12th House Vedic Astrology

[mysbcrs]

How can the need for Dharma ever vanish for anyone?

Can it be that Dharma is social while Moksha is personal (albeit to "lose" oneself)?

[Rohiniranjan]

How can the need for Dharma ever vanish for anyone?

Can it be that Dharma is social while Moksha is personal (albeit to "lose" oneself)?

Isn't that what the "vishwaroop darshan" analogically is what it was meant about ...?

[RishiRahul]

How can the need for Dharma ever vanish for anyone?

Can it be that Dharma is social while Moksha is personal (albeit to "lose" oneself)?

Well. If compared, 'Dharma' is probably more social than 'Moksha'.

Of course, 'Moksha' is a very personal experience; thus abs personal. I doubt if 2 natives together can achieve it like 'Romeo & Juliet' or 'Einstein & E=mcsquare'.
Isnt 'Dharma' less personal than 'Moksha'?! At least mathematically..

The D9 shows 'Dharma' and 'marriage' too.
Everyone has his own Dharma; Gets married or lives in with someone. Right?

'Living in', like 'marriage', is also a different level of 'Dharma'............But certainly 'Dharma' as its is contained in D9.

Rishi

[biltu]

The D9 shows 'Dharma' and 'marriage' too.
Everyone has his own Dharma; Gets married or lives in with someone. Right.

Yes
Sree Sree Ramakrishna Paramhansa Dev said --- zoto math tato path
that's mean the point is one, everyone reach that point by his/her own way.

Is D9 meaning the Navamsa ?

[RishiRahul]

The D9 shows 'Dharma' and 'marriage' too.
Everyone has his own Dharma; Gets married or lives in with someone. Right.

Yes
Sree Sree Ramakrishna Paramhansa Dev said --- zoto math tato path
that's mean the point is one, everyone reach that point by his/her own way.

Is D9 meaning the Navamsa ?

Biltu,

Not quite sure if RamKrishna Dev felt that  D9 was Navamsa.

I dont have clue if he felt it was. Maybe the books can say something.

RishiRahul

[biltu]

Biltu,

Not quite sure if RamKrishna Dev felt that  D9 was Navamsa.

I dont have clue if he felt it was. Maybe the books can say something.

RishiRahul

That question was from my side
Is D9 meaning the Navamsa ?

[Rohiniranjan]

Biltu,

Not quite sure if RamKrishna Dev felt that  D9 was Navamsa.

I dont have clue if he felt it was. Maybe the books can say something.

RishiRahul

That question was from my side
Is D9 meaning the Navamsa ?

While I for one am in awe of the realisations and self-realisations and WISDOM of these modern saints: Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda and his Great Guru Swami Yukteshwar_ji, their sayings and statements if dragged into our LOW level of understanding of REALITY, including Jyotish are fraught with problems, if not danger!

Only one out of these FOUR supported Jyotish, while his shishya pretty much 'pooh-poohed' against astrology and the remaining 2 were either silent, specifically, about jyotish.

One vocally for and three against! You do the MATH, Biltu and RR!

But these were higher beings and if we just follow them blindly -- laced with our meagre understanding about them or what they said or meant vis-a-vis astrology -- then there is the high probability of confusion!

Jyotish is for ground-level ordinary folks! Unless one decides to leave this mundane householder "reality" and truly become Moksha-Mukhi -- at which stage, jyotish would be useless for such a one -- it is best to stay in touch with ground level reality!

That SIMPLE fact, many seem to have forgotten about -- since they have their feet in both boats, one ihalaukik, the other paralaukik!

They are NEITHER HERE NOR THERE and essentially - KONFUSED!!

Love, Light, Livid Reality!

[Rohiniranjan]

The D9 shows 'Dharma' and 'marriage' too.
Everyone has his own Dharma; Gets married or lives in with someone. Right.

Yes
Sree Sree Ramakrishna Paramhansa Dev said --- zoto math tato path
that's mean the point is one, everyone reach that point by his/her own way.

Is D9 meaning the Navamsa ?

Just trying to lighten up the mood, here, with no personal barbs intended, brothers and friends! I forget where I read this first, but I am reminded of a saying that I read when I was a child, when I was learning Bangla:

"MATHa nai taar MATHa-baatha (vyatha!)"

Ever heard of an 'ant' or 'kitten' requiring aspirin...?

LOVE, Light, humility...?

(what the zen koen stated so simply: Spirituality is - Each morning wake up, climb down, chop wood, fetch water, climb up, make fire, then tea and start the day with a smile, as often as you can! But never as a CHORE! It is like surrendering to MA's wish and focusing on painting the fence! Been there done that! The fearful Bhramari visited but for once, the fear was gone and then many years later, decades actually, she revisited again and it became Crystal Clear!! D9 was involved...)

[mysbcrs]

How can the need for Dharma ever vanish for anyone?

Can it be that Dharma is social while Moksha is personal (albeit to "lose" oneself)?

Well. If compared, 'Dharma' is probably more social than 'Moksha'.

Of course, 'Moksha' is a very personal experience; thus abs personal. I doubt if 2 natives together can achieve it like 'Romeo & Juliet' or 'Einstein & E=mcsquare'.
Isnt 'Dharma' less personal than 'Moksha'?! At least mathematically..

The D9 shows 'Dharma' and 'marriage' too.
Everyone has his own Dharma; Gets married or lives in with someone. Right?

'Living in', like 'marriage', is also a different level of 'Dharma'............But certainly 'Dharma' as its is contained in D9.

Rishi

I was trying to do some loud thinking in responese to "How can Dharma vanish for any one?". Dharma can take a back-seat (if not vanich fully) when a person is not able to balance other three purusharthaas along side Dharma. I cited Moksha as an extreme example. But there are instances when saints (those whom we hold in great revere and feel did come very close to Moksha) did abandon some of their Dharma to achieve what did they did. e.g, abandon the family and take sansyas or shun grihasthshram against the wishes of parents et.,, .

[RishiRahul]

Biltu,

Not quite sure if RamKrishna Dev felt that  D9 was Navamsa.

I dont have clue if he felt it was. Maybe the books can say something.

RishiRahul

That question was from my side
Is D9 meaning the Navamsa ?

While I for one am in awe of the realisations and self-realisations and WISDOM of these modern saints: Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda and his Great Guru Swami Yukteshwar_ji, their sayings and statements if dragged into our LOW level of understanding of REALITY, including Jyotish are fraught with problems, if not danger!

Only one out of these FOUR supported Jyotish, while his shishya pretty much 'pooh-poohed' against astrology and the remaining 2 were either silent, specifically, about jyotish.

One vocally for and three against! You do the MATH, Biltu and RR!

But these were higher beings and if we just follow them blindly -- laced with our meagre understanding about them or what they said or meant vis-a-vis astrology -- then there is the high probability of confusion!

Jyotish is for ground-level ordinary folks! Unless one decides to leave this mundane householder "reality" and truly become Moksha-Mukhi -- at which stage, jyotish would be useless for such a one -- it is best to stay in touch with ground level reality!

That SIMPLE fact, many seem to have forgotten about -- since they have their feet in both boats, one ihalaukik, the other paralaukik!

They are NEITHER HERE NOR THERE and essentially - KONFUSED!!

Love, Light, Livid Reality!

Oh! I just dropped a humorous hint to biltu to hit the books for D9.

To be very frank and blunt= I have read about moksha.. about people attaining Moksha... but Really wouldnt know what it is; as I have not yet experienced it.

But I like your thoughts....rather the fact being neither here nor there:)

Rishi

[RishiRahul]

The D9 shows 'Dharma' and 'marriage' too.
Everyone has his own Dharma; Gets married or lives in with someone. Right.

Yes
Sree Sree Ramakrishna Paramhansa Dev said --- zoto math tato path
that's mean the point is one, everyone reach that point by his/her own way.

Is D9 meaning the Navamsa ?

Just trying to lighten up the mood, here, with no personal barbs intended, brothers and friends! I forget where I read this first, but I am reminded of a saying that I read when I was a child, when I was learning Bangla:

"MATHa nai taar MATHa-baatha (vyatha!)"

Ever heard of an 'ant' or 'kitten' requiring aspirin...?

LOVE, Light, humility...?

(what the zen koen stated so simply: Spirituality is - Each morning wake up, climb down, chop wood, fetch water, climb up, make fire, then tea and start the day with a smile, as often as you can! But never as a CHORE! It is like surrendering to MA's wish and focusing on painting the fence! Been there done that! The fearful Bhramari visited but for once, the fear was gone and then many years later, decades actually, she revisited again and it became Crystal Clear!! D9 was involved...)

Ant   Aspirin    :smt005

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

...

Ant   Aspirin    :smt005

Rishi

Ant-acid ...?

Ant-bites hurt because of an acid named formic acid that the ant releases!  

Antbites can be formative for some...! It brings them back to 'earth'!  :smt003

[Rohiniranjan]

...
Oh! I just dropped a humorous hint to biltu to hit the books for D9.

To be very frank and blunt= I have read about moksha.. about people attaining Moksha... but Really wouldnt know what it is; as I have not yet experienced it.

But I like your thoughts....rather the fact being neither here nor there:)

Rishi

Biltu_ji, IMO, already has too much 'humour'! Books and study-time is good advice

Moksha, certainly is beyond jyotish and for serious seekers of moksha, jyotish holds a very minor place. That is why saints searching for Moksha do not pay too much attention to Jyotish-the samsarik tool, except for one or two, Yukteshwar being the noted exception

Lahiri Mahashay (lineage of Babaji and guru of Yukteshwar and great grand guru of Yogananda) was a married individual and so was Ramakrishna, but not samsarik in the usual sense of the term!

In MA's MAYApuri, anything is possible and hence we see examples of all kinds of realized beings, married and celibate -- but all sanyaasis, though perhaps some fundamentalists may disagree.

Love, Light, MA!

[biltu]

Oh! I just dropped a humorous hint to biltu to hit the books for D9.

anyway I find D9 is a Navamsa by study.

I think moksha is a abastha of a person where he/she feel pleasure from every where. some times I go to some position when I feel pleasure from every where, like at that time when I see a drooping water I feel pleasure from it, when I see birds flew over the sky I feel pleasure from it, from every view I feel pleasure, at that time I also feel and understand GOD is everywhere because I feel it. I feel the presence of GOD in everywhere. from that pleasure I start keep laughing. But this kind of feeling I only have for 3 to 4 minutes. after that it gone.

[Rohiniranjan]

How can the need for Dharma ever vanish for anyone?

Can it be that Dharma is social while Moksha is personal (albeit to "lose" oneself)?

Well. If compared, 'Dharma' is probably more social than 'Moksha'.

Of course, 'Moksha' is a very personal experience; thus abs personal. I doubt if 2 natives together can achieve it like 'Romeo & Juliet' or 'Einstein & E=mcsquare'.
Isnt 'Dharma' less personal than 'Moksha'?! At least mathematically..

The D9 shows 'Dharma' and 'marriage' too.
Everyone has his own Dharma; Gets married or lives in with someone. Right?

'Living in', like 'marriage', is also a different level of 'Dharma'............But certainly 'Dharma' as its is contained in D9.

Rishi

Unlike Biltu who likes to pick and choose statements and then focuses on that - which shows a somewhat focused and 'tiny bytes/bites" strategy, and shares beautiful images and imageries (like our revered Thakur and the simple but elegantly floral AURA with very meaningful colour and flower arrangements in the image he shared), I like to see a bigger slice in trying to connect the dots, primarily for my sake but like to share that as  I am doing in this post and have in other ones, which have caused some irritation and PITTA in others who are focused but too serious and in some kind of a hurry to emancipate! )

Biltu probably does this because of business and engineering background as he shared and I can understand his need to focus on small slices but with intensity! What I admire about him is his humour and passion for life and all that it offers! He is blessed that way! (sorry for long posting!!)

But his innocent (seemingly...!) questions are like an ant-bite and at least make me get thinking...

It helps me purrsonally because I am a humble, open and samsarik praani who never claimed to be self-realized or pretending to be all-knowing and my directness at times have made some individuals think that I am arrogant or haughty or even condescending WHAT A JOKE!! But such *medals* from individuals have helped me understand how astrology works and this so called mysterious and mystical entity called SYNASTRY! The interactions between two birthcharts and the individuals that those represent or encapsulate insofar as *descriptors and descriptions* go!

Divisional 9 or Varga 9 as I like to call navamsha is often concretely dismissed as the marriage chart or marriage partner's chart and some venturing a bit farther, very cautiously, lately even chart for dharma and religion and religiousness and the rest of the 9 yards! 9 Is such a mystical number <LOL>

Navamsha has been almost intuitively picked up in recent several decades as the next most important chart to lagna chart (Rashi, D1, V1; KSHETRA VARGA) and few disagree or deny that and those who do, do so very feebly!

What if V9 has a personal indication, message that goes beyond those somewhat mechanical and superficial labels that are 'mechanically-employed'!

If we think of that varga as a chart that shows 'the missing part of the puzzle' and as a complementary chart? The chart that would make our current life-path mission COMPLETE?

Can be wife, can be dharma, can be bhagya (according to some!), but really it is not about material aspects alone! Rather -- it is the descriptor of what we need to complete the understanding, path and purpose of current life-time.

And the seeker must not dive too hastily into the usual indolent strategy: What if I have mercury in the 9th or 7th in my V9 or what would be the significance of pisces rising in V9 etc etc etc.

Jyotish has a built-in self-preserving *amulet* built-in and this is consistently demonstrated in nearly all ancient writings that have survived time!

Complement, mind you! Not compliment or suppliment!!

Love, Light, Sharing...!