From a fellow beginner - some good resources

[Rohiniranjan]

[quote="rajitha"]Rishirahulji,
   I enjoyed the snow too in my first year here. But, now, I don't like it because of the hassle of driving and cleaning

I will join the classes soon. I just want to start when I have enough time to catch up with all the old lessons.

My wife is going away for a week next week  :smt003
So, that would be an ideal time.[/quote]


Just the first year, Rajitha!
You are fickle, if I may take the liberty of saying so!

I miss the snowflake for it gave me a wonderful lesson once when the room was dark and it came into my life!

Always a bit too pragmatic and not into hairy-fairy realms of divination and jyotish, or newage culture myself, the *snowflake* led me to the realization that sometimes it is best to step back and marvel at what we *see* and it is okay then to move back in and resume our initial viewpoint! Our eyes and visions may be the same when we move back in to our original point of perspective but we SEE things through a mind that has grown since we changed our vantage point!

The MAYA of astrology/jyotish is complex. It is a world and reality in and by itself. And perhaps for a good and healthy reason. There is only one way to destroy Maya! Gautam Buddha's way! [Please don't ask me for reading material or URLs. CLIMB out of the armchair or COUCH where you are keeping your soul imprisoned!]

[rajitha]

Rohiniji,
  There is no doubt that I am fickle minded ( I get that everyday from my wife). It is an inherited trait from my father and also from my Gemini Ascendent.

Sorry, I did not understand what you meant by your post. Kind of went over my head.

But, I certainly want to ask you something( I know you have everyone's good at heart). When I ask something, you push us to try to investigate ourselves and when I try to do so by asking someone for a URL or a place to read about it, you taunt me about that too.

So, I am a little confused

[rajitha]

Rohiniji,
  This is my response to your earlier post, which I did not see earlier  :smt002

Your push is totally justified. But, in this modern world, it is very difficult to do so much research on jyotish.
For example, I am very interested in jyotish and reading about stuff. Believe me, that is what I do most of my spare time - reading about something. I am not a TV person.

But, there are everyday challenges - job, family, etc
So, what can such people do? Do we just give up our quest for jyotish ?
I feel everyone learns jyotish for different reasons. Some people do it for the sake of their own charts, etc. Some people want to learn more. There are really only a few who have it in them to become full-fledged jyotishis.

For me, whenever I read about jyotish and participate in discussions, it gives me a sense of satisfaction. I feel it is like a puzzle and there is something mystical about it which has attracted me to it. I am amazed that some rishis could know so much about planets and other things when there was no telescope.
I am amazed people from an ancient civilization possesed higher knowledge than us.

Sometimes, we have to just trust someone knowledgable than us if we don't have the time and means to go about gaining the knowledge from our own experience.

Finally, I really don't mean to offend you or disrespect you. Again, giving my views.

Thanks.

[I_seek_the _truth]

Well....

Rajitha, That's EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE FELT IN THE PAST TWO DAYS, but been afraid to say....!

[Nandini]

Namaskar Rohiniranjanji & Nandiniji !!

As in my previous post on this thread ,I once again am very sorry to interrupt.  Knowledge to me is welcome from any source and I do not limit it only to the gurus. And with all due resprect Nandiniji , if  i am not mistaken Rohiniji himself has stated many a times he too is still a student of this vast ocean. So believe me when a guru himself says he is still student, I myself am not under any presumption that i am the sole student. But incase i have casued this image for you I am deeply sorry for that.

Also all i wanted to say was that Lagnesh and the Atmakarak are different and shuld be analysed in that sense, but no means,  i meant to interrupt your session of learning.

sorry for any inconvinience caused by me.

warmly
Asro

Dear Asro,

I think I was unable to make myself clear. I agree with all that you have written about Lagnesh and Atmakarak!

I agree that Lagnesh and Atmakarak have different roles to play in a chart. What I was trying to say is that though we know that they are different, we do not know how to treat them differently in an analysis.

Actually I am very glad that you joined and pointed out how strongly your Atmakarak Mars expresses itself. It made me look into my database for such similar charateristics.

Please do not apologise for sharing your views. We are all students. We are here to learn from each other and that is how it should be. It is not 'my session of learning' or anything like that.

Your post was very helpful. Sorry if I gave you the notion that it was not. Let us continue to learn.

Regards,
Nandini.

[Rohiniranjan]

[quote="rajitha"]Rohiniji,
  This is my response to your earlier post, which I did not see earlier  :smt002

Your push is totally justified. But, in this modern world, it is very difficult to do so much research on jyotish.
For example, I am very interested in jyotish and reading about stuff. Believe me, that is what I do most of my spare time - reading about something. I am not a TV person.

But, there are everyday challenges - job, family, etc
So, what can such people do? Do we just give up our quest for jyotish ?
I feel everyone learns jyotish for different reasons. Some people do it for the sake of their own charts, etc. Some people want to learn more. There are really only a few who have it in them to become full-fledged jyotishis.

For me, whenever I read about jyotish and participate in discussions, it gives me a sense of satisfaction. I feel it is like a puzzle and there is something mystical about it which has attracted me to it. I am amazed that some rishis could know so much about planets and other things when there was no telescope.
I am amazed people from an ancient civilization possesed higher knowledge than us.

Sometimes, we have to just trust someone knowledgable than us if we don't have the time and means to go about gaining the knowledge from our own experience.

Finally, I really don't mean to offend you or disrespect you. Again, giving my views.

Thanks.[/quote]

I liked your answer You have passion! You will go far in jyotish. Just one caution if I may. Quality control is very poor in jyotish, from modern articles all the way to ancient classics or what we are led to believe are the authentic classics straight from the mouths and minds of Great Maharshis. People are not even clear or sure about Jaimini. Was he before or after Parashara? Neither of them refer to each other whereas they refer to many other Munis and Rishis! Then, BPHS has like half a dozen versions each different from one another.

Always keep a healthy scepticism when studying jyotish (which you have shown from time to time when you questioned Pankaj's interpretation) or questioned me. Very good!

By healthy scepticism I do not mean distrust but a state where the mind is open. But not SO open that the *brain* falls out

It is sad that jyotish has become slushy with religious thinking and a certain degree of fundamentalism. Perhaps that was all in God's plan!

Enough said...

[rajitha]

Rohiniji,
  What you said about the modern astrology is certainly true. I have realized it slowly over the couple of years.
When I started off, I used to read and believe everything.

Slowly, I started questioning and developing an understanding of my own.
Even then what I realized is that everyone has their own style and method of prediction.

I thought the best is to stick to one method and master it before I go out and try others.

[asro]

Namastey  Nandiniji

Lets go on with our learning BUS ......

(Sorry i just stepped down from the bus abruptly !! seems our inability of self expression  in words made either of us understand what neither of us meant!)



Last few days i tried to read articles about the Charkarkas  and their relation with the Lagnesh.  And this is wht i have understood (i shall be awating corrections and guidance from the Learned ones )

So continuing that child as lagesh, then i feel his mother plays the AK for him. she shall guide him, see whts good for him etc.. From my understanding , the AK is  to look after the soul matters, its his task to guide the native (might be lagnesh) to moksha. for analysis ,see what positon is Ak from Lagnesh, so if Lagnesh is 6th from the AK in rasi chart then the native may have opposition (more in physical sense) to what his soul wants to do. Or if Lagnesh is 6th postion frm AK in Navamsa then this oppostion might been seen in more dharma sense. i.e. this native will have opposition realted to  matters  of his soul. Coming to the analogy of mother and child , then for the above mentioned case it might like , the child wants to play with fire or etc.. but the mother knows it will harm it so she shall stop the child. Or say the child (now teen) wants to attend late nite parties n stuff but the mother feels that the child shuld focus on education . thus there is opposition present in both, inspite of the bond.


Take  another eg. say if the Putrakarka (PK) is conjuct with AK in rasi chart then at physical level the native may have some followers i.e. there will be  some people who like to help the native by virtue of following. And for the same  native if th PK is 6th from AK in Navamsa then, though he has followers, they might not feel one with him, might be opposing/doubting his actions etc (at dharma level).THey wont be his blind followers. But incase this PK is conjuct with AK in Navmamsa too then the may be his faith followers. This point can be understood well if you look into chart of spiritual leaders.

Thus i feel the Charakarakas (esp AK) are to deal with ones path to moksha (i guess its the aim of astrology too). While the self - Lagnesh stands for what a person is in this physical world.

Oh learned ones do guide  me to know if i am on right path ??  awaiting with marsian eagerness to learn from your experience and knowledge !!!


warmly
Asro

[Rohiniranjan]

[quote="rajitha"]Rohiniji,
  What you said about the modern astrology is certainly true. I have realized it slowly over the couple of years.
When I started off, I used to read and believe everything.

Slowly, I started questioning and developing an understanding of my own.
Even then what I realized is that everyone has their own style and method of prediction.

I thought the best is to stick to one method and master it before I go out and try others.[/quote]

It is true that if you have found a good teacher with a balanced and pragmatic approach towards astrology, you can potentially get back a lot of the "quality control" back into astrology. Sticking with one school or teacher, if good, gives a certain stability and focus and takes away a lot of uncertainty for sure.

Now, the question/consideration is: Is finding such a good teacher/school predestined or something that most can get if they try seriously and hard?

[Nandini]

Dear Asro,

Happy to hear from you! It is nice to read your posts.

I somehow feel that the Atmakarak is not really involved in what the nativity is doing. It is like an assignment has been given to a student with full freedom to do it in anyway he wants to. The assignment is from the Atmakarak to the Lagnesh. Which incidentally, is saying that the assignment is from one part,the non-changing part, of a person to the learning part of the person, the growing and hence changing part.

WHAT one has come to learn is perhaps to be seen from the Atmakarak. What MEANS the soul will employ to learn that, to accomplish the task given, is to be seen from the Lagnesh.

Theories are theories and will always be there. I wish we could check it out in some charts under the guidance of learned ones here. But discussing charts can be difficult, specially when the Atmakarak is involved, because it changes so much with the Ayanamsha.

If you or anyone else is interested we could consider the chart of Bill Gates. I get his Atmakarak to be Saturn and Lagnesh as Moon. If most get that, then there could be some constructive discussion.

Thanks.

Nandini.

[Rohiniranjan]

[quote="Nandini"]Dear Asro,

Happy to hear from you! It is nice to read your posts.

I somehow feel that the Atmakarak is not really involved in what the nativity is doing. It is like an assignment has been given to a student with full freedom to do it in anyway he wants to. The assignment is from the Atmakarak to the Lagnesh. Which incidentally, is saying that the assignment is from one part,the non-changing part, of a person to the learning part of the person, the growing and hence changing part.

WHAT one has come to learn is perhaps to be seen from the Atmakarak. What MEANS the soul will employ to learn that, to accomplish the task given, is to be seen from the Lagnesh.

Theories are theories and will always be there. I wish we could check it out in some charts under the guidance of learned ones here. But discussing charts can be difficult, specially when the Atmakarak is involved, because it changes so much with the Ayanamsha.

If you or anyone else is interested we could consider the chart of Bill Gates. I get his Atmakarak to be Saturn and Lagnesh as Moon. If most get that, then there could be some constructive discussion.

Thanks.

Nandini.[/quote]

Nandini and Asro,

Sounds like a very good project.Bravo!
Two things to suggest if both of you are willing to incorporate in your exploration:

In a random sample of say 20 charts (starters) how often does the Atmakaraka or Darakaraka actually show up close to the cusp of a rashi for ayanamsha to have the influence you stated? Random is the keyword as the statisticians remind us about!

Secondly, see if there is a difference when the atmakaraka (for starters, but other karkas too may be added if the pilot works out) is placed on a certain pada (always comparing with position of lagnesha on a pada or a house empty of padas!

Just a thought!

[[And if possible, please start a new thread for reporting your findings! I have noticed that when a thread goes beyond three or four pages, generally it becomes too much of a chore to have to go through all those pages and invariably in most threads running into 3+ pages, the subject has already drifted from the initial subject and posting

I hope you will not mind my suggestion and not consider it patronizing or too unctorial ;-}

Good luck ]]

[asro]

Hi one n all


Bravo Nandiniji !!! you did spk my heart ...  count me in for the chart study thing ... me being a just a newbie and a student in germany i dont have as such ne data base or charts to actually study (apart frm my frnds here..) .... so it shall be an excellent chance for me ...


and i guess we can start new thread for this  (as usual -- a good direction from Rohiniji)  



warmly

Asro