A discussion by vijayan

[vijiyan]

Dear Rishi Rahul Ji, First of all thanks for defending the native and giving an example of your brother"s earnings.

I presented the topic of my cousin so seniors can give a perspective about the birth chart.

And i request other members to just concentrate on birth chart and nothing else.

Dear Rishi Ji, i am divulging some of the personal matters of the native.

Rishi Ji, father of the native was very ambitious. Despite some warning given by the other family members as the education of under graduation will be costly, he went head with his plans and sent the native.

The native always spoke less. So, it is difficult to figure out what is running in his mind. Anyways the father shelled out a lot of his money for the native , thinking some day the son will return the favor.

Basically fathers younger son also desired to study abroad . Again he also took some money for under graduation studies. The younger son was a below average student and wasted his fathers money by not able to complete his under graduation studies and doing some odd jobs. . So money dried up in fathers account. Later the father lost his job and returned to India from Dubai.

Meanwhile The native settled well in 2000 year. But he never cared to come to India.

Basically the parents were living in ordinary conditions , considering his father spent a large sum of money on his son. He came to India once and that too for official purpose. He met his parents and left for US. Then my grandmother who stays in US along with my uncle told this native that he should buy better home for their parents as they are living in ordinary haphazard conditions. Till then he had no feeling that whether his parents are living a good life or bad life. Only after grandmothers insistence he bought a new home for his  parents. One strong point of the native is that he is a great miser.

Recently his father died. His father was on ventilator support after he suffered brain stroke. The native was hell bent upon removing the ventilator support as doctors gave them very less chances of survival.
Why should he behave in pathetic manner in that situation.

Rishi Ji, please figure out from the situations i have given.

[vijiyan]

Dear Vijiyan,

As brought up in the last similar discussion, neither of us know how or why your family astrologer (presumably the same individual in both cases) saw or said but the predictions did come true. We will just be guessing anyways!

1995-1996 gives him mars-saturn, mars-merc, mars-ketu, mars-venus. Dasas may not be matching with others who use Lahiri, as well as sun might be showing up in cancer. In my case, in early leo. Sripati, equal, whole sign using the conventional cusp as mid-point is not shifting any placements which is one variable less to bother about

Mercury, mars and venus are obviously linked with 9th house, saturn indirectly by association with 9th lord. Mercury is pitrikaraka too, so overall the 9th house played a strong role. Since he went for undergraduate level at first (4th), again mars is significant. One can further utilize VRY and other factors, although other than mercury, Jupiter probably does not have a direct participation in timing, although he did remained close to planets that are placed natally in 9th (or related to that house) and landed in the 12th around November 1995. How often that gets seen in other charts with similar experiences is a matter of curiosity of course. Also notable is the fact that several of the planetary factors are pretty close to the ascending cuspal degree (sphuta) and so likely to manifest strongly, as they probably did. The padas of 4th and 12th fall in the 2nd house which is a fixed sign, and so the prolonged residence abroad is fortified. In the 8-pada scheme, rahu is atmakaraka and placed in the 9th house could be interpreted as a destiny pointer that he experienced by seemingly being forced into embracing that, due to the wishes of his father. Is his decision to continue to help his folks, but from a distance may seem a bit self-absorbed but there could be other things going on as well but who really knows! Shani can be quite self-absorbed, if not outright selfish (!) and so can be rahu when it comes to being able to detach, or come across as sceptical on superficial examination, which is all we can do given the nature of current discussion.

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

Dear Rohini Ranjan Ji, Thanks a lot for taking time to respond to the query. You have mentioned many a correct points and some of your points have given me new lessons to learn . Mars being the 4th lord in 9th house could have a triggered a settlement in foreign country . But it is indeed a puzzle for me  as to how my family astrologer  predicted such a thing. May be he had lot of intuition power.
Please read my above post for better understanding of the native.

[Certain]

That person should not earn money in the US in legal way, that for sure. 13 thousand dollar per month earning in the US by an Indian in the good way never possible, never. Should be a drug Mafia. .

All engineers and Doctors in USA earn way more than 13k/month and many of them are in USA.

[Certain]

Dear Rishi Rahul Ji, First of all thanks for defending the native and giving an example of your brother"s earnings.

I presented the topic of my cousin so seniors can give a perspective about the birth chart.

And i request other members to just concentrate on birth chart and nothing else.

Dear Rishi Ji, i am divulging some of the personal matters of the native.

Rishi Ji, father of the native was very ambitious. Despite some warning given by the other family members as the education of under graduation will be costly, he went head with his plans and sent the native.

The native always spoke less. So, it is difficult to figure out what is running in his mind. Anyways the father shelled out a lot of his money for the native , thinking some day the son will return the favor.

Basically fathers younger son also desired to study abroad . Again he also took some money for under graduation studies. The younger son was a below average student and wasted his fathers money by not able to complete his under graduation studies and doing some odd jobs. . So money dried up in fathers account. Later the father lost his job and returned to India from Dubai.

Meanwhile The native settled well in 2000 year. But he never cared to come to India.

Basically the parents were living in ordinary conditions , considering his father spent a large sum of money on his son. He came to India once and that too for official purpose. He met his parents and left for US. Then my grandmother who stays in US along with my uncle told this native that he should buy better home for their parents as they are living in ordinary haphazard conditions. Till then he had no feeling that whether his parents are living a good life or bad life. Only after grandmothers insistence he bought a new home for his  parents. One strong point of the native is that he is a great miser.

Recently his father died. His father was on ventilator support after he suffered brain stroke. The native was hell bent upon removing the ventilator support as doctors gave them very less chances of survival.
Why should he behave in pathetic manner in that situation.

Rishi Ji, please figure out from the situations i have given.

I feel that astrology is better learnt if we understand the difference in behaviour of people raised in different continents.
When we use Indian scale to measure someone's behaviour who is raised in US/west from the age of 15, you are using kg scale to measure atmospheric pressure.
That is where approach falters and will hence mislead in astrology.
None of the things you mentioned here sufficiently prove that person is cold hearted or does not care. One can easily align his behaviour with any one who is raised in west.
They do such things because these aspects of behaviour are considered normal here and not because they are cold and dry.
You are living in India , do you behave like some one raised in Phillipine, or Dubai or Mexico. No. We should not expect that person who left India or was never raised in Indian culture to behave like us.
They will have show behaviour pattern which is displayed by predominant people around them. And this cultural influence itself is responsible for his failings not his stars. As you mentioned when grand mother made him aware of his duty of home , he did that.
It is not uncommon for Physician's community to suggest to have people taken off ventilator. For a patient with slim chances it is a right decision. Not doing so just adds to the agony of patient. Doctors mostly label it a 'a slim chance' only when there is hardly a chance to revive. I myself will not like to live a life which works on life support. I am a physician and some patients are better off the ventilator. Hanging on to life which is not a life , is not always the best outcome for a brain dead person or those with terminal diseases.
In Indian culture, we like to have even old terminally ill patient survive as long as they can, even if it is too painful for patient. We do that out of our love for them. There is nothing wrong in that. In west, it gets called as selfishness, That for your own love and togetherness , you are asking to extend an extremely painful life of the patient. They will rather let them rest in peace with God than have them hang on this earth in miserable condition just because we want that emotionally.
.
.

[Rohiniranjan]

Thanks for your fairly open sharings, Vijiyan and I can only congratulate you on the courage it takes to bring to light such personal and obviously personally-painful (or at least discomforting) facts to share with essentially strangers! I have two further comments, if I may:

1) The story of your relative is disconcerting, even to strangers like us, and the chart is interesting as well, but my sense is that from a study point of view in a detached and somewhat 'clinical' sense, it is the chart of the father that would be even more interesting and educational!

2) This I write and share with no specific individual in mind and purely based on my observations and perceptions which may seem incorrect or even objectionable to some readers. Very early during my self-education in the field of astrology and divination, I became acutely aware (and wary) of how astrologers sometimes fall in love with their approaches, their focus of attention in a chart studied or analysed by them (in contrast with the observations by others). This tendency, if not curbed, leads to personal biases which are probably not good to remain unaware of. It brings up concrete walls and barriers that limit one from learning and exploring and expanding their vision and understanding. This tendency is seen even in other subjects, including science and applied science where the boundaries of interpretation are more streamlined, more rigid and evidence-based and so on and so forth. Unfortunately, astrology and particularly 'free-association' astrology (my term) can lead to problems. It is not bad in itself and perhaps improves the reach etc., but can also create more opportunities of going astray.

Sorry if I am sounding unctorial...

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[vijiyan]

Dear Rishi Ji, please delete this entire topic as some members are doing non astrological discussions. I Do not wish to continue this discussion. I specifically gave this native"s birth details to you and also Rohini Ranjan Ji to know about the birth chart techniques .

Their comments have not been made in good taste.

Please do the needful

Thank You.

[vijiyan]

Thanks for your fairly open sharings, Vijiyan and I can only congratulate you on the courage it takes to bring to light such personal and obviously personally-painful (or at least discomforting) facts to share with essentially strangers!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

Thanks for your comments Rohini Ranjan Ji.

[Rohiniranjan]

That person should not earn money in the US in legal way, that for sure. 13 thousand dollar per month earning in the US by an Indian in the good way never possible, never. Should be a drug Mafia. I watched a documentary made by US police department where they stated that. bought house worth 4 crores in the US --- LOL, you are speaking way out of range man, way out of range.

The native lost  1 year in the middle of his 4 year course of engineering due to lack of money to pay the fees.... ---- in that time he was frustrated and meat with a nigga ( American Negro ) who told him to deliver cocaine here to there because he is an Indian and US Police do not suspect him. boom money flow happen. I think his chart should reflect this.

Biltu,

The minimum cost of buying an average house in 'Atherton' USA is 3.5 million dollars. I visited my brother there last year, and he has two houses there.
A top investment banker he earns in milliions in all fairness.

A bosom friend of mine works for a well known company earns 11000 dollars per month in the right way in new jersey. I know him and his family since childhood very well.

Daily life for good earners there are very hectic, unlike in India.
And 4 crore Rs is less than 1 million dollars.


The above is some information of the salaries of America of people well known to me.
But we are going off topic if we continue this.

RishiRahul

That is very true and as Certain pointed out about professionals, it is not just doctors and engineers and pharmacists but if we look in private sectors (business, entrepreneurs, CEOs of banks etc) the salaries and bonuses can be astronomical!

Curiously, where I live there is something called a sunshine list. It lists the numbers (and names etc usually held in confidence) of those earning more than 100000 dollars per annum. It is arbitrarily chosen by the list-makers as the lower threshold for a variety of reasons, including what an average individual earns in the province or nation. Many school teachers and administrators, policemen, firefighters, certain senior cadres of public servants and many many other sectors seem to be included in that list. Mind you, this listing does not really go into the 'value for service' angle, but just the arbitrary cut-off number. 100k only represents a little over 8000 dollars per month before taxes and am just using it as an actual amount used by a list and perhaps much lower than the gentleman we are talking about!

The tendency is to then multiply these numbers with the exchange rate and the number mushrooms to something 50 or 60 times or more if European currencies are being viewed.

In all this, we often lose sight of the very real differences in the cost of living and housing and taxes etc prevailing in different countries and even more complexified (?) by the inflation rate etc.

Sometimes very impressive-sounding numbers are illusory, unless the actual worth and value (locally) is thrown into the mix and which has a disillusionary effect. Like tossing in a few drops of vinegar or lime juice into a glass of milk!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear Rishi Ji, please delete this entire topic as some members are doing non astrological discussions. I Do not wish to continue this discussion. I specifically gave this native"s birth details to you and also Rohini Ranjan Ji to know about the birth chart techniques .

Their comments have not been made in good taste.

Please do the needful

Thank You.

I thought that I did give a glimpse, albeit quick, about the horoscope and so did Rishi Rahul ji and possibly others too!

I realize that you are becoming uncomfortable with the discussions but I have always felt and stated that the side-line discussions are important too for astrologers! If we reduce astrological study to strictly technical (which I call cold and clinical!), we risk taking a very narrow approach which soon grows stale and even sour as ego steps in with the "My bat is better than your bat", or *my teacher's bat better than...", etc which has been more damaging to astrological forums generally! Nothing gets resolved and the same questions about KSY, guru chandala, this bhava vs that and scores and scores of such perplexing and persistently appearing and re-appearing queries!

How can we distance astrology from the subject (nativity) which is a living being and has complex lives and thoughts and so on if we do not include in our thinking THOSE pretty REAL factors, mystical and high spiritual perspectives aside. The world is MAYA but astrology is the tool our Rishis gave us to first understand the reality of MAYA and in doing so, there exists the potential of personal spiritual unfolding of the astrologer and in many nativities!

I realize that not all astrologers or nativities utilize that precious opportunity but many do do so! If not at the outset of their journey, later on!

Love and Light and Reality,

Rohiniranjan

[biltu]

I feel that astrology is better learnt if we understand the difference in behaviour of people raised in different continents.
When we use Indian scale to measure someone's behaviour who is raised in US/west from the age of 15, you are using kg scale to measure atmospheric pressure.
That is where approach falters and will hence mislead in astrology.
None of the things you mentioned here sufficiently prove that person is cold hearted or does not care. One can easily align his behaviour with any one who is raised in west.
They do such things because these aspects of behaviour are considered normal here and not because they are cold and dry.
You are living in India , do you behave like some one raised in Phillipine, or Dubai or Mexico. No. We should not expect that person who left India or was never raised in Indian culture to behave like us.
They will have show behaviour pattern which is displayed by predominant people around them. And this cultural influence itself is responsible for his failings not his stars. As you mentioned when grand mother made him aware of his duty of home , he did that.
It is not uncommon for Physician's community to suggest to have people taken off ventilator. For a patient with slim chances it is a right decision. Not doing so just adds to the agony of patient. Doctors mostly label it a 'a slim chance' only when there is hardly a chance to revive. I myself will not like to live a life which works on life support. I am a physician and some patients are better off the ventilator. Hanging on to life which is not a life , is not always the best outcome for a brain dead person or those with terminal diseases.
In Indian culture, we like to have even old terminally ill patient survive as long as they can, even if it is too painful for patient. We do that out of our love for them. There is nothing wrong in that. In west, it gets called as selfishness, That for your own love and togetherness , you are asking to extend an extremely painful life of the patient. They will rather let them rest in peace with God than have them hang on this earth in miserable condition just because we want that emotionally.
.
.

Really like your above post  :)

But ------

All engineers and Doctors in USA earn way more than 13k/month and many of them are in USA.

Do you have any idea how much the money value of $13k/month, and you wrote more then 13k/month earned by those All engineers and Doctors in USA.
According to the Annual Demographic Survey of 2005 based on 2004 Census data the mean income of men in the US roughly $18/hour, a 40 hour work week and no vacations and minimum wage level of $7.25 per hour. Standard working hours are around 40 to 44 hours per week. So if wages of $18 per hour then for 160 to 176 hours is $3168 per month income.

Top 10 Hourly Wage Equivalent Welfare States in U.S.

Hawaii $17.50
Alaska $15.48
Massachusetts $14.66
Connecticut $14.23
Washington, D.C. $13.99
New York $13.13
New Jersey $12.55
Rhode Island $12.55
California $11.59
Virginia $11.11

Washington is America's wealthier states, with a household income of $57,573 a year as of 2012. So a Month income of $4797.75.

[Certain]

I feel that astrology is better learnt if we understand the difference in behaviour of people raised in different continents.
When we use Indian scale to measure someone's behaviour who is raised in US/west from the age of 15, you are using kg scale to measure atmospheric pressure.
That is where approach falters and will hence mislead in astrology.
None of the things you mentioned here sufficiently prove that person is cold hearted or does not care. One can easily align his behaviour with any one who is raised in west.
They do such things because these aspects of behaviour are considered normal here and not because they are cold and dry.
You are living in India , do you behave like some one raised in Phillipine, or Dubai or Mexico. No. We should not expect that person who left India or was never raised in Indian culture to behave like us.
They will have show behaviour pattern which is displayed by predominant people around them. And this cultural influence itself is responsible for his failings not his stars. As you mentioned when grand mother made him aware of his duty of home , he did that.
It is not uncommon for Physician's community to suggest to have people taken off ventilator. For a patient with slim chances it is a right decision. Not doing so just adds to the agony of patient. Doctors mostly label it a 'a slim chance' only when there is hardly a chance to revive. I myself will not like to live a life which works on life support. I am a physician and some patients are better off the ventilator. Hanging on to life which is not a life , is not always the best outcome for a brain dead person or those with terminal diseases.
In Indian culture, we like to have even old terminally ill patient survive as long as they can, even if it is too painful for patient. We do that out of our love for them. There is nothing wrong in that. In west, it gets called as selfishness, That for your own love and togetherness , you are asking to extend an extremely painful life of the patient. They will rather let them rest in peace with God than have them hang on this earth in miserable condition just because we want that emotionally.
.
.

Really like your above post  :)

But ------

All engineers and Doctors in USA earn way more than 13k/month and many of them are in USA.

Do you have any idea how much the money value of $13k/month, and you wrote more then 13k/month earned by those All engineers and Doctors in USA.
According to the Annual Demographic Survey of 2005 based on 2004 Census data the mean income of men in the US roughly $18/hour, a 40 hour work week and no vacations and minimum wage level of $7.25 per hour. Standard working hours are around 40 to 44 hours per week. So if wages of $18 per hour then for 160 to 176 hours is $3168 per month income.

Top 10 Hourly Wage Equivalent Welfare States in U.S.

Hawaii $17.50
Alaska $15.48
Massachusetts $14.66
Connecticut $14.23
Washington, D.C. $13.99
New York $13.13
New Jersey $12.55
Rhode Island $12.55
California $11.59
Virginia $11.11

Washington is America's wealthier states, with a household income of $57,573 a year as of 2012. So a Month income of $4797.75.

Yes, I am very well aware of. You can also refer to what Mr Rishirahul has written. Docs or Engineers don't earn minimum wage here.
Check out here.
www.salary.com, select USA and serach for Physician pathologist, radiologist or any one you like or else try this straightaway..
http://www1.salary.com/MA/Boston/Physic ... alary.html
Minimum salary of a beginning pathologist after board exam is $150,000. 10 Years in and it is $250,000/annum.

.
.

[Certain]

Dear Rishi Ji, please delete this entire topic as some members are doing non astrological discussions. I Do not wish to continue this discussion. I specifically gave this native"s birth details to you and also Rohini Ranjan Ji to know about the birth chart techniques .

Their comments have not been made in good taste.

Please do the needful

Thank You.

I thought that I did give a glimpse, albeit quick, about the horoscope and so did Rishi Rahul ji and possibly others too!

I realize that you are becoming uncomfortable with the discussions but I have always felt and stated that the side-line discussions are important too for astrologers! If we reduce astrological study to strictly technical (which I call cold and clinical!), we risk taking a very narrow approach which soon grows stale and even sour as ego steps in with the "My bat is better than your bat", or *my teacher's bat better than...", etc which has been more damaging to astrological forums generally! Nothing gets resolved and the same questions about KSY, guru chandala, this bhava vs that and scores and scores of such perplexing and persistently appearing and re-appearing queries!

How can we distance astrology from the subject (nativity) which is a living being and has complex lives and thoughts and so on if we do not include in our thinking THOSE pretty REAL factors, mystical and high spiritual perspectives aside. The world is MAYA but astrology is the tool our Rishis gave us to first understand the reality of MAYA and in doing so, there exists the potential of personal spiritual unfolding of the astrologer and in many nativities!

I realize that not all astrologers or nativities utilize that precious opportunity but many do do so! If not at the outset of their journey, later on!

Love and Light and Reality,

Rohiniranjan

I completely agree with you that Astrology can never be read isolatedly from a normal human behaviour or its normal variants in different circumstances. It is our obligation and duty to understand all in right context. If we choose to avoid that , we do not  have right to  even read their horoscopes , least of judging them. It would be injustice to Astrology as well. Relevent non-technical discussion is of utmost importance.
.
.
.

[Certain]

Dear Rishi Ji, please delete this entire topic as some members are doing non astrological discussions. I Do not wish to continue this discussion. I specifically gave this native"s birth details to you and also Rohini Ranjan Ji to know about the birth chart techniques .

Their comments have not been made in good taste.

Please do the needful

Thank You.

It is your choice if you do not want to continue discussion. To label difference of opinion as a 'not in good taste' is not a great idea. It is a restrictive approach. Discussion has been very much relevent to the topic, it certainly doesn't deserve deletion.  
Whatever I wrote was not personally against you, I was introducing just a concept and a perspective to you.
A wise quotation is "Achhi shiksha kahi se bhi mile , le leni chahiye."
You decide some teachers for yourself, some teachers are decided by life for you.
I do not write very often on the forum. You have not liked the message , that is fine with me. But atleast do not forget it as there are no coincidences in life. You can trust me on this one.
If I was inspired to write that, life probably wanted it to pass through your eyes.
You may have a useful application of this concept in future if not today.
I checked the horoscope of native and did not find anything suggestive of  degree of the selfishness which was described here.
Good luck to you,Mr Vijayan.
.
.

[Rohiniranjan]

The gentleman in question has no reported problem though someone here does not approve with his lifestyle, though ousted from family at age 15!

Relatives who have access to Mystic-Jyotish-Line had been using it for voicing their points of view!

Has Jyotish become so devoid of real problems that now we have to focus on such issues about an allegedly selfish person who might actually not be someone like that, as described...?

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[RishiRahul]

Dear Rishi Rahul Ji, First of all thanks for defending the native and giving an example of your brother"s earnings.

I presented the topic of my cousin so seniors can give a perspective about the birth chart.

And i request other members to just concentrate on birth chart and nothing else.

Dear Rishi Ji, i am divulging some of the personal matters of the native.

Rishi Ji, father of the native was very ambitious. Despite some warning given by the other family members as the education of under graduation will be costly, he went head with his plans and sent the native.

The native always spoke less. So, it is difficult to figure out what is running in his mind. Anyways the father shelled out a lot of his money for the native , thinking some day the son will return the favor.

Basically fathers younger son also desired to study abroad . Again he also took some money for under graduation studies. The younger son was a below average student and wasted his fathers money by not able to complete his under graduation studies and doing some odd jobs. . So money dried up in fathers account. Later the father lost his job and returned to India from Dubai.

Meanwhile The native settled well in 2000 year. But he never cared to come to India.

Basically the parents were living in ordinary conditions , considering his father spent a large sum of money on his son. He came to India once and that too for official purpose. He met his parents and left for US. Then my grandmother who stays in US along with my uncle told this native that he should buy better home for their parents as they are living in ordinary haphazard conditions. Till then he had no feeling that whether his parents are living a good life or bad life. Only after grandmothers insistence he bought a new home for his  parents. One strong point of the native is that he is a great miser.

Recently his father died. His father was on ventilator support after he suffered brain stroke. The native was hell bent upon removing the ventilator support as doctors gave them very less chances of survival.
Why should he behave in pathetic manner in that situation.

Rishi Ji, please figure out from the situations i have given.

Vijayan

I was also wondering if the native had a sort of 'closed in' personality. It is due to Ketu in Al.

Chara pitrikarak being Saturn, afflicting the 9th. lord mercury gave him a difficult relation with the father; his father was loike 'saturn' to him; drove him hard, forced him towards independance, and will continue to influence him even after death.
Of copurse, the chara pitrikarak doesnt imply if the father was a good or bad person, but how the native views the father in this lifetime.

Realisations come in with age, as in later ages saturn + mercury moves to the 7th house afflicting lagna (self).

After 2009 Aug could have weakened the father's health, resulting in the eventuality, as I see a different mindset in the native after that.

My father was severely health hit in 2010, subsequently hospitalised in India (of course I knew that he was to die) as his childrens' charts showed afflicted 9th. and grief therefrom).
He was subsequently put on a ventilator, and the doctor in India said that his chances were slim, and if we wanted a 'soft' or a 'hard' treatment; we children & relatives were in a puzzle.

I wondered if it was worthwhile as he was suffering more and more when his time has come; We had to take the 'emotional' decision to continue the 'hard' treatment.

RishiRahul