allow one soul to have more than one?  Why put a used soul in a new body?  By mathematics this just doesn't make sense.

Progression means that the soul that finishes its life on the earth plane has a continuity into the afterlife.  There are more lessons that do not include a return to the earth plane.  I do not think in terms of other planets but that is interesting to contemplate too.
God bless, J

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Post by Aegeus » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:19 pm

Well you are generalizing reincarnation. In essence all reincarnation means is when, this body succumbs mortality the immortal soul is able to inhabit a new body. Could be on this planter, could be on another planet. Could be a human form, could be any number of other forms.

Whats to stop a soul from progressing even if it returns to a new body. Many things learned from past lives can be carried over to a new life.

So when your physical vessel dies, you go in the used bin, and a fresh soul is taken off the shelf for any new bodies?

There are far to many unknowns and variables for any mathematician to consider this subject. I can't even imagine how you could bring math into this.

You honestly think we only have one shot at physical existence and that's all the chance we get to learn what there is to learn from physical existence. I could compare that to saying you only get one day to explore a great library and then you must progress to the next library. Tough luck if you didn't get to finish any books.

You also have ignored many of my points in favor of reincarnation.

So it seems you choose to believe this idea of moving on, as it fits with a theory that new souls are always coming to experience the earth plane. But I think also because it means you can go back to a non physical existence which requires a lot less effort and leave all the shit of the earth plane for good.

Well you can do that anyway.

Also if it is new souls coming to inhabit the planet all the time, and the old ones always leaving, then why do these new souls immediately become incredibly deeply ingrained in patterns and problems which are thousands of year old?

Could not the souls who lived out these patterns and problems in the past carry their vibration so deep that it emanates through their soul, and this vibrates reality into the expression of the same or similar and maintains it so such a long time? Meaning the fact the some of the same souls have been here for a long time, contributes to the fact that the core fundamental issues that society faces have been the same since Rome, and even since Atlantis.

Perhaps the failure of these souls to acknowledge and learn form their past and take responsibility for it is the cause of the repetition of these same issues.

You would think if it was new souls coming in all the time and no old ones lingering, that things would change a lot quicker and be a lot more difference from century to century. Sure technology has changed a lot, but socially and as societies the issues are the same.
"Permacultre is revolution disguised  as gardening"

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Post by spiritalk » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:24 pm

Well you are generalizing reincarnation. In essence all reincarnation means is when, this body succumbs mortality the immortal soul is able to inhabit a new body. Could be on this planter, could be on another planet. Could be a human form, could be any number of other forms.


What happens to the soul that God implanted?  (Soul = breath) That means there is a new soul for every new body.  You are saying that an existing soul must remove what God intended as new soul = new body.
God bless, J

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Post by spiritalk » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:28 pm

You honestly think we only have one shot at physical existence and that's all the chance we get to learn what there is to learn from physical existence. I could compare that to saying you only get one day to explore a great library and then you must progress to the next library. Tough luck if you didn't get to finish any books.

You also have ignored many of my points in favor of reincarnation.


Yes, one physical existence.  That is because it is temporary and only a vehicle for the spirit within.  The spirit is eternal and continues along with the individualized soul that used that physical existence.  

Does all growth end?  You seem to think so.  Growth can and is gained in the spirit realms.  The spirit, the eternal existence, is growing and being more in spirituality.  That is the lessons purpose after all.  

I did not ignore anything.  I questioned it.  Perhaps the books you didn't get to read on your journey are the ones you need to find for other answers to big questions?  

BTW the library analogy is excellent - I have a  personal one in spirit realms awaiting my further reading.  How do I know?  Why I have communication with spirit of course.
God bless, J

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