which form is most widely followed?
1. lahiri
2. krishnamurthi
3. raman
or some other?
Ayanamsa
Moderators: eye_of_tiger, shalimar123, RishiRahul
ayanamsha
hi
Lahiri is the 'default' Ayanamsha used by all Vedic Astrologers. The second most common one being 'Raman'. There are actually two Krishnamurti Ayanamsha (Original and New). Another Ayanamsha which is very commonly used by researchers is the Fagan Ayanamsha.
By the way, Placidus is not an Ayanamsha, but a scheme for calculating house positions.
Jyotishi
Lahiri is the 'default' Ayanamsha used by all Vedic Astrologers. The second most common one being 'Raman'. There are actually two Krishnamurti Ayanamsha (Original and New). Another Ayanamsha which is very commonly used by researchers is the Fagan Ayanamsha.
By the way, Placidus is not an Ayanamsha, but a scheme for calculating house positions.
Jyotishi
Re: ayanamsha
jyotishi wrote: By the way, Placidus is not an Ayanamsha, but a scheme for calculating house positions.
Jyotishi
Oh, my bad, my bad. Thanx for the clarification Jyothishi, I thought that was an anymasaha.
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Rohiniranjan
- Posts: 7470
- Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
- Location: N.A.
Ayanamsha: Which is the most popular?
Swetha and others,
The responses to these would always come with 'selection bias'. In other words what people are using we can only know if they tell! On the internet, in many of the forums, relative to the number of people who are members of a forum, only a handful write and talk about the parameters they use. One would tend to think that Lahiri would be a popular ayanamsha mostly based on what those writers write. Mr. KN Rao who has been a strong voice in modern jyotish has written often in favour of Lahiri ayanamsha (Chitra paksha ayanamsha actually). Raman ayanamsha which is 1d27 different from Lahiri also has a strong following. Overall I have heard of nearly 30 different types, with values within a few degrees of Lahiri-Raman. There are also a few very radically different values that have been claimed but not definitively shown to be better, through chart illustrations.
Generally ayanamsha' validity is claimed by proponents based on their accruate portrayal of events and traits in amsha vargas (navamsha etc). Others also try to show the accuracy by the dasha correlation with events. Strangely, more than one value seem to work in a variety of charts. People claim to have researched in thousands of charts. I will not comment further on such claims!
The use of parallax corrected moon and use of savanmana year for dashas (360 day year) also creates variations which make it a very complex exercise to prove a given ayanamsha. Another big problem is that astrological rules are multiple (say for timing of marriage or jobs or children, or accidents etc) so there is always some subjective interpretation involved.
So the discussion and debate continues, the Holy Grail of ayanamsha remains hidden!
RR
The responses to these would always come with 'selection bias'. In other words what people are using we can only know if they tell! On the internet, in many of the forums, relative to the number of people who are members of a forum, only a handful write and talk about the parameters they use. One would tend to think that Lahiri would be a popular ayanamsha mostly based on what those writers write. Mr. KN Rao who has been a strong voice in modern jyotish has written often in favour of Lahiri ayanamsha (Chitra paksha ayanamsha actually). Raman ayanamsha which is 1d27 different from Lahiri also has a strong following. Overall I have heard of nearly 30 different types, with values within a few degrees of Lahiri-Raman. There are also a few very radically different values that have been claimed but not definitively shown to be better, through chart illustrations.
Generally ayanamsha' validity is claimed by proponents based on their accruate portrayal of events and traits in amsha vargas (navamsha etc). Others also try to show the accuracy by the dasha correlation with events. Strangely, more than one value seem to work in a variety of charts. People claim to have researched in thousands of charts. I will not comment further on such claims!
The use of parallax corrected moon and use of savanmana year for dashas (360 day year) also creates variations which make it a very complex exercise to prove a given ayanamsha. Another big problem is that astrological rules are multiple (say for timing of marriage or jobs or children, or accidents etc) so there is always some subjective interpretation involved.
So the discussion and debate continues, the Holy Grail of ayanamsha remains hidden!
RR
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Rohiniranjan
- Posts: 7470
- Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
- Location: N.A.
[quote="swetha"]ok... but i have seen in some vedic softwares there is an option for custom ayanmasa..howdo u do that?
this is nothing but correction of angles rt?[/quote]
No swetha, this allows you to add an offset to standard values and work from there. for instance Parashara's Light allows me to use Raman ayanamsha with a minus 33 minute offset.
RR
this is nothing but correction of angles rt?[/quote]
No swetha, this allows you to add an offset to standard values and work from there. for instance Parashara's Light allows me to use Raman ayanamsha with a minus 33 minute offset.
RR
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alchocoden
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:26 am
Re: Ayanamsa
Hello,swetha wrote:which form is most widely followed?
1. lahiri
2. krishnamurthi
3. raman
or some other?
Actually, if one goes back to the Surya Siddhanta, as with Hipparchus, he will find reference to polar longitude of the stars (that is, the degree of midheaven when a star culminates). Many stars were taken: Spica, Alpherg and possibly Aldebaran.
When using Astrolog32 freeware:
(1) Spica culminates on december 31, 346 at 5:21:19, being at 180° of right ascension and give ayanamsha of 22:58:03.391 on jan. 1, 2000 (Krushna's value).
(2) Interestingly, Aldebaran, at 3h00 in Right Ascension, culminates at 23h39m33s on nov. 10, 280. If we give the value of 16:40 Taurus to the Midheaven (middle of Rohini, by adjusting the Ayanamsha) we get Aldebaran at 15:00:22 Taurus (which is near Fagan's value)...
Etc.
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tarasevens
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:09 pm
- Location: India
Ayanamsa
It is quite confusing for me!
Ive been using Lahiri all this while ....though not for predictive purposes.
I think Raman might be the way to go ... I got stuck once and the 1 deg 26m 26 sec differential that Ramans ayanamsa allowed me, solved the problem. I was looking at a planet in a critical degree and getting nowhere. When I used Ramans Ayanamsa, the planet moved to another rasi and that solved that particular case !
Tara
Ive been using Lahiri all this while ....though not for predictive purposes.
I think Raman might be the way to go ... I got stuck once and the 1 deg 26m 26 sec differential that Ramans ayanamsa allowed me, solved the problem. I was looking at a planet in a critical degree and getting nowhere. When I used Ramans Ayanamsa, the planet moved to another rasi and that solved that particular case !
Tara
Re: ayanamsha
hi swetha,
Its been a while since I stepped in here, lifes been sorta tricky
anyways, lets talk abt ayanamsha
I few years ago I was developing a vedic astrology s/w. I used the algorithms by a swedish observatory to calculate planetary positions. The positions were quite accurate, but as per western standards. This is where ayanamsha comes in and this may help u differentiate amongst the two systems as well.
You c west.. system recognises a fixes zodiac whereas vedic system recognises a movable one. At any given time the difference b/w the two zodiacs is called ayanamsha.
To keep things simple I would state 2 facts in simplistic manner:
1. According to many scholars the difference of the two zodiacs increases by 50.26 celestial seconds every year, and
2. Both the moving and fixed zodiac co-incided in the year 285 A.D., i.e. the ayanamsha in that year was 0 degrees...zilch
So, for any given year(in general), the ayanamsha can be calculated by ayan= 50.26 * (year - 285)
for instance, the upcoming year wud get us, ayan= 50.26 * (2007-285) = 86547.72 celestial seconds, if u convert that,
u get approx. 24 degrees and a few mins...
Now, the important thing
when u see all these different ayanamshas, the only difference is that they probably change either of the above two values
either they increase or decrease the difference from 50.26 to whatever their research has given them
or their research shows that it wasn't the year 285 when the two zodiacs overlapped
or both of them.
So, when some softwares ask for custom ayanamsha, they expect us to be scholars with big research observatories who can probably tell when both the systems overlapped or what is the difference in the systems.
Simply speaking you change either of the two values and you create a new ayanamsha. there are thousands of ayanamshas out there, but Lahiri is the most popular because people don't take the pain of giving any importance to it. I guess they are happy with the way things are. Hey, I am not complaining, merely stating that the reason Lahiri is the most popular is not because it is the most accurate but because it been used for a while now....
I hope that was some help
and remember if decide to put this post somewhere else, don't forget to mention the source. It took me a while to write this
cheers
sahil (arian_1c)
P.S. Its good to be back
Its been a while since I stepped in here, lifes been sorta tricky
anyways, lets talk abt ayanamsha
I few years ago I was developing a vedic astrology s/w. I used the algorithms by a swedish observatory to calculate planetary positions. The positions were quite accurate, but as per western standards. This is where ayanamsha comes in and this may help u differentiate amongst the two systems as well.
You c west.. system recognises a fixes zodiac whereas vedic system recognises a movable one. At any given time the difference b/w the two zodiacs is called ayanamsha.
To keep things simple I would state 2 facts in simplistic manner:
1. According to many scholars the difference of the two zodiacs increases by 50.26 celestial seconds every year, and
2. Both the moving and fixed zodiac co-incided in the year 285 A.D., i.e. the ayanamsha in that year was 0 degrees...zilch
So, for any given year(in general), the ayanamsha can be calculated by ayan= 50.26 * (year - 285)
for instance, the upcoming year wud get us, ayan= 50.26 * (2007-285) = 86547.72 celestial seconds, if u convert that,
u get approx. 24 degrees and a few mins...
Now, the important thing
when u see all these different ayanamshas, the only difference is that they probably change either of the above two values
either they increase or decrease the difference from 50.26 to whatever their research has given them
or their research shows that it wasn't the year 285 when the two zodiacs overlapped
or both of them.
So, when some softwares ask for custom ayanamsha, they expect us to be scholars with big research observatories who can probably tell when both the systems overlapped or what is the difference in the systems.
Simply speaking you change either of the two values and you create a new ayanamsha. there are thousands of ayanamshas out there, but Lahiri is the most popular because people don't take the pain of giving any importance to it. I guess they are happy with the way things are. Hey, I am not complaining, merely stating that the reason Lahiri is the most popular is not because it is the most accurate but because it been used for a while now....
I hope that was some help
and remember if decide to put this post somewhere else, don't forget to mention the source. It took me a while to write this
cheers
sahil (arian_1c)
P.S. Its good to be back
-
Rohiniranjan
- Posts: 7470
- Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:11 pm
- Location: N.A.
Re: ayanamsha
Dear Arian,
A good book I would recommend to you would be Usha Sashi's mathematical calculations in astrology. It is a blue cover book (please google to confirm if the exact title is a bit different)
In it you will learn a lot about ayanamsha and also learn that the annual rate of precession is not a constant but an ever slower variation over time.
In older ephemeris a fixed ayanamsha was used of the value 54" per year. Many software use that when calculating yukteshwar ayanamsha!
It is probably a wrong value and a wrong concept to think that the rate of annual precession is constant. Raman used the kinda sort of average value of 50.3... in his book for simplicity but even that is not an exact value.
In short term it all means nothing but over time it piles up quite a bit particularly if you are using finer vargas and not just rashi, unless your planet happens to land on the cusp and then even micro differences can change the sign, etc.
Lahiri, is used commonly because a group of ephemeris makers convened and decided to use it more for consistency rather than accuracy! As in, there was no double blind testing of different ayanamshas and lahiri was picked!
Raman ayanamsha if you have really done your math is nothing but Yukteshwara ayanamsha with the annual rate of precession closer to the modern value of 50.3 as opposed to 54" per year as some software use!
How it all came about, who knows?
I have been getting good results with Raman -33' (between L and R) and using the savanmana for vimshottari!
Happy New Year!
RR
[quote="arian_1c"]hi swetha,
Its been a while since I stepped in here, lifes been sorta tricky
anyways, lets talk abt ayanamsha
I few years ago I was developing a vedic astrology s/w. I used the algorithms by a swedish observatory to calculate planetary positions. The positions were quite accurate, but as per western standards. This is where ayanamsha comes in and this may help u differentiate amongst the two systems as well.
You c west.. system recognises a fixes zodiac whereas vedic system recognises a movable one. At any given time the difference b/w the two zodiacs is called ayanamsha.
To keep things simple I would state 2 facts in simplistic manner:
1. According to many scholars the difference of the two zodiacs increases by 50.26 celestial seconds every year, and
2. Both the moving and fixed zodiac co-incided in the year 285 A.D., i.e. the ayanamsha in that year was 0 degrees...zilch
So, for any given year(in general), the ayanamsha can be calculated by ayan= 50.26 * (year - 285)
for instance, the upcoming year wud get us, ayan= 50.26 * (2007-285) = 86547.72 celestial seconds, if u convert that,
u get approx. 24 degrees and a few mins...
Now, the important thing
when u see all these different ayanamshas, the only difference is that they probably change either of the above two values
either they increase or decrease the difference from 50.26 to whatever their research has given them
or their research shows that it wasn't the year 285 when the two zodiacs overlapped
or both of them.
So, when some softwares ask for custom ayanamsha, they expect us to be scholars with big research observatories who can probably tell when both the systems overlapped or what is the difference in the systems.
Simply speaking you change either of the two values and you create a new ayanamsha. there are thousands of ayanamshas out there, but Lahiri is the most popular because people don't take the pain of giving any importance to it. I guess they are happy with the way things are. Hey, I am not complaining, merely stating that the reason Lahiri is the most popular is not because it is the most accurate but because it been used for a while now....
I hope that was some help
and remember if decide to put this post somewhere else, don't forget to mention the source. It took me a while to write this
cheers
sahil (arian_1c)
P.S. Its good to be back[/quote]
A good book I would recommend to you would be Usha Sashi's mathematical calculations in astrology. It is a blue cover book (please google to confirm if the exact title is a bit different)
In it you will learn a lot about ayanamsha and also learn that the annual rate of precession is not a constant but an ever slower variation over time.
In older ephemeris a fixed ayanamsha was used of the value 54" per year. Many software use that when calculating yukteshwar ayanamsha!
It is probably a wrong value and a wrong concept to think that the rate of annual precession is constant. Raman used the kinda sort of average value of 50.3... in his book for simplicity but even that is not an exact value.
In short term it all means nothing but over time it piles up quite a bit particularly if you are using finer vargas and not just rashi, unless your planet happens to land on the cusp and then even micro differences can change the sign, etc.
Lahiri, is used commonly because a group of ephemeris makers convened and decided to use it more for consistency rather than accuracy! As in, there was no double blind testing of different ayanamshas and lahiri was picked!
Raman ayanamsha if you have really done your math is nothing but Yukteshwara ayanamsha with the annual rate of precession closer to the modern value of 50.3 as opposed to 54" per year as some software use!
How it all came about, who knows?
I have been getting good results with Raman -33' (between L and R) and using the savanmana for vimshottari!
Happy New Year!
RR
[quote="arian_1c"]hi swetha,
Its been a while since I stepped in here, lifes been sorta tricky
anyways, lets talk abt ayanamsha
I few years ago I was developing a vedic astrology s/w. I used the algorithms by a swedish observatory to calculate planetary positions. The positions were quite accurate, but as per western standards. This is where ayanamsha comes in and this may help u differentiate amongst the two systems as well.
You c west.. system recognises a fixes zodiac whereas vedic system recognises a movable one. At any given time the difference b/w the two zodiacs is called ayanamsha.
To keep things simple I would state 2 facts in simplistic manner:
1. According to many scholars the difference of the two zodiacs increases by 50.26 celestial seconds every year, and
2. Both the moving and fixed zodiac co-incided in the year 285 A.D., i.e. the ayanamsha in that year was 0 degrees...zilch
So, for any given year(in general), the ayanamsha can be calculated by ayan= 50.26 * (year - 285)
for instance, the upcoming year wud get us, ayan= 50.26 * (2007-285) = 86547.72 celestial seconds, if u convert that,
u get approx. 24 degrees and a few mins...
Now, the important thing
when u see all these different ayanamshas, the only difference is that they probably change either of the above two values
either they increase or decrease the difference from 50.26 to whatever their research has given them
or their research shows that it wasn't the year 285 when the two zodiacs overlapped
or both of them.
So, when some softwares ask for custom ayanamsha, they expect us to be scholars with big research observatories who can probably tell when both the systems overlapped or what is the difference in the systems.
Simply speaking you change either of the two values and you create a new ayanamsha. there are thousands of ayanamshas out there, but Lahiri is the most popular because people don't take the pain of giving any importance to it. I guess they are happy with the way things are. Hey, I am not complaining, merely stating that the reason Lahiri is the most popular is not because it is the most accurate but because it been used for a while now....
I hope that was some help
and remember if decide to put this post somewhere else, don't forget to mention the source. It took me a while to write this
cheers
sahil (arian_1c)
P.S. Its good to be back[/quote]
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