Help me out friends! Kind of an ethical quandry...!

[Rohiniranjan]

Here is my quandary. I hope to get some good advice including perhaps what you have faced in similar situations and if possible to share your considerations and approaches taken earlier by you or 'friends' who were in similar situations and how they dealt with same:

A nativity approaches me for a second or third opinion because he or she was not happy with the earlier free readings received from others.

Since I have received requests from people who wanted opinions after having consulted and freely advised by several others and seemed increasingly confused with all the opinions to me it means that multiple astrologers have spent their personal time over one person who remained dissatisfied, in the time that the astrologers could have given to so many nativities!

Each astrologer wasted his or her time, the nativity remained dissatisfied, x numbers of nativities had to wait longer or were denied help!

If in other professions this happened with so many seeking more than one opinions (= readings), this could lead to inefficiencies.

I realize that sometimes there are valid reasons for seeking 2nd or multiple opinions but the seeker has to make a full disclosure each time! It cannot be done on a whim. It does take enough time for the average astrologer to give a proper reading, even a brief reading as given on forums etc. Unless someone is psychic of course. We are talking about astrologers like me who must enter data, calculate charts, look into the chart, figure out what is going on, then timing, several charts, strengths, transits etc etc. Sure computers have reduced the time-load but still if we spend even 15 minutes and see ten charts a day, that is end-to-end 2.5-3 hours daily! Oh and I forget the composing of the email, typing, sending - so add another hour or two for the ten charts! This is not an unusual or inflated number considering that presumably many of us deal with several forums on a daily basis.

Essentially, going behind the back of a fellow-astrologer and potential of creating bad-blood is another aspect. Hardly any nativity goes back and gives negative feedback to the person who gave the earlier reading as is evident from numerous reading requests where nativities ask about something x or y astrologer stated earlier or their remedial recommendations etc, I have typically been upfront and questioned such folks. Pretty *thin* responses I have got so far, honestly speaking up!

Is it unethical to refuse such requests, unless full justifications and disclosure is received as to why a second opinion?

Is it unethical to give such a second opinion without informing or making sure the nativity does the same. This would be hard to monitor, of course and again risks creating bad feelings between the two astrologers even if the intention was justifiable and even noble.

What do you think? Please share transparently earlier practices if you can without giving names of nativities or astrologers etc since this is a public forum.

If two different divinatory modalities are concerned, the answer might be easier, because we are using different approaches even though there are gray zones even there or can be ...!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

[Votive]

Most people go to astrologers when they are in difficulties or atleast seeking solutions in a dilemma. Interestingly, they already have some ideas in mind, some solutions, some answers. They are also hopeful of finding a magic wand which when waved shows the answers clearly.

Thus, they go from door to door, hoping to find solutions which suit their agenda. Astrologers, divinators, counselors, Gurus, Godmen, temples...any support which they think they can get. Moreover, since, there are no fixed routes to follow, they hesitate, switch. I would not know if you or Rishiji can answer my question better so why not go to both of you.

Further, the remedies or upayas are largely a matter of resolve and faith for the seeker. They do not really know that such remedies can even work, so why not add on several remedies together maybe cumulatively they have a better impact. A ppoja, a ratna, a ritual, a routine, a karmik answer... I cant blame the seeker, the questions are many and the answers few.

I, for one, do not seek or ask if the seeker has already sought some solution. They may say, that they have been advised such and such thing, I give them what I feel is the best answer acording to my knowledge, experience and ability and let them decide.

I am afraid, no easy answers there, Ranjanda, but I would strongly suggest that you with your experience do give your answers unless you opine that the querrent is not genuine...

votive

[RishiRahul]

Here is my quandary. I hope to get some good advice including perhaps what you have faced in similar situations and if possible to share your considerations and approaches taken earlier by you or 'friends' who were in similar situations and how they dealt with same:

A nativity approaches me for a second or third opinion because he or she was not happy with the earlier free readings received from others.

Since I have received requests from people who wanted opinions after having consulted and freely advised by several others and seemed increasingly confused with all the opinions to me it means that multiple astrologers have spent their personal time over one person who remained dissatisfied, in the time that the astrologers could have given to so many nativities!

Each astrologer wasted his or her time, the nativity remained dissatisfied, x numbers of nativities had to wait longer or were denied help!

If in other professions this happened with so many seeking more than one opinions (= readings), this could lead to inefficiencies.

I realize that sometimes there are valid reasons for seeking 2nd or multiple opinions but the seeker has to make a full disclosure each time! It cannot be done on a whim. It does take enough time for the average astrologer to give a proper reading, even a brief reading as given on forums etc. Unless someone is psychic of course. We are talking about astrologers like me who must enter data, calculate charts, look into the chart, figure out what is going on, then timing, several charts, strengths, transits etc etc. Sure computers have reduced the time-load but still if we spend even 15 minutes and see ten charts a day, that is end-to-end 2.5-3 hours daily! Oh and I forget the composing of the email, typing, sending - so add another hour or two for the ten charts! This is not an unusual or inflated number considering that presumably many of us deal with several forums on a daily basis.

Essentially, going behind the back of a fellow-astrologer and potential of creating bad-blood is another aspect. Hardly any nativity goes back and gives negative feedback to the person who gave the earlier reading as is evident from numerous reading requests where nativities ask about something x or y astrologer stated earlier or their remedial recommendations etc, I have typically been upfront and questioned such folks. Pretty *thin* responses I have got so far, honestly speaking up!

Is it unethical to refuse such requests, unless full justifications and disclosure is received as to why a second opinion?

Is it unethical to give such a second opinion without informing or making sure the nativity does the same. This would be hard to monitor, of course and again risks creating bad feelings between the two astrologers even if the intention was justifiable and even noble.

What do you think? Please share transparently earlier practices if you can without giving names of nativities or astrologers etc since this is a public forum.

If two different divinatory modalities are concerned, the answer might be easier, because we are using different approaches even though there are gray zones even there or can be ...!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

Opinions are like 'views', & its natural for seekers to ask for opinions; particularly at times of trouble & confused times.

Again there is the downside of too many opinions, which can lead to confusion.
But I guess one r 2 opinions are alright; or maybe 3 opinions to choose the best of them.

Free readings, again do not go to depths, which can leave the seeker dissatisfied.

When a person consults someone, he/she has also to get used to the person/get confident of that person's abilities.
The astrologer may have abilities, but may not be able to understand the seeker's problems.....inadequate communication skills etc etc.

So this may be natural to that extent.

I remember a person consulting me once. He seemed satisfied very much then.
He got back after 2 years to consult me again, confessing that he has consulted 1 or 2 more astrologers in between.

I advised the native to stick to one who he has got confidence with; and he thought I was annoyed.
I told him that I was not at all annoyed, and may be I would have done the same thing if I was in his place.... as the troubles of life can be confusing, which is Human.

A person consulting comes at the time of trouble/need; which should be kept confidential, at least by the astrologer.
So there is no need to inform or take permission of the other astrologer, I feel, as it can only complicate matter and ego issues can come up from this.

When we advise some seeker on his/her problem, we need to see that it works well; so limits of staying limited to a form of divination can have less probability of satisfaction for the native.

My take...

Rishi

[Rohiniranjan]

Most people go to astrologers when they are in difficulties or atleast seeking solutions in a dilemma. Interestingly, they already have some ideas in mind, some solutions, some answers. They are also hopeful of finding a magic wand which when waved shows the answers clearly.

Thus, they go from door to door, hoping to find solutions which suit their agenda. Astrologers, divinators, counselors, Gurus, Godmen, temples...any support which they think they can get. Moreover, since, there are no fixed routes to follow, they hesitate, switch. I would not know if you or Rishiji can answer my question better so why not go to both of you.

Further, the remedies or upayas are largely a matter of resolve and faith for the seeker. They do not really know that such remedies can even work, so why not add on several remedies together maybe cumulatively they have a better impact. A ppoja, a ratna, a ritual, a routine, a karmik answer... I cant blame the seeker, the questions are many and the answers few.

I, for one, do not seek or ask if the seeker has already sought some solution. They may say, that they have been advised such and such thing, I give them what I feel is the best answer acording to my knowledge, experience and ability and let them decide.

I am afraid, no easy answers there, Ranjanda, but I would strongly suggest that you with your experience do give your answers unless you opine that the querrent is not genuine...

votive

Thanks, but like most ethical and moral dilemmas, the answer often is not simple.

Becomes easier in situations where there is an error of omission, rightly or wrongly, ethical issues do not arise. It is situations where an error of commission has taken place where questions of ethics arise

In latter cases, where I sense that the nativity is being hasty or jumping the gun a bit too impatiently, I have managed to convince them to approach the earlier astrologer privately and politely request for a review, clarification, elaboration, etc, rather than switching the radio station (aakaashvani) on a whim! Often that seems to work well. Some folks panic prematurely at other times, panic is justified.

Where the earlier astrologer is not available at all, due to distance, time, or other reasons, there does not arise any ethical dilemma, naturally

There are many nuances and considerations, obviously, which make ethical matters anything but black or white

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

[Rohiniranjan]

Even though readings for free are what we are talking about, the fact is undeniable that due to astronomical rise in the availability of portals of communication, and so on it is a lot easier and pretty much effortless for nativities to seek advice, at this time. Hence, from time to time, I have tried to raise these issues, where tolerated, that look at and address some of the operational issues surrounding modern practice of astrology. In the past such a luxury was not available or not readily available to astrologers or nativities and so the practice of astrology remained shrouded in a bit of mystery and where there is mystery, generally fear and magical thinking quickly finds its home!

Many sceptics and fence-sitters (believer today, sceptic tomorrow, believers the day after, again -- the see-saw folks!) lament that the practice of astrology is not regulated and not standardized and should not be equated to other professions such as engineers, doctors, even law enforcement, lawyers and judges or teachers and dentists, nurses, IT, etc. Astrology as far as I know, despite the efforts of some genuinely caring leaders (in the field) and educators has been making very slow in-roads into educational systems and mostly has relied on self-regulation and this has its own problems and perceptions etc in modern society.

There seem to be more problems than fixes. Open-minded and transparent communication, I believe is the key. The first step and if we each move away from the working model of astrology (the earth is the center of (my) universe!), which undeniably works very well in astrology -- I feel that would represent a positive movement, towards:

Love and Light!

Rohiniranjan

[Certain]

Here is my quandary. I hope to get some good advice including perhaps what you have faced in similar situations and if possible to share your considerations and approaches taken earlier by you or 'friends' who were in similar situations and how they dealt with same:

A nativity approaches me for a second or third opinion because he or she was not happy with the earlier free readings received from others.

Since I have received requests from people who wanted opinions after having consulted and freely advised by several others and seemed increasingly confused with all the opinions to me it means that multiple astrologers have spent their personal time over one person who remained dissatisfied, in the time that the astrologers could have given to so many nativities!

Each astrologer wasted his or her time, the nativity remained dissatisfied, x numbers of nativities had to wait longer or were denied help!

If in other professions this happened with so many seeking more than one opinions (= readings), this could lead to inefficiencies.

I realize that sometimes there are valid reasons for seeking 2nd or multiple opinions but the seeker has to make a full disclosure each time! It cannot be done on a whim. It does take enough time for the average astrologer to give a proper reading, even a brief reading as given on forums etc. Unless someone is psychic of course. We are talking about astrologers like me who must enter data, calculate charts, look into the chart, figure out what is going on, then timing, several charts, strengths, transits etc etc. Sure computers have reduced the time-load but still if we spend even 15 minutes and see ten charts a day, that is end-to-end 2.5-3 hours daily! Oh and I forget the composing of the email, typing, sending - so add another hour or two for the ten charts! This is not an unusual or inflated number considering that presumably many of us deal with several forums on a daily basis.

Essentially, going behind the back of a fellow-astrologer and potential of creating bad-blood is another aspect. Hardly any nativity goes back and gives negative feedback to the person who gave the earlier reading as is evident from numerous reading requests where nativities ask about something x or y astrologer stated earlier or their remedial recommendations etc, I have typically been upfront and questioned such folks. Pretty *thin* responses I have got so far, honestly speaking up!

Is it unethical to refuse such requests, unless full justifications and disclosure is received as to why a second opinion?

Is it unethical to give such a second opinion without informing or making sure the nativity does the same. This would be hard to monitor, of course and again risks creating bad feelings between the two astrologers even if the intention was justifiable and even noble.

What do you think? Please share transparently earlier practices if you can without giving names of nativities or astrologers etc since this is a public forum.

If two different divinatory modalities are concerned, the answer might be easier, because we are using different approaches even though there are gray zones even there or can be ...!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

I completley understand your perspective. You are right.
I get that too very often. Many people go to different astrologers for many reasons.
1) Lack of knowledge of previous astrologer
2) Lack of communication skill (It is major reason), properly done job was not communicated properly.
3) Some look for astrologers until they hear the things they 'want' to hear. They mostly land up with a phoney one as real one would not say what you want to hear.

My heart still compels me to do that even though there was not full disclosure or I was the fourth and certainly not the last consultant. People are really 'souls at different levels of maturity', some are too much troubled to understand my sensitivity. Some do not do full disclousre as they themselves are in state of denial or didnt want to influence the unbiased opinion of astrologer preventing such leads to him. We as souls do not hit all milestones uniformly so even very mature ones some times do it.
I am not an angel for sure, But for me really, I practice 'acceptance' through this one . As in the past I have been known to lack on the virtue of acceptance, so by doing so I say to God that ." Look, I am trying to imbibe acceptance of unacceptable."  
There is certainly an incentive for me too.
On Philosophical Note ,  It is another example of our committment to 'the Knowledge giver almighty' that we did not withhold help from anyone who needed it regardless of who deserved or who did not. If receiver does not value it, it is his Karma. If I receive a flak, some previous negative Karma of mine is washed off and paid back. Either way it is good. Thanks to God..

.
.

[Rohiniranjan]

Thanks for a very nice answer!

My thanks to all participants of this thread for their thoughtful views and opinions!

And thank God that this thread has not drifted <LOL>

Regards,

Rohiniranjan