Courage/Bravery- 3rd or 4th House

unanth · Post by **unanth** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:24 am

dear members,

i would like to know your views on this topic.

as per vedic astrology 3rd house governs mind , mental strength, courage etc
4th house rules motherland, heart, vehicles etc

my doubt is where does courage originate from? mind or heart?

people always refer to heart as the source of courage, for instance
brave heart , chicken heart or weak heart and also we says in hindi Sher Dil or man with Khaleja

as opposed to above, mind is related to control, stability etc

i request you to throw more light on why then 3rd house is related to Courage?

thanks

RishiRahul · Post by **RishiRahul** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:57 am

unanth wrote:dear members,

i would like to know your views on this topic.

as per vedic astrology 3rd house governs mind , mental strength, courage etc
4th house rules motherland, heart, vehicles etc

my doubt is where does courage originate from? mind or heart?
RishiRahul= Mind and heart always acts together, in differing proportions, and results are obtained.

people always refer to heart as the source of courage, for instance
brave heart , chicken heart or weak heart and also we says in hindi Sher Dil or man with Khaleja
RishiRahul= I think so too that heart is the source of courage. Everything has its source.; but then it has to flow.

as opposed to above, mind is related to control, stability etc

i request you to throw more light on why then 3rd house is related to Courage?
RishiRahul=Third house stands for courage. Natural malefics like Rahu, Mars gives more brute courage there.

RishiRahul

thanks

unanth · Post by **unanth** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:44 am

hello rishirahul ji,

its pleasant to get your view on this
further i have more questions, please clarify

RishiRahul wrote:
unanth wrote:dear members,

i would like to know your views on this topic.

as per vedic astrology 3rd house governs mind , mental strength, courage etc
4th house rules motherland, heart, vehicles etc

my doubt is where does courage originate from? mind or heart?
RishiRahul= Mind and heart always acts together, in differing proportions, and results are obtained.

people always refer to heart as the source of courage, for instance
brave heart , chicken heart or weak heart and also we says in hindi Sher Dil or man with Khaleja
RishiRahul= I think so too that heart is the source of courage. Everything has its source.; but then it has to flow.
unanth- how is the flow affected? i mean if the 4th house is weak and the 3rd house is strong , is the native still more courageous? as u confirmed that 3rd house stands for courage. i am not taking A3 into consideration here
also what are the general results of aspects of malefic planets like Mars, Saturn on 3rd house

as opposed to above, mind is related to control, stability etc

i request you to throw more light on why then 3rd house is related to Courage?
RishiRahul=Third house stands for courage. Natural malefics like Rahu, Mars gives more brute courage there.
unanth-how does the courage get affected with the placement of Saturn or Ketu?

RishiRahul

thanks

RishiRahul · Post by **RishiRahul** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:53 am

unanth wrote:hello rishirahul ji,

its pleasant to get your view on this
further i have more questions, please clarify
RishiRahul wrote:
unanth wrote:dear members,

i would like to know your views on this topic.

as per vedic astrology 3rd house governs mind , mental strength, courage etc
4th house rules motherland, heart, vehicles etc

my doubt is where does courage originate from? mind or heart?
RishiRahul= Mind and heart always acts together, in differing proportions, and results are obtained.

people always refer to heart as the source of courage, for instance
brave heart , chicken heart or weak heart and also we says in hindi Sher Dil or man with Khaleja
RishiRahul= I think so too that heart is the source of courage. Everything has its source.; but then it has to flow.
unanth- how is the flow affected? i mean if the 4th house is weak and the 3rd house is strong , is the native still more courageous? as u confirmed that 3rd house stands for courage. i am not taking A3 into consideration here
also what are the general results of aspects of malefic planets like Mars, Saturn on 3rd house
RishiRahul=Let us take an extreme case of courage... the brashness of love/love heroic deeds tinged with rashness. Here that passion(venus mars) ruled by the heart overpowers the mind (moon).   Again both heart/mind performs here.
Then the other opposite is people who are timid. Here the mind is overactive/calculating the consequences of the youthful heart.

A 'deed' performed requires action. Action requires  courage. Courage requires the play between the mind and the heart in differing proportions. This difference denotes the type of courage or 'khaleja' in colloquial terms.
This is why I said that the heart is the source of courage. Then the filtering of the mind comes. The result is 'deed'.

Saturn conjunct moon, particularly, when linked to the house of courage leads to events happening in the course of life when a time comes that mind tries to filter the efforts from happening with confidence.
Sometimes...... the earlier life had some overconfident brash moves leading to dissapoint.
This can happen in navamsa too involving dharma(question of right/wrong).

as opposed to above, mind is related to control, stability etc

i request you to throw more light on why then 3rd house is related to Courage?
RishiRahul=Third house stands for courage. Natural malefics like Rahu, Mars gives more brute courage there.
unanth-how does the courage get affected with the placement of Saturn or Ketu?
RishiRahul=Now I know what you mean and would like to know!

Saturn in the vikrama vhava makes the native gain courage through inner realisations. This is particularly so if he has Saturn in the 3/6 from Al. The realisation becomes very internal, and long and hurtful if Saturn is afflicted. In your case it is afflicted in navamsa by moon, the karaka of mind.

Do understand that realisation is an internal ingredient for courage.... particularly when it is internal courage given by Ketu or Saturn.

RishiRahul

thanks

RishiRahul

unanth · Post by **unanth** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:25 pm

RishiRahul=Let us take an extreme case of courage... the brashness of love/love heroic deeds tinged with rashness. Here that passion(venus mars) ruled by the heart overpowers the mind (moon).   Again both heart/mind performs here.
Then the other opposite is people who are timid. Here the mind is overactive/calculating the consequences of the youthful heart.

A 'deed' performed requires action. Action requires  courage. Courage requires the play between the mind and the heart in differing proportions. This difference denotes the type of courage or 'khaleja' in colloquial terms.
This is why I said that the heart is the source of courage. Then the filtering of the mind comes. The result is 'deed'.

Saturn conjunct moon, particularly, when linked to the house of courage leads to events happening in the course of life when a time comes that mind tries to filter the efforts from happening with confidence.
Sometimes...... the earlier life had some overconfident brash moves leading to dissapoint.
This can happen in navamsa too involving dharma(question of right/wrong).

unanth -
i get what you say,  and the part regarding Saturn conjunct or linked to moon is very true . it gets filtered to the extent that sometimes it is nullified.
also i have a chart where Rahu is conjuct moon in the third house of cancer not aspected by any planet and retro Guru in the 4th house aspected by Shani in 2nd house and Mangal from 1st house

the native is courageous but in a satwik way and very true to heart and fight for the noble and right cause.
i am starting to get what you mentioned.

RishiRahul=Now I know what you mean and would like to know!

Saturn in the vikrama vhava makes the native gain courage through inner realisations. This is particularly so if he has Saturn in the 3/6 from Al. The realisation becomes very internal, and long and hurtful if Saturn is afflicted. In your case it is afflicted in navamsa by moon, the karaka of mind.

Do understand that realisation is an internal ingredient for courage.... particularly when it is internal courage given by Ketu or Saturn.

unanth

in my case saturn is 6th from AL and afflicted as you said
and it is the most hurtful. this courage i am talking about is not for proactive things but things which are reactive like mostly dealing with people, the reaction to this hurt is further hurt as there is no exhaust , i mean a tit for tat  or something like that. its only staying silent brooding and feeling and etc.
Yes Saturn is weak in cancer and in 6-8 relation with Moon, afflicted in navamsa by moon.
Also i always thought aspect of Mars(high in shadbala) from 12th was a major factor for this supression of expression of courage.
i didnt know moon played a vital role

RishiRahul · Post by **RishiRahul** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:38 pm

unanth wrote:RishiRahul=Let us take an extreme case of courage... the brashness of love/love heroic deeds tinged with rashness. Here that passion(venus mars) ruled by the heart overpowers the mind (moon). Again both heart/mind performs here.
Then the other opposite is people who are timid. Here the mind is overactive/calculating the consequences of the youthful heart.

A 'deed' performed requires action. Action requires courage. Courage requires the play between the mind and the heart in differing proportions. This difference denotes the type of courage or 'khaleja' in colloquial terms.
This is why I said that the heart is the source of courage. Then the filtering of the mind comes. The result is 'deed'.

Saturn conjunct moon, particularly, when linked to the house of courage leads to events happening in the course of life when a time comes that mind tries to filter the efforts from happening with confidence.
Sometimes...... the earlier life had some overconfident brash moves leading to dissapoint.
This can happen in navamsa too involving dharma(question of right/wrong).

unanth -
i get what you say, and the part regarding Saturn conjunct or linked to moon is very true . it gets filtered to the extent that sometimes it is nullified.
also i have a chart where Rahu is conjuct moon in the third house of cancer not aspected by any planet and retro Guru in the 4th house aspected by Shani in 2nd house and Mangal from 1st house

the native is courageous but in a satwik way and very true to heart and fight for the noble and right cause.
i am starting to get what you mentioned.

RishiRahul=Now I know what you mean and would like to know!

Saturn in the vikrama vhava makes the native gain courage through inner realisations. This is particularly so if he has Saturn in the 3/6 from Al. The realisation becomes very internal, and long and hurtful if Saturn is afflicted. In your case it is afflicted in navamsa by moon, the karaka of mind.

Do understand that realisation is an internal ingredient for courage.... particularly when it is internal courage given by Ketu or Saturn.

unanth

in my case saturn is 6th from AL and afflicted as you said
and it is the most hurtful. this courage i am talking about is not for proactive things but things which are reactive like mostly dealing with people, the reaction to this hurt is further hurt as there is no exhaust , i mean a tit for tat or something like that. its only staying silent brooding and feeling and etc.
Yes Saturn is weak in cancer and in 6-8 relation with Moon, afflicted in navamsa by moon.
Also i always thought aspect of Mars(high in shadbala) from 12th was a major factor for this supression of expression of courage.
i didnt know moon played a vital role

RishiRahul=True, the aspect of Mars to the third house and Saturn there leads to aggression to courage of Mars,the significator of the third house, and the third house aggressing it with some frustration.
This aspect limits overt courage.

RishiRahul

unanth · Post by **unanth** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:39 am

Yes , the courage is not overt at all as you said

RishiRahul · Post by **RishiRahul** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:06 pm

unanth wrote:Yes , the courage is not overt at all as you said

What i meant is internal aggression,

Rishi

unanth · Post by **unanth** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:35 am

yes i understood what you said.
how is the strength of the planets taken into consideration.
by default, in general may we consider Saturn to be stronger than Mars in maleficiance,  i am not talking about a particular chart.
And in specific, which strength should be given more relevance. as i find that most of the time Astakavarga Bala is very much different when compared to Shadbala or Vimsopaka Bala

could you also comment on how it works with Arudha pada of the 3rd house

gaonkarswapnil · Post by **gaonkarswapnil** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:17 am

Namshkaar Unath ji,

Sticking to the basic question asked by you about the courage ( parakarama) will make clear if we apply the concept of argala on 3rd house ,

4th house which is 2nd from 3rd has dhana argala so it is obvious that 4th house which is our mana will act as a pivot to our courage

Also to add more on it planets in 6th which has sukha argala will give happiness to a person by overcoming enemies

Lagna which has labha argala will give gains in terms of fame or self satisfaction.

Rishi ji has given more deep understanding on it even i am trying to understand for learning purpose, I have just tried to post my understanding so that if something is wrong can be corrected.

Regards

Swapnil

unanth · Post by **unanth** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:47 am

gaonkarswapnil wrote:Namshkaar Unath ji,

Sticking to the basic question asked by you about the courage ( parakarama) will make clear if we apply the concept of argala on 3rd house ,

4th house which is 2nd from 3rd has dhana argala so it is obvious that 4th house which is our mana will act as a pivot to our courage

Also to add more on it planets in 6th which has sukha argala will give happiness to a person by overcoming enemies

Lagna which has labha argala will give gains in terms of fame or self satisfaction.

Rishi ji has given more deep understanding on it even i am trying to understand for learning purpose, I have just tried to post my understanding so that if something is wrong can be corrected.

Regards

Swapnil

Swapnil ji,

its good to have your point of view

if  you have a chart, we can further discuss and learn from the point of view of Argala also.

As you said 2nd 4th and 11th argalas have impact on the said house. but it depends on whether malefics or benefics are palced there.
as you said 6th house planets giving sukha argala will give happiness by overcoming enemies but malefics there, may not give happiness.

we should also take secondary argala (5th house argala)

we may also discuss how the above argalas are counteracted by the VirodhaArgalas of 12, 10, 3rd and 9th houses

thanks

gaonkarswapnil · Post by **gaonkarswapnil** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:22 am

Namashkaar Unath ji,

Sorry my mistake i wanted to say 6th bhaav not planets

Give me time to think on the this.

Regards

Swapnil

gaonkarswapnil · Post by **gaonkarswapnil** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:56 am

unanth wrote:
gaonkarswapnil wrote:Namshkaar Unath ji,

Sticking to the basic question asked by you about the courage ( parakarama) will make clear if we apply the concept of argala on 3rd house ,

4th house which is 2nd from 3rd has dhana argala so it is obvious that 4th house which is our mana will act as a pivot to our courage

Also to add more on it planets in 6th which has sukha argala will give happiness to a person by overcoming enemies

Lagna which has labha argala will give gains in terms of fame or self satisfaction.

Rishi ji has given more deep understanding on it even i am trying to understand for learning purpose, I have just tried to post my understanding so that if something is wrong can be corrected.

Regards

Swapnil
Swapnil ji,

its good to have your point of view

if you have a chart, we can further discuss and learn from the point of view of Argala also.

As you said 2nd 4th and 11th argalas have impact on the said house. but it depends on whether malefics or benefics are palced there.
as you said 6th house planets giving sukha argala will give happiness by overcoming enemies but malefics there, may not give happiness.

we should also take secondary argala (5th house argala)

we may also discuss how the above argalas are counteracted by the VirodhaArgalas of 12, 10, 3rd and 9th houses

thanks

Namashkaar Unath ji,

Yes you are right it depends on malefics/benifics placement but if there are no planets there then we have to consider the lordship of the rashi

As in for 6th house w.r.t. 3rd take Eg of the the Warrior Kings they will only show the courage to fight if and only they have good soldiers (Servants)

With regards to secondary argala it is not not easily felt or noticed and only with time are these get noticed and even i am trying to understand the secondary concept

Virodha is just opposite and it gets activated if and only there is argala like if there are planets in 4th and 10th then only the planet in 10th will cause virodha argala

Regards

Swapnil

unanth · Post by **unanth** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:34 am

hi

secondary argala of the 5th house seems not very significant as you mentioned . if i am trying to relate it to different houses , its only making impact only in some cases
eg;  7th house marriage , 5th from 7th is 11th( income)

PVR Narsimha Rao's  eg: 4th house of learning, 5th from 4th is 8th( hardwork)

With regards to 3rd house courage, the argala of 4th house(2nd from 3rd) of manas, heart countered by 2nd house (12th from 3rd)
argala of 6th as you said (4th from 3rd) countered by 12th(10th from 3rd)
argala of 1st house(11th from third) countered by 5th (3rd from 3rd)

also please confirm once again regarding virodha argala. i read its caused by the planet in the house and also by house itself if empty

gaonkarswapnil · Post by **gaonkarswapnil** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:19 pm

Namashkaar Unath ji,

As for secondary argala i never said they are not significant even i am trying to understand well as you said that it 7th is making some impact on 11 th wrt 7th would also like to to know your views also on PVR ji's 8th

Also i feel we are off track about your main question about 3rd and 4th as now the question comes on argala

A new thread will be helpfull i think

For more info on argala you can go into our learning section

Regards

Swapnil

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