What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

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Rohiniranjan
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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm

Spirit Seeker wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:15 pm
नमः शिवाय!
...we need to understand why 1/9th part is defined for Bhāgya,...
Long ago, I had read (PVR? I could be misquoting him...) that the tanu-dhan-sahaj-sukha-suta etc house attributes are reflected in the amshas, so D1 for physical matters, D2 (hora) for wealth etc, D3 for siblings and strength related, D4 for contentment. It is not perfect, of course, because D7 and not D5 is prescribed for progeny... etc and then beyond D12, the cycle of 12 begins again at a higher spiritual plane etc. If following this line of thought, since 9th house is about bhagya (luck, fortune etc), D9 represents the bhagya domain of the 12 houses in D1.

KAS system has another explanation which presumably deals with-explains the distribution, differently.

Of course then there are folks who insist that the amshas must not be treated as bhavas and so while navamsha might indicate a measure of strength and beneficience of planets in D1, it (and other amshas) must not be treated as *charts* with bhavas etc.

As a slight aside, we also hear from modern doyens that griha drishtis (planetary aspects, such as conjunction, sextile-square (saturn), trinal (jupiter), nadir square (4) and quincunx (8th) in case of mars) must not be mixed up with the rashi drishti (sign aspects, such as fire-water etc) in an analysis. This I cannot instinctively agree with since planets do not wear either Parasara hat at one instance or Jaimini hat at another! Just does not feel right to me. Moreover both types of aspectual relations are described by Parasara in his scriptural text! Speaking of which, there seems to be a bit of discrepancy because in readily available sanskrit-english, sanskrit-hindi versions, chapters and slokas are differently presented. For instance the sloka quoted by you in a few of your recent messages (chap 3 sloka 5) shows up in the Chowkhamba edition in chapter 3 but as sloka 8 and more importantly is differently worded! Modern problem arises as to which version to believe in (preferences vary all over the globe) and I have also heard unsubstantiated claims that there are half a dozen versions floating around, some revealed, others partly or entirely kept hidden by possesers of those for a variety of reasons! Some even opine that the original full BPHS is either lost or *rephrased* and/or patched up by folks later on, and not necessarily by nefarious intent! I have captured some of these in my article about "lost astrotreasures over time...".

It is understandable and indeed expected that given the huge number of years between the original discourse between Maitraya and Parasara, much water (of all kinds!) has flown under the bridge...!

Munde munde mati bhinna, I suppose...? As many birds, so many calls...?? Sure emough to keep interested minds occupied for more than one lifetime!

Regards,
Rohiniranjan
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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Spirit Seeker » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:10 am

नमः शिवाय|
Kindly excuse me for late reply. Inter IIT sports are going on, this time it is held in our IIT-Guwahati campus. :smt020
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm
As a slight aside, we also hear from modern doyens that griha drishtis (planetary aspects, such as conjunction, sextile-square (saturn), trinal (jupiter), nadir square (4) and quincunx (8th) in case of mars) must not be mixed up with the rashi drishti (sign aspects, such as fire-water etc) in an analysis.
Hmm. It seems :smt045
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm
This I cannot instinctively agree with since planets do not wear either Parasara hat at one instance or Jaimini hat at another! Just does not feel right to me.
Of course :smt043 Grahās will not wear someone's hat. They are completely programmed & chipped by our farther Parameśvara. I just wanna let you know what I've heard that Graha dṛṣti & Rāśi dṛṣti works differently because they have different aims (or definition)
Actually curses are from Graha dṛṣti. Graha dṛṣti works only with "ichāśakti", where as Rāśi dṛṣti has to do with "Kriyāśakti" as well as "Jṇāna śakti". These three Śakti's has different domain & works accordingly thus we need to analyze it differently. This will be a very long talk if we will start discussing about these Śakti's. But It is a wonderful topic! I came to know about this when I've started Jyotiṣam initially, because the 1st doubt arise in my mind is what is Graha dṛṣti & why SHOULD Grahās possess this energy at all
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm
Moreover both types of aspectual relations are described by Parasara in his scriptural text!
Yes Rohiniranjan Ji, I've seen this in BPHS :smt045
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm
For instance the sloka quoted by you in a few of your recent messages (chap 3 sloka 5) shows up in the Chowkhamba edition in chapter 3 but as sloka 8 and more importantly is differently worded!
Thanks a lot. Now in the free time I can work on this.
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm
Modern problem arises as to which version to believe in (preferences vary all over the globe)
Haa, now this is a very crucial & a critical job for us to discriminate, see when I say discriminate I repeat, in unbiased manner. :smt045
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm
I have also heard unsubstantiated claims that there are half a dozen versions floating around, some revealed, others partly or entirely kept hidden by possesers of those for a variety of reasons!
This is where an Astrologer stop becoming a Jyotiṣi. What we will give, we will get it, this is a simple fact. Again this has a deeper consequences I feel.
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm
Some even opine that the original full BPHS is either lost or *rephrased* and/or patched up by folks later on, and not necessarily by nefarious intent!
What I feel is, if we are destined to get the knowledge, we WILL SURELY GET the correct one, pukka, undoubtedly!
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm
I have captured some of these in my article about "lost astrotreasures over time...".
Thanks, it'll be helpful for people who are learners.
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:17 pm
Munde munde mati bhinna
Yup, all Munde's will be Bhinna (different), because that's how we're chipped. But we know, there are so many like minded people whom we can interact mostly with
Last edited by Spirit Seeker on Mon May 06, 2019 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:37 am

Spirit Seeker wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:10 am
नमः शिवाय|
...
So anyways in general when we wish to make a definitive point, using ancient astrotreasures (texts which are avaialable partially, and with some intentional or unintentional modifications introduced, imposed, incorporated by later day transcribers, translators, it is best to provide the specific version-edition information so that readership can figure out whether to accept or reject such a point. Even on forums where most individuals might be more interested in getting a quick personal reading and then vanish, leaving the soft-hearted astrologer wondering as to what the point or utility was behind his or her spending personal time in drawing up the reading-seeker's chart and reading it!

More, later perhaps, if God wishes...!

Regards,
Rohiniranjan
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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Spirit Seeker » Mon May 06, 2019 11:35 am

नमश्शिवाय|/Namaśśivāya|🙏🏻 dear Rōhiṇīranjan Ji!
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:51 am
Regarding Karakamsa, although the amsa is determined in navamsa, some jyotishis have stated that the inter-planetary relationships etc should be examined in the navamsa chart, while others have recommended such an examination also in the rashi (D1) chart.
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:51 am
Would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.
1st of all, please accept my humble sorry! & please ignore the a post in the 1st page of mine (mostly not completely)
i.e., the following post:
Spirit Seeker wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:15 pm
by Spirit Seeker » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:45 pm
........................

Now, here are the correct gathered reasoning which I've listened from my Jyotiṣa Guru Sanjay Rath.
He has told the following:
No doubt Kārakāṃśa is nothing but Kāraka (the Ātmakāraka) in Aṃśa cakra over here It's in Navāṃśa. This is clear like if some say Lagnāṃśa, its just mean that Lagna in a particular aṃśa cakra. Nava aṃśa, Navāṃśa, Daśāṃśa these are divisional charts.
Now, if we use the same word Kārakāṃśa by mapping back into the Rāśi cakra, It's terminologically incorrect! :smt045
Instead the word Kārakāṃśaka encompasses this trait, as the term Aṃśaka refers to the divisional chart's position mapped back into the Rāśi cakra.
Now, let me provide somewhat profound things which was said by him,
  • "Ka" Śabdha is said to be Brahma Akṣaram. There will be 2 Brahma Akṣara's, one is A (अ) & the other is ka. Ātma Sṛṣṭi happens with A (अ), all the Ātma are with Śiva (the Pramātma) so how can we separate from him, we can separate Brahma only through A (अ) Now Śarīra Sṛṣṭi happens with ka. Please observe, vowels (we call Svara स्वर, in Hindi they call स्वर्) So from these vowels only we'll get Ātma, Vowels (A, Ā, I, Ī, Ṛ & so on). Consonants (Ka, Kha, Ga, Gha, Ṅ, Ca, Cha, Ja, Jha & so on) So from these consonants we'll get Śarīram.
    So let's take an example how Khāli's Kṛīṃ (क्रीम्) has come? It formed though Śarīra Sṛṣṭi, Śarīra Sṛṣṭi's Kṛīṃ has come through the Ka Śabdha. If one repeatedly chants क्रीम्क्रीम्क्रीम् the Śarīra will comply with the Manas... Now when we're talking of the Sṛṣṭi, We're talking their body in 12th from Ātmakāraka in the Navāṃśa i.e., the Kārakāṃśa. This is purely pertaining to one's Ātma. When we talk of real body i.e., the Śarīra level we need to use the Ka Śabdha. So, one should map the Ātmakāraka's sign back into the Rāśi cakra & call it as "Kārakāṃśaka", but not Kārakāṃśa. :smt018

    That's why Aṃśaka refers to the divisional chart's position mapped back into the Rāśi cakra.
I hope you're very well aware of the fact that inner nature of an individual is seen through Navāṃśa. That's why we see inner nature of the Ātmakāraka from Navāṃśa itself. Let's say if one wants to see the Dharma of the Ātma, to understand the soul's Dharma, we see 9th house from Kārakāṃśa. Same way, Mōkṣa is seen from 4th & 12th from Kārakāṃśa. Every person wants Mōkṣa to the Ātma. That's why we see in Navāṃśa. Once Jīvātma achieves Mōkṣa there's no need to talk about the body getting Mōkṣa. Now, Rōhiṇīranjan Ji, I think it's crystal clear on why the things as the way they are & why these two (namely, Kārakāṃśa & Kārakāṃśaka) has different connotations.

Now if one watch an interview by K.N. Rao which was interviewed by Vaughn Paul, can be seen in YouTube, he uses this Kārakāṃśa in a wrong way. He has justified with a wrong example.
Now I'm taking my words back, as I'm at a learning stage, So kindly excuse me. :smt045 since till the date I've followed what K.N. Rao has told pertaining to this concept, now with this profound logic & also through so many examples I've realized that Kārakāṃśa is from Navāṃśa itself.

Thanks.
Vivēk :)
Iti Śivaṃ!🙏🏻
Last edited by Spirit Seeker on Wed May 08, 2019 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rohiniranjan
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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue May 07, 2019 12:37 am

Dear Vivek,

Just as in navigational strategies the method of "triangulation" is a good and practical approach, the same must perhaps be adopted when learning not only astrology but pretty much any discipline.

Even two points alone do not suffice, because everything between two points will be a straight line.

The third point is needed for turning the straight line into a triangle!

Astrology is a multidimensional discipline, but 3 is the minimum for progress without going astray...! :smt002
Rohiniranjan
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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Spirit Seeker » Wed May 08, 2019 5:45 am

नमश्शिवाय|/Namaśśivāya|🙏🏻 dear Rōhiṇīranjan Ji!
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 12:37 am
Astrology is a multidimensional discipline, but 3 is the minimum for progress without going astray...!
Dear Rōhiṇīranjan Ji, I've read your reply yesterday & was trying to contemplate on what you've actually said & meant.

Astrology is multidimensional discipline!? I can't say Yes or no to this till I understand its derivation. As long as I know & which is actually emphasized by my Jyotiṣa Guru Sanjay Rath, the concept of time should be understand properly as well as space of course.
So, It's 3 dimensions (Coordinate space) + 1 (time dimension). So, with the knowledge that I presently have can say It's 4 dimensional... Yes, I understand we need Math to explain the positions of the Graha's & for other various calculations, Physics to understand the subtle nature of the Graha's, other discipline's will also play its role to understand its importance... But you've told 3 are the minimum for progress without going astray. What do you mean by this? May be because I don't exactly know what does triangulation method is.
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 12:37 am
Even two points alone do not suffice, because everything between two points will be a straight line.

So, what are these 2 points in my above reply?

Another thing is that I've explained the basic meanings of the words & how these two words namely Kārakāṃśa & Kārakāṃśaka manifests. Do you mean these two points will not suffice? :smt013

One important thing, I've not asked anyone for the correctness of the above on what I've written because I've understood why that is correct way!... I hope I've clearly explained what it's said.

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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed May 08, 2019 2:05 pm

Vivek ji,

You misunderstood me. I was not trying to correct or guide you or your thinking, but merely adding few words to your thread.

The three points I had in mind when I mentioned those are what astrologers (jyotishis) call sudarshan kundali.
Rohiniranjan
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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Spirit Seeker » Wed May 08, 2019 2:51 pm

नमश्शिवाय|/Namaśśivāya|🙏🏻 dear Rōhiṇīranjan Ji!
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:05 pm
You misunderstood me.
:smt017 :smt009
Dear Rōhiṇīranjan Ji, I'm extremely sorry then, one more thing I've to tell you now, your replies generally makes me to think tooooooooo much :smt040
For me, it takes some time to digest things & especially when it comes to the writings of your's, understanding them will need lot of expertise in language. :smt013 Which I'm not good at it.
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:05 pm
I was not trying to correct or guide you or your thinking
Arey Rōhiṇīranjan Ji, I will always be greatful if you guide... May be somewhere I've written some wrong or some sentence gave a wrong notion, that's why you've written the above.
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:05 pm
The three points I had in mind when I mentioned those are what astrologers (jyotishis) call sudarshan kundali.
Oh! Okay, I don't know about this. though have seen this in JHora :smt003

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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Rohiniranjan » Thu May 09, 2019 12:07 am

Spirit Seeker wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:51 pm
Arey Rōhiṇīranjan Ji, I will always be greatful if you guide... May be somewhere I've written some wrong or some sentence gave a wrong notion, that's why you've written the above.
You honour me by saying that. And yes I am painfully aware of my flawed communication skills :-) Even my childhood friends sometimes get frustrated by my tendency to inject too many ideas and complex syntactic structure and my other weakness: stream of consciousness writing and painfully-long run-on sentences :smt004 I am an old primate now, and too late and too difficult to rectify an age old habit!
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:05 pm
The three points I had in mind when I mentioned those are what astrologers (jyotishis) call sudarshan kundali.
Oh! Okay, I don't know about this. though have seen this in JHora :smt003
[/quote]

If you go through B.P.H.S., towards the end of the huge tome/tomes you shall come upon this Sudarshan Kundli thing and also a rather valuable hint that Parashara ji has given about planetary influences and dominance depending on occupation of bhava, rulership, etc etc
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Re: What're the ग्रह combinations which makes a person an "Efficient Astrologer"?

Post by Spirit Seeker » Thu May 09, 2019 10:24 am

नमश्शिवाय|/Namaśśivāya|🙏🏻 dear Rōhiṇīranjan Ji!
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 12:07 am
Even my childhood friends sometimes get frustrated by my tendency to inject too many ideas and complex syntactic structure
Hmm, I see, Okay.
Rohiniranjan wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 12:07 am
other weakness: stream of consciousness writing and painfully-long run-on sentences
FYI, this is not new to me, there are couple of friends, who writes paragraphs & paragraphs. One of my friend is also a blogger. There's another friend from other forum who is very close named Garett from Canada. with username GNE, he writes very lengthy like you. So, it's not new to me. :smt002

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