Vimshottari Timings for Planets of Mixed Attributes

[projenator]

I get 22:35:37 when I offset Lahiri by 56 min 7 sec while RRji's offset was 57 min 55 sec to be precise, he was okay with using 58 min for practical purposes. I checked out Vinayji's website for the Kundalee software. I am going to download, install and check it out. The installation process is complex and tricky, so i have to be very careful, I guess.

[Vinay Jha]

I get 22:35:37 when I offset Lahiri by 56 min 7 sec while RRji's offset was 57 min 55 sec to be precise

I earlier said "projenator got Ayanamsa of  22-33-44.35 for his own chart as per Rohiniranjanji's value, which is marginally different from 22:35:37 for projenator's birthday according to the traditional method which I have found to work best."

Now projenator  informs me that Rohiniranjanji's ayanamsha offset was 1':48'' more negative than what projenator used. Thus projenator's value will decrease to 22:31:56.35 if Rohiniranjanji's values are used, in comparison to siddhantic value of  22:35:37 for projenator's birthtime. The difference is of 3':40''.56  , which is equal to 59 years'  accumulated difference between annual shifts in physical (Drikpakshiya) and siddhantic (Saurpakshiya) ayanamshas, which is 54'' - 50''.253 = 3''.747 per year, and therefore nearly 221'' in 59 years.

Therefore, Rohiniranjanji uses siddhantic ayanamsha of (1973-59 =) 1914, in which annual shifts of physical astronomy was added after 1914 instead of siddhantic annual shift. As the annual siddhantic shift was faster, siddhantic value surpassed this hybrid ayanamsha used by Rohiniranjanji by about 221'' in 1973.

I call it hybrid not to belittle anyone, but because theoretically there are only two possible values of ayanamsha, either the canonical siddhantic value, or the annual precession of modern astronomy which parsons lkke Lahiri wrongly believed to be ayanamsha.

My computations above are based upon data about Rohiniranjanji's ayanamsha supplied by projenator, and I do not know whether it is right or wrong, because projenator does not specify for which year Rohiniranjanji said an offset of -57':55'' was applicable. Since Rohiniranjanji's ayanamsha divurged away from siddhantic ayanamsha after 1914, and adopted annual shift of physical astronomy thereafter, Rohiniranjanji's offset must be applicable for entire period following 1914. Therefore, above conclusions are valid.

I do not use this hybrid ayanamsha, and use siddhantic ayanamsha in its purity. We should not make a fuss about differences of few minutes between this hybrid or pure siddhantic ayanamshas, because offsets in true longitudes in planets run into many degrees which are still not being applied.

-VJ

[projenator]

Sorry to have confused you, RRji's offset is 57 min 55 sec, I was just doing goal seek on Jhora to reach the ayanamsa you calculated for my birth time using your method.

[Vinay Jha]

Sorry to have confused you, RRji's offset is 57 min 55 sec, I was just doing goal seek to reach the ayanamsa you calculated for my birth time using your method.

In that case, the year of zero difference between Siddhaantic and Hybrid (RR's) ayanaamshas will be 1944 and not 1914, other inferences remaining unchanged.

-VJ

[projenator]

Projenator rightly remarked that Shri KN Rao works intuitively.
-VJ

If anyone followed K N Rao's prediction of Obama winning the US elections,  there should be absolutely no doubt at all. I read almost every astrologer's  analysis including PVR and some prominent western astrologer's prediction. Almost everyone predicted McCain win but K N Rao and his students stuck to their guns. Even after Obama's birth certificate was found on the internet, he neglected it completely and kept on predicting with the 1 pm birth time. I had my horoscope analyzed by some prominent students of K N Rao and needless to say, they used that simple method of Vimshottari, Chara dasha approach which K N Rao always seems to use when he analyzes any chart on his website or elsewhere and most of their predictions were nowhere near reality and vague, at best, my couple hundred dollars wasted.

[Vinay Jha]

I accepted that Shri KN Rao works intuitively. I knew McCain's horoscope was strong, but I refused to predict his victory because I had an inner feeling that Obama has a high chance of winning. I analyzed Obama's published birth certificate and concluded that it was a fake certificate. I. therefore, kept away from predicting anything. I knew Obama was going to win, but why should I open my mouth in favour of a person who uses/misuses a fake certificate ?

I again accept that Shri KN Rao works intuitively. But his school of astrology is WRONG. He makes a hotch-potch of all sorts of mutually incompatible methods. His wrong eclecticism is GOOD in his able and intuitive hands, because he is blessed by his own horoscope to do wonders, but intuition cannot be taught in classrooms. I hope my words will be taken in good spirit : what I advocate is lucid and logical methodology that must work 100%. There cannot be two different variants of correct methodology in Vedic Astrology. Shri KN Rao's method cannot prove true in ALL cases. What I term Vedic Astrology of ancient sages is perfect for ALL cases : it is 100% canonical without an iota of change by moderns, and it is 100% accurate in predictions if birthtime is correct.

Ganita of Newton/Einstein and Phalita of Parashara is neither science nor astrology ; it is a pseudo-science which works here but not there. Such things are nothing more than gambling.

Real Vedic Astrology is more scientific than modern physical science, provided we remain true to the original sages and do not try to become Rishis by modifying Vedic Astrology. If the old system works 100%, WHY it should be reformed.

Instead of reforming the Vedas and Vedangas, one should reform himself/herself. People driven by Kāma, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Ahamkāra, etc have no right to even study Jyotisha (it is not my personal view, it is mentioned by ancients), leave alone reform it !

-VJ

[astro_scholr]

A sadhu from Kamrup's Kamakhya predicted my lifespan without even looking at my horoscope or asking my birthtime or looking at my palm, and what he said was perfectly in consonance with what I had computed according to rules of Parashara and Jaimini ! Projenator rightly remarked that Shri KN Rao works intuitively. In my talks with Shri KN Rao, I was disappointed to find that he showed no interest in discussing mathematical problems of Vedic Astrology.

Intuition helps, but it is only a paramhamsa sanyasi whose intuition is infallible. Intuition is the inner tuition from God. Shri Rao may be a great intuitive astrologer. In my view Shri Rao's successes are due to certain auspicious yogas in his horoscope. Shri Rao should not be cited in matthers of Ganita Jyotisha, he may be cited in Phalita jyotisa. I am not demeaning Shri Rao. Shri Rao himself never posed as a mathematician.

Ayanamsha used by me is the traditional stuff used by all luminaries from Aryabhatta and Varah Mihir to modern pandits. Why Rohiniranjan should have a negligible difference of 2' is not clear to me. Perhaps Rohiniranjan also uses the traditional Ayanamsha which I have found to be best suited for all astrological purposes. 2' difference in Rohiniranjan's and mine Ayanamshas in the case of  Projenator's chart are perhaps due to Projenator's and not Rohiniranjan's oversight. I request Projenator to inform me how he deduced this ayanamsha.

-VJ

Both Sadhu and K.N.Raoji' predictions are not intuitions. It's called ocult ( in crude language). Here Atma ( the super soul ) is comes for front and talks to elements in air ( Yes, they talk) . This is high point of self realisation and siddhi. there are several yogi's ( like Sridhara Swamiji in south) in the past talked about this and nobody beleived this ( they are branded as witchmasters/hypnotisers).

Couple of common observations  from these yogi's
1. They followed Brahmachari principle (women are kept far away both physically/mentally).
2. Many of them did puja of Maa Durga and Lord Ganesha.
3. They were most of the time kept people away and spent lonely life in meditation. As the time went, they were able to get their athma /soul jagrath/Activated. Athma is most powerful than the human. It has transited several life's and can talk to elements in the air/earth.
4. At this state, their body becomes messanger of the elements in the air. Their prediction looks more of intuitions. But they were mere messangers of the elements ( belonging to forefathers/elders of person in question) to send message across to the person in the way of astro predictions.
5. some sadhu's ( Naga's /Nagori's )beleived that fastest way of making Athma Jagarthi is to drink water/food thru human scull, drink human blood, spread human ashes on their body. This results in person talking to bad elements in the air and gets influence of prethas/pishachas. they may give sometimes good predictions but they are  harmful.

K.N.Raoji did get some activation of Athma and was making predictions based on this principle. this many times goes bang on target/100 % true.
But its the biggest state one can acheive in their life ( a difficult path).

[Vinay Jha]

astro_scholr should not discuss things unrelated to Vimshottari &c here.

He may imagine Shri KN Rao to be a great sadhu and a brahmachari and what not. Shri KN Rao never posed as an expert of Ganita, but some of his admirers hold him to be a criterion of everything under the Sun. Shri KN Rao may be a great personality, but can he or any of his admirers get through the examination of Ganitācharya held by any recognized university ? My intention is not to belittle Shri KN Rao, but to insist that Vedic Jyotisha has a fixed curriculum in universities and no person, however great, has any right to make a mess of it. The topic being discussed above is related to Ganitācharya and Phalitācharya syllabuses in Sanskrit universities and it cannot be decided by vague references to occultism. [ KN Rao or me or anyone else is not greater than Veda and Vedāngas. What some self-proclaimed great personalities of Vedic Astrology are doing to this "occult science" will be clear within a few years. Veda has started reasserting itself after 2000 AD, and all falsehoods and their practitioners will be wiped out within a few decades. ]

Intuition is not every foolish thought from within. It is inner tuition from Collective Consciousness (God) which lies underneath Jugian Collective Unconsciousness. Jung was wrong to believe that Collective Unconsciousness is the source of all science and arts. It is only through tapasyā &c which astro_scholr also mentions that this Unconscious can be overcome and the hidden (occult) things are manifest. But these hidden things are guiding each and every soul, including animals. Even a cat finds its kitten by means of intuition. But only a sadhu uses intuition consciously. Shri K N Rao must have astrological yogas in his birthchart, but he is not a paramhamsa, I know it from my personal encounter with him. He keeps away from logical discussion of problematic issues in Ganita Jyotisha and stubbornly sticks to his biases, and on account of some of his predictions coming true even his wrong views are gaining currency. It is unfortunate. I still believe if Shri KN Rao condescends to look at some points sent to him, he would certainly change many of his views. But he refused to discuss and stuck to his views. His whimsical treatment of canonical rules of Vedic Jyotisha is not a good omen for Vedic Astrology. I went to Patna High Court against an entire department of Jyotisha in a recognized university, charging the faculty to be incompetent in teaching the prescribed syllabus and invited a shāstrārtha, and won the battle after three sessions of pandit-sabhās called by the VC after Hight Court's order. But I do not want to waste my time by going to court against all those persons who are distorting Vedic Jyotisha.

For the time being, let us not discuss unrelated things here. astro_scholr should start a new thread for discussing occultism. I know Vedic Jyotisha cannot be acquired without occult practices. But everything should not be discussed here. The sanctity of a topic should not be violated.

-VJ

[Vinay Jha]

A new topic Faultless Technique of Exact Timing of Events has been posted today. It could not be included here due to a picture file.
-VJ

[sutradhar]

Nice article giving lots of knowledge.
My question is :
as ayanamsa is changing that means we all are using the wrong inputs for predicting. Western believe there will be each planet for each house (looking for vulcan and apollo). We here are just not being able to know which ayanamsa is good and then everynow and then a person comes with his own ayanamsa. This way astrology will always be a guess work bcoz its impossible to know the exact date of epoch be it 285 or 291ad. In recent year so many ayanamsa has cropped up like KP, KP new, shashi, j.n bhasin, raman and the latest kid on the block Khullar.

[RishiRahul]

I had to experiment with all possible values of Ayanāmsha . But now I have no confusion. At present, Ayanāmsha's value at 22:38':44.5'' gives correct results on all fronts of Vedic Astrology (for end of 2008 AD). But there are other problems of more profound nature.

-VJ

Dear Vinayji,

1)Is this ayanamsa given in Jhora in some name? Or is it some other. Presently being in the West, I do not have my tables etc with me.

2)As a help could you mention the deviation from Lahiris?

For example RohiniRanjanji's ayanamsa is a very good good one and it is minus 58 degrees 30 minutes less than Lahiris.

Personally I also experimented with Vishnu Nabhi plane one and I agree with you that it is not very accurate, though it could be theoritically correct.

3)I use N.C. Lairi as the main, in addition to RRji's and B.V.Ramans; and have/had noticed that the dasa starts giving effect from the start of the dasa as per BV. Raman approximately.

4)I have always seen 360 days lunar year and Mean Rahu giving the correct results, and have rejected the other.

May I have comments on item 1, 2, and 3 please.

RishiRahul

[RishiRahul]

Hey Proj,

By how much does RRji's ayanamsa differ from N.C. Lahiri? I thought it was minus 58 degrees 30 seconds.

RishiRahul

[Bhuwan Agrawal]

You have to add 6 degree 32 minutes to Raman's Ayanmsa to get what Vinay Jha Jee has indicated. This I did for 31 Dec 2008 at 0:0 hrs.  JHORA automatically updates it's database to reflect incremental changes going forward based upon sideral time. Currently, I am using it to check whether I can capture proper pratyantar with it. Another experiment that I am doing is to see if it works with KP system.( KP system, I have found very good for transits). Rightnow, one has to use so many dasa systems for check and balances which is very time consuming, because prayantars don't work for transit analysis even if I can capure proper antar dasa( with trial and error )

Vinay Jha Jee has two other factors other then Ayanmsa to be considered, and I am not sure if JHORA does that. Still checking.

[Bhuwan Agrawal]

Correction please READ " 6-minutes 32 seconds" NOT 6-deg 32 minutes. Apologies

[projenator]

Hey Proj,

By how much does RRji's ayanamsa differ from N.C. Lahiri? I thought it was minus 58 degrees 30 seconds.

RishiRahul

minus 58 minutes only, to be very precise it's 57 minutes 55 secs. As far as Vimshottari dasa goes, Vinayji's ayanamsa is lagging Raman by approximately one month and leading RR's ayanamsa by approximately two months.  As you might already be aware, RR ayanamsa leads Lahiri by a little more than a year. I will get back to you in more detail later.