Lengthy question

Do u believe in rebirth or reincarnation? Do u believe in Past Life Experience? Discuss and Know more about it here

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curiosity
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Lengthy question

Post by curiosity » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:41 pm

Hi everyone,

I have been reading for a while about spiritual life and development, done some meditation but altogether have a rather limited perspective on these things, and very little experiences of them.

Here’s a question that I have avidly searched for on the internet but haven’t found anything about.

It seems many talk of the spiritual journey we all take and its “rules” (for lack of a better word). It appears we live to experience in order to grow, and that this path must take some tenuous turns sometimes. Many say that some lessons on that path cannot sink in without a decent level of pain and suffering.

That is all well but my question is the following:

While things work this way and are not to be questioned, does a particular spirit necessarily need to be on that path?

I mean, someone who loves Karate or really desires to learn a foreign language will sometimes need to spend hours of discomfort practicing his/her katas or sometimes be frustrated with some grammatical lessons or tough vocabulary lists, these people who don’t care for these hobbies can just save themselves the trouble and stop, or even never start.

What of the spiritual journey? Can one just “stop” if not interested in the outcome? The laws one keep reading about (things like karma, reincarnation, this learning curve) are perfectly sensible if you take the perspective of the spirit that longs for spiritual development. But can a person/spirit not be interested in that particular path and refuse to undertake the efforts have to put in it? Just the way I don’t care for Karate and wouldn’t bother practicing?

Does our free will extend this far? And, in theory, what could a spirit do to “drop out” of that particular path?

I have been very curious about this and was wondering why this question is almost never asked, let alone answered. Can a spirit be un-interested in spiritual development?
And if so, what would be the course of action for “dropping out”? I have been wondering and came to the (so far rather flimsy) conclusion that to “quit”, a particular spirit would have to surrender its own existence, simply stop “being” for all intents and purposes.

Have you ever heard about this? Do you think one’s free will extends that far? How would one go about this?

I’m particularly interested in opinions, resources on the subjects and theories.

Thanks!

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Cascade of Light
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Post by Cascade of Light » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:38 am

Why do you think that everyone is on a spiritual journey anyway? Many don't seem to be. They have already used their free will to stop as you put it :)
A cascade of light shone down on me, then the angels spoke, and set me free,
Cas x

Eduic
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Hi

Post by Eduic » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:22 am

We are all at different stages of learning in each life, if a person doesn't want to learn the lessons they have chosen to learn prior to incarnating then they will have to learn them in subsequent lives. There are souls who don't want to progress and while they don't 'drop out' they are just left to their own devices until they decide that they are ready to continue to progress and learn, for that to happen one must incarnate to experience a world like Earth with both physical and mental limitations, we work through our own obstacles to enlightenment at our own pace, reincarnating with our soul groups to challenge and learn from each other and progress together. However, some souls progress through their lessons faster than others, but eventually we will be equal and the goal is to gain knowledge and understanding, to be closer to God.

curiosity
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Post by curiosity » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:08 am

Well Eduic, your answer is a good summary of a lot of what's written online. And this is exactly my point :

One finds many people arguing what you just argued, but almost nothing that takes a step back and asks :

-what if one is no longer interested in learning and growing?
-what if one finds that the price of these lessons is too heavy to pay?
-what is one finds that the ultimate goal is not worth it?

Would that one spirit still be forced into incarnation after incarnation, or "time out" until it would choose to start that process again?

Is existence mandatory? Could a spirit just decide, of its own free will, that the process is just not worth it, and decide to stop existing? Or does our free will end before that point?

The idea of spiritual growth and reincarnation is well debated and makes a lot of sense, from a limited perspective. If you take a step back and look from a broader angle, you start finding quite a few holes in the whole idea.

This is one of them and, in spite of years looking, I've not found much on this concept.

Any insight is welcome.
Why do you think that everyone is on a spiritual journey anyway? Many don't seem to be. They have already used their free will to stop as you put it
Yes, but what if one is not interested in snowboarding/partying/travelling either? These people have stopped but they are doing something else. I'm talking about the possibility of stopping everything.

Eduic
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Post by Eduic » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:38 am

In human form, you may decide you're not interested, but the fact that you're currently alive and incarnate on Earth is proof that your soul is interested in progressing, because to incarnate on Earth, a physical and mental world, one must desire to learn and experience physical and mental limitation in order to understand and accept their lessons in life. We all have certain traits that are profound and we navigate this world with our strengths and weaknesses that we have chosen prior to our birth, together with the other souls that are reborn in our lives in order to experience and learn from each other.

Going back to your question, on a soul level you can choose not to progress and learn, the problem with this is the lessons your soul would have already learnt may become stagnant and those lessons may need to be re-learnt, from that perspective there is further motivation to continue on with your learning. Whilst you may feel overwhelmed by your life experiences and that they are a heavy price to pay, know that your soul choose these experiences for itself prior to this incarnation and didn't think they were too heavy a price to pay, because the reward of gaining the knowledge and experience far outweighs the obstacles that are encountered.

Well the ultimate goal is the progression toward the all knowing being God, the point where living in the physical is no longer a requirement for your advancement, being in a position to help and assist others who are not yet ready to cease their incarnations in planning out their future lives that may provide lessons that are unique to their souls personal growth. The universe operates with complete choice for the soul, no one is forced to do anything, however, in order to progress one must incarnate into worlds with varying degrees of difficulty being either mental or physical worlds or both such as Earth, one of the more challenging worlds. Information is provided, but participation for each individual soul is optional, free will can be exercised not to participate and thus not to exist in incarnate form, however, you're already a soul and immortal who cannot cease to exist as a soul.

curiosity
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Post by curiosity » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:59 am

What first arose my interest in this subject is an article I read a long time ago from a well-known psychic that one can find here:

http://www.erinpavlina.com/blog/2006/03 ... ter-death/

Since then I have found some sources stating that this could be achieved, some saying out of free will but only after a long growth time and after much widsom gained. Other books and articles said, on the contrary, stated that souls would end up "unravelled" so to speak, meaning not "destroyed" but the energy of them dissolving instead of keeping its unity, after the soul fails times and again to experience these lessons, and becomes bitter are unwilling to keep trying.

The source above is the only one stating that it's possible so easily.

And many, like yourself, believe it's impossible for a soul to dissipate.

So I don't know who's right and who's wrong, and information is scarce.

Eduic
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Post by Eduic » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:16 am

If the soul is found to be having trouble in progressing or unwilling to progress or is doing horrific things whilst incarnate on a particular world, the soul will undergo energy rehabilitation in the spirit world, in order to correct any misaligned energies in order for that soul to continue with its progression. The soul does not dissipate or cease to exist, I suggest reading Michael Newton; Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls, these books will provide you with the insight regarding these matters :).

Eduic
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Post by Eduic » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:26 am

I read the article you posted; whilst it was interesting, it is difficult to believe that humans that do not believe or unaware of the afterlife dissipate as souls without being given a choice, the dialogue is a lucid dream a person experienced, whilst the work of people like Michael Newton and Brian Weiss is based on thousands of cases where people have been regressed into the area of between lives (the spirit world) and have provided consistent accounts on their experiences whilst there.

curiosity
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Post by curiosity » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:37 am

Another source, a book, states that some souls that have a recurring habit of, life after life, ending their own lives before their natural time of death, sometimes "become nothing". This is based on after-life communications. However, it's 2 lines in the whole book and contradicts other spirits' claims. The authors acknowledge that.

Still, the inevitability of our situation sounds a little nightmarish, no matter how you put it, and it would be nice to know we at least have the option, even when feeling good. You know, "just in case". This inescapable cycle sounds cruel, not loving.

Eduic
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Post by Eduic » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:01 am

It is very loving in the spirit world, that is the point, our perspective of understanding changes as souls when we are exposed to negativity in a world like Earth and how we deal and learn from it. Souls who end their incarnations prematurely are giving up on the lessons they came here to learn, their soul wants to progress, however, whilst in physical form they want out. In such circumstances, those lessons must be learnt in subsequent lives together with the lesson in steering clear of suicide.

It may sound cruel to our limited human minds however, our soul is more intelligent then our human mind, we only take a percentage of our soul energy into each incarnation depending on the difficulty of the life we planned, we never take 100% as our human body could not handle that much soul energy. Generally a soul would take around 50%, however, an advanced soul may only need 25% of its energy, also it is not unheard of  in taking up to 90% of the souls energy if a difficult life is ahead. The portion of the soul left over that is not brought over into an incarnation is in the spirit world learning with the other members of its soul group.

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Post by spiritalk » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:26 pm

Eduic wrote:I read the article you posted; whilst it was interesting, it is difficult to believe that humans that do not believe or unaware of the afterlife dissipate as souls without being given a choice, the dialogue is a lucid dream a person experienced, whilst the work of people like Michael Newton and Brian Weiss is based on thousands of cases where people have been regressed into the area of between lives (the spirit world) and have provided consistent accounts on their experiences whilst there.
I have to ask:  Are you suggesting that the afterlife Is merely a place for preparation for return to earth?  

The problem with that may be what is nervana or the ultimate destination?
Another might be in the suggesting the earth as the only place to learn and grow.
God bless, J

Eduic
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Post by Eduic » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:54 pm

The spirit world is vast beyond our comprehension, I am definitely not suggesting that it is a place just for the purposes of returning to Earth. Earth is one of many schools or playgrounds of learning albeit a more difficult one as it is both a mental and a physical world, there are other worlds in which souls learn and progress which can be just mental or just physical. You will find a more detailed response to your questions if you read Michael Newton's 2 books; Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls :)

curiosity
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Post by curiosity » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:29 am

gotta be an interesting read. You refer to it a lot. Who's the author?

It's confusing for these people with no specific psychic abilities (like myself) or no tangible connection to the other world, because we are left with only what others write on the subject to work on.

In all rationality though, this "model" that you speak of, of learning schools and experience... well, something doesn't feel right when reading about it, like it's an incomplete explanation that leaves too many questions unanswered.

I believe the one I raise is a valid one, yet most of what you read on the subject or get when asking this question is the same as what you said. "can a spirit disappear?" "no it can't. You are on a path to development". "do you have to be on this path?" "yes" "why?" "cause it's the rule" "why" "just cause" is pretty much what one gets :D

Eduic
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Post by Eduic » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:28 am

The author is Michael Newton, who is a clinical hypnotherapist and his books are based on thousands of case studies and research. We all seek the truth and all knowledge, however, if we are not ready in our development then that knowledge will not be revealed to us until we are ready. Only the all knowing (God) has the complete explanation and even if a soul in a human body was given all the information and the full explanation, it would not be able to comprehend it or be ready to receive it.

Choice is the key in our existence, you don't have to participate in your development as a soul, but the motivating factor of your existing progress becoming stagnant is the driving force to continue in your learning & development. There is no rule but there are paths and choices to be made and one makes those choices based on what one holds dear and a clear goal in mind, the thirst for knowledge being one such goal. :)

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