Hora Varga : a two house or a twelve house divisional ?

[Vinay Jha]

It is true Moon based dashaas reflect only mental perceptions, but except for Paramhamsa sadhus, mental perceptions reflect the external events. Nevertheless, other dashaa systems also should be used, but with caution, because  in most cases it is nowhere mentioned which dashaa system should be used under what conditions. For serious health issues, I have found that KCD sometimes describes events more accurately than Vimshottari.

But Vimshottari is universal because it reflects ALL mental perceptions and therefore ALL  EVENTS which are recorded in mind.

VJ

[RishiRahul]

It is true Moon based dashaas reflect only mental perceptions, but except for Paramhamsa sadhus, mental perceptions reflect the external events. Nevertheless, other dashaa systems also should be used, but with caution, because  in most cases it is nowhere mentioned which dashaa system should be used under what conditions. For serious health issues, I have found that KCD sometimes describes events more accurately than Vimshottari.

But Vimshottari is universal because it reflects ALL mental perceptions and therefore ALL  EVENTS which are recorded in mind.

VJ

Moon based dasas reflect mental perceptions mainly.

Such dasas and also rasi dasas should be used with caution. Every dasa system has its own limitations; generally we try to ovverseek from dasas, more than it can reflect.

Nowhere in the classics THAT  is mentioned; so one has to understand through experience that how much should be read from what?



Rishi

[RishiRahul]

...


Thank you!

I plan to give a few cases with birth details along with birth registered name and palm prints.

Explain the main events with several D charts (not the extra terrrestrial ones with past life semantics and things which cannot be proved).

I propose to cover all the 3 divinations.

But not sure if my patience would permit though; though its an intention.Do you think its a good idea? Also if it includes the documentation you mentioned?

Rishi

Well, Rishi, as you probably know, I am not a writer (in jyotish etc fields) and never felt moved to be one. But the process, like many other processes of human endeavour are of interest to me, as a topic of observation at least. Including writing!

Long ago I read a pocket book about writers and writing and in it one thing hit the spot and I clearly recall. It forbade all who wish to be writers to never discuss their plot (not necessarily a bad word! Use schema if that sounds and feels better!) with anyone, at least not until they finish writing up a satisfactory draft!

The reasoning given was this: All authors are really story-tellers and have a story to share. It is the sharing that motivates them, and if they happen to tell the story to someone -- anyone, then the urge to write wanes or even goes away! The story risks never getting written down as a consequence!

There is nothing secretive or maladaptive or frivolous about that approach!

So, before you say anything further, have you written down a satisfactory draft of the story that you wish to tell?

Love and Light,

Dada

Dada,

I am a very vocal person.

Means, I have this palmist (eclectic, not professional) friend with who I do research.

So when we get together, I share my whatever findings with him.
Though he is a palmist, he has learnt to understand astrology and numerology through me.



Why I am said the above?= I have already explained someone/done story telling what I propose to pen in books.

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

...
Dada,

I am a very vocal person.

Means, I have this palmist (eclectic, not professional) friend with who I do research.

So when we get together, I share my whatever findings with him.
Though he is a palmist, he has learnt to understand astrology and numerology through me.

Why I am said the above?= I have already explained someone/done story telling what I propose to pen in books.

Rishi

Let me explain my pov more clearly!
I am not against sharing and discussions. Rather the contrary is true. Jyotish has remained under secret wraps (some justify that by calling it sacred!) too long and when it comes out we end up with sixteen different versions of something that may have been meant to be rather simple and obvious! Multiple recipes of khichdi!

I was not talking about research findings or topical discussions. But as soon as one begins visualizing a book (no matter what theme, topic, subject, fiction or non fiction), then it takes on a different form. It becomes a goal-oriented project (or it must in my opinion!) and then it is best to let it evolve inside and when the draft is ready, those who are good friends and counsellors will still remain there to help and advice and critique).

One cannot or should not change things too much even while developing a recipe is how I look at it. My approach is develop a recipe (in the head), then give it a try and cook it (draft), change recipe and cook again (satisfactory draft. Hey this tastes good!) and then share with friends, get the suggestions, improvise, improve. Then the dish is ready for general consumption, knowing well that even after all that effort -- some will like it, others will not!

Hopefully, I am not sounding too patronizing or unctorial?

Dada

[RishiRahul]

...
Dada,

I am a very vocal person.

Means, I have this palmist (eclectic, not professional) friend with who I do research.

So when we get together, I share my whatever findings with him.
Though he is a palmist, he has learnt to understand astrology and numerology through me.

Why I am said the above?= I have already explained someone/done story telling what I propose to pen in books.

Rishi

Let me explain my pov more clearly!
I am not against sharing and discussions. Rather the contrary is true. Jyotish has remained under secret wraps (some justify that by calling it sacred!) too long and when it comes out we end up with sixteen different versions of something that may have been meant to be rather simple and obvious! Multiple recipes of khichdi!
Rishi=I have learnt to believe that every problem in life has a simple, straight cut solution, if we are able to leave out Maya or attachments.

I was not talking about research findings or topical discussions. But as soon as one begins visualizing a book (no matter what theme, topic, subject, fiction or non fiction), then it takes on a different form. It becomes a goal-oriented project (or it must in my opinion!) and then it is best to let it evolve inside and when the draft is ready, those who are good friends and counsellors will still remain there to help and advice and critique).
Rishi=Yes, it is goal oriented.
Well I was/am just pondering. Anyways the time is not ripe divinatorily. So till then it would be 'thinking about how to go about it', I guess.
There is no draft as of now.
Maybe I would be comfortable in staring with a known case and analysing as my mind spoke/speaks about it; synthesising etc etc.



One cannot or should not change things too much even while developing a recipe is how I look at it. My approach is develop a recipe (in the head), then give it a try and cook it (draft), change recipe and cook again (satisfactory draft. Hey this tastes good!) and then share with friends, get the suggestions, improvise, improve. Then the dish is ready for general consumption, knowing well that even after all that effort -- some will like it, others will not!
Rishi =My idea is to write spontaneously; then after a few pages, reread and make it sound crisper/better lucidity.
I like your idea about taste; I would look at taste as being understandable and lucid/simple

Hopefully, I am not sounding too patronizing or unctorial?
Rishi =Why do you even think so? I didn't think so at all


Dada

Everything, like Logic, and even Jyotish is/should be simple.

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

...
Dada,

I am a very vocal person.

Means, I have this palmist (eclectic, not professional) friend with who I do research.

So when we get together, I share my whatever findings with him.
Though he is a palmist, he has learnt to understand astrology and numerology through me.

Why I am said the above?= I have already explained someone/done story telling what I propose to pen in books.

Rishi

Let me explain my pov more clearly!
I am not against sharing and discussions. Rather the contrary is true. Jyotish has remained under secret wraps (some justify that by calling it sacred!) too long and when it comes out we end up with sixteen different versions of something that may have been meant to be rather simple and obvious! Multiple recipes of khichdi!
Rishi=I have learnt to believe that every problem in life has a simple, straight cut solution, if we are able to leave out Maya or attachments.

I was not talking about research findings or topical discussions. But as soon as one begins visualizing a book (no matter what theme, topic, subject, fiction or non fiction), then it takes on a different form. It becomes a goal-oriented project (or it must in my opinion!) and then it is best to let it evolve inside and when the draft is ready, those who are good friends and counsellors will still remain there to help and advice and critique).
Rishi=Yes, it is goal oriented.
Well I was/am just pondering. Anyways the time is not ripe divinatorily. So till then it would be 'thinking about how to go about it', I guess.
There is no draft as of now.
Maybe I would be comfortable in staring with a known case and analysing as my mind spoke/speaks about it; synthesising etc etc.



One cannot or should not change things too much even while developing a recipe is how I look at it. My approach is develop a recipe (in the head), then give it a try and cook it (draft), change recipe and cook again (satisfactory draft. Hey this tastes good!) and then share with friends, get the suggestions, improvise, improve. Then the dish is ready for general consumption, knowing well that even after all that effort -- some will like it, others will not!
Rishi =My idea is to write spontaneously; then after a few pages, reread and make it sound crisper/better lucidity.
I like your idea about taste; I would look at taste as being understandable and lucid/simple

Hopefully, I am not sounding too patronizing or unctorial?
Rishi =Why do you even think so? I didn't think so at all


Dada

Everything, like Logic, and even Jyotish is/should be simple.

Rishi

Logic is simple ONLY after we *get* it! Jyotish too...!

[Vinay Jha]

Moon based dasas reflect mental perceptions mainly.
Such dasas and also rasi dasas should be used with caution. Every dasa system has its own limitations; generally we try to overseek from dasas, more than it can reflect.
Nowhere in the classics THAT  is mentioned; so one has to understand through experience that how much should be read from what?
Rishi

Some moderners know better than the classics, and are trying their best to overhaul the very foundations of Vedic Jyotisha. Everyday we hear of new inventions in ayanamsha, divisionals, etc, by those who fail to deliver goods through traditionally acclaimed techniques.

But fools like us know that Vimshottari has special place in classics and older texts based on classics, chapters devoted to it in a large number of classics and related texts. It reflects the huge experience of a vast majority of traditional astrology which is firmly grounded in classics as well.

The fact that many moderners fail to get benefit of Vimshottari means that either all traditional astrologers and the authors of  traditional classics were fools,  OR moderners losing faith in Vimshottari have lost grounds and are floating in air.

I am not targeting any individual, but my complaint is against those who fail to show results through traditional approach of Vedic Jyotisha. Were all traditional astrologers based on classics merely fools?

PVR Narasimha Rao of JHora once complained that traditional astrologers, for instance his father, used very simple traditional techniques and were highly successful, but moderners using computers and a large battery of tools and techniques fail to produce similar results. Why ? PVR's aim is to find out that SIMPLE technique.

Is it not an irony that a highly intelligent and qualified son of a successful astrologer-father is trying to discover that simple technique which is evading him after decades of research? It means he is searching in the wrong direction, the answer lies in his own family tradition : TRADITION. Unless you learn and respect the tradition, you cannot develop it further : this development of tradition is the real  "modernity" . Rootless experimentation is not modernisation.

100% of cases coming to me for astrological consultancy require very simple techniques and I need to devote little time, although I am never in a hurry. But while teaching or discussing astrology, I focus on all aspects, which seem to be complicated. It is similar to the difficulty in learning medical science but using quick methods for healing patients after you learn the art.

The secret of simplicity needed in practical chart reading lies in the fact that when you respect rishis, classics, and follow the ancient rules about fees &c, divine help comes to you unnoticed and makes your task easy. But even then, if someone comes to you not for getting help but merely for testing or ridiculing you, divine help does not come. this is part of Rishi0yajna.

VJ

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear Vinay ji,

This is a general statement and must not for one second be misinterpreted as me pointing fingers at anyone named or unnamed in the preceding sharing or by extrapolation to anyone else, modern, pre-modern or ancient going all the way back to whenever jyotish breathed its first breath. And, this disclaimer is not just for you but anyone who reads these thoughts of mine!

If 'techniques' were all that were required to become a successful divinator, then classics would have just stopped at describing astrological techniques, such as building blocks, combinations, derivations thereof, techniques for timing of rapid and not so rapid progressions and similar 'calculables'! They did not!! They went on to describe the mental, moral qualities of suitable divinators, and their spiritual practices. So, obviously, more than just learning and memorizing the techniques was involved. The latter, a software can perhaps do a lot better and faster than a human being. Even today there are commercial (and possibly non-commercial too) software exists that can sift through a natal chart in a couple of minutes and identify all the yogas, arishtas, umpteen dasas right down to the minutest levels and similarly calculate all the varsha, masa, dina praveshas and transits and even produce a report based on canned phrases which all came originally from not one but several classics and as a bonus adds 1001 modern yogas (!) and even permits users to add yogas of their own using a rather simple to learn code system. Breath-taking performance by any human standards, all of the McJyotish (borrowing the iconic fast-food giant's name to make a point!). What ensues is a khichdi report which is not helpful, or fit for consumption if gobbled up or served as a whole!

Despite this tantalizing smorgasbord, all from revered classics, and based on techniques that most jyotishis use, why do nativities still need jyotishis?

Obviously, techniques are essential, but there is something more that is critically essential!

It is 'that' something that makes the process *simple* and that simple cannot be captured by a software, any software, or by a technique or techniques! Those, are easy to capture in a software or database or both, but that elusive simplicity requires a human being, and preferably one who is in the 'zone' where it is not about research or testing, but about one human being seriously and sincerely trying to help and give helpful advice and guidance to another human being. One being the Jyotishi (divinator) and the other being the nativity who is in real need of help and guidance and not trying to waste the divinator's time!

Love and Light and Reality!

Rohiniranjan

[Rohiniranjan]

Dada, you are elaborating what I mentioned briefly in my last para.

I am leaving this forum permanently due to Admin's false accusation of plagiary concerning my article on Systems Approach.

VJ

I never said that I disagreed with what you wrote.
Those who arrogantly claim that Jyotish can be collected as a museum specimen (of technics) are trying to collect an ocean with a sieve!

Hopefully saner heads shall prevail so that discussions can continue without too many interruptions!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[RishiRahul]

Dada, you are elaborating what I mentioned briefly in my last para.

I am leaving this forum permanently due to Admin's false accusation of plagiary concerning my article on Systems Approach.

VJ

I never said that I disagreed with what you wrote.
Those who arrogantly claim that Jyotish can be collected as a museum specimen (of technics) are trying to collect an ocean with a sieve!

Hopefully saner heads shall prevail so that discussions can continue without too many interruptions!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

I too am in agreement.

Again, I wonder if there are some techniques, not mentioned/missed out of BPHS due to 'loss in history' factors, maybe during some dark ages of Jyotish.

What do you' think?

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

Dada, you are elaborating what I mentioned briefly in my last para.

I am leaving this forum permanently due to Admin's false accusation of plagiary concerning my article on Systems Approach.

VJ

I never said that I disagreed with what you wrote.
Those who arrogantly claim that Jyotish can be collected as a museum specimen (of technics) are trying to collect an ocean with a sieve!

Hopefully saner heads shall prevail so that discussions can continue without too many interruptions!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

I too am in agreement.

Again, I wonder if there are some techniques, not mentioned/missed out of BPHS due to 'loss in history' factors, maybe during some dark ages of Jyotish.

What do you' think?

Rishi

That is something only Maharshi Parashara would know!
We can only guess and guesses are like rumours.
Tasty snacks that kill the appetite and not very nutritious!