Validity of Vedic Astrology.......... Rhutobello

[Rhutobello]

>"even the belligerant ones in person are not that bad or as insane as they sound on internet!"

Yes, and sometimes the reverse is also true ! An IBM staff in Gurgaon phoned me that Mr A K Kaul is very gentle and civil in real life, he goes mad with anger only when he hears the words "Vedic Astrology". He loves Vedic and is not against  "Astrology" also, but cannot tolerate "Vedic Astrology" !!

-VJ

Dear Vinay ji,

Certainly he has patience writing what he did, and is Learned enough, but unable to understand the higher side of spiritualism.

Such people are not financially greedy, but are rigid... and conventional in their thoughts.... not easy to change..... numbers are digital.
Aggression is known by consistently bold letters while writing.... shows the need to prove something...... being civil in real life... means the aggression is internal.

Our purpose is different, so let us apply our Intelligence elsewhere , and not where Aggression lies

Rishi

Yes, You are right....

Here is a small task for the intelligence;

After 4000 year with Vedic Astrology, and with a people who are very fond of it, and where a great number live by it...please do this simple task;

1) Point to one area in your society where "without doubt" Vedic Astrology have given its people a benefit which other Country have not.
Don't use causes that is from "Tradition", because that is not Vedic Alone.

As for western and their" attack" on Vedic Astrology, might it not be the believer itself who call it an attack?
I myself feel I ask question, and if you can prove I am wrong...then I will be a believer of Vedic at once....only dumb people waste an opportunity to know about the future, and to have an advance to other.

It has been focused a lot on Western....but you have the same inside India...here is somethink from Wiki;

Status of astrology


In the early 2000s, under the Bharatiya Janata Party led government, astrology became a topic of political contention between the religious right and academic establishment, comparable to the "Creation science" debate in US education.

The University Grants Commission and the Ministry of Human Resource Development of the Government decided to introduce "Jyotir Vigyan" (i.e. jyotir vijñāna) or "Vedic astrology" as a discipline of study in Indian universities, backed up by a decision by the Andhra Pradesh High Court, despite widespread protests from the scientific community in India and Indian scientists working abroad.[46] In September of the same year, the Supreme Court of India issued a notice to the Ministry of Human Resource Development in reaction to a petition, stating that the introduction of astrology to university curricula is "a giant leap backwards, undermining whatever scientific credibility the country has achieved so far".[47]

In 2004, the Supreme Court dismissed a further petition, judging that the teaching of astrology does not qualify as promotion of religion.[48] In February 2011, the Bombay High Court reaffirmed astrology's standing in India when it dismissed a case which had challenged it status as a science.[49

[Rhutobello]

Grandpa,

Not sure how you turned Vinay and Rishi's sharing into East vs West?  :smt017

R for Relevance...?  :smt003

Again you turn a minor thing into what is important...well it was not important, what was important is that Your High Court seems to follow the same line as those who have no education in Vedic....and that might have a value....for some..

All the time we have discussed thing like this, we are either met with the statement that we don't have enough knowledge to understand, or that our Western way of thinking don't grasp the beauty of it.

I agree....I don't have Knowledge in Vedic Astrology....but that is not the same that I don't have intelligence...that is not the same that I not on free terms can evaluate what I read, and see, that I can point out that something is wrong.....even the "Emperors New Cloths" was pointed out by a child....not because he was educated in "cloth", but because he dared to say, what other thought!

From what I understand...Vedic Astrology is build up by 3 different "classes"...maybe an reevaluation of the Hora is a way to go....after all....we know today that our Universe is in steady growth....the influence one had today...might not be the same as it is tomorrow.....or is the way of Hora just like Tarot....one makes up the rules, and they shall then live forever regardless of new discoveries?

I feel that all fields inside Belief has something to give..if it empower..it is when it start to control the life of other it become wrong!

[Vinay Jha]

what was important is that Your High Court seems to follow the same line as those who have no education in Vedic

VJ = No court in India has ever passed a verdict against teaching or practice of astrology of any kind, Vedic or non-Vedic. Court's notice is different from court's order. :)

[Rhutobello]

what was important is that Your High Court seems to follow the same line as those who have no education in Vedic

VJ = No court in India has ever passed a verdict against teaching or practice of astrology of any kind, Vedic or non-Vedic. Court's notice is different from court's order.

No, it has NOT! Neither have I said that Vedic Astrology is all wrong!

But when a supreme Court issue a Notice with such a statement, then it is time to take a timeout, and ask....where did we go wrong, and in today's society I think Hora might be toned down...so it is not given as statements and poof...but rather as direction, suggestions, and at the same time promote the own initiative, that will benefit the Native as well as the Country!

[RishiRahul]

>"even the belligerant ones in person are not that bad or as insane as they sound on internet!"

Yes, and sometimes the reverse is also true ! An IBM staff in Gurgaon phoned me that Mr A K Kaul is very gentle and civil in real life, he goes mad with anger only when he hears the words "Vedic Astrology". He loves Vedic and is not against  "Astrology" also, but cannot tolerate "Vedic Astrology" !!

-VJ

Dear Vinay ji,

Certainly he has patience writing what he did, and is Learned enough, but unable to understand the higher side of spiritualism.

Such people are not financially greedy, but are rigid... and conventional in their thoughts.... not easy to change..... numbers are digital.
Aggression is known by consistently bold letters while writing.... shows the need to prove something...... being civil in real life... means the aggression is internal.

Our purpose is different, so let us apply our Intelligence elsewhere , and not where Aggression lies

Rishi

Yes, You are right....

Here is a small task for the intelligence;
RishiRahul=We were talking of applied intelligence, related to the position of 'bhavesh'.  ie: that concept.
So I started a new thread as you are talking of the general intelligence, rather different discussions.

After 4000 year with Vedic Astrology, and with a people who are very fond of it, and where a great number live by it...please do this simple task;

1) Point to one area in your society where "without doubt" Vedic Astrology have given its people a benefit which other Country have not.
Don't use causes that is from "Tradition", because that is not Vedic Alone.
RishiRahul=Vedic or non Vedic, both comes from traditions, like most divinations.
People have known to benefit from Vedic astrology, and also from other divinations. Why single out Vedic? If others did not benefit from it, Why did it survive and develop? Why do posters return to Vedic? Why is Vedic the busiest forum in MB?
Either it makes sense or it is a big joke/fun! Which?
I cannot say about 'countries' benefitting. How does one prove it?



As for western and their" attack" on Vedic Astrology, might it not be the believer itself who call it an attack?
RishiRahul=Firstly, the attack is vice versa, by people. What difference does it make to the Learning and application.
Believers of a tradition/religion have the free will (not vedic free will) to attack other. Countries and people attack each other; so do beliefs. It does not affect Learning and its development.

I myself feel I ask question, and if you can prove I am wrong...then I will be a believer of Vedic at once....only dumb people waste an opportunity to know about the future, and to have an advance to other.
RishiRahul=Whether you want to believe in Vedic is your choice. Why do you need to believe in it, considering you are not dumb.
Another thing occurred to me:= In that case most people coming to MB are DUMB (You and me frequent vedic maximum; which means we are either dumb or love to spend time over dumb things:smt003).

It has been focused a lot on Western....but you have the same inside India...here is somethink from Wiki;

Status of astrology


In the early 2000s, under the Bharatiya Janata Party led government, astrology became a topic of political contention between the religious right and academic establishment, comparable to the "Creation science" debate in US education.

The University Grants Commission and the Ministry of Human Resource Development of the Government decided to introduce "Jyotir Vigyan" (i.e. jyotir vijñāna) or "Vedic astrology" as a discipline of study in Indian universities, backed up by a decision by the Andhra Pradesh High Court, despite widespread protests from the scientific community in India and Indian scientists working abroad.[46] In September of the same year, the Supreme Court of India issued a notice to the Ministry of Human Resource Development in reaction to a petition, stating that the introduction of astrology to university curricula is "a giant leap backwards, undermining whatever scientific credibility the country has achieved so far".[47]

In 2004, the Supreme Court dismissed a further petition, judging that the teaching of astrology does not qualify as promotion of religion.[48] In February 2011, the Bombay High Court reaffirmed astrology's standing in India when it dismissed a case which had challenged it status as a science.[49

RishiRahul=Courts decide on the legal status of something. Judges are qualified in Law have the duty to pass judgement on the LEGAL status.
Have you also noted the status of the judgements changing as per Law. Judgement 1 was backward step; reason 2= not a promotion of religion (war is also a promotion of religion). reason 3= not given the status of science.
Once Pluto was given the status of a planet, and once it was not.
Has Pluto ceased to exist?
Legal Judgements are dynamic... they change with time... are political too.

RishiRahul= I wonder What are we trying to prove here?


RishiRahul

[RishiRahul]

what was important is that Your High Court seems to follow the same line as those who have no education in Vedic

VJ = No court in India has ever passed a verdict against teaching or practice of astrology of any kind, Vedic or non-Vedic. Court's notice is different from court's order.

No, it has NOT! Neither have I said that Vedic Astrology is all wrong!

But when a supreme Court issue a Notice with such a statement, then it is time to take a timeout, and ask....where did we go wrong, and in today's society I think Hora might be toned down...so it is not given as statements and poof...but rather as direction, suggestions, and at the same time promote the own initiative, that will benefit the Native as well as the Country!

Rhuto,

Legal decisions go on, and are Dynamic. It would not be surprising to know that many  judges take the advice of astrologers.

Yes, time out to think, and I am sure many are thinking.

Time will only say what happens

RishiRahul

[Vinay Jha]

>"Judgement 1 was backward step"

I already said it was a mere NOTICE and not a JUDGMENT. The judgment was in favour of Jyotisha, and still these Jyotir Vigyan centres are functioning in universities. Please read the Wiki matter cited here carefully before misinterpreting.

This Wiki article is full of misinformation. One such example is this citation, which mentions the NOTICE after a petition but omits the verdict which is here :

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2112/st ... 904800.htm

Read the following for verdicts of two Indian high courts in above case.

http://indiankanoon.org/doc/697794/

All the courts in India have always passed their verdicts in favour of teaching Vedic Astrology in universities. But some mediapersons and Wiki articles are misinforming the public due to their prejudices.


-VJ

[Rohiniranjan]

>"Judgement 1 was backward step"

I already said it was a mere NOTICE and not a JUDGMENT. The judgment was in favour of Jyotisha, and still these Jyotir Vigyan centres are functioning in universities. Please read the Wiki matter cited here carefully before misinterpreting.

This Wiki article is full of misinformation. One such example is this citation, which mentions the NOTICE after a petition but omits the verdict which is here :

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2112/st ... 904800.htm

Read the following for verdicts of two Indian high courts in above case.

http://indiankanoon.org/doc/697794/

All the courts in India have always passed their verdicts in favour of teaching Vedic Astrology in universities. But some mediapersons and Wiki articles are misinforming the public due to their prejudices.


-VJ

People, particularly those who are not familiar with any given field,  should really 'smarten-up' because the quality of Wiki articles can range from Pataal to Swargaloka! Including health-related information and natural health products some of which are scary!! And it will increasingly get worse!

[Rhutobello]

As I have stated before...I have nothing to gain from this discussion...I love to discuss....but it seems my dear opponents don't....or maybe don't have the ability, so this become my last post on the subject.....and to great relief for many...my last Post on Mystic Board.

You have shown that you aren't able to evaluate sound critic at all, but use old dogmas in your protection...even if it is only to open your eyes..look around...and see....in a couple of generation changes will occur....when the competition will show you, that personal initiative count far more then any Hora chart, and those who will live by it...will mostly live on social benefit!

You state that Wiki is wrong.......what has Wiki to gain?....do you now have Vedic Astrology in 20 University?....do you now have Vedic Astrology as Science?

When I read YOUR article...then I saw it was used the word VERDICT!, which I have not used..Which Wiki have not used....

_____________________________
The Supreme Court judgment on the introduction of astrology as a field of study in universities is a setback to the efforts to promote scientific temper in society and runs counter to the secular foundations of the Constitution.

The Supreme Court verdict comes exactly three years after the UGC accepted the proposals of as many as 20 universities for starting new departments of Jyotir Vigyan. This is a serious blow to the efforts of the scientific community and rational-minded people who have been relentlessly campaigning against the pernicious move. Even the highest judicial body has now failed to stop it. The saving grace, perhaps, is the fact the Bharatiya Janata Party with its plank of religious fundamentalism, which included support to obscurantist practices such as astrology and vastu shastra under the pretext of upholding "traditional Hindu culture" - has been ousted from power and the Minister, who has wreaked havoc on the educational framework at all levels, is out of the political reckoning, at least for the present.



_____________________


So I think the false information on Wiki belong to the eyes that see, and their own agenda....but if you read the above...then you will see the 2 same points mention...1) Notice against it...2) Vedic Astrology don't promote Hindu Culture..or Religion...

And if you look at the article, then it is written in 2004, when they worked on a petition, which was rejected.

To read the verdicts has no relevance....if Vedic was accepted as science, and was accepted as University Study....then you had your confirmation from your own Country....since not....then You have not the confirmation from your Country...and the whole thing  must be seen as a Belief...nothing wrong with that....but it gives limitations....and that is what we who don't share the belief try to point out, and since it is NOT A RELIGION...it must be allowed without people going sour!

As for Readings and popularity....To be addicted to a thing, is not the same as the addiction gives the Native any benefits....most of the time it is degenerating.

Well...enough is enough...Goodbye!

[Rohiniranjan]

As I have stated before...I have nothing to gain from this discussion...I love to discuss....but it seems my dear opponents don't....or maybe don't have the ability, so this become my last post on the subject.....and to great relief for many...my last Post on Mystic Board.

You have shown that you aren't able to evaluate sound critic at all, but use old dogmas in your protection...even if it is only to open your eyes..look around...and see....in a couple of generation changes will occur....when the competition will show you, that personal initiative count far more then any Hora chart, and those who will live by it...will mostly live on social benefit!

You state that Wiki is wrong.......what has Wiki to gain?....do you now have Vedic Astrology in 20 University?....do you now have Vedic Astrology as Science?

When I read YOUR article...then I saw it was used the word VERDICT!, which I have not used..Which Wiki have not used....

_____________________________
The Supreme Court judgment on the introduction of astrology as a field of study in universities is a setback to the efforts to promote scientific temper in society and runs counter to the secular foundations of the Constitution.

The Supreme Court verdict comes exactly three years after the UGC accepted the proposals of as many as 20 universities for starting new departments of Jyotir Vigyan. This is a serious blow to the efforts of the scientific community and rational-minded people who have been relentlessly campaigning against the pernicious move. Even the highest judicial body has now failed to stop it. The saving grace, perhaps, is the fact the Bharatiya Janata Party with its plank of religious fundamentalism, which included support to obscurantist practices such as astrology and vastu shastra under the pretext of upholding "traditional Hindu culture" - has been ousted from power and the Minister, who has wreaked havoc on the educational framework at all levels, is out of the political reckoning, at least for the present.



_____________________


So I think the false information on Wiki belong to the eyes that see, and their own agenda....but if you read the above...then you will see the 2 same points mention...1) Notice against it...2) Vedic Astrology don't promote Hindu Culture..or Religion...

And if you look at the article, then it is written in 2004, when they worked on a petition, which was rejected.

To read the verdicts has no relevance....if Vedic was accepted as science, and was accepted as University Study....then you had your confirmation from your own Country....since not....then You have not the confirmation from your Country...and the whole thing  must be seen as a Belief...nothing wrong with that....but it gives limitations....and that is what we who don't share the belief try to point out, and since it is NOT A RELIGION...it must be allowed without people going sour!

As for Readings and popularity....To be addicted to a thing, is not the same as the addiction gives the Native any benefits....most of the time it is degenerating.

Well...enough is enough...Goodbye!

Dear Grandpa,

You are a guest in this vedic corner and we vedic-types consider a guest, any guest as a gift from God. And they are always welcome in our tiny corner, which is plain, sans any flash and flashiness, as you must have recognized and realized by now!

In a sense I am not a traditional jyotishi and while many have vehemently claimed Jyotish to be a science and others as religion, my views have always been a bit different from both sub-sub-sub-camps in our sub-sub-camp known as astrology and within the camp or Large Tent as my friend Charles used to call: DIVINATION!

I view Jyotish as a very practical tool given to us by God (maybe that is as religious I will get when viewing jyotish, in my personal perceived reality, which obviously cannot be the ideal or representative! For it is personal!).

Hence I do not make tall claims or present it as some magical, esoteric, theme, but try to connect it through analogies etc as very much connected to the real world (which some call MAYA). I am an ordinary man and not that high yet!

The universal problem with sceptics is that they first form a judgment and then begin to study and guess what? What your mind does not know, your eyes cannot see! William Boyd a famous pathologist (who used to be a psychiatrist) and wrote a very famous textbook which several generations read. His statement (don't know if it was original or quoted) always struck me as so true!

All investigators, whether forensic, medical, scientific, sceptics are well advised to fight and always be aware of and keep under check that four lettered DIRTY WORD: B-I-A-S

All are victim to it and I am sure there must be a planetary signature for it, but you are not interested in astrology, truly! Your cover has been royally blown even though you claim to like vedic jyotish and jyotishis

Please drop the charade, now or neither you nor we will move or go anywhere!

Sorry if I am hurting you, but I rely on my pattern-exploring abilities and they keep me alive and open(-minded!).

Your move, next ...

Love, Light, Learning,

[Rohiniranjan]

what was important is that Your High Court seems to follow the same line as those who have no education in Vedic

VJ = No court in India has ever passed a verdict against teaching or practice of astrology of any kind, Vedic or non-Vedic. Court's notice is different from court's order.

No, it has NOT! Neither have I said that Vedic Astrology is all wrong!

But when a supreme Court issue a Notice with such a statement, then it is time to take a timeout, and ask....where did we go wrong, and in today's society I think Hora might be toned down...so it is not given as statements and poof...but rather as direction, suggestions, and at the same time promote the own initiative, that will benefit the Native as well as the Country!

Rhuto,

Legal decisions go on, and are Dynamic. It would not be surprising to know that many  judges take the advice of astrologers.

Yes, time out to think, and I am sure many are thinking.

Time will only say what happens

RishiRahul

This is my VERDICT Rishi_bhai, to all who claim that in one or two generations, people will become emancipated and figure out how this Great Creation operates and Jyotishis and Jyotish will be decimated!

Grandpa's statements and stances remind me of someone who was born more than 100 years ago, even older than Astro_member who reported a fake age of 101 (obviously!) or the entity from the 99th dimension who was a few years younger, this time, though in earlier internet incarnations (facades!) was 65 and perhaps that was his or her true age!

This very 'great' gentleman whose life has been a matter of much study by me in terms of fate and free-will and who was mentioned in the primer, in passing, unless I later edited that out, also used to make statements like Rhutobello Grandpa! A few generations ago. Nothing much has intrinsically changed, as far as I can see and I have lived my entire life balancing science and jyotish/divination, mostly learning it, in the LAB of REALITY (that many call MAYA).

Yes it is MAYA when one views it from a different perspective, and realm of perception, but when we are engrossed in the 3-D with surround-sound reality that I call Human Experience, the experience is REAL and has CONSEQUENCES: K-A-R-M-A!

Karma is the price of the ticket we all pay, to watch, enjoy or suffer through this movie!

I realize that Science has spent much time and talent and money in studying physical reality and has got quite a good handle on it! But then the Scientists and their followers, rationalists and self-made sceptics have demonstrated the truth that lies behind the adage: When all you have is a hammer, the entire creation begins to look like a NAIL!

It is true that science is softening up, with quantum realization which blew all earlier rigid concepts into nothingness and there will be a move towards greater expansion and understanding!

But please get real, brother, and Grandpa (if he is reading and not given up on these incorrigible brats (that would be us! The two frequent-posters here -- I hope Swetha has a Frequent poster program, like the frequent flyers one!), the physical sciences or physical-reality based sciences despiter their quadrillion dollar funding so far has barely understood the PHYSICAL REALITY in few HUNDERD years! The same people, with questionable improvement in their brains or thinking or ability to learn etc (though multitasking is very much in, now!) and different VALUES, would suddenly become so capable as to fathom REALITY and figure out the CREATION!

NARY a chance, brothers and sisters!!

Love, Light, Announcement (coffee is ready! Smell the Reality!!),

[mp5boy200]

maybe astrology is real and the planets do give us energy.
if the sun is able to give life and energy to all,so why not personalities and characters
science is similar to astrology in that it has beliefs (planets,stars).
i realize that i try to look for answers in astrology, religion or science.

there could be a link between planets position and our physical appearance and personalities

[Rohiniranjan]

maybe astrology is real and the planets do give us energy.
if the sun is able to give life and energy to all,so why not personalities and characters
science is similar to astrology in that it has beliefs (planets,stars).
i realize that i try to look for answers in astrology, religion or science.

there could be a link between planets position and our physical appearance and personalities

Duy,

You are preaching to the 'converted'!
Unless you are preaching to Grandpa Rhutobello!

GOOD LUCK, in that case!  :smt019


Love, Light, You're Wasting your valuable Time if you are indeed 16! Are you?

[mp5boy200]

preaching? never thought about it
i'm 16 and almost my birthday
what do you think i should do to not waste time?

[Rohiniranjan]

preaching? never thought about it
i'm 16 and almost my birthday
what do you think i should do to not waste time?

For starters, go back and read earlier threads and sharings, but ONLY after your boring homework is done, so that you are ready for tomorrow and each day, regardless of how you feel about society and your parents, do something, even if it is a little act of kindness or love or appreciation, do that, and build up good Karma, which is just known as Dharma!

If you do that, perhaps 3 to 4 times a week, even, someday you will thank me, even after I am gone, this forum is gone (from your life, even if not really!).

Running away never helps because that is what KARMA is all about!

Love&Light