Ayanamsa

[arian_1c]

dear rohiniranjan ji,
thanks a lot for that info, its always gr8 to read a technically detailed and straight to point post like that, i will start looking for tht book immediately...
I am obviously still learning and very curious person...
So, it would be great help if u cud share why u decided to use the Raman -33, and how u came up with that

thanks a lot and a happy new year to you too
regards
sahil

[Rohiniranjan]

Let me just say, after swimming hard for too long, it was a relief to reach 'sahil'!

But are you even swimming?

RR

[quote="arian_1c"]dear rohiniranjan ji,
thanks a lot for that info, its always gr8 to read a technically detailed and straight to point post like that, i will start looking for tht book immediately...
I am obviously still learning and very curious person...
So, it would be great help if u cud share why u decided to use the Raman -33, and how u came up with that

thanks a lot and a happy new year to you too
regards
sahil[/quote]

[arian_1c]

well in all honesty,
i had a great swim for a couple of years....
i think, it must have been still waters, but not shallow by any standards...
off late(nearly 2 yrs now), it feels like i have plunged into oceans, i am a bit lost but i can't really get an act together to get to the 'sahil'...i am open for directions!

[Rohiniranjan]

start slow, don't move your arms too wildly, certainly not against the tide (or you will get tired too soon) :-)

Try different ayanamshas in a few charts that have clearly distinct events such as marriage, death, births, accidents. Things that are often more destined.

Note that you may have to keep an eye on different dasha durations and different dashas themselves. Don't go with the lowest common factor (vimshottary-365.25).

Through fine-tuning, you will soon get to a point where things become comfortable. There is no short-cut, I am afraid. Also, one must really test it him/herself. Unless you are the kind of person who accepts things too readily upon faith.

RR

[quote="arian_1c"]well in all honesty,
i had a great swim for a couple of years....
i think, it must have been still waters, but not shallow by any standards...
off late(nearly 2 yrs now), it feels like i have plunged into oceans, i am a bit lost but i can't really get an act together to get to the 'sahil'...i am open for directions![/quote]

[arian_1c]

thanks for that rohini ji...
i will definitely try and follow your advice.
Since, we are talking of things that people tend to neglect, which of the following things do YOU take seriously while studying the charts...
Cuspal position of planets (sandhi)
Upagrahas
Ashtakvargas
Conjunctions of 3-4 planets
Also, YOGAS, i know we all talk about them, but i guess we hardly really understand them, i mean for instance i know somebody whos got the mahabhagya yoga in his chart(to my limited knowledge, it is the only yoga without any cancellation), but still when i study his chart, it doesn't really means that much to me, because, astrology to me is primarily a study of timing of events and not classification of pros and cons. I mean it doesn't really matters to me that someone has got a gajakesari yoga or a kemadruma yoga, when they are all dependent on the dasas and transit(both relate to timing), i hope u can understand where i am going with this..
Also, I have been reading your articles on boloji for a few years now, and i think(i might be wrong) that you follow the parashara system, wht do u have say abt other systems like KP(I am really intrigued by this), Jaimini, Cuspal and Lal Kitab...
I have really found it useful at times to combine the systems, in my limited ability of course, but then again so many times and i mean 6/10 times, i have to rely upon intuition(which thanks to god doesn't lets me down a lot). I mean this was one of the main reason I decided to check KP, because it claimed to give solid answers rather than leave things on imagination. I have just started KP, but am founding it a bit hard to implement because I am so used to the easy way.

hoping to get your expert advice on the matter
regards
sahil

[Rohiniranjan]

Parashari system is a misnomer. KP, Jaimini are all subsets of jyotish described by parashar!

I have never been attracted towards lal kitab.

KP is a variation on the Jyotish theme. It is fine but I would need to see more valid examples as opposed to just claims.

In fact much of jyotish seems to be full of claims and praises of this or that approach and this or that guru and so on but little validation that is consistently and scientifically done. Yet people readily climb on the soapbox to call astrology science or even scientific.

RR

[quote="arian_1c"]thanks for that rohini ji...
i will definitely try and follow your advice.
Since, we are talking of things that people tend to neglect, which of the following things do YOU take seriously while studying the charts...
Cuspal position of planets (sandhi)
Upagrahas
Ashtakvargas
Conjunctions of 3-4 planets
Also, YOGAS, i know we all talk about them, but i guess we hardly really understand them, i mean for instance i know somebody whos got the mahabhagya yoga in his chart(to my limited knowledge, it is the only yoga without any cancellation), but still when i study his chart, it doesn't really means that much to me, because, astrology to me is primarily a study of timing of events and not classification of pros and cons. I mean it doesn't really matters to me that someone has got a gajakesari yoga or a kemadruma yoga, when they are all dependent on the dasas and transit(both relate to timing), i hope u can understand where i am going with this..
Also, I have been reading your articles on boloji for a few years now, and i think(i might be wrong) that you follow the parashara system, wht do u have say abt other systems like KP(I am really intrigued by this), Jaimini, Cuspal and Lal Kitab...
I have really found it useful at times to combine the systems, in my limited ability of course, but then again so many times and i mean 6/10 times, i have to rely upon intuition(which thanks to god doesn't lets me down a lot). I mean this was one of the main reason I decided to check KP, because it claimed to give solid answers rather than leave things on imagination. I have just started KP, but am founding it a bit hard to implement because I am so used to the easy way.

hoping to get your expert advice on the matter
regards
sahil[/quote]

[astrobhadauria]

Astrology is the study of the effects of planetary forces upon man. It is not fortune telling. It is one of the best methods for man to learn about who he is, where he came from and where he is going. Astrology reveals character and character is destiny. Astrology shows nothing but tendencies. A man can rule his stars by exerting his will. Remember that good or so-called evil configurations are not the result of chance or luck, but are the product of our own past acts. The stars impel but do not compel.
The Law of Consequence, works in harmony with the planets. The spirit is born into the world at that opportune time when the Law and the planets may operate in harmony with each other. The birth of an Ego is so timed that the horoscope registers the kind of debts which the Ego has incurred in its previous lives, and the time when these debts come to fruition. The law of destiny is not a blind law, for it may be modified to a certain degree through the use of will power.
Astrology consists of 3 factors - the houses, the signs, and the planets. Each house represents a department of life. The signs are divisions of the heavens which by their placement relative to the houses indicate our basic temperament and attitude towards life. The planets through their motion through the houses & signs bring to us the opportunities for soul growth which we need for our individual development.
www.1234astrology

[sravankv]

Which is the accurate Ayanamsa Lahiri or KP

[pansel]

There are many krishnamurth Ayanamsa followers around

[Nechi]

Lahiri is the most widely used. It is approved by the Government of India and used in government records.
Lahiri and Krishnamurthi differ only by about 6' of arc.

[Rohiniranjan]

[quote="Nechi"]Lahiri is the most widely used. It is approved by the Government of India and used in government records.
Lahiri and Krishnamurthi differ only by about 6' of arc.[/quote]


Hi,

Does government of India officially acknowledge and approve of Jyotish? Do you know if it recognizes jyotish as a legal profession (regulated, as in requiring permit, license etc)?

RR

[Nechi]

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_national_calendar

Regarding your second question ........? (I am still laughing )

[Rohiniranjan]

[quote="Nechi"]Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_national_calendar

Regarding your second question ........? (I am still laughing :smt003)[/quote]

Nechi,

I am glad you *saw* the tongue-in-cheek humour that was intentional in my post and questions!

It is like a naturopathic council blessing, approving and endorsing a modern medicine antibiotic!

I am sure no elaboration is required!

Oh and thanks for the wikipedia reference. A quick glance indicated that it is full of memo notes saying "citation needed". Perhaps I will revisit it in a few years after the citations are all there <guffaw!>


RR

[RishiRahul]

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_national_calendar

Regarding your second question ........? (I am still laughing )

A very mean comment to make, with the animation showing the intention.

The above is a serious discussion of ayanamsa in Jyotish, which cannot be huddled off in a hurry.

Or is the above intended to extract 'a pound of flesh' having a personal vendetta!? Certainly not expected from a person  who is holding a divination site or a schoolteacher.

A govenment status is different; again Jyotish is different.

If one is still laughing  then surely Dr. B.V.Raman should be laughed at too for using his own ayanamsa.

RishiRahul

Anyone laughing at the sincerity and study worth of Dr. B.V. Raman in Jyotish or astrolgy??!

[Rohiniranjan]

[quote="RishiRahul"][quote="Nechi"]Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_national_calendar

Regarding your second question ........? (I am still laughing :smt003)[/quote]




A very mean comment to make, with the animation showing the intention.

The above is a serious discussion of ayanamsa in Jyotish, which cannot be huddled off in a hurry.

Or is the above intended to extract 'a pound of flesh' having a personal vendetta!? Certainly not expected from a person  who is holding a divination site or a schoolteacher.

A govenment status is different; again Jyotish is different.

If one is still laughing :smt003  then surely Dr. B.V.Raman should be laughed at too for using his own ayanamsa.

RishiRahul

Anyone laughing at the sincerity and study worth of Dr. B.V. Raman in Jyotish or astrolgy??![/quote]

Dear Rishi,

As far as ayanamsha is concerned, the calendar reform committee had to pick some value because the indian calendars and panchaang makers were all over the map, each using their own date and so on. I believe ther was a conference in Poona where several dozen panchaang makers (not jyotishis mind you, although some of them may have been) collected and by some form of consensus picked the Chitra ayanamsha (very close to what Lahiri used).

This is often utilized to justify lahiri ayanamsha but the following points need to be considered:

The aim of the conference was not to figure out which was the most accurate ayanamsha based on Jyotish considerations, but to get ONE figure that would reduce the variations that were all over the place between panchaang makers.

Not all panchaang makers who gave their wise opinion or vote were jyotishis, although they may have been familiar with the indian calendar and karmakandi type matters (pooja etc). There was no requirement for anyone to demonstrate jyotish-based evidence to justify ayanamsha.

Ironically, even N.C. Lahiri the Calcutta-based astrophysicist/mathematician was NOT a jyotishi. His main aim was to get the panchaang and calendars get uniform and accurate.

The sidereal Aries zero, is not an identifiable area in the skies and not marked by a star or star cluster. That is why Spica (chitra) was chosen because it was close to end of virgo. This could be a happenstance, a coincidence. People do not realize that and start beating the drum based on what they hear superficially.

Now against that backdrop, strange as it may sound, jyotish is not a black and white discipline where a certain combination would ALWAYS work in a predictable manner. This complicates and makes it even more difficult to pin down the accurate ayanamsha based on events or dashas or vargas, an approach used by some jyotishis. The evidence overall is rather patchy, sketchy and not irrefutable, overall. Anyone who seriously looks into the ayanamsha quandry with charts etc will soon see how much interpretive overlap there is in jyotish and how it can make it extra difficult to pick one ayanamsha. In general the tendency had been for individuals to pick their own or a few charts and if most things fit, they go with that one. Which is fine but that is not the same as making a mountain of evidence of that mole-hill. People who want to make strong claims should follow the documentation and rigour shown by researchers like Gauquelins. I am not blaming anyone! Jyotishis are doing the best they can generally with their poor background in research methodology and statistics etc and their writing and claims demonstrate their poor understanding and lack of a cautious approach towards research. This is a serious deficiency and we should all be aware of it and not try to oversell our conclusions based on little experimentation.

I would be wary of accepting any ayanamsha value just based on an unofficial and small sampling of what jyotishis actually use and certainly not what jyotish-challenged Government of India thinks or endorses and certainly not based on a bunch of panchaang makers with varying backgrounds and expertise in predictive jyotish or their deliberations from a conference where gross things such as getting the calendar to start on the same date was the primary aim.

These very panchaang makers, or at least some of those, perhaps many were till then producing panchaangs where the planetary longitudes and lunar longitudes were all over the place. The very reason why I very quickly learned to rely on Raphael's ephemeris and then Lahiri's ephemeris (not necessarily his ayanamsha!), primarily because the values were close and Raphael was beyond a poor student's budget!

Speaking of government of India, please read what KN Rao has written about Nehrus and other indian leaders (who made this government of India some of us are paying hommage to!) who were publicly anti astrology, though privately used astrological services. I would hardly rely on such hypocrites to tell me which ayanamsha to use based on their endorsement or blessing ;-)

RR