Vedic Bhava chalit

[RishiRahul]

18th August 1972
3:55 pm
Moga ,Punjab

Rishi Ji, If u look at the chart, Sun and Mars in 9th Rasi chart , it is a raja Yoga ....But in Bhava chart 9th lord Sun moves to 8th house , there it gets invovled with malefics ketu and Mercury ........And also gets aspect from rahu , who is in 2nd house.......So sun  is totally trapped. I asked the native about having difficulty his father. He replied that his father died before his birth......So bhava chart helps to discover the truth behind the Rasi chart...............> chart details given by vijayan for bhava research


Hello vijayan,

A very big problem of astro seekers are to jump to conclusions based on rajayoga...... and/or 'one factor' analysis.
Does Rajayoga mean that the father will not be affected?

Have you considered 'karako bhavanashya' caused in the 9th. due to Sun?

Of course, we are only sticking to the Sun & 9th now...your point of reference.

Please answer this first? You could consider 'pitrikarak' also in the analysis.

RishiRahul

Dear All,

Few more thoughts...
...In this rather interesting thread where many important perspectives are getting shared, as well as introduction of additional factors or perspectives or nuances if one wants to call those, one thing we must remain mindful of. Here no one is challenging anyone else but merely displaying how different folks focus on different and additional factors. In addition to the KBN introduced by Rishi Rahul, namely, by virtue of sun's presence in the ninth, in the whole sign chart, despite the raja-yoga formed by two trikona lords placed in a trikona (sun + mars) once cannot ignore the fact that mars also signifies loss (12), so one may say that KBN plus association with L12 (mars) would signify yet another negative influence (loss of father). There is a third PLUS (in a negative sense!) that is affecting the 9th house. Gulika is placed in the 9th house! Now we have three robins pointing to some problem with the 'father' aspect in the chart. Venus is chara pitrikaraka and placed in the kendra (7th) house and so is not telling much towards the loss of father. Unfortunately, although for simplicity we can remain within our simplistic kshetra only and no other varga premise, but let us be curious and see what is going on in the D12, the varga dealing with parents. Since the nativity is posthumous (born after father's death) in experiential terms, he never really knew father as a living person. But Parashara also included the 10th as a house dealing with father, in other words mother's husband (7th from 4th). The chara pitrikaraka as it is called is venus and is placed in the 10th house in D12. Here it seems that the chara karaka is displaying KBN! But, this would remain just an explanation or an 'interesting' possibility unless the pattern shows up in other posthumous charts as well, hence academic significance, at this time. Additional negativities will be saturn in rashi aspect with sun which is lord of 9th in D1 and natural karaka for father, which we have seen having negative influences in the natal chart. Although others bravely apply aspects (graha drishti, the usual one we all use, namely 3,7,10 of saturn etc) in finer vargas, I am a bit cautious about those degree-distance based aspects in finer vargas; rashi aspects are more comfortable to apply since they are based on elemental and intrinsic properties of rashis (chara, sthira, dwiswabhava). From the tenth house perspective (mother's husband), we also note the presence of malefic influences in the marak-house (11th). Jupiter will have to be taken as negative vis-a-vis the house under consideration in D12. Other negative influences too exist in that varga, but I may be already taxing the patience of some of the readers, and so am presenting this (d12) as *fine-print* and 'secondary' (we have already defined that term quite profusely, between the two RRs recently

To return to our (original) sheep, as the French people say, so far we have not even touched the chalits!

Equal House: No major difference from Whole sign house, except that saturn moves from 6th to the 7th and joins, venus, the pitrikaraka (aha!). Both being mutually in atimitra dignity, that would not be all too terrible, particularly with jupiter's aspect on the 7th bhava. There is another thing that I shall return to momentarily.

Sripati House: Sun moves to 8th house and joins ketu and mercury. Definitely not a positive move but given the above (Whole sign) factors, the formar would seem more indicative of the absence of father. I do not believe we should really take the 'drishtis aspects' of rahu and ketu which are mathematical points, other than conjunctions and rashi drishtis (more like connecting bridges than drishtis as in glance-visual!). But many do and BPHS also mentions those, so I won't spend time arguing that with those who have satisfied themselves that that is how things go based on their experience. The same reason, why I do not argue with other ayanamsha followers.

I am afraid, dear friends, that in this case too, the whole sign house is telling me a lot more about the topic under scrutiny! And directly!!

So, with due respects, does that mean that chalit which arguably is more mathematically-precise than whole sign, not useful? Is it a modulating influence or corroborative consideration so that if something shows up in the whole sign and the traditional chalit (equal and unequal) then it makes the deal stronger?? There is a third utility too! In mathematical jyotish, the griha drishtis are described as degree-intervals with which drishtibala is calculated as part of shadbala. So for convenience, while many take the entire sign, when calculated mathematically, a planet is 1st degree of a sign would not be casting the same intensity of drishti on a planet at 29th degree of the opposite sign, as it would if both planets were at the same degree (or close) in the opposite sign! And the same would be true for special drishtis. The chalit charts provide a 'visual' means of gauging that, through their shifts! So when saturn moves into the 7th house in the equal house division, one may say that it is casting a stronger or fuller aspect on sun and mars, as opposed to ke and even mercury. And a quick look at sripati as cross-check would tell us that since sun moves to the 8th house (but not mars), its aspect is stronger on sun than on mars (based on the nominal 3/11 interval). I hope readers are fairly familiar with charts to see the points I am trying to explain and describe with my tiny expressive abilities.

I also hope that readers are not lulling themselves into believing that all this is too complex because this is all very superficial exploration and the matrix of jyotish can be far more complex than this and I wish I could say otherwise, but this and way more would need to be done if we are serious about jyotish in a methodical and consistent manner.

Thanks for your attention!

Rohiniranjan

RR ji,

Thanks for the lucid analysis. As far as this chart is concerned, i agree that chalit charts do not seem to add much significance. I would like to add a few pointers avalable from Kshetra:

1. Ma, apart from being L12 is alo badhakesh for 9th and being lord of 12th from Sa (karaka for loss) doubles up as a loss agent
2. From Mo, 9th is even more afflicted (nodal axis plus Me in enemy' sign and lord Mo in debilitation sign, 3rd aspect of Sa)

My own experience on KBN does not seem to give consistent results. In my own chart Su is in 9th with Gulika aspected by 9th lord Sa - far worse when compared to chart in question. Quite contrary to "first-take" by a quite a few astrolger friends, my relationship with my father was very smooth and my father lived till he was 80.

myscbrs ji,

I always take the rasi chart as the main important. It is.
Since the present thread was about the bhava chart, as it gives additional flavours, there was discussions.

Sun in the 9th. leads to KBN. A benefic aspect giving budhaditya yoga highlights the house of father beneficially.
I have mentioned in mb sometime this month that an expect of a benefic can dilute it.
In your case the benefic is mercury (lagna & 4th. lord).

In any case I found this principle of KBN  very powerful.

Another type of KBN  is when the natural pitrikarak become chara pitrikarak.
The fathers influence becomes strong & permeating. Do you have this too?
Again budhaditya in the 9th is good for father indication.

Maybe the native would have liked to get more of the father, at least at later ages.

A strong principle gives consistent results only when you take the conjunctions etc into consideration.

RishiRahul

[vijiyan]

Dear Vijayan,



Shani aspecting Lagna= Makes the natives practical, as the native prefers an easy life at the earlier ages.

The area of harshness & practicality is received through the houses the natives saturn is posited & aspects.

A weak 10th house goes to indicate weakness of the 10th. house. A weakness in the 10th. house may or may not indicate a harsh career.

Please do post the new details. HHopefull the native is above 40 & you are reasonably well aware of his life.

Aquarius is a good house for Jupiter. Would Jupiter being in Aquarius in the 12th. cripple it?

Can shani aspecting lagna from the 11th. destroy comforts?
There must be factors to check on comforts.



Do post his details if you have enough data.

RishiRahul

Dearest Rishi Rahul Ji, Thanks for your presence here. I have been waiting for your response.

Rishi Ji,  My feeling is that Shani will not  give easy success to anyone compared to other planets. Though he does not deny comforts but he delays it for sure.... He is a strict task master who likes to test the native to the fullest before giving his rewards. Whenever shani is pleased , he certainly gives rewards , it stays with him forever.

Rishi ji, Jupiter does well in  Aquarius , there is no doubt about it. But Rishi Ji, i am not big fan of trik houses. I dislike it. For me Trines indicate Massive Prosperity , luck , smooth life. Had the Jupiter been in 9th house ( Aquarius) it would have been Diamond for the native or Jupiter in good house would have been better.

But whatever you have said it like " weakness of 10th house does not indicate harshness in career" is absolutely true .

Rishi Ji, one small point here, Rishi Ji we all are fans of the Great Bhava chart, we get good happiness if planets are placed in good Bhavas rather than Trik Houses, though Trik it is necessary not that bad, but when compared to fortunes , it cannot equal the Kendras or Trines .
So there will be some weakness to the planets placed in trik houses.

Rishi Ji, In april of this YEAR  , my father was diagnosed TB + CANCER. In my chart 9th lord mercury is in 12th house. I never shared close relationship with my father. My mother is my strength , why??? Because mars 4th lord is exalted in lagna.
In January my friends mother got brain stoke and there were clots in her brain , though she recovered. My friends chart is Meena Lagna and Mercury the 4th and 7th lord is in 12th house.

Recent fresh news: Rishi ji , i told you about my family astrologer predicting that my cousin will not live with his parents after the age of 16yrs.

Here is the update , Yesterday , the cousins father yesterday had massive brain stroke and he is ICU , ventilator support. He is in comma. Chances of his survival is not less than 5%. The cousins chart has mercury the 9th lord in 8th house, they never shared good relationship and now his father is under massive health threat.





Rishi Ji, i am posting the details of my Uncle as i said before. I know him very well, i can give as much details about him ....


His details:

1st August 1958
10: 25 am
Nagpur, Maharashtra
Longitude: 79 : 6 E
Latitude: 21 9 N

Lagna: Kanya

brief background about the native:

Sir, he was an average  student till 8th class and after that started his turning point. He became a Bright student after that

His education qualification is he did Bsc from Nagpur University, later Msc(Gold Medalist) from Nagpur University . In 1982 June , he went to US for doing MS from Miami University and PHD from Harvard University.After that he became Professor and later Dean for the concerned department.

In our family he is the most powerful achiever .

Rishi Ji, any more details , i am ready to give .

Thank You

[RishiRahul]

Dear Vijayan,



Shani aspecting Lagna= Makes the natives practical, as the native prefers an easy life at the earlier ages.

The area of harshness & practicality is received through the houses the natives saturn is posited & aspects.

A weak 10th house goes to indicate weakness of the 10th. house. A weakness in the 10th. house may or may not indicate a harsh career.

Please do post the new details. HHopefull the native is above 40 & you are reasonably well aware of his life.

Aquarius is a good house for Jupiter. Would Jupiter being in Aquarius in the 12th. cripple it?

Can shani aspecting lagna from the 11th. destroy comforts?
There must be factors to check on comforts.



Do post his details if you have enough data.

RishiRahul

Dearest Rishi Rahul Ji, Thanks for your presence here. I have been waiting for your response.

Rishi Ji,  My feeling is that Shani will not  give easy success to anyone compared to other planets. Though he does not deny comforts but he delays it for sure.... He is a strict task master who likes to test the native to the fullest before giving his rewards. Whenever shani is pleased , he certainly gives rewards , it stays with him forever.

Rishi ji, Jupiter does well in  Aquarius , there is no doubt about it. But Rishi Ji, i am not big fan of trik houses. I dislike it. For me Trines indicate Massive Prosperity , luck , smooth life. Had the Jupiter been in 9th house ( Aquarius) it would have been Diamond for the native or Jupiter in good house would have been better.

But whatever you have said it like " weakness of 10th house does not indicate harshness in career" is absolutely true .

Rishi Ji, one small point here, Rishi Ji we all are fans of the Great Bhava chart, we get good happiness if planets are placed in good Bhavas rather than Trik Houses, though Trik it is necessary not that bad, but when compared to fortunes , it cannot equal the Kendras or Trines .
So there will be some weakness to the planets placed in trik houses.

Rishi Ji, In april of this YEAR  , my father was diagnosed TB + CANCER. In my chart 9th lord mercury is in 12th house. I never shared close relationship with my father. My mother is my strength , why??? Because mars 4th lord is exalted in lagna.
In January my friends mother got brain stoke and there were clots in her brain , though she recovered. My friends chart is Meena Lagna and Mercury the 4th and 7th lord is in 12th house.

Recent fresh news: Rishi ji , i told you about my family astrologer predicting that my cousin will not live with his parents after the age of 16yrs.

Here is the update , Yesterday , the cousins father yesterday had massive brain stroke and he is ICU , ventilator support. He is in comma. Chances of his survival is not less than 5%. The cousins chart has mercury the 9th lord in 8th house, they never shared good relationship and now his father is under massive health threat.


Thank You

Good analysis, Vijayan.

Yes, Jupiter would have done better if it was not in trik house.

Your family astrologer was really sharp in his predictions...!
I will come up with the new chart analysis soon.

Sorry for the unfortunate news of your father.

RishiRahul

[RishiRahul]

Rishi Ji, i am posting the details of my Uncle as i said before. I know him very well, i can give as much details about him ....


His details:

1st August 1958
10: 25 am
Nagpur, Maharashtra
Longitude: 79 : 6 E
Latitude: 21 9 N

Lagna: Kanya

brief background about the native:

Sir, he was an average  student till 8th class and after that started his turning point. He became a Bright student after that

His education qualification is he did Bsc from Nagpur University, later Msc(Gold Medalist) from Nagpur University . In 1982 June , he went to US for doing MS from Miami University and PHD from Harvard University.After that he became Professor and later Dean for the concerned department.

In our family he is the most powerful achiever .

Rishi Ji, any more details , i am ready to give .

Thank You

Dear Vijayan,

The bhava in the above chart does not change when equal house or Sripathi is in consideration.
But it does change if placidius with bhava arambha is taken.

Since the bhavas do not change in the other methods it will not be a good bhava change study.

Rasi chart=The native has done his higher education abroad, & is also working there= In the rasi chart lagna & 10th lord mercury is the 12th. house= this fits well.
The 4th lord Jupiter is with Rahu, & the 9th. lord Venus is in the 10th in a movable sign. The houses for education are indicating studies abroad.

Bhava chart= The 12th lord Sun moves to the 10th conjunct venus; while the mercury in the 12th. moves to the 11th.=
This 'may' or 'may not' mean that the native may have 2 strong careers at a late age.
May not decide to remain abroad in entirety, as the 4th. lord Jupiter is with rahu (moved to lagna bhav).

The shifting of the Sun to the 10th. may have something to do with him becoming the Dean and or succeeding/ascending so well in career life abroad...?!

Of course, the above can be deciphered from the rasi chart also; but from bhava we get additional flavours.

What has been his field of research & career?

RishiRahul

[vijiyan]

Rishi Rahul Ji , Thanks for the analysis.

Rishi ji, one important point here, in sripathi system , Moon moves to 5th house , indicating daughters. He has two daughters, no sons  .

Rishi ji , sun moving to 10th house in Bhava arambha might  not be correct. The powerful Venus has helped him . Rishi ji, on important point here, that he spends a lot on spiritual activites , and also some  other things. Sun, 12th lord in 11th house indicates depletion in income source through means of expenditure. Moon in 5th house aspects its own house, so he was saved by it. Though he earns well but also spends equally...Though not debt ridden but still he has lot expenditure. Sun 12th lord in 10th house indicates weakness in career and that has not happened to him as far as  i know.

Rishi ji, with respect to career house, there is no change in Bhava chart as said by you. . But the planets which are in Rasi as well bhava chart makes the house very strong with accordance to the positivity or negativity  of the house.

Rishi Ji, his daughters are Americans , they are studying there. His wife is doing software job. His mother is staying with him for the past
20-  25years. It may be not that easy to come back to India. Though he is spiritually interested , comes every year  to India with respect to his work purpose and also active participation  for chinmayananda Trust or organization. He actively takes part in the spiritual activities .

His research/career is BioStatistics

[vijiyan]

Rishi Ji, i can post more birth details which shows desirable results in bhava chart . I do not want to hurry and make you uncomfortable.

If given a chance next time i will post the birth details of my friend who is an IPS officer and has been inducted into the service recently, and his lagna lord placement changes from 9th house to 8th house and his personality gives clear picture with accordance to Bhava chart .

[RishiRahul]

Rishi Rahul Ji , Thanks for the analysis.

Rishi ji, one important point here, in sripathi system , Moon moves to 5th house , indicating daughters. He has two daughters, no sons  .

Rishi ji , sun moving to 10th house in Bhava arambha might  not be correct. The powerful Venus has helped him . Rishi ji, on important point here, that he spends a lot on spiritual activites , and also some  other things. Sun, 12th lord in 11th house indicates depletion in income source through means of expenditure. Moon in 5th house aspects its own house, so he was saved by it. Though he earns well but also spends equally...Though not debt ridden but still he has lot expenditure. Sun 12th lord in 10th house indicates weakness in career and that has not happened to him as far as  i know.

Rishi ji, with respect to career house, there is no change in Bhava chart as said by you. . But the planets which are in Rasi as well bhava chart makes the house very strong with accordance to the positivity or negativity  of the house.

Rishi Ji, his daughters are Americans , they are studying there. His wife is doing software job. His mother is staying with him for the past
20-  25years. It may be not that easy to come back to India. Though he is spiritually interested , comes every year  to India with respect to his work purpose and also active participation  for chinmayananda Trust or organization. He actively takes part in the spiritual activities .

His research/career is BioStatistics

Rishi Ji, i can post more birth details which shows desirable results in bhava chart . I do not want to hurry and make you uncomfortable.

If given a chance next time i will post the birth details of my friend who is an IPS officer and has been inducted into the service recently, and his lagna lord placement changes from 9th house to 8th house and his personality gives clear picture with accordance to Bhava chart .

Vijayan,

Your analysis & others make me understand that the bhava arambha theory is not practical; while Sripati is.

Of course, you can post birth details. Surely others and or myself will respond when we have the time. You do not need my permission for it/them

Thanks,

RishiRahul

[Rohiniranjan]

Rishi Rahul Ji , Thanks for the analysis.

Rishi ji, one important point here, in sripathi system , Moon moves to 5th house , indicating daughters. He has two daughters, no sons  .

Rishi ji , sun moving to 10th house in Bhava arambha might  not be correct. The powerful Venus has helped him . Rishi ji, on important point here, that he spends a lot on spiritual activites , and also some  other things. Sun, 12th lord in 11th house indicates depletion in income source through means of expenditure. Moon in 5th house aspects its own house, so he was saved by it. Though he earns well but also spends equally...Though not debt ridden but still he has lot expenditure. Sun 12th lord in 10th house indicates weakness in career and that has not happened to him as far as  i know.

Rishi ji, with respect to career house, there is no change in Bhava chart as said by you. . But the planets which are in Rasi as well bhava chart makes the house very strong with accordance to the positivity or negativity  of the house.

Rishi Ji, his daughters are Americans , they are studying there. His wife is doing software job. His mother is staying with him for the past
20-  25years. It may be not that easy to come back to India. Though he is spiritually interested , comes every year  to India with respect to his work purpose and also active participation  for chinmayananda Trust or organization. He actively takes part in the spiritual activities .

His research/career is BioStatistics

Rishi Ji, i can post more birth details which shows desirable results in bhava chart . I do not want to hurry and make you uncomfortable.

If given a chance next time i will post the birth details of my friend who is an IPS officer and has been inducted into the service recently, and his lagna lord placement changes from 9th house to 8th house and his personality gives clear picture with accordance to Bhava chart .

Vijayan,

Your analysis & others make me understand that the bhava arambha theory is not practical; while Sripati is.

Of course, you can post birth details. Surely others and or myself will respond when we have the time. You do not need my permission for it/them

Thanks,

RishiRahul

Rishi,

Why do you say that bhavarambha does not work! In the KP chart, moon too moves to the fifth house! If one were to use that as a factor indicating daughters! It does so in the equal house configuration too! There is also an interesting feature by that perspective! The 12th house (stay abroad, migration) contains the pada of 4th (roots of home and sukha), whereas the pada of 12th house falls in the tenth house! A rather interesting exchange of padas! Lagnesh mercury is placed in the 11th where padas of 1st and 9th are placed. 9th represents bhagya, higher education and long travels (often indicating foreign travel). And, that is not all! The pada (root) of the 10th house falls in the 2nd house (Kutumba)! Venus is lord of 2nd (neutral house) and 9th and forms a union with sun in the 10th house! So, one attuned to and comfortable with bhavarambha would find several hints in these multiple indications, the success in life, in a foreign land and the progeny! Indicators also exist for these in the navamsha which is often taken as a chart for strong indications (navamsha gets high weight in the vimshopaka bala scheme as you know and often goes and shows more than just its primary conventional meaning of spouse/marriage, etc! In it venus lord of progeny and 12th is united with saturn lord of 8th (research) and 9th navamshas in the 10th house of navamsha and in exaltation! Saturn in 5th can also indicate daughters because it is in a female (even) sign and its lord is in saptamamsha lagna in an even rashi, that of moon! The birth of the children were possibly associated with some difficulty around childbirth, but were preceeded or followed by a rise in life-achievements. But not being attuned to the house system, I may be only picking up few signals, though there may be more! Also interesting is the signal that putrakaraka mercury is place in the 11 th house an even sign zone and aspecting the fifth house an even sign zone which contains moon!

From the whole sign house configuration, which gives more weight to the actual location of a planet in the actual sign, we have the Lord of 12th placed in 11th, which on one hand points towards good earnings in a foreign setting but also lots of expenditures and since the padas of 1st and 9th are there, we will treat them as indications pointing towards successes in foreign land. Note also that lord of fourth (home) is placed in 2nd house with rahu which indicates a long association with foreign cultures and countries. Karaka of 5th house mercury is placed in the 12th house and aspected by saturn which is retrograde (strengthening factor) and lord of fifth house. Saturn's aspect on gulika (also in 12th house) seems to have an effect of reduction of maleficience of gulika, as noted by me, earlier in this thread.

So, my humble suggestion is that it is pointless to hold too strong opinions about all of these different ways of looking at a chart or house systems etc. The magical thing (undeniably) in astrology is that it can reveal meaningful patterns to different astrologers with different preferences, capable of providing similar conclusions. To *A* it may seem as post-hoc "fitting", and it might well be so, but then again, if we can see similar conclusions through practice, one way of seeing is not superior to the other, although it may seem so to one or the other person.

The critical and crucial FACT is that we should become familiar with one or two ways (house systems for instance!) and use those consistently, and my belief is that the charts will speak to us. Why or how is the lila of astrology! It sadly also gives fodder for the sceptics who are convinced, without even trying, that astrology is unreal, and worse! Their problem!!

Oversimplification is where our main stumbling block is, potentially! One should not stop at just the superficial layer of 12 houses and 9 planets, but learn and become comfortable with padas, karakas, vargas and other vital parts of the technical matrix, including at least some of the concepts of KP.

I hope folks are connecting to the 'essence' of what I am sharing from my observations and which hopefully I am expressing clearly and succinctly!

Otherwise, we will just continue to beat our heads and debate and argue and will do the same again, next year and year after year, till cows come home!

Love, Light, Observations,

Rohiniranjan

[vijiyan]

Vijayan,

Your analysis & others make me understand that the bhava arambha theory is not practical; while Sripati is.

Of course, you can post birth details. Surely others and or myself will respond when we have the time. You do not need my permission for it/them

Thanks,

RishiRahul

Dear Rishi Rahul Ji,
                                   Please don't say like that. I apologize for my comments. I was just giving a opinion . I mean i don't have an individual opinion of the different forms of bhava chart .  I am blindly following sripathi system due to my belief in that astrologer. .
Rishi Ji, you are an excellent astrologer who gave me the best prediction that no one else has given and i treasured that prediction even today and will continue to do so. I am no one to say that this system is right or that system is wrong.

Rishi Ji, please follow your heart . We all Love You....

[Rohiniranjan]

Vijayan,

Your analysis & others make me understand that the bhava arambha theory is not practical; while Sripati is.

Of course, you can post birth details. Surely others and or myself will respond when we have the time. You do not need my permission for it/them

Thanks,

RishiRahul

Dear Rishi Rahul Ji,
                                   Please don't say like that. I apologize for my comments. I was just giving a opinion . I mean i don't have an individual opinion of the different forms of bhava chart .  I am blindly following sripathi system due to my belief in that astrologer. .
Rishi Ji, you are an excellent astrologer who gave me the best prediction that no one else has given and i treasured that prediction even today and will continue to do so. I am no one to say that this system is right or that system is wrong.

Rishi Ji, please follow your heart . We all Love You....

Do You? Have YOU Vijiyan ji??

Followed YOUR heart?  :smt004

RR

[RishiRahul]

Rishi Rahul Ji , Thanks for the analysis.

Rishi ji, one important point here, in sripathi system , Moon moves to 5th house , indicating daughters. He has two daughters, no sons  .

Rishi ji , sun moving to 10th house in Bhava arambha might  not be correct. The powerful Venus has helped him . Rishi ji, on important point here, that he spends a lot on spiritual activites , and also some  other things. Sun, 12th lord in 11th house indicates depletion in income source through means of expenditure. Moon in 5th house aspects its own house, so he was saved by it. Though he earns well but also spends equally...Though not debt ridden but still he has lot expenditure. Sun 12th lord in 10th house indicates weakness in career and that has not happened to him as far as  i know.

Rishi ji, with respect to career house, there is no change in Bhava chart as said by you. . But the planets which are in Rasi as well bhava chart makes the house very strong with accordance to the positivity or negativity  of the house.

Rishi Ji, his daughters are Americans , they are studying there. His wife is doing software job. His mother is staying with him for the past
20-  25years. It may be not that easy to come back to India. Though he is spiritually interested , comes every year  to India with respect to his work purpose and also active participation  for chinmayananda Trust or organization. He actively takes part in the spiritual activities .

His research/career is BioStatistics

Vijayan,

On second thoughts, just wondering:-

Depends upon the ayanamsa & variables one is following.

I was following (1)lahiri ayanamsa with pacidus & lagna as bhavaarambha.
Using 'lahiri atanamsa' with 'solar years as 360 days', the Sripathi or equal house bhavas do not change.
But moon moves to the 5th. house in (1).

Does moon always stand for daughters? Even if it does, it doesnt confirm anything regarding sex or number of children.
If it does then (1) is supported.
Even if this is in Sripathi (1) is supported.

I wonder if the12th. lord Sun in the 10th. decreaes spirituality?

12th also stands for expenses & foreign settlement. That being in the 10th can incresae both mentioned significations.
9th lord Venus conjunct 12th lord Sun in 10th= Wouldnt this increase job with foreign more? than just Venus in the 10th.

Since he is linked/much attracted to spirituality, Ketu dasa may pull him there more.
While doing data research 'mights' & 'mays' should be avoided, though possibilities are not unimportanl.

The rasi always happen; the bhava says it better. That is: the rasi significations are not denied.

When comparing bhava, one should take the rasi as a 'Constant'.

RishiRahul

[RishiRahul]

Vijayan,

Your analysis & others make me understand that the bhava arambha theory is not practical; while Sripati is.

Of course, you can post birth details. Surely others and or myself will respond when we have the time. You do not need my permission for it/them

Thanks,

RishiRahul

Dear Rishi Rahul Ji,
                                   Please don't say like that. I apologize for my comments. I was just giving a opinion . I mean i don't have an individual opinion of the different forms of bhava chart .  I am blindly following sripathi system due to my belief in that astrologer. .
Rishi Ji, you are an excellent astrologer who gave me the best prediction that no one else has given and i treasured that prediction even today and will continue to do so. I am no one to say that this system is right or that system is wrong.

Rishi Ji, please follow your heart . We all Love You....

Thanks.

RishiRahul

[RishiRahul]

Rishi Rahul Ji , Thanks for the analysis.

Rishi ji, one important point here, in sripathi system , Moon moves to 5th house , indicating daughters. He has two daughters, no sons  .

Rishi ji , sun moving to 10th house in Bhava arambha might  not be correct. The powerful Venus has helped him . Rishi ji, on important point here, that he spends a lot on spiritual activites , and also some  other things. Sun, 12th lord in 11th house indicates depletion in income source through means of expenditure. Moon in 5th house aspects its own house, so he was saved by it. Though he earns well but also spends equally...Though not debt ridden but still he has lot expenditure. Sun 12th lord in 10th house indicates weakness in career and that has not happened to him as far as  i know.

Rishi ji, with respect to career house, there is no change in Bhava chart as said by you. . But the planets which are in Rasi as well bhava chart makes the house very strong with accordance to the positivity or negativity  of the house.

Rishi Ji, his daughters are Americans , they are studying there. His wife is doing software job. His mother is staying with him for the past
20-  25years. It may be not that easy to come back to India. Though he is spiritually interested , comes every year  to India with respect to his work purpose and also active participation  for chinmayananda Trust or organization. He actively takes part in the spiritual activities .

His research/career is BioStatistics

Rishi Ji, i can post more birth details which shows desirable results in bhava chart . I do not want to hurry and make you uncomfortable.

If given a chance next time i will post the birth details of my friend who is an IPS officer and has been inducted into the service recently, and his lagna lord placement changes from 9th house to 8th house and his personality gives clear picture with accordance to Bhava chart .

Vijayan,

Your analysis & others make me understand that the bhava arambha theory is not practical; while Sripati is.

Of course, you can post birth details. Surely others and or myself will respond when we have the time. You do not need my permission for it/them

Thanks,

RishiRahul

Rishi,

Why do you say that bhavarambha does not work! In the KP chart, moon too moves to the fifth house! If one were to use that as a factor indicating daughters! It does so in the equal house configuration too! There is also an interesting feature by that perspective!
The 12th house (stay abroad, migration) contains the pada of 4th (roots of home and sukha), whereas the pada of 12th house falls in the tenth house! A rather interesting exchange of padas! Lagnesh mercury is placed in the 11th where padas of 1st and 9th are placed. 9th represents bhagya, higher education and long travels (often indicating foreign travel). And, that is not all! The pada (root) of the 10th house falls in the 2nd house (Kutumba)! Venus is lord of 2nd (neutral house) and 9th and forms a union with sun in the 10th house! So, one attuned to and comfortable with bhavarambha would find several hints in these multiple indications, the success in life, in a foreign land and the progeny! Indicators also exist for these in the navamsha which is often taken as a chart for strong indications (navamsha gets high weight in the vimshopaka bala scheme as you know and often goes and shows more than just its primary conventional meaning of spouse/marriage, etc! In it venus lord of progeny and 12th is united with saturn lord of 8th (research) and 9th navamshas in the 10th house of navamsha and in exaltation! Saturn in 5th can also indicate daughters because it is in a female (even) sign and its lord is in saptamamsha lagna in an even rashi, that of moon! The birth of the children were possibly associated with some difficulty around childbirth, but were preceeded or followed by a rise in life-achievements. But not being attuned to the house system, I may be only picking up few signals, though there may be more! Also interesting is the signal that putrakaraka mercury is place in the 11 th house an even sign zone and aspecting the fifth house an even sign zone which contains moon!

From the whole sign house configuration, which gives more weight to the actual location of a planet in the actual sign, we have the Lord of 12th placed in 11th, which on one hand points towards good earnings in a foreign setting but also lots of expenditures and since the padas of 1st and 9th are there, we will treat them as indications pointing towards successes in foreign land. Note also that lord of fourth (home) is placed in 2nd house with rahu which indicates a long association with foreign cultures and countries. Karaka of 5th house mercury is placed in the 12th house and aspected by saturn which is retrograde (strengthening factor) and lord of fifth house. Saturn's aspect on gulika (also in 12th house) seems to have an effect of reduction of maleficience of gulika, as noted by me, earlier in this thread.

So, my humble suggestion is that it is pointless to hold too strong opinions about all of these different ways of looking at a chart or house systems etc. The magical thing (undeniably) in astrology is that it can reveal meaningful patterns to different astrologers with different preferences, capable of providing similar conclusions. To *A* it may seem as post-hoc "fitting", and it might well be so, but then again, if we can see similar conclusions through practice, one way of seeing is not superior to the other, although it may seem so to one or the other person.

The critical and crucial FACT is that we should become familiar with one or two ways (house systems for instance!) and use those consistently, and my belief is that the charts will speak to us. Why or how is the lila of astrology! It sadly also gives fodder for the sceptics who are convinced, without even trying, that astrology is unreal, and worse! Their problem!!

Oversimplification is where our main stumbling block is, potentially! One should not stop at just the superficial layer of 12 houses and 9 planets, but learn and become comfortable with padas, karakas, vargas and other vital parts of the technical matrix, including at least some of the concepts of KP.

I hope folks are connecting to the 'essence' of what I am sharing from my observations and which hopefully I am expressing clearly and succinctly!

Otherwise, we will just continue to beat our heads and debate and argue and will do the same again, next year and year after year, till cows come home!

Love, Light, Observations,

Rohiniranjan

Dada,

It depends upon the variables one is following; like ayanamsa & definition of years in dasas.

Yes, a good Sun in the 10th would highlight rich spiritual interests/mind.

Also while comparing bhavas the Rasi should be treated as a 'Constant'.
If we treat the Rasi as a constant, we shouldnt touch padas as its bhava comparison.
But instead  if we start comparing rasi with bhava, we will get nowhere, but confuse the Real Essence of the discussion.

Oh! how did my writing come up in bold...?
Thanks for the encouraging post.


Rishi

[vijiyan]

Vijayan,

On second thoughts, just wondering:-

Depends upon the ayanamsa & variables one is following.

I was following (1)lahiri ayanamsa with pacidus & lagna as bhavaarambha.
Using 'lahiri atanamsa' with 'solar years as 360 days', the Sripathi or equal house bhavas do not change.
But moon moves to the 5th. house in (1).

Does moon always stand for daughters? Even if it does, it doesnt confirm anything regarding sex or number of children.
If it does then (1) is supported.
Even if this is in Sripathi (1) is supported.

I wonder if the12th. lord Sun in the 10th. decreaes spirituality?

12th also stands for expenses & foreign settlement. That being in the 10th can incresae both mentioned significations.
9th lord Venus conjunct 12th lord Sun in 10th= Wouldnt this increase job with foreign more? than just Venus in the 10th.

Since he is linked/much attracted to spirituality, Ketu dasa may pull him there more.
While doing data research 'mights' & 'mays' should be avoided, though possibilities are not unimportanl.

The rasi always happen; the bhava says it better. That is: the rasi significations are not denied.

When comparing bhava, one should take the rasi as a 'Constant'.

RishiRahul

Dear Rishi Rahul Ji, Thanks for your thoughts . If you look at Rasi chart , 5th house is aspected by Sun and Saturn. At least Sun's aspect would have got him male child. Saturn's aspect would have got daughters. Rishi Ji, i read somewhere that Feminine planet like Moon and Venus in 5th house gives more chances of daughters than son. Moon represents Mother, feminine side of human. Women are basically delicate and have gentle feelings. They say Suns aspect or Suns placement in 5th house gives higher chances of male children. Other day , i was seeing some chart , i asked the native she must be definitely having male children as Sun is exalted in 5th house , she said she has twins , one male and one female. So it is not 100% confirmation to give prediction . But in my opinion it will at least give some hints as whether they will have sons or daughters . In barack Obama's chart , Moon is in 5th house in Rasi chart, in bhava chart , venus is in 5th house. So either way a feminine planet occupies 5th house, he was blessed with 2 daughters.

In my chart Moon the 7th lord is in lagna along with mars the 4th lord, so chances are high that i will have support of women more than men. It is not a 100% indication but hints can be availed through planetary position.

Rishi Ji, If sun comes to 10th house , then mercury will come to 11th house , indicating that he is not spiritual as well he is not in foreign country , as Mercury in 12th house indicates that he will go abroad.

Rishi ji, in my earnest opinion functional Malefic if posited in good houses will bring weakness. Venus is just a planet but the lordship it owns makes it a strong planet . Like it owns 9th house , so it has become powerful by being in 10th house. Rishi Ji, if he just did under graduation studies , he would have settled in a lesser way . Because his 9th house and its lord are strong , he got maximum opportunity to study Higher education. Along with this he had lagna lord and career lord  in 12th house, so he was very much interested to do job abroad. Rishi ji, he has spiritual interest , due to the lagna lord's placement in 12th house. As we see many seers or sages have planets in 12th house. Lagna lord occupying any houses , becomes the integral part of his nature, as planet absorbs the quality of that house.
But to get clarity needs more experience and more analysis.

Rishi ji, Jhora Author has Lagna lord in 8th house, so he is pretty much interested in occult abilities. My friend has his lagna lord in 8th house, but he is interested in illegal activities and does them. But how to find the difference whether which one of them has interest in Occult studies and which one wants scandals or hidden things. Both are hidden in their own ways but to get specific answer the person has to get good skills to judge the chart.

Thank You

[Rohiniranjan]

Rishi Rahul Ji , Thanks for the analysis.

Rishi ji, one important point here, in sripathi system , Moon moves to 5th house , indicating daughters. He has two daughters, no sons  .

Rishi ji , sun moving to 10th house in Bhava arambha might  not be correct. The powerful Venus has helped him . Rishi ji, on important point here, that he spends a lot on spiritual activites , and also some  other things. Sun, 12th lord in 11th house indicates depletion in income source through means of expenditure. Moon in 5th house aspects its own house, so he was saved by it. Though he earns well but also spends equally...Though not debt ridden but still he has lot expenditure. Sun 12th lord in 10th house indicates weakness in career and that has not happened to him as far as  i know.

Rishi ji, with respect to career house, there is no change in Bhava chart as said by you. . But the planets which are in Rasi as well bhava chart makes the house very strong with accordance to the positivity or negativity  of the house.

Rishi Ji, his daughters are Americans , they are studying there. His wife is doing software job. His mother is staying with him for the past
20-  25years. It may be not that easy to come back to India. Though he is spiritually interested , comes every year  to India with respect to his work purpose and also active participation  for chinmayananda Trust or organization. He actively takes part in the spiritual activities .

His research/career is BioStatistics

Rishi Ji, i can post more birth details which shows desirable results in bhava chart . I do not want to hurry and make you uncomfortable.

If given a chance next time i will post the birth details of my friend who is an IPS officer and has been inducted into the service recently, and his lagna lord placement changes from 9th house to 8th house and his personality gives clear picture with accordance to Bhava chart .

Vijayan,

Your analysis & others make me understand that the bhava arambha theory is not practical; while Sripati is.

Of course, you can post birth details. Surely others and or myself will respond when we have the time. You do not need my permission for it/them

Thanks,

RishiRahul

Rishi,

Why do you say that bhavarambha does not work! In the KP chart, moon too moves to the fifth house! If one were to use that as a factor indicating daughters! It does so in the equal house configuration too! There is also an interesting feature by that perspective!
The 12th house (stay abroad, migration) contains the pada of 4th (roots of home and sukha), whereas the pada of 12th house falls in the tenth house! A rather interesting exchange of padas! Lagnesh mercury is placed in the 11th where padas of 1st and 9th are placed. 9th represents bhagya, higher education and long travels (often indicating foreign travel). And, that is not all! The pada (root) of the 10th house falls in the 2nd house (Kutumba)! Venus is lord of 2nd (neutral house) and 9th and forms a union with sun in the 10th house! So, one attuned to and comfortable with bhavarambha would find several hints in these multiple indications, the success in life, in a foreign land and the progeny! Indicators also exist for these in the navamsha which is often taken as a chart for strong indications (navamsha gets high weight in the vimshopaka bala scheme as you know and often goes and shows more than just its primary conventional meaning of spouse/marriage, etc! In it venus lord of progeny and 12th is united with saturn lord of 8th (research) and 9th navamshas in the 10th house of navamsha and in exaltation! Saturn in 5th can also indicate daughters because it is in a female (even) sign and its lord is in saptamamsha lagna in an even rashi, that of moon! The birth of the children were possibly associated with some difficulty around childbirth, but were preceeded or followed by a rise in life-achievements. But not being attuned to the house system, I may be only picking up few signals, though there may be more! Also interesting is the signal that putrakaraka mercury is place in the 11 th house an even sign zone and aspecting the fifth house an even sign zone which contains moon!

From the whole sign house configuration, which gives more weight to the actual location of a planet in the actual sign, we have the Lord of 12th placed in 11th, which on one hand points towards good earnings in a foreign setting but also lots of expenditures and since the padas of 1st and 9th are there, we will treat them as indications pointing towards successes in foreign land. Note also that lord of fourth (home) is placed in 2nd house with rahu which indicates a long association with foreign cultures and countries. Karaka of 5th house mercury is placed in the 12th house and aspected by saturn which is retrograde (strengthening factor) and lord of fifth house. Saturn's aspect on gulika (also in 12th house) seems to have an effect of reduction of maleficience of gulika, as noted by me, earlier in this thread.

So, my humble suggestion is that it is pointless to hold too strong opinions about all of these different ways of looking at a chart or house systems etc. The magical thing (undeniably) in astrology is that it can reveal meaningful patterns to different astrologers with different preferences, capable of providing similar conclusions. To *A* it may seem as post-hoc "fitting", and it might well be so, but then again, if we can see similar conclusions through practice, one way of seeing is not superior to the other, although it may seem so to one or the other person.

The critical and crucial FACT is that we should become familiar with one or two ways (house systems for instance!) and use those consistently, and my belief is that the charts will speak to us. Why or how is the lila of astrology! It sadly also gives fodder for the sceptics who are convinced, without even trying, that astrology is unreal, and worse! Their problem!!

Oversimplification is where our main stumbling block is, potentially! One should not stop at just the superficial layer of 12 houses and 9 planets, but learn and become comfortable with padas, karakas, vargas and other vital parts of the technical matrix, including at least some of the concepts of KP.

I hope folks are connecting to the 'essence' of what I am sharing from my observations and which hopefully I am expressing clearly and succinctly!

Otherwise, we will just continue to beat our heads and debate and argue and will do the same again, next year and year after year, till cows come home!

Love, Light, Observations,

Rohiniranjan

Dada,

It depends upon the variables one is following; like ayanamsa & definition of years in dasas.

Yes, a good Sun in the 10th would highlight rich spiritual interests/mind.

Also while comparing bhavas the Rasi should be treated as a 'Constant'.
If we treat the Rasi as a constant, we shouldnt touch padas as its bhava comparison.
But instead  if we start comparing rasi with bhava, we will get nowhere, but confuse the Real Essence of the discussion.

Oh! how did my writing come up in bold...?
Thanks for the encouraging post.


Rishi

Rishi,

It seems like there are two or more parallel tracks running with this thread
The curious and somewhat flummoxing thing is that even using different parameters, different jyotishis often can and do come to the same bottom line. Waving our hands and calling it intuition would be wrong, since they all are using technical approach (left brain thinking), but assisting it is input from right brain which picks on 'patterns' and steers the eyes and minds to threads in the skein and matrix (like a multi-coloured, multi-layered sweater or mesh-blanket). Hence it is important to stay calm and becoming really familiar with ones bag of tools. Remember, these are analogies and not perfect description of reality of astroanalysis which is way more complex and we perhaps do not even fully understand how it works or is done, even while doing it with good success. I have sometimes likened astrology as learning to drive a car or even a bicycle. At first there are falls, the coordination is lacking, one tends to focus on one factor at a time, but with constant practice it does become fluid and runs smoothly! It does not mean that the rider may never fall or the driver may never make a mistake or the astrologer too for that matter. Since we are talking cars, some of us first learned to drive manual transmission (stick shift) or in other words calculated charts by hand and proportional log tables and later on calculators, before driving automatic transmission (astrology software). So the move was easier, than for those who have go the other way, for instance travelling in other countries where automatic transmission rentals are very few in availability! Or in case of astrology, we are stuck on an island and our laptop battery dies or something making the software inoperable just before we need to do a horary to find out when the hell will be be rescued from our marooned state <LOL>

I too have seen this many times that rashi (WSHS) and chalita (E or UEHS) &nbsp;are not mutually-exclusive entities! Moon in fifth giving zero daughters and sometimes mars in fifth in virgo moving to fourth giving a first born who has mars in lagna, etc etc.

Sometimes dasa and bhukti lords and their connection etc just do not correlate with a certain event. Some folks panic and begin twiddling with ayanamshas to *make it fit* but had they dug a bit deeper or differently, say taking padas and vargas into account, the reasoning and correlation and connection would have become visible! The school of hard-knocks makes us learn in astrology too, just as life itself!

Lot of people and even senior astrologers forbid their acolytes etc to not mix jaimini with parasara etc. I could never understand or accept that! The sun is sun whether in rashi or varga or jaimini or parasara and house is house and also pada! The sun is lord of fifth but also associated with a pada as its lord and also has three hats in karakattwa!

Sorry for the sermon! Happy New Year All,

Rohiniranjan