DEMONIAC SPIRITS-ARE THEY REAL?

Doe · Post by **Doe** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:40 am

Nothing to forgive, Jynxx!  You make a lot of intelligent points.  I especially agree with much of the paragraph you began by saying that you'd digressed.  My (limited, and quite possibly not accurate) understanding is that "ghosts" (as opposed to spirits) are something along the lines of "imprints of emotional trauma."  What they say may be very sad, and at some times really frightening, but they (the spirits of the people themselves) aren't really "there", or aware.  My guides try to teach me to know the difference between those that can be helped, and those for whom--as much as I'd like to help them--can't be helped, because of that lack of awareness.

And there certainly seem to be "aware" spirits with "nothing better to do", or an inability to escape from certain patterns or express their needs.  I also agree with, "Then there's a case to be made that something that appears 'evil', 'malign', or 'dangerous' may just appear that way through no fault of it's own."  Again, I think it's dangerous (and perhaps cruel) to try to categorize spirits/entities and act on that categorization without really being able to know--just as it is with the living.  Not that there aren't a few vicious ones out there...

I used to spend a LOT of time looking into the mirror in the dark when I first started seeing spirits (I still do it sometimes(.  Whoa--some of the things I saw!  But it never really frightened me.

Thanks for your insights!

Doe

Doe · Post by **Doe** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:41 am

Nothing to forgive, Jynxx! You make a lot of intelligent points. I especially agree with much of the paragraph you began by saying that you'd digressed (I don't mean the part about digressing!). My (limited, and quite possibly not accurate) understanding is that "ghosts" (as opposed to spirits) are something along the lines of "imprints of emotional trauma." What they say may be very sad, and at some times really frightening, but they (the spirits of the people themselves) aren't really "there", or aware. My guides try to teach me to know the difference between those that can be helped, and those for whom--as much as I'd like to help them--can't be helped, because of that lack of awareness.

And there certainly seem to be "aware" spirits with "nothing better to do", or an inability to escape from certain patterns or express their needs. I also agree with, "Then there's a case to be made that something that appears 'evil', 'malign', or 'dangerous' may just appear that way through no fault of it's own." Again, I think it's dangerous (and perhaps cruel) to try to categorize spirits/entities and act on that categorization without really being able to know--just as it is with the living. Not that there aren't a few vicious ones out there...

I used to spend a LOT of time looking into the mirror in the dark when I first started seeing spirits (I still do it sometimes). Whoa--some of the things I saw! But it never really frightened me, or seemed to have any ill effect.

Thanks for your insights!

Doe

Jynxx · Post by **Jynxx** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:02 am

Doe wrote:Nothing to forgive, Jynxx! You make a lot of intelligent points. I especially agree with much of the paragraph you began by saying that you'd digressed (I don't mean the part about digressing!). My (limited, and quite possibly not accurate) understanding is that "ghosts" (as opposed to spirits) are something along the lines of "imprints of emotional trauma." What they say may be very sad, and at some times really frightening, but they (the spirits of the people themselves) aren't really "there", or aware. My guides try to teach me to know the difference between those that can be helped, and those for whom--as much as I'd like to help them--can't be helped, because of that lack of awareness.

And there certainly seem to be "aware" spirits with "nothing better to do", or an inability to escape from certain patterns or express their needs. I also agree with, "Then there's a case to be made that something that appears 'evil', 'malign', or 'dangerous' may just appear that way through no fault of it's own." Again, I think it's dangerous (and perhaps cruel) to try to categorize spirits/entities and act on that categorization without really being able to know--just as it is with the living. Not that there aren't a few vicious ones out there...

I used to spend a LOT of time looking into the mirror in the dark when I first started seeing spirits (I still do it sometimes). Whoa--some of the things I saw! But it never really frightened me, or seemed to have any ill effect.

Thank you for your kind words, Doe.  :)

I believe that much of the phenomena we come across is indeed just an imprint of some sort. However, I've run into enough things first and second hand to be as certain as a person can be that there ARE entities that are 'infused' with enough energy to have a will of their own. After a mishap with trying to 'search' a mirror after catching a strange glimpse from the corner of my I, my boyfriend at the time found me shaking on the bed afterwards, with scratches down my back. While I was asleep. And the scratches weren't there before. Another case found me unable to breath, feeling 'pinned' to the bed and choked. He woke up another morning with scars scratched across his back. Healed, deep, wide scars that were'nt there the night before, and have since quickly gone away. And then the standard stuff being thrown, lights bursting, water suddenly running, etc. TV antennas being crossed (THAT was actually kind of amusing after I got over the shock and confusion of it xD)

I have a tendancy to have interesting luck with living spaces. Our old place was 30 kinds of nasty, thank God/dess we got out of there. Then again, I'm a draw. You consider me a battery for such things, I suppose.

I'm definitely not saying that it's an all around nono with the mirrors thing. But experence has shown me that sometimes, you don't WANT to see what you caught a glimpse of in the mirror. Then again, that could have been just because of where we were living at the time. Scrying in itself is great, if done properly and with neccessary precautions, depnding on the type of scrying. But I definitely try to stick to the 'if I can see it, it just mght see me as well' rule. Generally leads me to be at least a LITTLE more cautious. =P

Unfortunately, we can't help everyone/thing. And some things just need to be gotten rid of. >_<; I remember at an old two family house my mother and I had a bottom floor apartment in.. (The place where tv antennas would become crossed, everytime I fixed them, the plugs would come out of the wall, lipstick would fly by my ears, and speakers for the comp. would turn on and off (not just the wiring.. the button would go in or out. o_o) Eventually we (well, I- my mother is a 'Wiccan because it's cool, and that makes me the best wiccan ever. I highly doubt she has any particular ability to notice such things, because of her unwillingness to see and accept them) would catch glimpses of a little boy, hiding behand the stairs to the cellar, or beside the front porch. I have a feeling it was a lonely kid who played tricks. Never did figure out who he was or where he came from, before we moved. 'He' seemed of the sort that was aware, and deliberately did things to catch my attention (and my mom's - especially when she forced herself to ignore it xD), but not aware enough to directly communicate. Poor kid.

All and all, who really knows for sure. Some things we can prove, some we can't, some we may never. It's still nice to theorize, especially when you've come in contact with it as much as I (sometimes unfortunately) have.

Here I go digressing again! xD I love to chat and learn and debate, but I tend to go here and there with it. =P Thank you again for your kind words.  :smt005

Doe · Post by **Doe** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:26 pm

My "bodyguard" must be working overtime, because, in spite of all the threats and anger against me from a few spirits (a lot less now than when I started), I've never had any serious physical occurences as a result--just a few jabs and pokes here and there, etc. Instilling (or TRYING to instill)fear with words has been their "weapon" of choice, but I was given a lot of guidance learning how to deal with that, too. For a few months, last year, I was actually (at the age of 46!) afraid to go to bed, or get up in the middle of the night without "company." Not any more. At this point things the living can do scare me a lot more than anything even the angriest spirit has up his or her sleeve--for the latter, at least I know now that there's a reason...something more behind it. It just makes more sense than the random acts of cruelty I see being committed by the living sometimes.

I guess my point in all that is that I do think it's important not to get so caught up in the "phenomena", and attempts at explanations and categorizations, that one misses the actual messages and meanings. I've come to believe that all of the spirits I meet--sweet or vicious--are there to teach me something, and that (to quote my friend LG, and you as well, Jynxx) things aren't always what they seem.

That's why I don't watch (except occasionally with disgusted fascination that quickly turns to boredom when I'm visiting a place with cable) those ghost-hunter/paranormal shows on TV. Not only do they show utter disrespect to the spirit world, but they also miss the point entirely, in my opinion!  If you miss the beauty in it, and the message that there's a lot more to things than meets the eye (at least the first two eyes  :smt003) if one is patient and willing to learn, what's the point?

Doe

Jynxx · Post by **Jynxx** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:24 am

I completely understand your points, but at the same time.. Well, I rather consistently catch myself watching Ghost Hunter style shows. I'm a big fan of TAPS. While a good many of them are hoax-ridden disappointments, I do enjoy the scientific aspect of it all. I don't lose my appreciation for the 'mystic' side of it all, but it's in my nature to research things.. I've always loved the idea of having a paranormal investigation group, that focuses not only on the scientific aspect of paranormal activity and the like, but the unfathomably wonderful side as well. I think it'd be a much needed balance. I have plent of capable videographer/photographer/etc friends that would enjoy doing it, but unfortunately, most of them have had enough horrifying experiences to know they don't want t risk running into a 'super-baddie', and what could happen to themselves or the rest of us. So, it doesn't seem very likely. xD

Jynxx · Post by **Jynxx** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:49 am

Doe wrote:My "b

Doe

By the way, I hope you don't mind my asking, but where in NJ are you from? I was raised there from age 7 up until just three years ago. Northern NJ. ^_^

Doe · Post by **Doe** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:08 am

I'm in northern NJ, too--just across the river from NYC (I don't want to give the name of the town, just because there's a picture of my son posted somewhere on the board).  But I love Florida, too.  My mother lives between St. Augustine and DAB, so I'm down there a lot, too.

Doe

Suleiman · Post by **Suleiman** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:05 pm

lighting strikes twice wrote:IS DEMONIAC SPIRITS REAL? DO THEY IMITATE LOVED ONE'S THAT HAVE PASSED? ARE WE PROTECTED IF WE OPEN OURSELVES UP TO THE SPIRIT WORLD? DID THEY ORIGINALLY HAVE A BODY OF FLESH? :smt005

First thing you must know. The Spirit of you loved one cannot be contacted period. If anyone makes claim they can, they are either phoney or they indeed contact something but definitely not the spirit of your loved one.

Most importantly ovoid people like that like a plague and never ever get yourrself involved with them.

Now to the topic of what is called as spirits. They are beings that exist in the realm of unseen, they can manifest itself either in their true form or some other forms.
The word demons actually is reference to a spirit that harms. Another word for spirits you might hear is called Jinn, the point being every culture has a word for it and it is reference to the same beings.

Now the practianary of "Magic!" would actually contact the spirit/demon who pretends to your loved one, it is usually a spirit who is familar with you loved one thus some are very convincing and may know things about you and your family.

ravenuriel · Post by **ravenuriel** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:29 am

Sule...

I have to strongly disagree..
you said.. that the practitioner of the magick.. would contact the spirit..
..
ok..
now if we are spirit beings only using the body as a vessel to experience this life.. then when they body dies.. the spirit moves on..
and the law of energy .. it is always in motion.. therefore it does not just stop being.. so neither do we.
therefore, the loved ones who have passed CAN be contacted..
simple science.

and as far as demons.. yes solomons books list them..
the different vibrations of the beings determines which level of the ether they are on.. different ppl say different things.. it depends on who you talk to about this subject..
and yes a demon can imitate your loved one to get your attention.

that is all I have to say for now.

Ravenuriel~

Suleiman · Post by **Suleiman** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:26 pm

ravenuriel wrote:Sule...

I have to strongly disagree..
you said.. that the practitioner of the magick.. would contact the spirit..
..
ok..
now if we are spirit beings only using the body as a vessel to experience this life.. then when they body dies.. the spirit moves on..
and the law of energy .. it is always in motion.. therefore it does not just stop being.. so neither do we.
therefore, the loved ones who have passed CAN be contacted..
simple science.

My assertion "not being able to contact the dead" has nothing got to do with the law of physics. You can say the law of physics and energy does not apply to the soul.

All I am saying the word is not set up "so you can contact the deceased" many people wan't to believe they are so they believe anything. Sometime the practionary is a phoney and when the real deal come to them, it is always a demon/spirit/jinn whatever you wan't to call them either appear in there form or comunicate with the medium.
The point being wheter you went to see a medium or it just happened either way it is never your dearly departed loved one.

There was another person who made a post about seeing apparition of Virgin Mary and Jesus, it is the same thing.

and as far as demons.. yes solomons books list them..
the different vibrations of the beings determines which level of the ether they are on.. different ppl say different things.. it depends on who you talk to about this subject..

Ravenuriel~

My intention was not to talk about solomon. I am not learnt in those books some attribute to solomon.
Yes there are spirits/demons/jinns/ that are different to each other. They have their races. Some are very strong, some are very fast, some can dive into the deepest recess of the water, some can change to certain shape.

and yes a demon can imitate your loved one to get your attention.

that is all I have to say for now.

I know what some people here believe but this is what I am trying to say that it is always a spirit that is imitating your loved one.

I know that is the last thing someone wants to hear who has or deciding to contact there loved one:
"you know the time you contacted your mother?, well it was actually a demon".
That is assuming the medium was not a phoney.

ravenuriel · Post by **ravenuriel** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:52 pm

ok
so your a rev .. priest... minister.. of some sort.( demonologist maybe)

all beings are SPIRIT...
IE the ability of the human being to astral travel .. with the spirit body..or soul...

but then again.. this isnt so .. by your thinking.
the laws of physics do apply to the energies and to the soul..

I have to say.. that you and I will just have to disagree and leave it at that..you do not see things from a metaphysical point of view along with the view that you have.

but I can speak from experience.. I have seen and spoken to both of my grand.das.. who have past on.( and I have dealt with nasty spirits and know the difference in vibration)
and my grandmother has come to visit in a dream a few times.
and in all things there is science.

people are drawn to things they do not understand .. maybe that is why you are here now... to learn.
but again .. you and I will just be at peace knowing that we will disagree on this subject.

Ravenuriel~

Suleiman · Post by **Suleiman** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:32 pm

ravenuriel wrote:ok
so your a rev .. priest... minister.. of some sort.( demonologist maybe)

all beings are SPIRIT...
IE the ability of the human being to astral travel .. with the spirit body..or soul...

but then again.. this isnt so .. by your thinking.
the laws of physics do apply to the energies and to the soul..

I have to say.. that you and I will just have to disagree and leave it at that..you do not see things from a metaphysical point of view along with the view that you have.

but I can speak from experience.. I have seen and spoken to both of my grand.das.. who have past on.( and I have dealt with nasty spirits and know the difference in vibration)
and my grandmother has come to visit in a dream a few times.
and in all things there is science.

people are drawn to things they do not understand .. maybe that is why you are here now... to learn.
but again .. you and I will just be at peace knowing that we will disagree on this subject.

Ravenuriel~

Rav I am not here to antagonise you. My intention was far from it rather I am just trying to offer whatever knowledge that I have come across to people here.
I do believes in Human Soul but I do believe it is secret a mystery to us. What I don't believe is that one can contact ones loved one or there spirit can come and contact you. That was all.

You have to understand that their are things that are real but at the same time their are so much superstition attached to it. I know it sounds strange as it is something that you would here from a skeptic.

I am not denying the paranormal, I am not denying the existing of the hUman souls, I am not even denying that someone saw what they saw. What I am saying it is not who they think it is.

Rav, I am not a preist, minister, not a christian,. I am just someone who read a bit.

I don't expect that everyone to read this and go away believing, I expect them to have an open mind as much as they expect of me and consider the possibility that what I am saying is true.
I do feel it is good that you are having this conversation with me. It is fruitfull one does not have to agree but go away with something.

You mentioned you dealt with nasty spirit,can you describe your expereience.?
Why do you think you have those encounters as such?

ravenuriel · Post by **ravenuriel** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:05 pm

Sule..

I deal with the spirit realm often..
I do house cleansings and blessings.. I have seen shadow ppl.. and I have seen honest spirits of loved ones who have past..
that is why I have such an issue with you sharing * what you have read*
Now if you had a degree in psychology and was coming from that arena.. yeah I could do this with you.
but to just read something and then have the mind set that you have the ability to educate someone.. no.
I have a Ph.D. in Religion, a Dr. in Metaphysics, and I am a Minister. This is where I am coming from no to mention.. life experience.

I do this, it is part of my life.. I help those with paranormal happenings
sometimes the happenings are self induced.. and I have to tell them that too. I am not one sided. I will tell them exactly what it is.. if it is paranormal or environmental
the truth is the truth and that is what they need.

That is all
Raven~

And Raven is my given Native American name.
its actually
Spirit Raven..
because I can bring information back from the void as the Raven did in NA lore.

Kahzmik · Post by **Kahzmik** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:22 am

Demonic Spirits-

First lets clarify what they are. There are three main levels to creation the mental or thought, the physical form and the spirit that makes it all possible. ALL THINGS COME FROM THE SOURCE!! This means good and evil as well.

Hu.mans tend to anthropomorphise ideas and physical forms giving them human or human-like qualities. Example: Lightning is flashing in the sky. Lightning is of the natural world and comes from the Creator. We as hu.mans create the characteristics of a Deity like the most unknown Fulgora who is the Roman Goddess of lightning. Fulgora has a mythology around her, human traits etc.

So she is a story. Is he then unreal? Absolutely not. There does exist the Spirit in lightning, just as it is in all things. The Spirit of lightning is known [in one form] as Fulgora just as Gaia is the spirit of the Earth. Gaia is The Goddess that provides everything we need to live here on Planet Earth. She is the anthropomorphised or human characteristic idea of Planet Earth.

Both of those examples are physical. So what about mental?

All thought has the potential of manifesting in the physical [Be Thoughtful Of What You Wish For] All thought comes from the Creator (Funny how nothing is original to the hu.man and yet we fight over copyrights and trade marks hehe) So an angel is the anthropomorphisation of good thought and deed. The embodiment of good in a human-like figure. Again there are huge myths that go along with the angels or angelic beings, even hierarchies and names and even a leader type which most hu.mans call God. Being that there is balance in the Universe, there is also evil, and the anthropomorphisation of evil is the demon, with the supreme evil attributed to some devil or Satan.

Are they then just stories and myths and not real? Absolutely not they are just as real as Gaia the Goddess. Remember Spirit is in all things.

They are however not as one is taught in an organized form of religion, and do not exist in the physical at least not in our experience [anything is possible]

If in Magickal work you set about invoking Demonic energies, you are infact invoking Demons.

There is not much reason to invoke them except when you are ready to 'conquer your inner demons'.

An Evil or Demonic Spirit is the spirit of an evil thoughtform anthropomorphised!  Understand that.

They could take a shape that resembles someone you know, but only if you have assignes some nast attribute to them, so a loved one is out of the question.  

We as humans have the potential to think up the most evil of the evil and the most good of the good and then act on it, bringing it into existence.

What do you want to create?

There do exist ghosts as well, the energies of a deceased hu.man. All humans have it in them to be good and evil [The Above Is As The Below And The Below As The Above To Perfect The Wonders Of The One] and if they were truly nasty and their energy still on this plane for some reason they may be confused as a demon, but that isn't so. They are a ghost-let them know they need to move on.

I hope this is of some value to you!

Suleiman · Post by **Suleiman** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:14 am

The problem I find especially when trying to approach this subject in english especially to an english speaking audience is that when you say certain words for example:

"Spirit" they automatically think "Ghost" (A spirit of loved one), and some can be bitter/bad and some can be good. Personally believe it is impossible for the living to see the spirit of a Human being or their soul after they died. Hence my stance that it is usually a demon in disguise.

When one say Demon they usually think something other than spirit. Red and Horn with a tail comes in mind. Who knows? maybe not far off!!. However the word Demons just means malevont spirit and hence it is another reason to believe they are not Human spirit roaming the earth.
Don't get me wrong I am not denying spirits exist nor that they are good aswell as bad amongst them I am just saying they are not spirit of someones deceased parents, sons and daugthers e.t.c.

The other word not so popular but I prefer is the word Jinn but here again people get the Image of Alladin and his Magic Lamp Image. Thanks to the film Industry.

I think part of the faults lies with the Movie and popular TV shows and some part lies with the person itself for trying to mix different cultural beliefs with each other.

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