Judgement of Selfishness in Astrology

[RishiRahul]

 :)

[Rohiniranjan]

 :)

When we are full of emotions (and its icons) and speechless (not words or text), it represents a 'turning point!'

I think this new practice of 'Haasya Yoga' exemplifies that! People just collect together and laugh.

They let go of inhibitions and similar chains and ropes and the healing of WUJI begins (google please)

I think Rajneesh, the jabalpore professor started that way but somewhere along the path was way-laid by those around him!

Hence the POET said: Ekla Cholo RAY!

All watch it, some get it, others flounder and wonder...

Love, Light, Reality,

[Vinay Jha]

Classification of Ahamkaara into Saatvika- Raajasika- Taamasika categories  induces me do define selfishness as Taamasika Ahamkaara, which forces a person into moral stupidity of taking the world as an udder to feed his/her supreme self ( - George Eliot, Middlemarch).

Thus, selfishness cannot be separated from overall ethical make-up of a person, his/her overall balance of virtues and sins. I evaluate these things from combinations given in BPHS for destination after death : Heaven, Hell, etc. These combinations define the moral constitution at birth, and therefore can be changed through good or bad karmas of this life.

Sun and Atmakaaraka makes a person self centred if they are malefic. But what about a self centred person whose money &c is cheated by pseudo-friends due to malefic Sun or Atmakaaraka in 4th house of Suhrida ? A person may be self centred, without being able to rob others due to other combinations in chart. Such a person may pose as unselfish.

I side with RR ji in opining that there cannot be any clear cut narrow formula for defining selfishness astrologically. Yet, we must strive to find something.

-VJ

[Rohiniranjan]

Classification of Ahamkaara into Saatvika- Raajasika- Taamasika categories  induces me do define selfishness as Taamasika Ahamkaara, which forces a person into moral stupidity of taking the world as an udder to feed his/her supreme self ( - George Eliot, Middlemarch).

Thus, selfishness cannot be separated from overall ethical make-up of a person, his/her overall balance of virtues and sins. I evaluate these things from combinations given in BPHS for destination after death : Heaven, Hell, etc. These combinations define the moral constitution at birth, and therefore can be changed through good or bad karmas of this life.

Sun and Atmakaaraka makes a person self centred if they are malefic. But what about a self centred person whose money &c is cheated by pseudo-friends due to malefic Sun or Atmakaaraka in 4th house of Suhrida ? A person may be self centred, without being able to rob others due to other combinations in chart. Such a person may pose as unselfish.

I side with RR ji in opining that there cannot be any clear cut narrow formula for defining selfishness astrologically. Yet, we must strive to find something.

-VJ

Dear Vinay_bhai,

What I write in this post in not something researched by me in any thorough manner, so please take it in that light. I know you are a very meticulous person, in your reading of the literature and also that you have a good head on your shoulders and a heart to match.

Insecurity is at the root of selfishness and its big brother: greed. Of course several other problems that humans face are also centered on this sense of insecurity. There was a time when parents used to teach their children not to be selfish. Even those that were not good role-models, unfortunately did not pay attention to the foundations of these children and failed to make them secure or given them a sense or strategies of how to be secure! The mightest and grandest mansion built on a weak foundation must crumble. laws of Physics!!

Lagna (and lord), lights (moon and sun) and atmakaraka, when unbalanced and afflicted by malefics can be seen to be associated with insecurity and its gang of problems such as selfishness.

Society does not help either. In the material world selfishness has become to be seen as a virtue! In the modern era of 'fast-tracking', one does not need to die. Heaven and Hell have descended on earth and using the hotel analogy, one need not leave the room any longer since room-service has become available in sansaar!

Love and Light,

[RishiRahul]

Dear Vinay ji and Dada,


Both the above posts have much sense, and we come to two factors leading to selfishness, I would say:

Selfishness due to insecurity/self protective motivation....1
Selfishness due to greed...2

Can it be broadly summed up as this?  If so we can try to find out factors leading to this?!!

RishiRahul

[Raman Deep Singh]

Hi Everyone,
I m bit missing from board coz of my schedule but trying to get back as much as possible.
I was thinking about understanding or tracing of selfish person from astrological point of view.

I am going to put my basic understanding here.Please do comment.
People who are selfish cnt have much of the happiness from inside and thus harsha inside them wud
get effected and lessen. Harsha bala is wat we know off...Doesnt matter what calculation/maths and books
say there has to be some relation of the word HARSHA in the sense of happiness in astrology, since the
Bala is given this name HARSHA Bala.

As per me ,this shud give us some answer. 7 planets are considered in Harsha Bala
(JHORA->Strength-> Other Strengths->Right Click on Vimshopaka Balas and Select Harsha Bala )
For a selfish person Planets won't be in their state of Harsha thus the native in
turn wont be happy from inside.

I checked in quite a few charts. I realised People with basic selfish nature wont be having any planet
with harsha bala more than 5 and MAX one planet wud have more than 5 harsha bala
(harsha bala points are 0,5,10 and 15).

Thus more the planets are close to 0 and 5 bala points more selfish the person is.Even if one planet goes
to bala strength of 15 the person becomes reasonably unselfish.
Out of 7 planets, if 4 planets have 0 harsha bala and 3 have 5 harsha bala the native could be very
close to being unconditionally selfish.

Here i would give few examples of apparently unselfish people.

For example :-
Vivekanand ji got 4 planets with 10 harsha bala
Ramana Maharishi got 3 planets with 10 harsha bala and NONE 0
Swami Sivananda got 3 planets with 10 harsha bala

These are the only ones with quite aparently UNSELFISH nature ... the others(Selfish ones) i am not mentioning  :)
coz it wud create controversy and may drag the topic other way

I have also gone to my personal references before commenting here .
I would like members to reply here on this.

There are few more pointers i wold like to discuss here and wud mention them soon

Regards,
Raman Deep Singh

[Certain]

@Raman: I liked your point of view a lot, but I disagree with it based on many factors.
Harsha bala is collective combination of four factors like sthana bala ,swakeshtri bala etc. It is so generic that it doesnt really specify that feature of selflessness.
Secondly , selfishness is not a  fixed attribute like acquired physical height or cast or your parents which largely don't change (again coditions apply). These are attributes which are very changeable and they do change back and forth. Selfish can become selfless and vice versa. Harshabala of D1 would not change unless we really start being speculative and start adding transits and tajik aspect as influence to annual temporary harshabala.
Then other thing is, every selfish is not uniformly selfish in every aspect of life and vice versa. Even most selfish people have some sort of selflessness in them.
A known self-less ascetic and really astounding intellect known to the modern world ,Gautam Buddha chose pathway of 'self'-enlightening leaving a wife and son behind alone.Isnt it a selfish husband and a selfish father. It isn't but then it is.

I will post some details of horoscopes of some highly selfish person I know, later in the evening , wud leave it for everyone to dissect out. We can test the harshabala concept as well.

[Rohiniranjan]

@Raman: I liked your point of view a lot, but I disagree with it based on many factors.
Harsha bala is collective combination of four factors like sthana bala ,swakeshtri bala etc. It is so generic that it doesnt really specify that feature of selflessness.
Secondly , selfishness is not a  fixed attribute like acquired physical height or cast or your parents which largely don't change (again coditions apply). These are attributes which are very changeable and they do change back and forth. Selfish can become selfless and vice versa. Harshabala of D1 would not change unless we really start being speculative and start adding transits and tajik aspect as influence to annual temporary harshabala.
Then other thing is, every selfish is not uniformly selfish in every aspect of life and vice versa. Even most selfish people have some sort of selflessness in them.
A known self-less ascetic and really astounding intellect known to the modern world ,Gautam Buddha chose pathway of 'self'-enlightening leaving a wife and son behind alone.Isnt it a selfish husband and a selfish father. It isn't but then it is.

I will post some details of horoscopes of some highly selfish person I know, later in the evening , wud leave it for everyone to dissect out. We can test the harshabala concept as well.

Another very nice post and sharing, Certain_ji!

I have noticed also in many individuals a GREY-ness of selfishness. It is not black and white, in other words, though jyotishis tend to portray the human experience as a binary, all or none reality. That is where, 'Jupiter will do this, saturn will take away that' cadre of thinking portrays. That is a hazardous habit, because it can introduce illusions and fallacies in our thinking when we look at charts in the field. Jyotish is full of statements (dicta) but always many modifiers and modulators are also mentioned. We all should remember to remind all others about that. Not an easy feat though, particularly on the digital nature of internet (I don't mean the electronics behind it!) due to the patchy nature of our conversations which we call a 'thread' but it is not a continuous line but made up of disjointed dots!

Returning to my point: Many individuals are very selfish with others but would be entirely selfless for their relatives, children, grandchildren. I think it has to do with what they consider as "Self". Each individual has a different perception of that, as to what constitutes that 'self' or community of SELF!

Love and Light,

[Certain]

@Rohiniranjan ji : Thanks , kindly dont add 'ji' in addition to certain , because certain is not my name. Also I live in western part of the globe so I am quite comfy with being called by first name ( which is not certain anyways).

Horoscopes I have seen of some highly selfish people I came across:
Candidate A :
29 mar 1972
time of birth 1:59 pm
City Bahadurgarh Haryana

This guy despite of being quite well off , got married in 2006 after having broken engagement once , was married to very educated professional woman , despite of her working status , if she ever needed, he was not ready to pay for even grocery alone in the name of domestic expenditures to opearte a home. Had a very clear strategy that if in case for child birth ,if wife cudnt do  job for sixth months , He wud not pay for any expenditure or any bill of home, she should bring money from father as she didnt bring sufficient dowry. This man is raised in India , lives abroad and refuses to spend a single penny on wife , parents , brother or anything even after being financially very good. Girl finally left him and divorced him in 2008. Isnt bright or brilliant guy at all.

Candidate B
13 June 1976
time 11:40 pm or 11:20 pm
city Jodhpur Rajasthan

I have no words to explain the kind of person this woman is , she is married , lives abroad , is lier of first degree , and would go any length anything for her advantages and selfish motives. She will not lose her 5 pennies, even if it means making you lose 95 pennies to save her own 5 pennies  , she will do it ,come what may. Level of selfishness is uniform almost with everyone , has no love for any of relatives , husband , father , mother or brother. Loves her reputation and wud do everything deceptive to look clean.


CandiDate C
DOB 2-SEP -1973
Tis 2:20 pm pr 2:40 pm
City Jind haryana

He is husband to candidate B , very good earner and a distinctively nasty person , does all fradulent things despite of being educated , matches wife in every aspect of meanness , cant say who is worse wife or himself.  Very selfish with everyone except parents , very money minded and a  very poisonous mind.This guy is really nasty towards all including relatives , brother , wife as well ,but is responsible towards parents. Agrees to most of things they do or want , another reason could be father has hold on all accumulated property so may be it is either a set stage of obedience so that parents dont strip him off parental property or he is really responsible towards parents. Again loves reputation and wud do all to save it in front of people outside of home.

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear 'Certain',

Certainly! I am glad that you don't like formality, and neither do I. So, I will address you as Certain and you must address me as Rohini or Rohiniranjan. I too do not find any solace in the tail (ji!)

Internet is a rather interesting place where we use 'handles' for a variety of reasons and it becomes our monniker and I have always respected that. On internet that is the name we like to be known by or recognized as. Similarly, we cannot really know or judge the person we are having cyber-conversation etc (like we are having), or their gender, for that matter. So, I am perfectly okay and comfortable with that.

Thanks for sharing the three data. I will certainly study them and perhaps may have something to share with you all. I will respect your judgment that these people are selfishness incarnate, from the description.

It is good to interact with you. You sound knowledgeable, and experienced. It is always a personal pleasure to converse and exchange thoughts and perceptions with such individuals like you.

Thanks for sharing and your willingness to explain and illustrate things and instance from your personal collection.

Regards,

[Vinay Jha]

@Certain :

I agree with your views about selfishness.

I checked your case-1, but due to uncertainty of 20 minutes in other cases I did not check them. Case-1 is well explaiend on following accounts :

Attitude towards wife is explained by D1 and D9 : see Rahu, the AK.

Attitude towards parents is explained by lagnesg of D12 in trik.

My experience is that SELFISHNESS cannot be defined by any single astrological attribute or combination of attributes. Rather, it is defined by relevant varga charts and periods of planets. A person  may be selfish with respect to wife but may may be generous for brothers, depending upon respective charts and planets. With changes in periods _dashaas, attitude of the native also changes : although some basic traits may remain always there due to stable effects of birthchart, their magnitude changes due to periods of planets.

Some attributes, however, are more important. E.g., I endorse Rohini ji's view that AK is associated with selfishness.

-VJ

[Rohiniranjan]

@Certain :

I agree with your views about selfishness.

I checked your case-1, but due to uncertainty of 20 minutes in other cases I did not check them. Case-1 is well explaiend on following accounts :

Attitude towards wife is explained by D1 and D9 : see Rahu, the AK.

Attitude towards parents is explained by lagnesg of D12 in trik.

My experience is that SELFISHNESS cannot be defined by any single astrological attribute or combination of attributes. Rather, it is defined by relevant varga charts and periods of planets. A person  may be selfish with respect to wife but may may be generous for brothers, depending upon respective charts and planets. With changes in periods _dashaas, attitude of the native also changes : although some basic traits may remain always there due to stable effects of birthchart, their magnitude changes due to periods of planets.

Some attributes, however, are more important. E.g., I endorse Rohini ji's view that AK is associated with selfishness.

-VJ

Vinay_bhai,

Thanks for additional and valuable comments on this topic.
Regarding attitudes towards parents, do you think it would be helpful, in addition to look at mutual dispositions-association between the relevant charakarakas for self and parents in the context of D12?

This is just a thought, not something I have extensively tested, yet. Just seems logically correct.

[Certain]

Some attributes, however, are more important. E.g., I endorse Rohini ji's view that AK is associated with selfishness.

-VJ

Thanks to both of you to pitch in and I will try to get accurate birth time of the rest of the two today.

Dear 'Certain',

Certainly!  I am glad that you don't like formality, and neither do I. So, I will address you as Certain and you must address me as Rohini or Rohiniranjan. I too do not find any solace in the tail (ji!)  

Internet is a rather interesting place where we use 'handles' for a variety of reasons and it becomes our monniker and I have always respected that. On internet that is the name we like to be known by or recognized as. Similarly, we cannot really know or judge the person we are having cyber-conversation etc (like we are having), or their gender, for that matter. So, I am perfectly okay and comfortable with that.

Thanks for sharing the three data. I will certainly study them and perhaps may have something to share with you all. I will respect your judgment that these people are selfishness incarnate, from the description.

It is good to interact with you. You sound knowledgeable, and experienced. It is always a personal pleasure to converse and exchange thoughts and perceptions with such individuals like you.

Thanks for sharing and your willingness to explain and illustrate things and instance from your personal collection.

Regards,

Thanks a lot for kind words, sentiments are very mutual.
I am a 'woman' and just randomly selected a name which was non-indicative of the gender.I think it is high time ,I should select some feminine name even if it is a screen name . I have been in childhood very fond of a name 'Siya' , I think I can take this opportunity to go by a nick name of Siya which I can not use in my day to day life as my mother insisted for one of her choice as my legal name.
.
Siya

[Rhutobello]

Let me not be a "Party Killler", but I believe that you will find selfishness in any "star combination"

I think selfishness stay on our "weaker parts" like "Pride"(If your pride is great, then it dmg you because you have difficulty to see others need".
"The urge to collect" We all want millions,, we all look at the Neighbor, and want more....we always strive for more values, even when we know we can never use it in our lifetime, very few is content when they have enough, and they can get more)"
Insecurity, that makes us selfish because we have fear to show weakness, and by that try to compensate by downgrading other, or collecting in order to show wealth, in hope to get respect.

So we are like several other animals, we collect in order to own....and if our """social border""" have broken down, then we can only see cases from our side, and we become very selfish.

Here is a statement by Pope John Paul 2;

" The great danger for family life, in the midst of any society whose idols are pleasure, comfort, and independence, lies in the fact that people close their hearts and become selfish," John Paul II.
Selfishness has been described as one of the major enemies of married love and of love within the family. This description is psychologically correct because selfishness, while falsely appearing to have many benefits, actually turns the person in upon himself/herself, thereby interfering with healthy self-giving which is essence of marital love.  Subseqently, this personality weakness creates significant pain and suffering in marriages and families. It is a major cause of marital anger, permissive parenting, addictive behaviors, infidelity, separation and divorce. Unless it is uncovered and addressed, selfishness will lead spouses to treat loved ones as objects and not as gifted persons.

[Rohiniranjan]

Let me not be a "Party Killler", but I believe that you will find selfishness in any "star combination"

I think selfishness stay on our "weaker parts" like "Pride"(If your pride is great, then it dmg you because you have difficulty to see others need".
"The urge to collect" We all want millions,, we all look at the Neighbor, and want more....we always strive for more values, even when we know we can never use it in our lifetime, very few is content when they have enough, and they can get more)"
Insecurity, that makes us selfish because we have fear to show weakness, and by that try to compensate by downgrading other, or collecting in order to show wealth, in hope to get respect.

So we are like several other animals, we collect in order to own....and if our """social border""" have broken down, then we can only see cases from our side, and we become very selfish.

Here is a statement by Pope John Paul 2;

" The great danger for family life, in the midst of any society whose idols are pleasure, comfort, and independence, lies in the fact that people close their hearts and become selfish," John Paul II.
Selfishness has been described as one of the major enemies of married love and of love within the family. This description is psychologically correct because selfishness, while falsely appearing to have many benefits, actually turns the person in upon himself/herself, thereby interfering with healthy self-giving which is essence of marital love.  Subseqently, this personality weakness creates significant pain and suffering in marriages and families. It is a major cause of marital anger, permissive parenting, addictive behaviors, infidelity, separation and divorce. Unless it is uncovered and addressed, selfishness will lead spouses to treat loved ones as objects and not as gifted persons.

The urge to collect is greed. The urge to hold on to what you have is selfishness. Both are kissing cousins! Their parents are uncertainty and insecurity.

Regards,