Introducing myself and asking about Venus gender

[Carmen6]

Dear members of this forum,
I come from Germany and Spain but I recently discovered Vedic Astrology and would like to learn even with possible language obstacles.
I was reviewing today all about Shukra and I read in some sites it has a female planet gender but when I read about its mythology it turns out to be a male god or Lord.
It is a little bit confusing.
Is here any specific lesson on Shukra with all kind of information like significations, diseases, physical features, transits,...? Just to compare with my notes.

Kind regards,
Carmen

[Certain]

Venus is male gender and has expertise over 'feminine energy'. That is why you see this ambiguity. In the cosmic life one is supposed to master both energies masculine and feminine. Even being a male people do hospitality profession, are care workers etc. They are souls in males' bodies mastering or honing the feminine energy of the universe in that life. Nothing derogatory , it is required for all. You will see women police officers who do exactly opposite. It is easy to practice feminine energy when you are woman as you are helped by your genetic constitution but when you are born in man's body...you get the task to do both while living a man's life to maintain masculine enrgy and then doing a job which requires switching effectively to feminine energy everyday as and when required for the profession. Latter is your proof of mastering it. Venus is that male God/ Acharya who mastered feminine energy.

Regards
Siya

[Rohiniranjan]

Welcome back, Siya! We have missed your sharings, profound always.

But is what you described not true for ALL planets for isn't traditionally, astrology typically about BINARY? DUALITY? But when we apply it far and wide, realistically at some point it begins trusting our sincere attempts and begins to reveal to us its GREY (or GRAY? ) reality?

Mythology is great and wonderful but over-reliance on it in the Jyotish framework can lead to mixed messages and even wrong directions!

The GPS of reality is better and that can only kick in when we OPEN ourselves and begin giving readings, seriously and sincerely!

Everyone complains these days that they do not have time and more important things demand their attention. I did that too, for a very long time, but now older and hopefully wiser and a bit deafer (otosclerosis, a virus may be?), I feel otherwise, than I did even five years ago!

Love and Light!

Rohiniranjan

[Carmen6]

Dear Siya, dear Rohiniranjan and all,
I don't know. Today I was thinking more in Rohiniranjan's direction, towards the principle of duality in relation with the hermetic meaning rather towards a simple bisexuality that is able to master the opposite energy when in opposite body (Mars don't has this ability but should if it is opposed to Venus). There is a little clue, Shukra is son of Bhigra, creator of Astrology, isn't he? So we can start by that, that all the astrology systems are based on duality and opposition. I read today about Shiva and Shakti for the first time and I think the deep meaning of Shukra is like a reflection or inheritance of that divine duality, I mean the result of that duality or unión is life, love.

Then we have similar references in other traditions. In Sumer Shukra is Inanna the male god and the morning star, but also Ishtar the female goddess as the evening star...

In the German or nordic mythology Shukra is Freya and has equally 2 dualities, one in herself being a female goddess and a warrior (more martial features) and at the same time she is a twin sister, there is again an opposition-union.

Shukra is female when opposed to Mangala, when expressed in numerology (6) then she is love, beauty,..., but Shukra is masculine when it comes to the color white, when  acting  with wisdom and magic.

And considering positive and negative energies inside, of course, like any other planet.

I am amazed about the many names that Shukra has in comparison to the Sun and the Moon that more or less have some similarity in different languages of the world, or at least connections. But, Venus, Afrodita, Shukra and the other 107 names, Inanna, Ishtar, Freya...wow! At least the issue about the duality is similar in different traditions.

Ok, forgive me if  today is for me not the best day to grasp this as I am fully envolved in female energy matters (maternity), so, please,  follow the thread if you have more thoughts or information about this deep meaning of Shukras duality but don't think bad about me if I don't answer or appear in some time. I started to have unexpected labour contractions, I hope though it's false alarm because I am due on the 1st July, but ...they are heavy and I can't sleep and that's why I am writing 4 o'clock in the morning in a forum...I will come as soon as possible to read your answers, I promise.



Kind regards,
Carmen

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear Carmen,

In a hindu scripture it is described that a great warrior learned about a complicated war-strategy when he was not born yet. His father was a great warrior too and was describing the strategy. Who knows, maybe you are training an astrologer-in making!

Think happy and loving thoughts for each birth is a miracle of life and love! May you have a safe and comfortable time in the rest of your journey (pregnancy). Luna, or moon is the most visible evidence of duality as we see it going from 0 to 100 and back to 0, each lunar month! Moon, the mother, too has this gender duality like venus. Moon has been called masculine as well as feminine. Mothers have a very important role in the development (even beyond pregnancy days) of human beings.

Love, Light, Restful Happy Thoughts!

Rohiniranjan

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear Siya, dear Rohiniranjan and all,
I don't know. Today I was thinking more in Rohiniranjan's direction, towards the principle of duality in relation with the hermetic meaning rather towards a simple bisexuality that is able to master the opposite energy when in opposite body (Mars don't has this ability but should if it is opposed to Venus). There is a little clue, Shukra is son of Bhigra, creator of Astrology, isn't he? So we can start by that, that all the astrology systems are based on duality and opposition. I read today about Shiva and Shakti for the first time and I think the deep meaning of Shukra is like a reflection or inheritance of that divine duality, I mean the result of that duality or unión is life, love.

Then we have similar references in other traditions. In Sumer Shukra is Inanna the male god and the morning star, but also Ishtar the female goddess as the evening star...

In the German or nordic mythology Shukra is Freya and has equally 2 dualities, one in herself being a female goddess and a warrior (more martial features) and at the same time she is a twin sister, there is again an opposition-union.

Shukra is female when opposed to Mangala, when expressed in numerology (6) then she is love, beauty,..., but Shukra is masculine when it comes to the color white, when  acting  with wisdom and magic.

And considering positive and negative energies inside, of course, like any other planet.

I am amazed about the many names that Shukra has in comparison to the Sun and the Moon that more or less have some similarity in different languages of the world, or at least connections. But, Venus, Afrodita, Shukra and the other 107 names, Inanna, Ishtar, Freya...wow! At least the issue about the duality is similar in different traditions.

Ok, forgive me if  today is for me not the best day to grasp this as I am fully envolved in female energy matters (maternity), so, please,  follow the thread if you have more thoughts or information about this deep meaning of Shukras duality but don't think bad about me if I don't answer or appear in some time. I started to have unexpected labour contractions, I hope though it's false alarm because I am due on the 1st July, but ...they are heavy and I can't sleep and that's why I am writing 4 o'clock in the morning in a forum...I will come as soon as possible to read your answers, I promise.

Kind regards,
Carmen

It is good that we are touching upon two very interesting areas of human experiential realty: Mythology and Astrology.

Traditional Astrology (occidental and oriental) have always been closely-knitted with mythology. Mythological symbolisms and stories make astrology, which can be otherwise bone-dry, a beautiful exploration, kind of like psychology (which, at least its traditional form did incorporate a lot of mythological symbolism). Mythological stories also help us memorize astrological information more readily and this is true for not just astrology, although the two: astrology and mythology do seem like good bed-fellows (as opposed to being strange bedfellows!).

But the timeline thing gives me a bit of consternations. During the development of human thinking and realization, which came first: Mythology or Astrology? This raises interesting questions. If Mythology came first, then obviously there was a time when humans did no know or were aware of astrology or were sky-aware, if we can coin that term.

If astrology came first, then were the early astrologers endowed with a lot of creative imagination and created the mythological tales? And rather beautifully linked the tales with their astrological studies and created an ingenious mnemonic or memory-aid?

Then there is a parallel track of questions. Did astrology evolve gradually (just as Science did and literary capabilities of the human race did too) or did it arrive with a BANG-ON Shazaam and revelation. The latter is strongly believed by many in the orient. That it is a revealed knowledge that came to the ancient sages.

In India there are many scriptural jyotish texts that had always been considered as part of the vedas and although we call it Jyotish in India, when Jyotish began reaching the occident it was given labels such as Vaidik (associated with Vedas) and even hindu astrology. Lately, a few individuals have been questioning that and claiming often with a lot of satire and sarcasm in their voice and claiming that it came from Mediterranean sources. The problem that I see is that many (All?) of the scriptural texts were spoken (Oral Tradition) and who really knows when FINALLY they got written down on leaves that were biodegradable and so copies had to be made so that the hot climate and termites etc do not get to those first. This is not disrespect, but stark natural reality!

Speaking for myself, personally, these questions that go back thousands of years if not longer in TIME are in a sense futile. We would perhaps never know, unless there IS an Akashic Record (like CLOUD computing in modern times, or ancient SKY DRIVES!) that some ingenious IT person or CODE-HEADs as they are lovingly called, might be able to decrypt the ancient TRACES in AEther (Akasha Tattwa which is ruled by Jupiter and is very closely linked to Sound-Dhwani!)

The pragmatic approach, if I may say so, is to not worry about the archio-history of paleo-astrology and focus on the current pursuit of separating the wheat from the chaff, as the saying goes! There is a lot of both: Wheat, as well as chaff!

I am thankful that folks are doing exactly that on this Jyotish forum, and possibly on the rest of the Mystic Board as well. As an old member here to a new member, I can assure you that you will like it very much!

Love and Light!

Rohiniranjan

[Carmen6]

Dear Rohiniranjan,
thank you! Sometimes like that warrior we need a part of our life to discover that we could have made plans before our birth and how we let traces and clues to retake a task...very mysterious and interesting! A pregnancy full of astrology clues and astrology callings made me think this child want's to say something too, perhaps she has plans too ;)
That's true about the Moon. This reminded me something in my childhood when I was moving constantly between Germany and Spain I was, as bilingual child a little bit upset and surprised by realizing that in both cultures the gender of Sun and Moon were changed or crossed with the article. How practical is English, with only " the " for everything,  you don't need to think on the gender of the nouns ha ha! "La luna" feminine in the spanish, latin world and "der Mond" masculine in the germanistic world. As many specialists in ethymology found out English and German languages have a lot of sanskrit heritance so no wonder Chandra चन्द्र has a general male appearance in the hindi mythology but has like Venus a female aspect and stands for all what is for women, birth,...No wonder as well that Surya is in some ancient hindu texts a goddess and in others a god, but some germanists think that the female article for Sun in German, "die Sonne" is something modern and for grammatical reasons, others are sure it is related to an ancient german sun godess.
Well,
as soon as I come back I will review your lessons and posts, until then thank you for your warm welcome!

Regards,
Carmen

[RishiRahul]

Dear Carmen6,

A very Warm welcome to Mysticboard! May your thoughts/knowledge get richer with the independence of thought you possess

RishiRahul

[Carmen6]

RishiRahul, it is an honour to meet you too, thank you!

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear Rohiniranjan,
thank you! Sometimes like that warrior we need a part of our life to discover that we could have made plans before our birth and how we let traces and clues to retake a task...very mysterious and interesting! A pregnancy full of astrology clues and astrology callings made me think this child want's to say something too, perhaps she has plans too ;)
That's true about the Moon. This reminded me something in my childhood when I was moving constantly between Germany and Spain I was, as bilingual child a little bit upset and surprised by realizing that in both cultures the gender of Sun and Moon were changed or crossed with the article. How practical is English, with only " the " for everything,  you don't need to think on the gender of the nouns ha ha! "La luna" feminine in the spanish, latin world and "der Mond" masculine in the germanistic world. As many specialists in ethymology found out English and German languages have a lot of sanskrit heritance so no wonder Chandra चन्द्र has a general male appearance in the hindi mythology but has like Venus a female aspect and stands for all what is for women, birth,...No wonder as well that Surya is in some ancient hindu texts a goddess and in others a god, but some germanists think that the female article for Sun in German, "die Sonne" is something modern and for grammatical reasons, others are sure it is related to an ancient german sun godess.
Well,
as soon as I come back I will review your lessons and posts, until then thank you for your warm welcome!

Regards,
Carmen

Unlike most spoken languages (at least where Grammar teachers in their classes are concerned ), the gender attributions in the *language* that astrology is, the gender duality is more fluid, as too are other dualities!

AStrology does specify genders for planets and for signs, at the very fundamental level, in a specific chart a planet interacts or rather expresses based on its placement and also the time-periods (dasa, bhukti etc) shape the 'expression' of the planets. At least when observing their PLAY or LEELA in the lives and experiences of nativities.

Thanks for your posting! This reminded me of something related that I had been intrigued by several years ago and recently raised at several fora, including here. It has to do with the varna classification ascribed in Jyotish framework. There too, though the initial premises indicate a rigidity (classification), but the same principles seem to provide valuable hints. The inherent characteristic or attribute, the milieu and the 'time-frame'. Planets, placements, time-period (planetary periods prevailing and the stage (ashram) of the nativity (age group)!

Regards and good luck!

Rohiniranjan

[Certain]

Welcome back, Siya! We have missed your sharings, profound always.

But is what you described not true for ALL planets for isn't traditionally, astrology typically about BINARY? DUALITY? But when we apply it far and wide, realistically at some point it begins trusting our sincere attempts and begins to reveal to us its GREY (or GRAY? ) reality?

Rohiniranjan

Thanks a lot

It doesnt have to be same for all the planets. Moon or Venus or us do not owe anything to one another to be mirror images  that way. I doubt this mythology is mythology at all.  
Sun or Moon or others different bodies operate at different framework of consciousness. Moon may have predominant feminine energy like venus , Mars may not have legitimately at all and not be apologetic about it as well.
That is fair, all is well as long as it is constructive and universe has some use of it.
As long as we can , we all resist changes which are compelling and monumental.When you split from consciousness as pure martain energy , it will take eons to walk to the opposite.
You never know today's mars could be next 'eon's / Kalpa 's Venus.
They have right and entitlement to growth like us ...Ha ha
When Bali would be Indra in Savarni Manvantra , you never know who will be assigned whose job.
'Brahma' is also a post or designation like 'Indra' according to same scriptures and not a constant name of a celestial being. Which means they change.
It is called Retirement or Stage shift (in a positive way)  :)
.
.

[Rohiniranjan]

Welcome back, Siya! We have missed your sharings, profound always.

But is what you described not true for ALL planets for isn't traditionally, astrology typically about BINARY? DUALITY? But when we apply it far and wide, realistically at some point it begins trusting our sincere attempts and begins to reveal to us its GREY (or GRAY? ) reality?

Rohiniranjan

Thanks a lot

It doesnt have to be same for all the planets. Moon or Venus or us do not owe anything to one another to be mirror images  that way. I doubt this mythology is mythology at all.  
Sun or Moon or others different bodies operate at different framework of consciousness. Moon may have predominant feminine energy like venus , Mars may not have legitimately at all and not be apologetic about it as well.
That is fair, all is well as long as it is constructive and universe has some use of it.
As long as we can , we all resist changes which are compelling and monumental.When you split from consciousness as pure martain energy , it will take eons to walk to the opposite.
You never know today's mars could be next 'eon's / Kalpa 's Venus.
They have right and entitlement to growth like us ...Ha ha
When Bali would be Indra in Savarni Manvantra , you never know who will be assigned whose job.
'Brahma' is also a post or designation like 'Indra' according to same scriptures and not a constant name of a celestial being. Which means they change.
It is called Retirement or Stage shift (in a positive way)  :)
.
.

No my dear friend, I think you are mixing too many metaphors here!

Returning to my proposal that duality is part and parcel of planets specifically and astrological factors in general:

Unless Pralaya occurs (NOT ANOTHER Y2K or MAYA MYTH, please...!), or humanity finds home in another galaxy or planet, but I think venus shall remain venus (astrologically speaking) whether applied to individuals or the same individual (actualized fragment of soul) in a different lifetime. The "change" will be reflected by way of different planets taking control (though I like to view astrological factors more as indicators than directors) and also different aspects of maturity that the human being displays as growth progresses.

Duality, therefore, will always remain and there is no 'type-casting'. Even saturn that is considered rigid displays duality, though its range or spectrum of duality (swing of the pendulum) might be less than that of the moon which displays it duality repeatedly but many dwellers in concrete jungles get to see it less often than those living in isolated communities such as the light-pollution protected parks further west.

Rohiniranjan

[Carmen6]

I'm back. My little one was born on the 28th of June,  she came very quick and without any complication  :smt002
Still reading about basics on jyotish and learning lot of terminology these days.

Regards,
Carmen

[Rohiniranjan]

I'm back. My little one was born on the 28th of June,  she came very quick and without any complication  :smt002
Still reading about basics on jyotish and learning lot of terminology these days.

Regards,
Carmen

Congratulations and very happy for you that everything went well and now hopefully you will continue to enjoy the joys of raising your bundle of joy and allow her to blossom as per her life-plan!

Love and Light and Blessings!

Rohiniranjan

[Carmen6]

Thank you very much Rohiniranjin!