Is 11th house the house of astrology?

[Kara Nari]

I read in a Jyotish book that when a person has AtmaKaraka connected with 11th house in D-24, his soul is connected with learning astrology.

I just wander why 11th house? In Western astrology 11th house is the house of astrology, but I thought in vedic astrology it was 8th...?

[arian_1c]

Hi there,
u always come out with the intriguing questions...thankfully

Education and learning is seen from D-24 (Siddhamsa or Vedabahvamsa or Chaturvimsamsa). In D-24 Strength of Lagna and 5th  suggests a brilliant student, while the weakness would suggest a mediocre student. Influences on the 4th house often suggest the subjects one would be good at.

what it is the association with the 11th house though, i am not so sure about.....
i am sure we can have a good discussion abt it though...

regards to all
sahil

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear KN,

The charakaraka scheme is based on the premise that the degrees of planets in a human horoscope represent the soul's journey. The most advanced planet in a sign represents the types of experiences that have come often through lifetimes and represent the agenda and journey of the soul! AK represents the areas that come naturally to one, almost easy territory and that describe the 'easy path' if the soul decides to take a vacation in this lifetime!

The above is not based on any classic so please do not ask me for citations. Just trust me when I say that a very old soul told me what I shared with you.

Often confused for education, the chaturvimshamsha varga (V24) is really about knowledge that you have the potential to gain in this lifetime. Sure ayanamshas etc get in the way but that affects all vargas particularly if your planets are near the cusps.

Many years ago Sanjay Rath posted in one of the jyotish forums that when atmakaraka is associated with the 11th house (he did not say which varga but everyone assumed the rashi or V1, D1) and indeed in many horoscopes of jyotishis this indeed works out. I made the mistake of quoting him on the same jyotish list recently a couple of years ago and Mr. KN Rao really took it upon himself to refute that and gave some examples from Nehru clan who had the combination but were not astrologers. And all that time no statement was made by me that this is the only combination that makes one a jyotishi! So, there you go!

Jyotishi deals with another person right across from him/her and therefore the 11th represents the fifth house of the nativity/client. Fifth is the house that is associated with remedies (12th from 6th and hence removal of illness/enemies etc) and it represents the house of mantra-siddhi, the best remedies always as we know and it represents the house of creativity and future (children) and future KARMA. So it makes sense that the indicator of soul  and soul's purpose in this lifetime (AK) is associated with the 11th house! The D-24 makes logical sense (knowledge and so on) but you will have to test it on the benchmark of life!

RR

<editdate 2007-02-23> Wow! Silly me! I never noticed or utilized this feature of this fantastic board before! One can add to earlier posted messages and make them more informative! I must use that more often -- as must you all!!

What is Atmakaraka? Leaving aside all the smoke and mirrors analogies we have heard, tried and wondered where we went wrong (or perhaps the theories did!) even as elders were shaking their venerable heads as we raced in the field, played in the snow and often without helmets (SNOW belt inner joke! Sorry!!) but seriously, what is it that the leader of the pack, the most advanced planet, in a horoscope, no rashis barred really indicate?

If you notice and ponder, regardless of whether you use the 7 planet system or 8 planet system or the one with nodes or the one without the head and tail (eerily reminding one of rahu and ketu, the dragon's head and tail for tropical astrologers) the range is bounded by atmakaraka on one end (leading) and the darakaraka/kalatrakaraka/spousekaraka at the other end (trailing). Sure it is natural to cry REBELLION if you are of that mien and shut down this puritanical concept and so on, but leaving aside the immediate/recent societal ambience let us see what the symbols mean.

The horoscope and the experience it represents really and primarily lies between the last birth and the next death! In other words the current lifetime!

When we are born, we bring the past experiences of the soul (past karma) into this reality and when we leave, die, we leave behind the footprints of those karmas plus what we did in this lifetime. In some ways we are talking about generations. We come from the earlier one and we leave behind the next! The ninth house (lineage) the fifth house (progeny) thus are in tune with this picture I am proposing. Without the darakaraka meeting at some point, at some level with the atmakaraka, the karmas will not be transmitted, the genes will not be transmitted!

Thus, the atmakarka is what we bring into this life and the darakaraka is what we leave behind, that we pass on. Only through these two karkas working harmoniously, even if not amicably -- the karmic chain continues.

All this smacks of destiny and its mystical milieu! Be patient, I have a point and I am getting to it, oh impatient ones!

No offence intended to anyone but useful astrological advice, though many may not admit, has to do with more than just the astro-logic, the left brained technical shop we all get sucked into from time to time, just because it seems normal, like regular life, and is warm, comforting and predictable! So was daycare and before that mother's lap and womb for many of us! We have grown up since those days!

Atmakaraka has the ability to connect with past experiences, accumulated over lifetimes, it is our source and resource for drawing upon the vast Creation, the total creation with its newtonian and quantum layers if indeed there are such layers!

An astrologer, a successful astrologer must be able to draw upon and gain from those experiences, to tap into and bring those into this reality. When the atmakaraka is associated with the house of gains, the house of influx, the house through which reception is possible and even decreed in the astrological sense, one has the ability to tap into those immense bodies of knowledge and experience that make others wonder at times: Where did this person learn so much, so widely from? The answer is obvious! Not this lifetime alone, particularly when this lifetime had been just ordinary.

The basic hypothesis, the basic logic, if you will permit it to be called that has been presented.

Enjoy!

RR

[quote="Kara Nari"]I read in a Jyotish book that when a person has AtmaKaraka connected with 11th house in D-24, his soul is connected with learning astrology.

I just wander why 11th house? In Western astrology 11th house is the house of astrology, but I thought in vedic astrology it was 8th...? :smt009[/quote]

[Milind]

Apart from 11th House, 5th, 2nd and 8th houses are very important. Secondly, Mercury, Saturn and Neptune should be well placed. Neptune helps in Intuition while Saturn and Mercury are required for Analysis and Prediction.

Relations between Saturn and Mercury are very important.

[ChanDubai]

Hi Milind,

very interesting!. What is ur analysis for below configuration with regard to Saturn, and Mercury and their Strengths/weaknesses, and effects on the native in life? positive or negetive? &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;

Aries Ascendant

Guru+Sukra in 11th House HL-Saturn

Mercury in 10th house Retro HL- Saturn. ALONG with SUN and MOON.

Saturn in 3rd House Retro HL-Mercury! aspected by Mars from 9th House..

Your readings are highly appreciated

Regards

ChanDubai
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;

Apart from 11th House, 5th, 2nd and 8th houses are very important. Secondly, Mercury, Saturn and Neptune should be well placed. Neptune helps in Intuition while Saturn and Mercury are required for Analysis and Prediction.

Relations between Saturn and Mercury are very important.

[Milind]

In your case, it will be more of Intuition based Readings you will Predict. In other words, your Predictions (What you Predict about others) will be based on your Intuition.

Reason - Lord of 5th House Sun (Karka of Aatma), is in Conjuct with Moon (Karaka of Mind) helped by Mercury. Secondly, Sun+Mercury is Budhaditya Yog, which Excels Native in Analytical Powers.

Jupiter+Venus in any House in any Sign make Native to learn Ancient Scripts or atleast Develop Interest in it. In your case, Jupiter is Lord of Dharma Sthan (9th House) and Moksha Sthan (12th House), that too in a Air Sign which is Good for Saadhna as well as Astrological Predictions.

Saturn and Mercury doing Parivartan Yoga in 3rd and 10th House, which is again Good for Astrological Study and Prediction.

But I warn you not to tell Bad things (In a Straight Forward Way) as it will bring Problem to you and others.

Recite Gayatri Mantra (Or your Guru Mantra) atleast 108 everyday and Vishnu Aaradhana to Fine Tune the Mind.

God Bless You !!!

[ChanDubai]

Hi Milind,

Glad to read your analysis and thank you for your quick response..

Actually i got into this Astrology, i would say accedently when my wife left me with unborne baby and when i had all these mental/financial truama.

Yes i do get LOT of Intuitions about myself and others as well and as u righlty said all my Pridections just come to my mind when i think myself and when i am giving any sort of advise or my opinion to others...

Why am i get lazy? i get lot of intuition that, i will be a successful Businessman and i will be successful in whatever i do BUT crux is i don't have any consistancy in my work and suddenly my mood gets change and things go here and there Why?

I do have lot of Ideas and dreams But so far not able to fructify with my efforts and not tasted success so far despite my sincere efforts. due to this i get angry, loose my temper Why is it happening?

I want to be a successful Businessman First i need loving and caring wife and i need all my family with me. Wealth name and fame then think of &nbsp;these spiritual/Astrology etc.

I want to enjoy all these materialistic world then i would be happy to serve people
&nbsp;
Does this combination/Yogas indicate any Wealth/Money? Atleast from now onwards?

Here's my details for your complete study.....
DOB: 10th Feb 1975
TOB: 10:47 AM
POB: Nargund, Gadag Karnataka

Present MD: Guru AD: Guru PD: Rahu Till May 07

Appreciate your feeedback.

Thanks for your time again..

Regards



&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;

In your case, it will be more of Intuition based Readings you will Predict. In other words, your Predictions (What you Predict about others) will be based on your Intuition.

Reason - Lord of 5th House Sun (Karka of Aatma), is in Conjuct with Moon (Karaka of Mind) helped by Mercury. Secondly, Sun+Mercury is Budhaditya Yog, which Excels Native in Analytical Powers.

Jupiter+Venus in any House in any Sign make Native to learn Ancient Scripts or atleast Develop Interest in it. In your case, Jupiter is Lord of Dharma Sthan (9th House) and Moksha Sthan (12th House), that too in a Air Sign which is Good for Saadhna as well as Astrological Predictions.

Saturn and Mercury doing Parivartan Yoga in 3rd and 10th House, which is again Good for Astrological Study and Prediction.

But I warn you not to tell Bad things (In a Straight Forward Way) as it will bring Problem to you and others.

Recite Gayatri Mantra (Or your Guru Mantra) atleast 108 everyday and Vishnu Aaradhana to Fine Tune the Mind.

God Bless You !!!

[Rohiniranjan]

Milind,

I am not going to speculate about Neptune which is difficult to talk about in the jyotish framework and since we are talking atmakaraka and D24/V24 I will leave that out of consideration given the eclectic (level-wise) mix on this forum!

I have nothing against mercury or saturn or sun or mars or venus or jupiter and even rahu and ketu on occasion which have led many a jyotishi by their hand to their mission in life (even though, rightly KN Rao mocks at that term used so lightly by jyotishis and others who should know better!)!

However, if we begin pulling in so many planets then we run into a problem. We reduce the 'specificity' of the technique or rule! In other words, more charts would begin to fit the framework and the rule may be rendered useless for predictive purposes.

Narasimha Rao has given a good example of that related to venus in his book on integrating system of jyotish. And his example used ONE planet but too many house placements!

Now, mind you -- it may indeed be the case that many planets DO get involved in making one an astrologer and this would be perfectly fine because it would address and confirm my very core belief, namely: ANYONE CAN BECOME AN ASTROLOGER AND ANYONE CAN LEARN ASTROLOGY!

They may not become the best predictors or prognosticators of the calibre of Prof. Raman or his illustrious daughter or of Alan Leo or Sepharial or even Cheiro or Karveji etc etc -- but they can still call themselves astrologers, just as many of us here and elsewhere can, proudly and yet with the gratefulness in heart which we truly feel within our hearts and souls as we lie down each or most nights and thank Almighty for bringing us to the brink of this Ganges named Astrology!

That obseience expressed (sp?) the association of atmakaraka with 11th I have felt must have a personal significance (addendum to earlier post). The nature of the personal significance, the sense of personal gain (11th) has to do with the planet that serves as the atmakarka (the START button on the left lower corner of this operating system we have acquired that is also called lifeplan or simply this lifetime between the last birth and the next death!).

When we go and click on the atmakaraka, it shows us the primary options that our current operating system brought to us in this lifetime. And if astrology is not helping us astrologers gain what we want to gain from it then why are we even engaged in it?

The gain does not have to be monetary but does not exclude the monetary gain aspect (hopefully just a few!).

Atmakaraka associated with 11 will show or underline that the sense of gain would have to be there. The planet that becomes atmakarka must then be studied to figure out and analyse what that GAIN would entail or represent for the individual. If the 'light' of the planet is tainted or clouded (as per standard jyotish considerations) then the perception of what can lead to the gain will be clouded or tainted too. THIS is the reason why jyotishis are not receommended to look at their own charts and figure out a path for themselves and the same reason why doctors are not recommended to treat themselves or do surgery on their close relatives! Does not mean that it cannot be done, or has not been done, successfully.

To those for whom this posting is not making any sense or sounding like a 'rambling', it was nice knowing you -- but for those to whom this is making some sense or even more, welcome to the 'restore' point as windows users must be familiar with -- particularly those who have experienced a few fatal o.s. crash or two!

RR

[quote="Milind"]Apart from 11th House, 5th, 2nd and 8th houses are very important. Secondly, Mercury, Saturn and Neptune should be well placed. Neptune helps in Intuition while Saturn and Mercury are required for Analysis and Prediction.

Relations between Saturn and Mercury are very important.[/quote]

[Phantom]

krishnamurti has deduced all charts into a simple concept called sublord concept

if sublord of 4th cusp is a benefic to a person's chart and is well placed, education will be bright and student will farewell

[Rohiniranjan]

You make these statements as if these concepts work 100% of times. They simply don't.

If you are convinced otherwise, that is fine, but all astrological concepts should be examined critically. It is not some devotional practice :-)

RR

[quote="Phantom"]krishnamurti has deduced all charts into a simple concept called sublord concept

if sublord of 4th cusp is a benefic to a person's chart and is well placed, education will be bright and student will farewell[/quote]