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Rohiniranjan
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:21 am

RishiRahul wrote: Dear Dada,

I wonder why Moon would be old?

Me too patiently waiting for Panditji's explanation of 'the timely advise from an older person.
Why couldn't the advisor be of same age or even younger?!

RishiRahul
Rishi

Why did MA choose to send to 'TA-chela' Her vahan in a more manageable form? A big CAT would have caused problems! And why through all these LEOs that surround...! And, why...?

And so many other questions that keep us alive!

Why moon? I think because it has captured and demonstrated the phenomenon of the cycle of ages and aging as it waxes and wanes, repeatedly...!

When I was a child, I had this bad habit of reading a lot and anything that I could find! Including newspapers and articles and thank god that when I was growing up back in the 60s-70s there was no INTERNET or GOOGLE! For, I certainly would not have been able to acquire any of the university degrees that I did manage to with MA's blessings!

One drama was about a couple which introduced me to the terms i(r)da and pingala nadis and though a silly drama (even to me back then as I read the script for the first time!), there was a subliminal message involved! Back then, I had no clue what subliminal meant and perhaps back in the early 1960's the term had even not been coined!

MOON, just like MOTHER, is right there, constantly, often in OUR FACE, growing and diminishing, its constant presence is so commonplace that we fail to learn from HER constantly repeating message!

Is moon young? Is MA OLD?? WHAT is MA's TRUE age, really, Rishirahul...?

Light and Love!
Rohiniranjan
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Post by RishiRahul » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:57 am

Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote: Dear Dada,

I wonder why Moon would be old?

Me too patiently waiting for Panditji's explanation of 'the timely advise from an older person.
Why couldn't the advisor be of same age or even younger?!

RishiRahul
Rishi

Why did MA choose to send to 'TA-chela' Her vahan in a more manageable form? A big CAT would have caused problems! And why through all these LEOs that surround...! And, why...?

And so many other questions that keep us alive!

Why moon? I think because it has captured and demonstrated the phenomenon of the cycle of ages and aging as it waxes and wanes, repeatedly...!

When I was a child, I had this bad habit of reading a lot and anything that I could find! Including newspapers and articles and thank god that when I was growing up back in the 60s-70s there was no INTERNET or GOOGLE! For, I certainly would not have been able to acquire any of the university degrees that I did manage to with MA's blessings!

One drama was about a couple which introduced me to the terms i(r)da and pingala nadis and though a silly drama (even to me back then as I read the script for the first time!), there was a subliminal message involved! Back then, I had no clue what subliminal meant and perhaps back in the early 1960's the term had even not been coined!

MOON, just like MOTHER, is right there, constantly, often in OUR FACE, growing and diminishing, its constant presence is so commonplace that we fail to learn from HER constantly repeating message!

Is moon young? Is MA OLD?? WHAT is MA's TRUE age, really, Rishirahul...?

Light and Love!

Dear Dada,

I understand that logically, because moon & Ma cannot be young, the repeated cycles of moon etc.

Moons maturation age is 24, while actual age is 70 years.

But moon in the 7th. generally gives an early marriage, unless afflicted.
Moon vimshottari dasa does not give late results.
Which is probably due to moon's maturation age.

But then, I have always wondered where the 'use' of the late age of moon is applied?

Rishi
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:53 am

RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote: Dear Dada,

I wonder why Moon would be old?

Me too patiently waiting for Panditji's explanation of 'the timely advise from an older person.
Why couldn't the advisor be of same age or even younger?!

RishiRahul
Rishi

Why did MA choose to send to 'TA-chela' Her vahan in a more manageable form? A big CAT would have caused problems! And why through all these LEOs that surround...! And, why...?

And so many other questions that keep us alive!

Why moon? I think because it has captured and demonstrated the phenomenon of the cycle of ages and aging as it waxes and wanes, repeatedly...!

When I was a child, I had this bad habit of reading a lot and anything that I could find! Including newspapers and articles and thank god that when I was growing up back in the 60s-70s there was no INTERNET or GOOGLE! For, I certainly would not have been able to acquire any of the university degrees that I did manage to with MA's blessings!

One drama was about a couple which introduced me to the terms i(r)da and pingala nadis and though a silly drama (even to me back then as I read the script for the first time!), there was a subliminal message involved! Back then, I had no clue what subliminal meant and perhaps back in the early 1960's the term had even not been coined!

MOON, just like MOTHER, is right there, constantly, often in OUR FACE, growing and diminishing, its constant presence is so commonplace that we fail to learn from HER constantly repeating message!

Is moon young? Is MA OLD?? WHAT is MA's TRUE age, really, Rishirahul...?

Light and Love!

Dear Dada,

I understand that logically, because moon & Ma cannot be young, the repeated cycles of moon etc.

Moons maturation age is 24, while actual age is 70 years.

But moon in the 7th. generally gives an early marriage, unless afflicted.
Moon vimshottari dasa does not give late results.
Which is probably due to moon's maturation age.

But then, I have always wondered where the 'use' of the late age of moon is applied?

Rishi

Rishi,

I was hoping that there would be other inputs, by now but it seems no 'jiyaalas' exist!

I have always -- perhaps instinctively taken the *year of* maturation as you call it, as 'initiation'! The 'maturation' always seemed to arise during the PERIOD of realization which you call 'actual age' ;-)

ONLY you know and can understand why you picked the explanation that you did! Or the question that arose in your mind...!

Light and Love,
Rohiniranjan
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Post by RishiRahul » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:54 pm

Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote:
Rohiniranjan wrote:
RishiRahul wrote: Dear Dada,

I wonder why Moon would be old?

Me too patiently waiting for Panditji's explanation of 'the timely advise from an older person.
Why couldn't the advisor be of same age or even younger?!

RishiRahul
Rishi

Why did MA choose to send to 'TA-chela' Her vahan in a more manageable form? A big CAT would have caused problems! And why through all these LEOs that surround...! And, why...?

And so many other questions that keep us alive!

Why moon? I think because it has captured and demonstrated the phenomenon of the cycle of ages and aging as it waxes and wanes, repeatedly...!

When I was a child, I had this bad habit of reading a lot and anything that I could find! Including newspapers and articles and thank god that when I was growing up back in the 60s-70s there was no INTERNET or GOOGLE! For, I certainly would not have been able to acquire any of the university degrees that I did manage to with MA's blessings!

One drama was about a couple which introduced me to the terms i(r)da and pingala nadis and though a silly drama (even to me back then as I read the script for the first time!), there was a subliminal message involved! Back then, I had no clue what subliminal meant and perhaps back in the early 1960's the term had even not been coined!

MOON, just like MOTHER, is right there, constantly, often in OUR FACE, growing and diminishing, its constant presence is so commonplace that we fail to learn from HER constantly repeating message!

Is moon young? Is MA OLD?? WHAT is MA's TRUE age, really, Rishirahul...?

Light and Love!

Dear Dada,

I understand that logically, because moon & Ma cannot be young, the repeated cycles of moon etc.

Moons maturation age is 24, while actual age is 70 years.

But moon in the 7th. generally gives an early marriage, unless afflicted.
Moon vimshottari dasa does not give late results.
Which is probably due to moon's maturation age.

But then, I have always wondered where the 'use' of the late age of moon is applied?

Rishi

Rishi,

I was hoping that there would be other inputs, by now but it seems no 'jiyaalas' exist!

I have always -- perhaps instinctively taken the *year of* maturation as you call it, as 'initiation'! The 'maturation' always seemed to arise during the PERIOD of realization which you call 'actual age' ;-)

ONLY you know and can understand why you picked the explanation that you did! Or the question that arose in your mind...!

Light and Love,

Dear Dada,

I have understood the maturation bit, and its use in Jyotish. Thanks for the very clear understanding.

The question that arose in my mind was the utility of  the total age of the planets:

Ages of Planets                                    Maturation age of Planets

Sun/Ravi= 50 years.---------------------------------------- 22 years.

Moon/Chandra= 70 years.------------------------------------- 24 years.

Mars/Mangal= Young child.--------------------------------- 28 years.

Venus/Shukra= 16 years.------------------------------------- 25 years.

Saturn/Shani=astringent.----------------------------------- 36 years.

Mercury/Budha= Youth. ----------------------------------- 32 years.

Jupiter/Guru= 30 years.----------------------------------- 16/32 years.

Saturn/Shani, Rahu, Ketu = 100 years.--------------36, 48 years.


Rishi
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Post by Rohiniranjan » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:35 pm

The periods of planets can be described as:
Moon starts at birth-theme early development and parental care (5 yrs)
Mercury starts at 5-theme early education and learning the "learning strategies and tools" (10 yrs)
Venus starts at 15-theme emotional maturity and awareness of love and venusian themes and sophistication (8 yrs)
Sun starts at 23-theme initiative, establishment of SELF, crystalization of learning, vocation (19 yrs)
Mars starts at 42-theme initiative in karma arena, leadership, challenges and defence (often triggered by mid-life crisis (15 yrs)
Jupiter starts at 57-theme is consolidation of wisdom, strengths and weaknesses, coming to terms with and advicing others (12 yrs)
Saturn and nodes at 69-theme old age issues and putting to practice what was learned so far and particularly in Jupiter's period.

Obviously, these periods are nominal and not exactly kicking in at the stated ages, though in general, the sequence is maintained. These do not overwrite other things in the chart and form yet another layer of consideration. Nothing more, nothing less...
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Post by chetansharma83 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:53 pm

Sry for digging out this pretty old thread. But would request fresh comments: What would be the result of Ketu+Jup in Scorpio in 4th house. And how will it impact Career  - Rahu in 10th in Taurus. Please also note that Ketu conjunct with 8th lord with complete Rahus's aspect and then giving complete aspect on its own 8th house .
Please refer the chart on the first page of the thread.

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Post by chetansharma83 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:08 pm

Rishirahul ji and Rohiniranjan ji, Please throw some light keeping the case in view.

rgds

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:18 pm

chetansharma83 wrote:Rishirahul ji and Rohiniranjan ji, Please throw some light keeping the case in view.

rgds

Why are you so interested in this old thread, Chetan?

Love and Light,

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Post by biltu » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:44 pm

^^^ Because this old thread has Guru chandal yog :smt003

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:26 pm

biltu wrote:^^^ Because this old thread has Guru chandal yog :smt003
Let us wait to hear from him.

Unless, Chetan Sharma and Biltu, both are Internet handles handles of the same person...?

:smt002

Love and Light,

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Post by chetansharma83 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:21 pm

no no sirs, actually i also have similar rahu ketu position along with jupiter and quiet recently this cropped up in discussions with one of my freinds who is also beginner types in astrology and hence came across this thread when was trying to search something on this arrangement to understand it better.

Basically the question is that 10th house Taurus rahu aspected by Jupiter should in no way be harmful to the person and ketu plus guru obviously will make person bit spiritual, one will have materialstic things but will not tend to enjoy them, One side Rahu will not let him lead a simple proffesional life, always hungry for power on the otherside 4th house related comforts not being enjoyed upon. And if have read this right then astrologically asking what remedy one should advice.

Appologies if i have turned this to personal question but query originated from a discussion and hence pulled in this thread which was already discussing the same subject.

rgds

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On single factors, patterns, scriptural readings and software...!

Post by Rohiniranjan » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:37 pm

chetansharma83 wrote:no no sirs, actually i also have similar rahu ketu position along with jupiter and quiet recently this cropped up in discussions with one of my freinds who is also beginner types in astrology and hence came across this thread when was trying to search something on this arrangement to understand it better.

Basically the question is that 10th house Taurus rahu aspected by Jupiter should in no way be harmful to the person and ketu plus guru obviously will make person bit spiritual, one will have materialstic things but will not tend to enjoy them, One side Rahu will not let him lead a simple proffesional life, always hungry for power on the otherside 4th house related comforts not being enjoyed upon. And if have read this right then astrologically asking what remedy one should advice.

Appologies if i have turned this to personal question but query originated from a discussion and hence pulled in this thread which was already discussing the same subject.

rgds
Chetan ji,

This is the new problem that seems to have arisen, thanks to internet forums. Others may not give much importance to this 'dim-sum' approach in modern astrology which I seem to be opposing consistently for a long time :-), namely, the folly in looking at factors and combinations in isolation of the rest of the chart, as well as accepting such labels unconditionally! For example jupiter and ketu being the sine qua non for spirituality and piousness, rahu being the rogue and destructive or obstructive for career or the opposite such as rahu bringing materialism and wealth, mars bringing debauchery, sexual misadventures (or adventures) and 4th house only about comforts or guru-chandal (and several other yogas) fitting the identical descriptions depicted at the time of writing of jyotish encyclopedias holding true in modern times; the lines are endless!

If you are truly curious or running through some difficulties in life, please approach jyotish seriously and sincerely and get a proper and full reading from someone you trust and who is capable. Get some word-of-mouth references if you can or we might have another member arriving back and complaining that modern astrologers are duffers, like is being claimed on a parallel thread :-)

It has become fashionable for some to rely on scriptural statements too religiously! If it is not in the scriptures it must be imaginary garbage! For someone who does not consider astrology a religion or necessarily a pursuit to be taken religiously (despite its association in India with the practice of religion and astrological practice to almost a near-total extent to be the territory of those of priestly pursuits), the simple fact stares in our eyes! Nearly all texts have such 'readings' including the effects of planets in houses, planets in rashis, effects of dasas and bhuktis etc. Sometimes, some of the statements match the actual experience of the nativity but mostly those simply leave one scratching ones head! But those of more puritanical bent seem to turn a blind eye to that very simple reality! Software packages have heroically tried to piece together readings out of databases of such snippets of textual readings from several standard texts but the output though voluminous has simply been of rather poor quality. And, I am not referring to the typographical and grammatical errors in the presumably hurriedly keyed in text into the databases! I am talking about the applicability of such readings, or goodness of fit between the expected and observed!

Such 'readings' are good for students for heuristic purposes, viz., pattern identification through identifying the combinations (yogas etc) in practice charts and thus enabling them to learn to do that with actual charts. A better way to learn than by cramming combinations from voluminous texts which interestingly, ALL LACK ANY CHARTS or examples, except perhaps Satya jatakam which describes ONE chart partially, but fails to give the birth data details which might have given a hint as to when it got written. In most cases of scriptures, the guesses and guesstimates span several thousands of years for each scriptural text which remain the only original resource and gold standard!

I know most jyotishis do not wish to touch this sensitive fact, but that is their personal choice for whatever their reasons might be!

I am definitely not a sceptic and also hope that I am not causing any heart-burns for all my good friends here!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan
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Post by chetansharma83 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:41 am

I completely agree with you sir and frankly this was coming in my mind while posing this question that to ask someone learned on a particular yoga without bringing in other multiple factors is incomplete in itself and far from being justified for this Vedic science and the outcomes it can predict.

However there is another perspective, people like us who have somewhere firm believe in this science irresepective of right or wrong preditions bcoz we understand either we didnt pursue it properly or the person who guided cannt be 100 % correct always or various other factors ...we keep getting into these smaller discussions with similar ppl around. We understand and as rightly pointed by you that its not THE way of reffering to this science however atleast in this so called modern life where Eastern effets are taking over the swadeshi habits etc ...these novice discussion helps keep intact the curosity cum interest towards Vedic Astrology. And then obviously comes the layer above this where learned like you keep correcting and guiding folks like us.

Still having said all this, have noted your point and i acknolwledge what you suggested is the ideal way of going about it. Will try and take it forward that way only, many thanks for your time and efforts and sincerely feel obliged whenever i read any of your replies to any of our questions.

Rgds.

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Post by Rohiniranjan » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:35 am

chetansharma83 wrote:I completely agree with you sir and frankly this was coming in my mind while posing this question that to ask someone learned on a particular yoga without bringing in other multiple factors is incomplete in itself and far from being justified for this Vedic science and the outcomes it can predict.

However there is another perspective, people like us who have somewhere firm believe in this science irresepective of right or wrong preditions bcoz we understand either we didnt pursue it properly or the person who guided cannt be 100 % correct always or various other factors ...we keep getting into these smaller discussions with similar ppl around. We understand and as rightly pointed by you that its not THE way of reffering to this science however atleast in this so called modern life where Eastern effets are taking over the swadeshi habits etc ...these novice discussion helps keep intact the curosity cum interest towards Vedic Astrology. And then obviously comes the layer above this where learned like you keep correcting and guiding folks like us.

Still having said all this, have noted your point and i acknolwledge what you suggested is the ideal way of going about it. Will try and take it forward that way only, many thanks for your time and efforts and sincerely feel obliged whenever i read any of your replies to any of our questions.

Rgds.

Chetan ji,

Thank you for getting MOST of what I stated and wished to share!

Astrology as we understand it, is NOT science! At this point in time it is simply a LANGUAGE!

BACK in the 90s, somewhat before our modern reality of YAHOO SAHU arrived, I was saying the same thing that Astrology (Divination actually?) was not science but simply a means to put together cogently symbols and interpret MEANING out of those!

Another Jyotishi, rather prominent on what were then called newsgroups in MS-DOS days, kind of similar to most modern YAHOO/GOOGLE forums, and with whom I had many luke-warm and friendly *discussions* (never seen as encounters!) and who I am sure was older and more experienced than me accosted me gently on compuserve, NAF. "But, any language is but a set of symbols and symbolic characters and shapes learned and understood and shared by a community, aren't those?". That was an *AHA* moment for me!

I am not quoting *Jai Maharaj* ji (his handle, then) verbatim but since then heard that he was an ex-ophthalmologist in Hawaii. He also posted many other things that I could never agree with, but indeed what else really astrology is or can be, other than yet another language in learning which, we understand the meaning of the symbols that are above, inside and beyond us?

Language relies on conventions and that is why we have so many of those in our WORLD-FAMILY (Vasudhaiva-kutumba?)

But HOW MANY SCIENCES does our GLOBAL REALITY have?

ONE...?

Hence, Divination and Astrology is NOT a Science, at this time! ;-)

Take it or leave it!


Love, Light, REALITY!

Rohiniranjan
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Post by chetansharma83 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:36 am

Im in complete agreement with you Rohiniranjan ji.

rgds.

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