Karako Bhava Nasha (KBN) - astro analysis and case studies

[Rohiniranjan]

Since it was said that the native got married in March 2012= I see dates between 13th March & 27 March 2012.

I wonder why there is an effort to link kbn with Vimshottari dasa? Do things happen this way?
The native got married in Venus antardasa anyway.

Kbn in the 7th may be a quality of the 7th house; while dasa is related to timings of marriage in this case.

RishiRahul

Your 'ingit' was not clear, as in which message or whose message you are referring to, Rishi. KBN like any other astro-factor should show up in dasas of connected or associated planets to a given rule etc. Isn't that the basic premise of Jyotish? You are perhaps thinking of the concept of life-time yogas, such as kemadruma, mahapurush yogas, even KSY. Even those can show trends that seem to flow in tune with dasa periods even though it may not be guaranteed in 100% of charts at all times. KSY for instance can bring devastations during period of maraka planets.

Most people naturally due to our primary attunement with natural karakas would tend to think chara karakas as *secondary*, and I too did that before picking up Jaimini factors as they are called (chara karakas being one consideration) because of my personal bias or inability to absorb Jaimini perspective (years ago when I tried learning from books by Raman household and articles in A.M.). Later on when I began studying again BPHS (Sharma's edition was particularly revealing for me for which I remain grateful!) I could find myself focusing on the chapters that earlier had made less sense or even seemed alien. On looking at things again, KBN which was often hit and miss, just as CRS reported its association with chara karakas too, if not exclusively so, emerged and led me to write about it a few years ago in my non-forum sharings.

The ocean that raged and stormed at one time, seems to have become more settled and peaceful over time for me, Rishi. I am now contented to sit on the coral island and enjoy the mysteries of the ocean rather than furiously and with a knot in my stomach, chase the pursuit of counting the waves; I am no laharon kaa munshi, nor was it ever my mission to be one!

They say that the calendar for 2014 is identical to the year of independence of Mother India in current cycle of Her vast existence and Lila. It feels that something fresh is in the air, the air that the vast OCEAN brings to the shore...!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

Dada,

Since I do not give Vimshottari dasa as importance as most others do, I mentioned this.

But of course I do not deny that Vimshottari should have no pointers.

Firstly, the main criteria for KBN  has taken place= Natural darakarak in the 7th. house.....which has got much diluted by the natural benefic Mercury.

Also linking KBN with dasa is not the same as linking marriage with dasa.
We (I do not mean you) should not get mixed up here as KBN is not marriage but a flavour of marriage.

Let me explain the flavour of KBN; ie: Venus  in the 7th= The native is very much attracted to marriage/such partnerships; clings to the spouse; but with time something goes amiss, which is conjugal life/felicity.

Now the sign Venus is in; the aspects to it, mainly conjunctions can bend/alter the flavour.
If it didn't, it would become a 'one factor astrology'.
We must never ignore that Venus is a natural benefic; not natural malefic, nor kroora.

In the bhava I follow, Rahu joins Venus in the 7th.
2023 onwards Mercury mahadasa in Vimshottari starts, & the focus of the native in marriage may become lesser than now.

I know I would be 'pelted' for this..........

Rishi

*pelted*! Not by me for certain!

As I wrote to CRS ji and have always believed to be true in contemporary divinatory and healing field practitioners:
Go with whatever you are comfortable with.

Good luck!

RR

[RishiRahul]

Since it was said that the native got married in March 2012= I see dates between 13th March & 27 March 2012.

I wonder why there is an effort to link kbn with Vimshottari dasa? Do things happen this way?
The native got married in Venus antardasa anyway.

Kbn in the 7th may be a quality of the 7th house; while dasa is related to timings of marriage in this case.

RishiRahul

Your 'ingit' was not clear, as in which message or whose message you are referring to, Rishi. KBN like any other astro-factor should show up in dasas of connected or associated planets to a given rule etc. Isn't that the basic premise of Jyotish? You are perhaps thinking of the concept of life-time yogas, such as kemadruma, mahapurush yogas, even KSY. Even those can show trends that seem to flow in tune with dasa periods even though it may not be guaranteed in 100% of charts at all times. KSY for instance can bring devastations during period of maraka planets.

Most people naturally due to our primary attunement with natural karakas would tend to think chara karakas as *secondary*, and I too did that before picking up Jaimini factors as they are called (chara karakas being one consideration) because of my personal bias or inability to absorb Jaimini perspective (years ago when I tried learning from books by Raman household and articles in A.M.). Later on when I began studying again BPHS (Sharma's edition was particularly revealing for me for which I remain grateful!) I could find myself focusing on the chapters that earlier had made less sense or even seemed alien. On looking at things again, KBN which was often hit and miss, just as CRS reported its association with chara karakas too, if not exclusively so, emerged and led me to write about it a few years ago in my non-forum sharings.

The ocean that raged and stormed at one time, seems to have become more settled and peaceful over time for me, Rishi. I am now contented to sit on the coral island and enjoy the mysteries of the ocean rather than furiously and with a knot in my stomach, chase the pursuit of counting the waves; I am no laharon kaa munshi, nor was it ever my mission to be one!

They say that the calendar for 2014 is identical to the year of independence of Mother India in current cycle of Her vast existence and Lila. It feels that something fresh is in the air, the air that the vast OCEAN brings to the shore...!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

Dada,

Since I do not give Vimshottari dasa as importance as most others do, I mentioned this.

But of course I do not deny that Vimshottari should have no pointers.

Firstly, the main criteria for KBN  has taken place= Natural darakarak in the 7th. house.....which has got much diluted by the natural benefic Mercury.

Also linking KBN with dasa is not the same as linking marriage with dasa.
We (I do not mean you) should not get mixed up here as KBN is not marriage but a flavour of marriage.

Let me explain the flavour of KBN; ie: Venus  in the 7th= The native is very much attracted to marriage/such partnerships; clings to the spouse; but with time something goes amiss, which is conjugal life/felicity.

Now the sign Venus is in; the aspects to it, mainly conjunctions can bend/alter the flavour.
If it didn't, it would become a 'one factor astrology'.
We must never ignore that Venus is a natural benefic; not natural malefic, nor kroora.

In the bhava I follow, Rahu joins Venus in the 7th.
2023 onwards Mercury mahadasa in Vimshottari starts, & the focus of the native in marriage may become lesser than now.

I know I would be 'pelted' for this..........

Rishi

*pelted*! Not by me for certain!

As I wrote to CRS ji and have always believed to be true in contemporary divinatory and healing field practitioners:
Go with whatever you are comfortable with.

Good luck!

RR

Oh! I was talking of pelted in terms of what mentioned about 2023.

Divination is what I (we) follow too; of course the horizons may be a bit different. Diffrent zones like ayanamsa, bhava, understanding etc.

Even if 2023 leads to less focus in marriage, it can add to focus in the extra familial.

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

...

Oh! I was talking of pelted in terms of what mentioned about 2023.

Divination is what I (we) follow too; of course the horizons may be a bit different. Diffrent zones like ayanamsa, bhava, understanding etc.

Even if 2023 leads to less focus in marriage, it can add to focus in the extra familial.

Rishi

I can assure you, if you thinks that I am or even interested in judging you or others in the fold, I will not be here to pester anyone of you in 2023!

Clarity 2020

[mysbcrs]

Since it was said that the native got married in March 2012= I see dates between 13th March & 27 March 2012.

I wonder why there is an effort to link kbn with Vimshottari dasa? Do things happen this way?
The native got married in Venus antardasa anyway.

Kbn in the 7th may be a quality of the 7th house; while dasa is related to timings of marriage in this case.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji/RR ji,

Date of marriage 11th March. Male child on 20/Oct/2013.

As RR ji mentioned in his post, I view KBN like yogas/doshas/shraps which essentially to me look like overall "potential" of the chart. Whether the potential actually materializes depends on how long the native lives and at what point in his/her life is the astrological reading done. This I attribute to the magic of dasa. Somehow I dont feel enthused by astro possibilities that can not be timed.

You are right in your observation that he is very attached to his wife.

I have a doubt about the benefic aspect of Me that you mentioned. Assuming Me to be benefic how did the event not happen in Sa-Me-Ve period? Effort was very much in place in that period too. In fact II had sought help from other memebers in reading section on possible date of marriage.
If we see the dasa entry chart of Sa-Me-Ve, Ju is in lagna aspecting 7th, and Me and Ve are in trine to the 7th in a very friendly sign. On the contrary the transits on day of marriage (sade sati included) are relatively less potent in giving 7th house results.

I would also be happy if you can indicate what could be the results of Ma being in the 6th in the chart from a KBN perspective.

CRS

The benefic aspect of mercury is in terms of KBN; ie a natural benefic aspecting natural darakarak....is what I meant/mentioned.
CRS - Yes, this is how I also thought the marriage will happen in Sa-Me-Ve period.

A planet can be benefic for something & malefic for something else.

Since the marriage, according to you happened in Sa-me-ve, would it mean that the other planets are not important/good for marriage?

Now we are mixing up other things with KBN.
CRS - I think you got me wrong. Marriage did NOT happen in Sa-Me-Ve period, but in Sa-Ve-Ju period (using Lahiri tropical year). My doubt is if it did not happen in Sa-Me-Ve due to KBN then how could it happen in Sa-Ve-Ju? You have in your previuos post on the flavour of KBN.

I can give valid reasons why marriage should take place in Saturn Venus- ketu; and the marriage settled better after the hustle/bustle of marriage occuring after around 21March 2012.

From Kbn perspective I dont understand how one would link mars in the 6th.
CRS - I thought Ma is one of the Karakaas for 6th (enemies)
But yes, I can link mercury in 7th may not be a good thing entirely, as 7th. mercury is not a happy position mostly.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji,

My responses above in bold.

[RishiRahul]

Since it was said that the native got married in March 2012= I see dates between 13th March & 27 March 2012.

I wonder why there is an effort to link kbn with Vimshottari dasa? Do things happen this way?
The native got married in Venus antardasa anyway.

Kbn in the 7th may be a quality of the 7th house; while dasa is related to timings of marriage in this case.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji/RR ji,

Date of marriage 11th March. Male child on 20/Oct/2013.

As RR ji mentioned in his post, I view KBN like yogas/doshas/shraps which essentially to me look like overall "potential" of the chart. Whether the potential actually materializes depends on how long the native lives and at what point in his/her life is the astrological reading done. This I attribute to the magic of dasa. Somehow I dont feel enthused by astro possibilities that can not be timed.

You are right in your observation that he is very attached to his wife.

I have a doubt about the benefic aspect of Me that you mentioned. Assuming Me to be benefic how did the event not happen in Sa-Me-Ve period? Effort was very much in place in that period too. In fact II had sought help from other memebers in reading section on possible date of marriage.
If we see the dasa entry chart of Sa-Me-Ve, Ju is in lagna aspecting 7th, and Me and Ve are in trine to the 7th in a very friendly sign. On the contrary the transits on day of marriage (sade sati included) are relatively less potent in giving 7th house results.

I would also be happy if you can indicate what could be the results of Ma being in the 6th in the chart from a KBN perspective.

CRS

The benefic aspect of mercury is in terms of KBN; ie a natural benefic aspecting natural darakarak....is what I meant/mentioned.
CRS - Yes, this is how I also thought the marriage will happen in Sa-Me-Ve period.

A planet can be benefic for something & malefic for something else.

Since the marriage, according to you happened in Sa-me-ve, would it mean that the other planets are not important/good for marriage?

Now we are mixing up other things with KBN.
CRS - I think you got me wrong. Marriage did NOT happen in Sa-Me-Ve period, but in Sa-Ve-Ju period (using Lahiri tropical year). My doubt is if it did not happen in Sa-Me-Ve due to KBN then how could it happen in Sa-Ve-Ju? You have in your previuos post on the flavour of KBN.

I can give valid reasons why marriage should take place in Saturn Venus- ketu; and the marriage settled better after the hustle/bustle of marriage occuring after around 21March 2012.

From Kbn perspective I dont understand how one would link mars in the 6th.
CRS - I thought Ma is one of the Karakaas for 6th (enemies)
But yes, I can link mercury in 7th may not be a good thing entirely, as 7th. mercury is not a happy position mostly.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji,

My responses above in bold.

Marriage according to the co ordinates I follow (traditional Lahiri ayanamsa; true sidereal solar year as 360 days) was at Sani dasa-venus antar- Ketu pratyantar.

Mars in the 6th. from lagna; third from Al may be expected to give victory over enemies, though the Mars dasa is to be troublesome.
But why link it with kbn?
Kbn may or may not show enemy activity

RishiRahul

[Rohiniranjan]

My tiny comments in red for both of you:

Since it was said that the native got married in March 2012= I see dates between 13th March & 27 March 2012.

I wonder why there is an effort to link kbn with Vimshottari dasa? Do things happen this way?
The native got married in Venus antardasa anyway.

Kbn in the 7th may be a quality of the 7th house; while dasa is related to timings of marriage in this case.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji/RR ji,

Date of marriage 11th March. Male child on 20/Oct/2013.

As RR ji mentioned in his post, I view KBN like yogas/doshas/shraps which essentially to me look like overall "potential" of the chart. Whether the potential actually materializes depends on how long the native lives and at what point in his/her life is the astrological reading done. This I attribute to the magic of dasa. Somehow I dont feel enthused by astro possibilities that can not be timed.

You are right in your observation that he is very attached to his wife.

I have a doubt about the benefic aspect of Me that you mentioned. Assuming Me to be benefic how did the event not happen in Sa-Me-Ve period? Effort was very much in place in that period too. In fact II had sought help from other memebers in reading section on possible date of marriage.
If we see the dasa entry chart of Sa-Me-Ve, Ju is in lagna aspecting 7th, and Me and Ve are in trine to the 7th in a very friendly sign. On the contrary the transits on day of marriage (sade sati included) are relatively less potent in giving 7th house results.

I would also be happy if you can indicate what could be the results of Ma being in the 6th in the chart from a KBN perspective.

CRS

The benefic aspect of mercury is in terms of KBN; ie a natural benefic aspecting natural darakarak....is what I meant/mentioned.
CRS - Yes, this is how I also thought the marriage will happen in Sa-Me-Ve period.

A planet can be benefic for something & malefic for something else.

Since the marriage, according to you happened in Sa-me-ve, would it mean that the other planets are not important/good for marriage?

Now we are mixing up other things with KBN.
CRS - I think you got me wrong. Marriage did NOT happen in Sa-Me-Ve period, but in Sa-Ve-Ju period (using Lahiri tropical year). My doubt is if it did not happen in Sa-Me-Ve due to KBN then how could it happen in Sa-Ve-Ju? You have in your previuos post on the flavour of KBN. Because Jupiter is the darakaraka and neither in the 7th nor in a bad place from the house so there is no KBN! I think you did not read my earlier response carefully, CRS ji!

I can give valid reasons why marriage should take place in Saturn Venus- ketu; and the marriage settled better after the hustle/bustle of marriage occuring after around 21March 2012.

From Kbn perspective I dont understand how one would link mars in the 6th.
CRS - I thought Ma is one of the Karakaas for 6th (enemies)
But yes, I can link mercury in 7th may not be a good thing entirely, as 7th. mercury is not a happy position mostly.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji,

My responses above in bold.

Marriage according to the co ordinates I follow (traditional Lahiri ayanamsa; true sidereal solar year as 360 days) was at Sani dasa-venus antar- Ketu pratyantar. Rishi, this I touched upon when I stated that Jyotish has a lot of redundancies and that is why so many ayanamshas and other differences of opinions co-exist. It is important to figure out and feel comfortable with a set of parameters and get familiar and work consistently with those. Those who do not, are sure headed towards confusion and that is seen in a lot of people who end up becoming sceptics! At least what I have seen on internet where such things can be observed more clearly because there is more communication (astrologically!) here than in the 3-D world!

Mars in the 6th. from lagna; third from Al may be expected to give victory over enemies, though the Mars dasa is to be troublesome.
But why link it with kbn?
Kbn may or may not show enemy activity

RishiRahul

[mysbcrs]

My tiny comments in red for both of you:

Since it was said that the native got married in March 2012= I see dates between 13th March & 27 March 2012.

I wonder why there is an effort to link kbn with Vimshottari dasa? Do things happen this way?
The native got married in Venus antardasa anyway.

Kbn in the 7th may be a quality of the 7th house; while dasa is related to timings of marriage in this case.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji/RR ji,

Date of marriage 11th March. Male child on 20/Oct/2013.

As RR ji mentioned in his post, I view KBN like yogas/doshas/shraps which essentially to me look like overall "potential" of the chart. Whether the potential actually materializes depends on how long the native lives and at what point in his/her life is the astrological reading done. This I attribute to the magic of dasa. Somehow I dont feel enthused by astro possibilities that can not be timed.

You are right in your observation that he is very attached to his wife.

I have a doubt about the benefic aspect of Me that you mentioned. Assuming Me to be benefic how did the event not happen in Sa-Me-Ve period? Effort was very much in place in that period too. In fact II had sought help from other memebers in reading section on possible date of marriage.
If we see the dasa entry chart of Sa-Me-Ve, Ju is in lagna aspecting 7th, and Me and Ve are in trine to the 7th in a very friendly sign. On the contrary the transits on day of marriage (sade sati included) are relatively less potent in giving 7th house results.

I would also be happy if you can indicate what could be the results of Ma being in the 6th in the chart from a KBN perspective.

CRS

The benefic aspect of mercury is in terms of KBN; ie a natural benefic aspecting natural darakarak....is what I meant/mentioned.
CRS - Yes, this is how I also thought the marriage will happen in Sa-Me-Ve period.

A planet can be benefic for something & malefic for something else.

Since the marriage, according to you happened in Sa-me-ve, would it mean that the other planets are not important/good for marriage?

Now we are mixing up other things with KBN.
CRS - I think you got me wrong. Marriage did NOT happen in Sa-Me-Ve period, but in Sa-Ve-Ju period (using Lahiri tropical year). My doubt is if it did not happen in Sa-Me-Ve due to KBN then how could it happen in Sa-Ve-Ju? You have in your previuos post on the flavour of KBN. Because Jupiter is the darakaraka and neither in the 7th nor in a bad place from the house so there is no KBN! I think you did not read my earlier response carefully, CRS ji!
CRS - RR ji, Yes I indeed read it. But was not sure whether Rish ji's treatment of KBN is the same. From your perspective does this mean only when both the natural and chara karaka are in 7th, KBN is likely to take effect?
Rishi ji - Can you please let me know whether you also consider both?

I can give valid reasons why marriage should take place in Saturn Venus- ketu; and the marriage settled better after the hustle/bustle of marriage occuring after around 21March 2012.

From Kbn perspective I dont understand how one would link mars in the 6th.
CRS - I thought Ma is one of the Karakaas for 6th (enemies)
But yes, I can link mercury in 7th may not be a good thing entirely, as 7th. mercury is not a happy position mostly.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji,

My responses above in bold.

Marriage according to the co ordinates I follow (traditional Lahiri ayanamsa; true sidereal solar year as 360 days) was at Sani dasa-venus antar- Ketu pratyantar. Rishi, this I touched upon when I stated that Jyotish has a lot of redundancies and that is why so many ayanamshas and other differences of opinions co-exist. It is important to figure out and feel comfortable with a set of parameters and get familiar and work consistently with those. Those who do not, are sure headed towards confusion and that is seen in a lot of people who end up becoming sceptics! At least what I have seen on internet where such things can be observed more clearly because there is more communication (astrologically!) here than in the 3-D world!
CRS - Yes, I understand this. Ke instead of Ju is OK. I was trying to find how Ve was a participant. But sinde Rishi ji has explained he only looks at the result and not at timing it, we will have to leave it at that. As I mentioned earlier, I have a hsitation in trying out any astro rule/principle that can not be timed. Many ways of looking at a chart!

Mars in the 6th. from lagna; third from Al may be expected to give victory over enemies, though the Mars dasa is to be troublesome.
But why link it with kbn?
Kbn may or may not show enemy activity

RishiRahul

CRS - Rishi ji, since you have already mentioned that you do not use KBN for timing the event - that is fine. But Ma as kaaraka for enemies/6th house has to have some results. If I get to know this, I can share related events.

Rishi ji, RR ji,
Since the posts have common text, I will take the liberty of a single response post. Hope you dont mind.

My responses above in bold

[Rohiniranjan]

My tiny comments in red for both of you:

Since it was said that the native got married in March 2012= I see dates between 13th March & 27 March 2012.

I wonder why there is an effort to link kbn with Vimshottari dasa? Do things happen this way?
The native got married in Venus antardasa anyway.

Kbn in the 7th may be a quality of the 7th house; while dasa is related to timings of marriage in this case.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji/RR ji,

Date of marriage 11th March. Male child on 20/Oct/2013.

As RR ji mentioned in his post, I view KBN like yogas/doshas/shraps which essentially to me look like overall "potential" of the chart. Whether the potential actually materializes depends on how long the native lives and at what point in his/her life is the astrological reading done. This I attribute to the magic of dasa. Somehow I dont feel enthused by astro possibilities that can not be timed.

You are right in your observation that he is very attached to his wife.

I have a doubt about the benefic aspect of Me that you mentioned. Assuming Me to be benefic how did the event not happen in Sa-Me-Ve period? Effort was very much in place in that period too. In fact II had sought help from other memebers in reading section on possible date of marriage.
If we see the dasa entry chart of Sa-Me-Ve, Ju is in lagna aspecting 7th, and Me and Ve are in trine to the 7th in a very friendly sign. On the contrary the transits on day of marriage (sade sati included) are relatively less potent in giving 7th house results.

I would also be happy if you can indicate what could be the results of Ma being in the 6th in the chart from a KBN perspective.

CRS

The benefic aspect of mercury is in terms of KBN; ie a natural benefic aspecting natural darakarak....is what I meant/mentioned.
CRS - Yes, this is how I also thought the marriage will happen in Sa-Me-Ve period.

A planet can be benefic for something & malefic for something else.

Since the marriage, according to you happened in Sa-me-ve, would it mean that the other planets are not important/good for marriage?

Now we are mixing up other things with KBN.
CRS - I think you got me wrong. Marriage did NOT happen in Sa-Me-Ve period, but in Sa-Ve-Ju period (using Lahiri tropical year). My doubt is if it did not happen in Sa-Me-Ve due to KBN then how could it happen in Sa-Ve-Ju? You have in your previuos post on the flavour of KBN. Because Jupiter is the darakaraka and neither in the 7th nor in a bad place from the house so there is no KBN! I think you did not read my earlier response carefully, CRS ji!
CRS - RR ji, Yes I indeed read it. But was not sure whether Rish ji's treatment of KBN is the same. From your perspective does this mean only when both the natural and chara karaka are in 7th, KBN is likely to take effect?
Rishi ji - Can you please let me know whether you also consider both?

I can give valid reasons why marriage should take place in Saturn Venus- ketu; and the marriage settled better after the hustle/bustle of marriage occuring after around 21March 2012.

From Kbn perspective I dont understand how one would link mars in the 6th.
CRS - I thought Ma is one of the Karakaas for 6th (enemies)
But yes, I can link mercury in 7th may not be a good thing entirely, as 7th. mercury is not a happy position mostly.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji,

My responses above in bold.

Marriage according to the co ordinates I follow (traditional Lahiri ayanamsa; true sidereal solar year as 360 days) was at Sani dasa-venus antar- Ketu pratyantar. Rishi, this I touched upon when I stated that Jyotish has a lot of redundancies and that is why so many ayanamshas and other differences of opinions co-exist. It is important to figure out and feel comfortable with a set of parameters and get familiar and work consistently with those. Those who do not, are sure headed towards confusion and that is seen in a lot of people who end up becoming sceptics! At least what I have seen on internet where such things can be observed more clearly because there is more communication (astrologically!) here than in the 3-D world!
CRS - Yes, I understand this. Ke instead of Ju is OK. I was trying to find how Ve was a participant. But sinde Rishi ji has explained he only looks at the result and not at timing it, we will have to leave it at that. As I mentioned earlier, I have a hsitation in trying out any astro rule/principle that can not be timed. Many ways of looking at a chart!

Mars in the 6th. from lagna; third from Al may be expected to give victory over enemies, though the Mars dasa is to be troublesome.
But why link it with kbn?
Kbn may or may not show enemy activity

RishiRahul

CRS - Rishi ji, since you have already mentioned that you do not use KBN for timing the event - that is fine. But Ma as kaaraka for enemies/6th house has to have some results. If I get to know this, I can share related events.

Rishi ji, RR ji,
Since the posts have common text, I will take the liberty of a single response post. Hope you dont mind.

My responses above in bold

CRS ji,

We are dangerously inching close to that phenomenon known as a thread becoming a DB (dog's breakfast!) that both RRs dread! Actually, it is a wrong expression because usually when a healthy dog is done, the plate is completely clean and not messy which DB implies <LOL>

I understand your reluctance at trying anything new. I am somewhat like that too! But the best way to resolve that is to test whatever it is, yourself with your standard test bench of charts of people you know, can get feedback from or about for verification, and then use these when such problems arise. You probably have that since you are the logical, rational type. For a long time, I had been using KBN only with natural karakas but then began including chara karakas and found them to be somewhat more reliable, so I use those. But I remain flexible and open with these things. Like I said, each of us is an individual and NEEDS to find our point of comfort. For you, getting an opinion poll will never suffice because you are a karmayogi and must wrestle directly with the Monster known as Uhapoha in its negative sense! While you do that, my suggestion would be to keep both karakas in mind. For some reason, I have not found sthira karakas (some are similar to natural ones, a few are different) to work out well, but who knows tomorrow is another new day. The ancients must have seen something in those or else we would not have those clearly categorized. That is my belief. That said, I do not fully understand when Rishi mentioned that KBN should not work in tandem with dashas. I believe that planet ruling the dashas or their associate others are more likely to trigger events (the destruction or NAASH) than unrelated ones. Though sometimes this is not directly seen, for instance when planets are seen to work through nakshatra dispositors as is the fundamental premise of KP.

RR

[RishiRahul]

My tiny comments in red for both of you:

Since it was said that the native got married in March 2012= I see dates between 13th March & 27 March 2012.

I wonder why there is an effort to link kbn with Vimshottari dasa? Do things happen this way?
The native got married in Venus antardasa anyway.

Kbn in the 7th may be a quality of the 7th house; while dasa is related to timings of marriage in this case.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji/RR ji,

Date of marriage 11th March. Male child on 20/Oct/2013.

As RR ji mentioned in his post, I view KBN like yogas/doshas/shraps which essentially to me look like overall "potential" of the chart. Whether the potential actually materializes depends on how long the native lives and at what point in his/her life is the astrological reading done. This I attribute to the magic of dasa. Somehow I dont feel enthused by astro possibilities that can not be timed.

You are right in your observation that he is very attached to his wife.

I have a doubt about the benefic aspect of Me that you mentioned. Assuming Me to be benefic how did the event not happen in Sa-Me-Ve period? Effort was very much in place in that period too. In fact II had sought help from other memebers in reading section on possible date of marriage.
If we see the dasa entry chart of Sa-Me-Ve, Ju is in lagna aspecting 7th, and Me and Ve are in trine to the 7th in a very friendly sign. On the contrary the transits on day of marriage (sade sati included) are relatively less potent in giving 7th house results.

I would also be happy if you can indicate what could be the results of Ma being in the 6th in the chart from a KBN perspective.

CRS

The benefic aspect of mercury is in terms of KBN; ie a natural benefic aspecting natural darakarak....is what I meant/mentioned.
CRS - Yes, this is how I also thought the marriage will happen in Sa-Me-Ve period.

A planet can be benefic for something & malefic for something else.

Since the marriage, according to you happened in Sa-me-ve, would it mean that the other planets are not important/good for marriage?

Now we are mixing up other things with KBN.
CRS - I think you got me wrong. Marriage did NOT happen in Sa-Me-Ve period, but in Sa-Ve-Ju period (using Lahiri tropical year). My doubt is if it did not happen in Sa-Me-Ve due to KBN then how could it happen in Sa-Ve-Ju? You have in your previuos post on the flavour of KBN. Because Jupiter is the darakaraka and neither in the 7th nor in a bad place from the house so there is no KBN! I think you did not read my earlier response carefully, CRS ji!
CRS - RR ji, Yes I indeed read it. But was not sure whether Rish ji's treatment of KBN is the same. From your perspective does this mean only when both the natural and chara karaka are in 7th, KBN is likely to take effect?
Rishi ji - Can you please let me know whether you also consider both?

I can give valid reasons why marriage should take place in Saturn Venus- ketu; and the marriage settled better after the hustle/bustle of marriage occuring after around 21March 2012.

From Kbn perspective I dont understand how one would link mars in the 6th.
CRS - I thought Ma is one of the Karakaas for 6th (enemies)
But yes, I can link mercury in 7th may not be a good thing entirely, as 7th. mercury is not a happy position mostly.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji,

My responses above in bold.

Marriage according to the co ordinates I follow (traditional Lahiri ayanamsa; true sidereal solar year as 360 days) was at Sani dasa-venus antar- Ketu pratyantar. Rishi, this I touched upon when I stated that Jyotish has a lot of redundancies and that is why so many ayanamshas and other differences of opinions co-exist. It is important to figure out and feel comfortable with a set of parameters and get familiar and work consistently with those. Those who do not, are sure headed towards confusion and that is seen in a lot of people who end up becoming sceptics! At least what I have seen on internet where such things can be observed more clearly because there is more communication (astrologically!) here than in the 3-D world!
CRS - Yes, I understand this. Ke instead of Ju is OK. I was trying to find how Ve was a participant. But sinde Rishi ji has explained he only looks at the result and not at timing it, we will have to leave it at that. As I mentioned earlier, I have a hsitation in trying out any astro rule/principle that can not be timed. Many ways of looking at a chart!

RishiRahul=Venus is a participant of kbn as its a natural karak of marriage in the 7th. house.
While timing marriage I would prefer to look at the tools for timing marriage; while timing kbn I prefer to look at the tools for timing kbn. Even quality like kbn can be timed.
Okay lets think of timing kbn= kbn happens technically as Venus is in the 7th= which goes to say that bhavanashya exists.
But it is diluted by mercury which results from mercury dasa.
Again, another flavour of this venus & 7th house is aspected by sani, giving another flavour inculded by viraha/ dis attachment in marriage.
Unfortunately Venus dasa doesnt happen here in totality.

Mars in the 6th. from lagna; third from Al may be expected to give victory over enemies, though the Mars dasa is to be troublesome.
But why link it with kbn?
Kbn may or may not show enemy activity

RishiRahul

CRS - Rishi ji, since you have already mentioned that you do not use KBN for timing the event - that is fine. But Ma as kaaraka for enemies/6th house has to have some results. If I get to know this, I can share related events.

]RishiRahul= What I meant was that I do not try to mix issues. When I look for marriage, I look for marriage.
When I search/look for kbn its a different search.
Let me explain better:= You were & probably are not convinced if kbn works. Then why did you try to search for marriage with kbn?
Am just trying to get the sighting compartments separate.

kbn may or may not have enemy activity. In fact the person can be his own enemy... or no enemy too in terms of kbn


Rishi ji, RR ji,
Since the posts have common text, I will take the liberty of a single response post. Hope you dont mind.

My responses above in bold

My responses in green. I seem to enjoy this thread, as its enlightening for me too

RishiRahul

[RishiRahul]

My tiny comments in red for both of you:

Since it was said that the native got married in March 2012= I see dates between 13th March & 27 March 2012.

I wonder why there is an effort to link kbn with Vimshottari dasa? Do things happen this way?
The native got married in Venus antardasa anyway.

Kbn in the 7th may be a quality of the 7th house; while dasa is related to timings of marriage in this case.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji/RR ji,

Date of marriage 11th March. Male child on 20/Oct/2013.

As RR ji mentioned in his post, I view KBN like yogas/doshas/shraps which essentially to me look like overall "potential" of the chart. Whether the potential actually materializes depends on how long the native lives and at what point in his/her life is the astrological reading done. This I attribute to the magic of dasa. Somehow I dont feel enthused by astro possibilities that can not be timed.

You are right in your observation that he is very attached to his wife.

I have a doubt about the benefic aspect of Me that you mentioned. Assuming Me to be benefic how did the event not happen in Sa-Me-Ve period? Effort was very much in place in that period too. In fact II had sought help from other memebers in reading section on possible date of marriage.
If we see the dasa entry chart of Sa-Me-Ve, Ju is in lagna aspecting 7th, and Me and Ve are in trine to the 7th in a very friendly sign. On the contrary the transits on day of marriage (sade sati included) are relatively less potent in giving 7th house results.

I would also be happy if you can indicate what could be the results of Ma being in the 6th in the chart from a KBN perspective.

CRS

The benefic aspect of mercury is in terms of KBN; ie a natural benefic aspecting natural darakarak....is what I meant/mentioned.
CRS - Yes, this is how I also thought the marriage will happen in Sa-Me-Ve period.

A planet can be benefic for something & malefic for something else.

Since the marriage, according to you happened in Sa-me-ve, would it mean that the other planets are not important/good for marriage?

Now we are mixing up other things with KBN.
CRS - I think you got me wrong. Marriage did NOT happen in Sa-Me-Ve period, but in Sa-Ve-Ju period (using Lahiri tropical year). My doubt is if it did not happen in Sa-Me-Ve due to KBN then how could it happen in Sa-Ve-Ju? You have in your previuos post on the flavour of KBN. Because Jupiter is the darakaraka and neither in the 7th nor in a bad place from the house so there is no KBN! I think you did not read my earlier response carefully, CRS ji!
CRS - RR ji, Yes I indeed read it. But was not sure whether Rish ji's treatment of KBN is the same. From your perspective does this mean only when both the natural and chara karaka are in 7th, KBN is likely to take effect?
Rishi ji - Can you please let me know whether you also consider both?

I can give valid reasons why marriage should take place in Saturn Venus- ketu; and the marriage settled better after the hustle/bustle of marriage occuring after around 21March 2012.

From Kbn perspective I dont understand how one would link mars in the 6th.
CRS - I thought Ma is one of the Karakaas for 6th (enemies)
But yes, I can link mercury in 7th may not be a good thing entirely, as 7th. mercury is not a happy position mostly.

RishiRahul

Rishi ji,

My responses above in bold.

Marriage according to the co ordinates I follow (traditional Lahiri ayanamsa; true sidereal solar year as 360 days) was at Sani dasa-venus antar- Ketu pratyantar. Rishi, this I touched upon when I stated that Jyotish has a lot of redundancies and that is why so many ayanamshas and other differences of opinions co-exist. It is important to figure out and feel comfortable with a set of parameters and get familiar and work consistently with those. Those who do not, are sure headed towards confusion and that is seen in a lot of people who end up becoming sceptics! At least what I have seen on internet where such things can be observed more clearly because there is more communication (astrologically!) here than in the 3-D world!
CRS - Yes, I understand this. Ke instead of Ju is OK. I was trying to find how Ve was a participant. But sinde Rishi ji has explained he only looks at the result and not at timing it, we will have to leave it at that. As I mentioned earlier, I have a hsitation in trying out any astro rule/principle that can not be timed. Many ways of looking at a chart!

Mars in the 6th. from lagna; third from Al may be expected to give victory over enemies, though the Mars dasa is to be troublesome.
But why link it with kbn?
Kbn may or may not show enemy activity

RishiRahul

CRS - Rishi ji, since you have already mentioned that you do not use KBN for timing the event - that is fine. But Ma as kaaraka for enemies/6th house has to have some results. If I get to know this, I can share related events.

Rishi ji, RR ji,
Since the posts have common text, I will take the liberty of a single response post. Hope you dont mind.

My responses above in bold

CRS ji,

We are dangerously inching close to that phenomenon known as a thread becoming a DB (dog's breakfast!) that both RRs dread! Actually, it is a wrong expression because usually when a healthy dog is done, the plate is completely clean and not messy which DB implies <LOL>

I understand your reluctance at trying anything new. I am somewhat like that too! But the best way to resolve that is to test whatever it is, yourself with your standard test bench of charts of people you know, can get feedback from or about for verification, and then use these when such problems arise. You probably have that since you are the logical, rational type. For a long time, I had been using KBN only with natural karakas but then began including chara karakas and found them to be somewhat more reliable, so I use those. But I remain flexible and open with these things. Like I said, each of us is an individual and NEEDS to find our point of comfort. For you, getting an opinion poll will never suffice because you are a karmayogi and must wrestle directly with the Monster known as Uhapoha in its negative sense! While you do that, my suggestion would be to keep both karakas in mind. For some reason, I have not found sthira karakas (some are similar to natural ones, a few are different) to work out well, but who knows tomorrow is another new day. The ancients must have seen something in those or else we would not have those clearly categorized. That is my belief. That said, I do not fully understand when Rishi mentioned that KBN should not work in tandem with dashas. I believe that planet ruling the dashas or their associate others are more likely to trigger events (the destruction or NAASH) than unrelated ones. Though sometimes this is not directly seen, for instance when planets are seen to work through nakshatra dispositors as is the fundamental premise of KP.

RR

Dada,

I am aware about the charakaraks in kbn. Its a different flavour which I thought can be brought in later as case histories come up.

But I agree with you.

Also there 'HAS' to be a reason why the ancient masters decided to differentiate between the natural & chara.

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

Lords and naisargika karaka are more about the physical aspects of an object or entity, chara are more subtle and deal with roles and experiences (for want of a better term) and sthira are still under microscope but seem even more subtle and nearly karmic in significance, but the last one, is still under scrutiny and the most difficult to verify, at least in my observation so far...

[mysbcrs]

Thanks RR ji, Rishi ji.

Yes, I will experiment with both types of Karakaas. I must say the discussion was very helpful in getting new perspectives. Meanwhile let me try to find a few more charts.

[Rohiniranjan]

Thanks RR ji, Rishi ji.

Yes, I will experiment with both types of Karakaas. I must say the discussion was very helpful in getting new perspectives. Meanwhile let me try to find a few more charts.

Good luck with your pursuits!